On Warzone Scoring and Rewards

[ryukinku]

Wow you guys really don't get it over there in BW land. The PVP community for the most part is not happy with the changes you made to the credits and comms at the end of a match. And reducing it to one medal needed at the end of a match is like throwing a glass of water on a burning building. The bottom line is that I don't want to nor do I have the time to grind dailies out for credits. I have a limited amount of time to play due to life. I chose to play this game for the PVP and that is the only reason I play. I didn't get rich from PVP, but as stated before I stayed afloat doing it. As far as the comms go....I don't know what you were thinking but it clearly was the wrong thing. Perhaps keeping the comms the same as before and giving the winner a slight bonus? Otherwise you will just end up with a bunch of geared people destroying non geared and never will be geared people.

 

If I had as many people pissed off at me at my job as you have, I'd be lucky to still have a job. Also I think that if I did still have a job I would be working a hell of a lot harder to fix the screw up.

[Xanatharia]

Things I have seen that are flawed with new system.

 

If I enter into a losing battle I get absolutely nothing for my time in que or my attempt to help regain.

Coming from a low pop server teams seem unbalanced. Many times it has been 3-4 vs 8.

Have found it easier just to leave that wz and just reque since I am going to get nothing anyway when team is unbalanced and no chance of gaining anything.

You don't get near as much for trying your butt off but getting stuck with undergeared player, therefore making the undergeared players having an even harder time getting gear to even compete.

You have widened the gap and have given fresh 50's no incentive whatsoever to pvp, because they get faceraped and get nothing for their time or their effort.

I understand that people can now make gear , so then you have a bunch of noobs running around because they bought their gear instead of earning it like the rest of us.

I honestly did not see any real problems with the pvp system and rewards you had prior to 1.2

 

Like people always say, don't fix something that isn't broke

You need to rethink what you did or make pvp crossserver or merge low pop servers.

Or even base teams on a equiped gear level cap per team.

 

Ty, Cheeky

[Icysunx]

Whether they fix the rewards or not, does anyone actually enjoy grinding 4 warzones 24/7 just to gear up to be on an even playing field knowing that by the time ranked warzones release there will already be a new tier. Edited April 17, 2012 by Icysunx

[MrDrez]

According to your logic losing should give exactly the same rewards as winning.

 

Getting less for losing is not puishment, its simply loosing.

 

If people actually got com's/valor taken away after a loss it would be a punishment.

 

I didn't say at any point that losing should give you the same as winning.

 

Since the 1.2 patch has reduced what a losing team would normally get, it really kind of is like they got coms/valor taken away. If they had the exact same loss two weeks ago, they would have gotten more for it, right?

 

Let me make my point more simply: as of the 1.2 patch, there is NO incentive for a casual player to dip his/her toe into PvP. NONE. He or she is better off sticking to what they know, because if they jump into a Warzone, there's a very real chance they'll get smacked around for 10-15 minutes and then stare at a scoreboard showing them they got ZERO credit towards anything.

[Newsinz]

Hey folks,

 

There's been a lot of discussion about the changes to the Warzone rewards system in Game Update 1.2 and the type of play style that it encourages. I wanted to help out a bit and point out a major change not all players may have noticed and share some of our plans.

 

First of all, rest assured we are keeping a close watch on the results of our reward changes to Warzones in 1.2 and we will continue to pull constant metrics to make sure they are going in the right direction as players get used to the new rules.

 

To refresh everyone's memories, one of the most important aspects of the new changes is that your team's performance inside the Warzone has a direct impact on a portion of the rewards you are given at the end of the Warzone. Even if your team is losing, the closer you can make the game the better your rewards will be - so don't give up hope! Giving up and letting the other team 'win faster' is now the worst possible route you can take to rewards.

 

Secondly, one of the things we have already identified to fix is to reduce the minimum amount of medals a player must receive to gain any reward at all. Currently that value is three (3), and we are going to reduce that to only needing one (1) medal to gain rewards. This should make sure we cover that all important backfill player while still protecting against the freeloaders.

 

As we move forward, we will continue to meet and discuss other possible changes based on the feedback here on the Forums as well as the data coming in from the live servers. As always, we appreciate your comments and want to hear from you.

 

So Healers who spend their time healing and keeping people alive so that the person they are healing can get medals is ok... but healers are struggling to even get 3 medals during a game. We are always the first killed so we spend most of our time running back to the fight and dont get rewarded for it.

 

I mean you can leave it up to the players to reward them by MVP votes I have healed many games for 250k + and not gotten a single vote because they jump up to the person who medal farmed.

 

Nobody is saying make it easier they are saying next time you test you should let more then a handful of people transfer their level 50's over so you can get some REAL numbers not just a few. The PvP update is borked at the moment. To say otherwise is false.. the 100's of threads about the subject should be evidence enough Im not saying give us all what we want but there is an obvious problem and it should be addressed quickly.

Edited April 17, 2012 by Newsinz

[Dyngrin]

Any competitive game should REWARD the winners and NOT PENALIZE the losers. Where would pro sports be if the losing team/player wasn't paid?

 

Any active time spent in an MMO should be compensated in some way, and this includes time spent in warzones. At a minimum, this is usually exp and credits before level cap and more credits after level cap. So IMO, the warzone compensation and reward system should be as follows:

 

REWARD = SALARY (compensation for playing) + VICTORY REWARD (for winning only) + PERSONAL REWARD (for performance stats/medals)

 

Salary - Anyone in a warzone at its end would get a Salary of exp and credits (no exp but more credits if level 50). For all players, the Salary would be based on time spent in the warzone at its end, so most players would get the same Salary. But even a late joiner would get a small Salary and this would encourage late joining to replace players that leave/drop (who would get no Salary).

 

Victory Reward - All players on the winning team at a warzone's end would get a flat Victory Reward, regardless of the score (a blowout score does not necessarily mean exceptional or challenging play). The Victory Reward would include valor and comms and would be the same for all players on the winning team.

 

Personal Reward - All players with at least one medal at a warzone's end would get a Personal Reward. The Personal Reward would include valor and comms and would be based on the number of medals the player was awarded.

 

 

The above common sense approach ensures the following:

 

Any player who stays to the end of a warzone will at least get something for their time.

 

Any player who leaves before the end of a warzone will get nothing.

 

Players who perform well on the winning team will get the greatest rewards.

 

Players who perform well, even if on the losing team, will get good rewards.

 

 

It's good to hear BW is looking at their current design and hopefully they will make changes that reward the winners without penalizing the losers, and won't overemphasize the score. Also, a separate mechanic is needed to penalize AFK players (such as a deserter flag driven by in-warzone voting to boot team players) and should not be part of the reward system.

[MrDrez]

Any competitive game should REWARD the winners and NOT PENALIZE the losers. Where would pro sports be if the losing team/player wasn't paid?

 

Any active time spent in an MMO should be compensated in some way, and this includes time spent in warzones. At a minimum, this is usually exp and credits before level cap and more credits after level cap. So IMO, the warzone compensation and reward system should be as follows:

 

REWARD = SALARY (compensation for playing) + VICTORY REWARD (for winning only) + PERSONAL REWARD (for performance stats/medals)

 

Salary - Anyone in a warzone at its end would get a Salary of exp and credits (no exp but more credits if level 50). For all players, the Salary would be based on time spent in the warzone at its end, so most players would get the same Salary. But even a late joiner would get a small Salary and this would encourage late joining to replace players that leave/drop (who would get no Salary).

 

Victory Reward - All players on the winning team at a warzone's end would get a flat Victory Reward, regardless of the score (a blowout score does not necessarily mean exceptional or challenging play). The Victory Reward would include valor and comms and would be the same for all players on the winning team.

 

Personal Reward - All players with at least one medal at a warzone's end would get a Personal Reward. The Personal Reward would include valor and comms and would be based on the number of medals the player was awarded.

 

 

The above common sense approach ensures the following:

 

Any player who stays to the end of a warzone will at least get something for their time.

 

Any player who leaves before the end of a warzone will get nothing.

 

Players who perform well on the winning team will get the greatest rewards.

 

Players who perform well, even if on the losing team, will get good rewards.

 

 

It's good to hear BW is looking at their current design and hopefully they will make changes that reward the winners without penalizing the losers, and won't overemphasize the score. Also, a separate mechanic is needed to penalize AFK players (such as a deserter flag driven by in-warzone voting to boot team players) and should not be part of the reward system.

 

Well said. I agree whole-heartedly with all of this, and would love to play a game set up like this.

[LanceCorporalDan]

Getting less for losing is not puishment, its simply loosing.

 

If people actually got com's/valor taken away after a loss it would be a punishment.

 

we are getting them taken away, when compared to what pre-1.2 was. it wouldnt be so bad if it weren't for the fact we get next to nothing for loosing.

[hypershadowcat]

My god just put it back the way it was and put a 1-2 medal min to get rewards,

[criminalheretic]

I don't feel like lowering the medal requirement from 3-1 is addressing the issue. While I can't speak for everybody, I don't think the ability to earn medals is the issue. If you can't earn 3 medals, you proabably don't deserve a reward at all. And if you get thrown into a losing match, with 1 minute left... Well there is only one minute left...

 

The real issue is when you do everything within YOUR power to do the right thing, and get no rewards for it.

 

The 'right thing' here being toughing out a losing match.

 

Like I did mutliple times yesterday with my lvl 38 Marauder Alt.

 

Top 3 in damage every time, leader in damage in most of them. Minimum 8 medals each match. All for 10-40 comms (40 comms being the best in a close losing match) normal xp (which doesn't do much good if we can't afford the 14-40k it takes to level up) and NO credits in any match except one, where I got 597.

 

The problem isn't that it is too hard to win medals. It's that winning them is worthless unless your team wins. Which you have have only 12% responsiblity for.

[Heideggar]

Actually winners get no credits now either...

 

And even worse, you can win and get 0 for everything.

[SinnedQWERTY]

Hey folks, ... more promises, more metrics, bleh bleh

 

The things you mention, have you people even been keeping an eye on all the live servers... even before 1.2 I could stand around for 10 mins at a time waiting for pvp popups. Now the Q's are even getting longer at times, because less people are playing it seems. (Wonder why...)

 

Now I get almost nothing if I jump into a match as a replacement in a losing team, now I almost get nothing if I jump in to another 10min game vs a premade as a casual pugger (healer, added bonus here, Ill be dead most of the time). Same goes if I finally get a fresh game with a herpderp group of players who never heard of objectives and run around chasing tanks with 2 healers while the rest caps/scores...

 

I used to stick out even games that where going nowhere, slow or fast. I would atleast get rewarded for my time and somewhat for my personal effort if I performed well... not any more..

 

You actually turned me into a leaver BW... actually, I stopped leaving as I stopped playing PvP/Wz's. Hope you got some killer PVE stuff coming up fast, because I'm also kinda done lvling alt #X...

 

The one medal change is.. lackluster (understatement).. Seriously, hotfix/patch the rewards back pre 1.2 or something. Remember BW, you also did change the bloody prices on everything ... get of your arses and do something already.

Edited April 17, 2012 by SinnedQWERTY

[Cheeseblaster]

The problem isn't that it is too hard to win medals. It's that winning them is worthless unless your team wins. Which you have have only 12% responsiblity for.

 

Bingo....

 

This is beginning to border on ridiculous BW, another band-aid won't fix it. Like I said earlier, revert back to pre-1.2 till you are ready tp roll out the entire PVP change which includes cross que and rateds.

 

We have more people than I remember since launch on my server, yet long que times for WZ's that start with 3 or 4 players. That should tell you something.

Edited April 17, 2012 by Cheeseblaster

[Evan_Beck]

Personally I haven't had too much of a problem with PvP except for the fact the Republic never have enough players and we always lose. Also, starting out as a newbie I was terrible(I'm 50 now so it's all good) and I brought my team down. I think you should try to make it so like lvl 10-29 play together and lvl 30-50 play together. The only problem is the lack of pvp players to do that. Plus I'm pretty sure the Ranked Warzone is an attempt at making it fair teams?

[RBWhite]

Whats this about

[Angelfeeties]

This is a perfect example of why the current rewards system is utterly broken.

 

Novare Coast. Queued with a buddy. Basically battled for South the entire time, with a quick rush to West to see if we could ninja it. Our team was just getting dominated.

 

I'm a Marauder, so we have some difficulty in obtaining medals in a slaughter-fest. I am also one of the better burst AC's, so I rarely sit and defend. Here was what i was rewarded with after my warzone.

 

http://i.imgur.com/n9rQH.jpg

 

Thanks Bioware. I'd really like that 15 minutes of my life back (queue time, start time, play time, zoning time).

[theunwarshed]

i think the main problem is that the rewards system that they have in place was designed with the expectation that rated wz would be in the game at the same time, thus separating the premades/well geared from the fresh 50s and casuals.

 

also, i believe their pts shortcomings didn't accurately reflect live server behaviors. obviously, people are leaving matches more frequently after the patch than they were before. perhaps pvpers on pts just wanted to fight and didnt care about rewards, so it wasn't that big of an issue, etc.

[MoMeter]

This is a perfect example of why the current rewards system is utterly broken.

 

Novare Coast. Queued with a buddy. Basically battled for South the entire time, with a quick rush to West to see if we could ninja it. Our team was just getting dominated.

 

I'm a Marauder, so we have some difficulty in obtaining medals in a slaughter-fest. I am also one of the better burst AC's, so I rarely sit and defend. Here was what i was rewarded with after my warzone.

 

http://i.imgur.com/n9rQH.jpg

 

Thanks Bioware. I'd really like that 15 minutes of my life back (queue time, start time, play time, zoning time).

 

There is a minimum requirement of 3 medals to gain any rewards. You only got 2 medals, therefore no rewards.

 

Furthermore, 3 medals isn't much. The maximum is 8. In this regard, Bioware doesn't owe you anything just because you don't read the rules or do very well in PvP.

[Heideggar]

There is a minimum requirement of 3 medals to gain any rewards. You only got 2 medals, therefore no rewards.

 

Furthermore, 3 medals isn't much. The maximum is 8. In this regard, Bioware doesn't owe you anything just because you don't read the rules or do very well in PvP.

 

There are several scenarios where, by doing things to actually win, you may not get many, if any, medals. This is especially true for those who join in after a match has begun.

 

I've personally watched half our team camp their entire team at their goal line in Huttball. I had to stop at their goal line and get 3 medals before I scored again, otherwise I would have gotten NOTHING for a win AGAIN. There were people on the opposing team afterwards complaining they got no rewards. They were all fighting. We just had a real good setup and locked 'em back there. It's not their fault. They shouldn't get nothing for their time.

[KrackenOne]

This still does not cover the nerfed XP and Credit gain from WZs. I liked being able to level, craft, send mail and purchase class abilities from just PvP activities. I was wishing we could unlock companions from PvP too. This patches forces me to "quest" to do basic functions like getting class abilities, send mail, pull mods out ect.

 

I will not pay money to drive 5 minutes for 30 seconds of combat for hours on end in a game. It was fine when I could PvP and level and earn credits. I still do not get the reason for the nerf in the payouts, it's makes as much sense as disabling the WZ vendors......

[primori]

Why does every game always need to make things easier for people who are bad in pvp.

 

 

You made shared xp, comms and everything. i play alone alot this means i end up in fail pug groups alot!!!

Before 1.2 even if i lost i got between 80 and 90 commendations because i worked my *** off.

Now i get 35 to 45 on a loss if i work my *** off.

 

Why do i want to share my xp with people who aint worth it in the first place? |Why do i have to suffer for other peoples lack of skill or tactic? You think getting noobs into gear will make them better? it creates what so many mmos created before you.

 

People with end gear who cant do anything right

 

In the perfect situation let me decide myself if i can share or not.

I left games because of this model before because its about team effort to get a win not about how you can leech of the rest who are pulling their weight! and thats exactly what every f***ing fail imp is doing on the fatman server who is not in a premade!

i refuse to gear up other people who arent worth it!

 

Now i find myself farming HMs which i find fun for about a week until you run them on automatic pilot.

[Talsalus]

This is a perfect example of why the current rewards system is utterly broken.

 

Novare Coast. Queued with a buddy. Basically battled for South the entire time, with a quick rush to West to see if we could ninja it. Our team was just getting dominated.

 

I'm a Marauder, so we have some difficulty in obtaining medals in a slaughter-fest. I am also one of the better burst AC's, so I rarely sit and defend. Here was what i was rewarded with after my warzone.

 

http://i.imgur.com/n9rQH.jpg

 

Thanks Bioware. I'd really like that 15 minutes of my life back (queue time, start time, play time, zoning time).

 

Well if your excuse is because you are constantly attacking...... You better be sure u get ur 75k damage medal.. 10 kill medal and.. attacker points medal.

 

Not hard to get, just gotta fight in the correct areas.

[KadanAlistar]

/slap -Daniel Erickson! Thank you sir, thanks to you and 1.2, I have had 10 of my guildies unsub! And now with the way warzones are setup 5 more have unsubbed! You my friend deserve a reward, for murdering this game! What were you thinking? Edited April 17, 2012 by paulmillsaps

[xxCarnage]

Release 8man ques and there will be alot less complaining. no more fail 5v8s and end of game ques. DO IT. realease it!!! now, now, now... do it.

[CuFuS]

I'm new the pvp ( warzones ) and i gave it a shot and played for hours... didn't win once ( republic ) .. its hard to win at these warzones when you are outnumbered 3 to 1.. or trying to take on a lvl 49 when you are 15... i know it pumps your gear to thier lvl but you cant even wear some gear till your above 20 ( aka relics and implants ).. and then all the skills that lvl 40+ has makes it such a fight even to survive ( no chance to win )...

 

Maybe i'm just complaining but it just seems way to lopsided to me...

 

maybe cut the warzones in half like ( 10-29 ) ( 30 -50 ) or something of the like... at least then it wont seem so huge