** Ultimate solution that will make everyone happy **

[Zaodon]

I think I got it. Please read the whole thing.

 

1.2 does not reward you *at all* if you get less than 3 medals, and it was clearly stated by Bioware that this was put in to DIRECTLY combat AFKers getting rewards on the backs of active players.

 

So, lets define the problem as:

- We need to prevent AFKers from being rewarded unfairly, but still reward active players fairly.

 

Rather than put an arbitrary 3 medal limit as the cutoff mechanism, we can make a simple change, which still solves the main problem, but completely fixes the problem of legitimate players who get no rewards for fighting hard, but just getting owned and losing and not getting 3 medals. (including late joiners!)

 

Here is the solution:

 

- Medals already have categories. i.e. Defensive medals, damage medals, etc.

- right now, the game treats all medals as equal. i.e. 3 defensive medals is the same as 3 damage medals is the same as 3 healing medals. 3 = 3 = 3.

- instead, change the system so that some medals *count more* towards the "medal/reward minimum" than other medals.

- never make defensive/healing medals count this way, only offensive medals. (this doesn't screw healers, I'll show you why in a second).

- categorize all offensive medals to count double than defensive medals.

- categorize all offensive OBJECTIVE-based medals to count triple.

 

Example (only to illustrate my idea):

- all defensive medals (personal medals or objective-based) count as 1. Defender, Healing, Protection, etc.

- all offensive personal medals (damage, kills, etc) count as 2 each.

- all offensive objective medals (carry huttball, score with huttball, capture node, plant bomb, etc.) count as 3 each.

 

Note: I am not saying you get 2 or 3 MEDALS. You still just get 1, its just that they COUNT as 2 or 3 *only for the purpose of determining if you qualify for full rewards or not*.

 

So, instead of saying "You need 3 medals to get anything, and 8 medals for full rewards", its now "You need 3 medal-equivalents to get anything, and 8 medal-equivalents for full rewards".

 

You can get minimum rewards with:

- 3 medals of any kind

- 1 Personal offensive medal and 1 medal of any kind

- 1 personal objective-based medal.

 

You can get full rewards with:

- 8 medals of any kind

- 4 personal offensive medals

- 2 personal objective-based offensive medals and 1 personal offensive medal.

 

Why key off "offensive" medals? Obviously, because AFK people can get defensive medals while AFK, but there is no way they can get offensive medals while AFK/not trying/standing around.

 

Now, I said this won't screw healers. Why? For two reasons:

1. Even healers can get objective-based medals, like carrying a huttball, diffusing a bomb, etc.

2. Extend the "healers get kill credits for healing an ally who kills someone" to "healers get objective-based credits for healing an ally who is rewarded an objective-based medal."

 

This means that not only will healers get "kill" medals for healing, but now they will also get "objective" medals for healing in relation to objectives.

 

Discuss.

[UnderatedNoob]

It could work. I still get 3 medals in about 30 seconds 9 out of 10 times, if I joined a game late and had to work quickly.

 

When not worrying about medals, I can still get 3 within a couple minutes every time. Usually ending the game with 8-12 medals.

 

I did 10 warzones so far. I went 6 wins, 4 losses.

My worst loss still netted me 43 comms. Best loss 62.

Worst win 65 comms. Best win 103.

 

 

 

Long story short: I think your trying to fix something that works fine. People need to stop being bad and getting <2 medals.

Edited April 13, 2012 by UnderatedNoob

[Kaze-Yama]

This won't work because it still screws over people playing tank or just dps playing defense in general.

 

Say you are on Novare or Alderaan and you have 1 cap, the enemy has 1 and the third is contested. You are going to need atleast 2 or 3 players to stay and defend the one point you already possess to make sure it isn't ninja capped while the others go on offense to take the contested point.

 

In this situation the 2 or 3 people defending may not actually be fighting as much or at all but they are still contributing equally as the attacking players. If you are an unlucky DPS who is stuck guarding an objective good luck ever receiving any rewards.

 

All it would encourage is for people to just attack all the time and ruin any strategy of actually defending a point.

[Zaodon]

It could work. But I still get 3 medals in about 30 seconds 9 out of 10 times if I joined a game late and had to work quickly.

 

When not worrying about medals, I can still get 3 within a couple minutes every time. Usually ending the game with 8-12 medals.

 

No offense, but... I don't care about YOU. I am fixing a problem here that OTHER people are experiencing. Its not valid to say "there is no problem because I don't hit the problem." That is like a rich person saying "there is no poverty because I am rich."

 

Thanks for understanding.

[dirtyboxer]

No...

[UnderatedNoob]

No offense, but... I don't care about YOU. I am fixing a problem here that OTHER people are experiencing. Its not valid to say "there is no problem because I don't hit the problem." That is like a rich person saying "there is no poverty because I am rich."

 

Thanks for understanding.

 

Obviously I can only go off of my experiences, and granted I've only played 10 games. Sometimes the system isn't the problem, but the people are the problem.

 

I could easily just say I don't care about YOU. It's the OTHER people that think it's fine that should get what they want.

 

It is valid to say, "There is no problem, YOU are the problem."

Edited April 13, 2012 by UnderatedNoob

[Zaodon]

This won't work because it still screws over people playing tank or just dps playing defense in general.

 

Say you are on Novare or Alderaan and you have 1 cap, the enemy has 1 and the third is contested. You are going to need atleast 2 or 3 players to stay and defend the one point you already possess to make sure it isn't ninja capped while the others go on offense to take the contested point.

 

In this situation the 2 or 3 people defending may not actually be fighting as much or at all but they are still contributing equally as the attacking players. If you are an unlucky DPS who is stuck guarding an objective good luck ever receiving any rewards.

 

All it would encourage is for people to just attack all the time and ruin any strategy of actually defending a point.

 

Not true!!!!

 

Those people will easily get 3 defender medals which qualifies them!

 

I am not talking about your case. I am talking about getting FARMED at the SPAWN POINT when you cannot get defender medals. At least then, your few "offensive" medals you get while trying to fight out of your spawn count *double*.

Edited April 13, 2012 by Zaodon

[dirtyboxer]

it could work. But i still get 3 medals in about 30 seconds 9 out of 10 times if i joined a game late and had to work quickly.

 

When not worrying about medals, i can still get 3 within a couple minutes every time. Usually ending the game with 8-12 medals.

 

I did 10 warzones so far. I went 6 wins, 4 losses.

My worst loss still netted me 43 comms. Best loss 62.

Worst win 65 comms. Best win 103.

 

 

 

long story short. I think your trying to fix something that works fine. People need to stop being bad and getting <2 medals.

 

qft..

[Zaodon]

Obviously I can only go off of my experiences, and granted I've only played 10 games. Sometimes the system isn't the problem, but the people are the problem.

 

I could easily just say I don't care about YOU. It's the OTHER people that think it's fine that should get what they want.

 

It is valid to say, "There is no problem, YOU are the problem."

 

This is a strawman argument, sorry.

 

There are screenshots and hundreds of posts on this forum of people in 4v8s or just lopsided matches getting under 3 medals while fighting the entire time trying hard. These people are getting screwed, its a fact, and its not their fault. Its a systemic flaw. One that my idea fixes.

[Riiquiem]

Really don't get the whining about the new medal system....

 

It's impossible not to get at least 3 medals Oo

 

500 attack/defense + 2,5 crit are ALWAYS possible, even when losing very hard.

[Zaodon]

It's impossible not to get at least 3 medals

 

This is provably false.

[UnderatedNoob]

This is a strawman argument, sorry.

 

There are screenshots and hundreds of posts on this forum of people in 4v8s or just lopsided matches getting under 3 medals while fighting the entire time trying hard. These people are getting screwed, its a fact, and its not their fault. Its a systemic flaw. One that my idea fixes.

 

Your argument that I am coming at you with a strawman argument, is a strawman argument in itself.

 

There are just as many people on these forums that agree with me, as agree with you. The difference is, people come to the forums to complain, so you get the advantage in the complainer department.

 

It's not those people's faults that their team quit. The problem is people quit with no punishment. Add consequences to quitting and it solves your problem as well.

 

We can just Agree to Disagree.

 

Edit: In a 4 v 8, I can still get 3 medals 60% of the time, every time.

Edited April 13, 2012 by UnderatedNoob

[HHGofAntioch]

The only problem I see would be in games like Alderaan (haven't gotten a chance to play the new one yet, but I understand it's fairly similar). Say none of my team bothers to go left even after I or someone else posts up asking for two left, rest right or center.

 

It's an objective match, not a K/D ratio match. I go left, even though I'm usually more valuable as a player wherever the fight's going on. I'm not a great player by any means, but all it takes is pinpointing whoever's trying to get the objective and being enough of a PITA to serve as a distraction for the better players to swoop in. Say I get stuck at left though, and they never come to attack.

 

I'm doing my job, watching for attackers (have 'stealth incoming') already typed into ops chat and ready for an enter. I won't get very many medals if no one attacks, but that spot will be defended adequately. I'll just be very, very bored and usually facepalming at the rest of my team's tactics (don't get a chance to play with premades very often).

 

I do like the general idea you're going for - but it would nail alot of players stuck in defense. And honestly, there's only been a handful of matches out of the hundreds I've played where the enemy has continually left a node alone. That fixes AFKers right there.

 

From playing last night on a pve server, our biggest issue is going to be people quitting. We had one guy proclaim that the game was over right at the front because they got two nodes and we had one. The problem, in his case, was that he didn't quit - he just refused to do anything else. It of course didn't help that we were playing Republic and were outmanned 6-8. Then it was 5-8. Then we had a continuous exchange of people coming in and out, but we never got back up to 6. He ended up going afk on left node (without telling anyone) - I left a healer buddy with him and took off to center.Two of us pulled enough of them off center to think center was under threat, and someone ended up taking right. It was too late by that point. Because he'd gone afk, an enemy killed the healer and took left.

 

We ended the match with only three players. What I didn't understand is why the match didn't end early.

[Riiquiem]

This is provably false.

 

Then you must be the worst player ever... seriously.

When you are not skilled enough to even get at least 3 meds you shouldn't be playing pvp at all.

[Zaodon]

Your argument that I am coming at you with a strawman argument, is a strawman argument in itself.

 

There are just as many people on these forums that agree with me, as agree with you. The difference is, people come to the forums to complain, so you get the advantage in the complainer department.

 

We can just Agree to Disagree.

 

Sorry, this isn't a matter of opinion. Its a provable fact that people who try as hard as they can to play a match properly (not AFKing at all), are getting NO REWARDS AT ALL (straight 0s) for that effort. This is a flaw. It is undeniable, and is systemic. Your opinion that "its fine" is irrelevant to the facts.

[me_unknown]

i also don't see any problems here. even being outnumbered it is damn easy to get 3 medals. at least if you not give up just idling somewhere around.

[UnderatedNoob]

Sorry, this isn't a matter of opinion. Its a provable fact that people who try as hard as they can to play a match properly (not AFKing at all), are getting NO REWARDS AT ALL (straight 0s) for that effort. This is a flaw. It is undeniable, and is systemic. Your opinion that "its fine" is irrelevant to the facts.

 

I argue the entire point of thinking people deserve rewards for merely trying. How about don't get blown out 600-0. If you are that bad, you shouldn't get anything.

 

Again, if it's a 4v8, obviously it's not their fault. They should still be able to get 3 medals though pretty easily, even being outnumbered.

 

But the problem is that the people quit. Add consequences to quitters, and your problem is solved.

Edited April 13, 2012 by UnderatedNoob

[dotred]

Here's an fool proof plan of getting at least 2 medals in the first few seconds of any match as tanksin.

 

> Find Healer or Squishy DPS > Guard > Run along side into the fray > Mass Mind Control

 

Congratulations, you just got 2 protection medals in less than 10 seconds flat.

 

It's going to be a real challenge to get that third! O boy, especially with the new ways to get medals (i.e ball carrying, killing ball carriers, objectives etc.), how will you ever get that third before end game timer runs out?

Edited April 13, 2012 by dotred

[Zaodon]

I do like the general idea you're going for - but it would nail alot of players stuck in defense.

 

You seem confused.

 

No where in my post did I ever suggest removing defense medals.

 

Today: defend the whole time, get defense medals. (likely more than 3)

My idea: defend the whole time, get defense medals. (likely more than 3)

 

You don't get any less.

 

In fact, if you get 1 offensive medal for taking that turret to start off with, it would count as *3* with my idea instead of the 1 you get today.

[Zaodon]

I argue the entire point of thinking people deserve rewards for merely trying.

 

And that is where you fail. Of course people get rewards in a video game for playing the video game. Its called "progression".

 

That is why opinions on this issue are useless. They don't matter.

[Christonya]

Note: I am not saying you get 2 or 3 MEDALS. You still just get 1, its just that they COUNT as 2 or 3 *only for the purpose of determining if you qualify for full rewards or not*.

 

Stopped reading there. No.

 

At first I was thinking.. more then one medal for certain things? He actually might be on to some thing. And the way you had it set, a AFKer that comes in and basicly takes damage and heals... isnt going to get pasted the marker, therfore gets nothing. But im less concerned about afkers, and more concerned about the fact that if you lose a WZ atm, you get no bonus medals, so for newer players they cant actually get the original medals they cant even get the minimum. But say a brand new 50 healer, heals some one who kills another, they get 2 medals for the kill, thus allowing them to earn at least more then 6 medals, so they dont fall far behind in the grind process.

[UnderatedNoob]

And that is where you fail. Of course people get rewards in a video game for playing the video game. Its called "progression".

 

That is why opinions on this issue are useless. They don't matter.

 

If you lose an 8v8 on alderaan 600-0. You are bad. And in my opinion, should not be rewarded.

 

Even if you have a full team in recruit gear vs. full war hero. You should be able to hold a turret with 8.

 

Lose 300-0, and take your 30 or 40 comms.

 

Stop trying to pass your opinion as Fact, and discount my opinion as Wrong.

Edited April 13, 2012 by UnderatedNoob

[Zaodon]

Stopped reading there. No.

 

At first I was thinking.. more then one medal for certain things? He actually might be on to some thing. And the way you had it set, a AFKer that comes in and basicly takes damage and heals... isnt going to get pasted the marker, therfore gets nothing. But im less concerned about afkers, and more concerned about the fact that if you lose a WZ atm, you get no bonus medals, so for newer players they cant actually get the original medals they cant even get the minimum. But say a brand new 50 healer, heals some one who kills another, they get 2 medals for the kill, thus allowing them to earn at least more then 6 medals, so they dont fall far behind in the grind process.

 

Maybe you aren't understanding the idea. I'll use your example:

 

Fresh 50 healer enters. Its 6 v 8 (healer is on the 6 side). The players all stick it out (no quitters). They do poorly. Here is the difference:

 

Current:

- healer heals 2 people who get kills. Healer gets 2 medals. Gets no rewards at end.

 

My idea:

- healer heals 2 people who get kills. Healer gets 2 personal offensive medals. These count as "4" medals at the end, meaning they pass the "3 medal minimum", and get rewards (valor, comms, credits).

Edited April 13, 2012 by Zaodon

[Zaodon]

If you lose an 8v8 on alderaan 600-0. You are bad. And in my opinion, should not be rewarded.

 

Again, that is why you fail and why opinions are not relevant to the problem. The above quote from you is wrong and needs to be fixed. 600-0 blowout means nothing. Its just a score. What's more important is did you do well enough to get some rewards out of it or not. That has nothing to do with score, it has to do with medals. The penalties in 1.2 were stated clearly by Bioware to combat AFKers, not poor performance.

[UnderatedNoob]

Again, that is why you fail and why opinions are not relevant to the problem. The above quote from you is wrong and needs to be fixed. 600-0 blowout means nothing. Its just a score. What's more important is did you do well enough to get some rewards out of it or not. That has nothing to do with score, it has to do with medals. The penalties in 1.2 were stated clearly by Bioware to combat AFKers, not poor performance.

 

Were getting off subject. Agree to disagree on that point. It's my opinion, and I stand by it.

 

That being said... Every single one of your examples talks about 4v8 or 6v8, and how hard it is to get 3 medals.

 

1. I see the problem is being no consequences for people quitting or not accepting that queue. All your examples stem from people not being in warzones... That's what you need to address.

 

2. By no means is it hard to get 3 medals. It just isn't. You can't argue that. It's very easy. Even as a healer, it is very easy to get 3 medals fairly quickly. I agree being outnumbered vastly can make it much harder, but that goes back to number 1.

Edited April 13, 2012 by UnderatedNoob