AkilZodiac Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Very good read Taugrim, ty. ps. GW2 and Tera still won't replace the fun factor in SWTOR, this game is still evolving atm. It takes time to work kinks out in mmo's, Warcraft was not finely tuned it's first year, and even after TBC. Apples to Oranges man, but I agree on mostly what you have said far as 1.2 is concerned at this very moment. Have you even seen what GW2 brings to the table? It knocks TOR out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtnugget Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Good post. My main problem with 1.2 is that PvP rewards took a decent hit. I wish they would put comms/match back to 1.15 levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lacedemon Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Good read that, while I don't always agree with the stuff that Taugrim writes about I do really enjoy his streams and have really enjoyed the discussions on his Livesteam. I agree that big sweeping class changes all on one go is not the way to do this. SWTOR's class balances was very good in 1.1.5 and if Bioware wanted to make big classes changes as they did the way to do it is 1 class at a time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lectotrans Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 the problem is that these changes went to live with little to no testing. PTS is a joke, and bioware clearly doesnt have a proper system for internally testing their content. when a patch goes to live, most of the quirks should be worked out already. if you look at the original 1.2 PTS notes, and the notes they put out yesterday, there are hardly any differences. there should have been a ton, as 1.2 PTS was FAR from perfect. this is not how a big name gaming company develops a game. i don't know who is in charge of things at bioware for swtor, but they are doing an awful job who's fault is that though. certainly not bioware's. they can't force people to play on test. perhaps some of the people complaining should have. instead they whine about how character copy isn't instituted yet. i play on test roughly half the time. usually it has the population of a standard server. so to say "little to no" testing went on is a bit disingenuous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mavic Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 who's fault is that though. certainly not bioware's. they can't force people to play on test. perhaps some of the people complaining should have. instead they whine about how character copy isn't instituted yet. i play on test roughly half the time. usually it has the population of a standard server. so to say "little to no" testing went on is a bit disingenuous. It's Bioware's fault that they did not provide a function to copy characters to the PTS. Who the hell wants to level up to see how they will be effected at 50? I watch DBA's transfer much larger databases on a daily basis. Having people be able to do this on their PTS should have been a priority. At this point I think we could easily say that a lot of the money put in to cutscenes and voice acting would have been better spent elsewhere. In the end it's like Bioware didn't really want to build an MMO. And they are clearly fumbling the ball with the lobby game they have built. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee-Jay Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) I like Taugrim, but him posting offsite means BW will probably not see it. His post didn't highlight anything that isn't already covered on the forums anyway. I like that Taugrim at least made some positive comments since not everything in 1.2 is terrible. Well the thing about these forums is that Bioware seems to ignore complaints about PvP imbalances deliberately. I mean I can understand not giving weight to each single QQ post. But if you have multiple 50+ page discussions lasting multiple days about how Shadow/Assassins tanks are too good, don't you think there might be some merit to those complaints? I agree that isolated QQ should be ignored. But constant QQ normally does hint that something is out of whack. Often it's not directly what the players are complaining about (players QQ about symptoms, not causes) but intelligent feedback can often point to the cause. Patch 1.2 balance changes seems to be largely based on the personal playing experience of their 3 person-PvP designer team and their personal interpretation of warzone statistics rather than actual player feedback. Edited April 13, 2012 by Dee-Jay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Assassin Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 "Since November and up to 1.2, I have stated that SWTOR had the best class balance of the major MMORPGs. Of course, the balance was not perfect, but I thought BioWare was taking the wise approach from 1.0->1.1.5 of incrementally making class changes to improve balance. However, in 1.2 BioWare decided to make multiple, significant changes to 7 of the 8 Advanced Classes. In my gaming experience, so many class changes at once has rarely produced a positive overall outcome (with the exception of WoW’s Cataclysm expansion, which streamlined talent trees and added new class mechanics). In 1.1.5, here is what I thought was overpowered in PVP and needed to be looked at in future patches: •31-pt Shadow / Assassin tanks had it all: high survivability (Resilience, Deflection, plus self-healing), high mobility, very good damage, good debuffs, and Guard •Sentinels / Marauders had too much on-demand survivability and the best group buffs in the game •The friendly pull and sprint for Sages / Sorcs gave them a significant tactical advantage in group PVP, especially compared to the other 2 healing ACs •Assault Spec Vanguards / Pyrotech Powertechs had too much burst capability due to Ionic Accelerator / Particle Prototype Cylinder proc’ing multiple times in a short window •Scrapper Scoundrels / Concealment Operatives could easily gib people in smaller-scale fights (although they faced the same issue that other Rogue classes have faced in longer-scale combat) •Commando / Bounty Hunter healers were too mana efficient Of the above issues, the latter 3 were changed in 1.2 but the first 3 were not. Sentinel / Marauder was buffed and Shadow / Assassin tanks were untouched. Simply put, the class balance in 1.2 is the worst I’ve seen since the game was launched, and I no longer believe SWTOR’s class balance is positively differentiated from other games on the market." sums it up, perfectly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crawelc Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Sentenal/Marauder not buffed. That guy is a fool in some unfortuante mothers basement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audenlol Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Another marauder whine by someone who does not play a marauder. New and original. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendicus Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Today I learned half the people who play marauder on these forums just. aren't. that. good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNinjaboy Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 "The Ugly Class balance is heading in the wrong direction" This couldn't be more true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saephir Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Agree 110% Bioware please re-fix your patch, too many changes without enough testing (PTS player copy high priority). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McGarnagle Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Sentenal/Marauder not buffed. That guy is a fool in some unfortuante mothers basement. Do you always talk about yourself in the 3rd person? BTW...sentinal/marauder did get a buff. Not sure what you have been reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SliggXx Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Sentenal/Marauder not buffed. That guy is a fool in some unfortuante mothers basement. Another marauder whine by someone who does not play a marauder. New and original. It is interesting how certain classes seem to attract certain kinds of individuals. Suffice it to say that Taugrim has a history of quality commentary on mo gaming and credibility in terms of his skill. You...don't. Anyone that thinks that dps isn't completely out of control in this game right now has a fundamental disconnect with reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McGarnagle Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) Another marauder whine by someone who does not play a marauder. New and original. I play marauder and 2 other classes. Crazy amount of defensive cooldowns and a buff to the ops group (assuming spec'd into it) that makes huttball laughable. It's not easy to play, but has way more utility than every other class along with dps on the same level as any class. Only snipers are a pain since you can't jump on them. Edited April 13, 2012 by McGarnagle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordofdamornin Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 I like the guy, and used to agree with a lot of what he said. That was before I got more experience. Better not say anything negative about him, because several members of his kiss-butt chorus are constantly refreshing, and waiting to jump on you. Riôt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McGarnagle Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Today I learned half the people who play marauder on these forums just. aren't. that. good. Marauder has the highest number of bad players since they have to use a crazy amount of buttons, a ton of attacks are on cooldowns, and many are situational. If you don't have a mouse for MMO's (or at least a bunch of buttons) and/or a gaming keyboard with macros there is no way you can play marauder effectively. I see so many use general attacks, simple rotations, and attacks/cooldowns used at the wrong time. Before I made one I was confused why some absolutely destroyed me and others were a complete joke. Now I understand it much better. Although I will admit this post 1.2. My knockback on my merc really hurts marauders. Before it only delayed a good marauder from getting back on me and more than likely killing me. Yet now with reduction in time to kill that is enough to time to burn them down to the point they need to pop cooldowns (as a pyro merc I can also continue to slow them while I backpedal). By the time they start attacking me I can get them down to about 30% health. One or two more attacks then they pop undying rage. Stun. Wait (or just use rapid shots since I have nothing better to do). Finish them off. If my knockback is on cooldown they still destroy me, but it not they have been much easier to kill post 1.2 (at least for merc pyros). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cereyeth Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Bravo Taugrim, great read. You capture the thoughts of the majority of the PVP community perfectly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidpop Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Ohh so that is what the little icon is next to the commendation prices, you need the BM piece to upgrade. Are you *********** kidding me with this ****, srsly get some new PvP devs, now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jatria Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 I don't understand why people are taking what Taugrim has said as some sort of offense. He doesn't state anything outlandish, it true if you look at it all objectively. I guarantee the people trashing him haven't played half the mmo's he has. Where are their youtube guides and constructive posts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McGarnagle Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 I don't understand why people are taking what Taugrim has said as some sort of offense. He doesn't state anything outlandish, it true if you look at it all objectively. I guarantee the people trashing him haven't played half the mmo's he has. Where are their youtube guides and constructive posts? His comments are completely legit. Most just see him criticize their class and would rather bash him than actually create a counter point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragnarz Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 who's fault is that though. certainly not bioware's. they can't force people to play on test. perhaps some of the people complaining should have. instead they whine about how character copy isn't instituted yet. i play on test roughly half the time. usually it has the population of a standard server. so to say "little to no" testing went on is a bit disingenuous. Whatever the database BW usues, I promise I could write a script in under an hour to pull a player out of the production DB and insert into the test. ONE HOUR! test for a week. put it into production. link it to your website account and voila, copy yourself as much as you want. While I applaud you for playing on the test server, i suggest you stop now. based on the conclusions you seem to draw, you have nothing of value to add. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delease Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Very good read Taugrim, ty. ps. GW2 and Tera still won't replace the fun factor in SWTOR, this game is still evolving atm. It takes time to work kinks out in mmo's, Warcraft was not finely tuned it's first year, and even after TBC. Apples to Oranges man, but I agree on mostly what you have said far as 1.2 is concerned at this very moment. Yes, someone who gets it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delease Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 welcome to the sw tor community One of the worst in terms of selfish whiners I ever seen too. Its like people do not understand that things won't be perfect out the get go. Its the "i want this now that now" & fix this now, nerf that now, buff this now". I blame the generation of recent console gamers that never played PC titles really. Either way Taug had some good points & like most things, they will get looked. This game isn't even a year old and its getting content and patch fixes at probably the fastest rate I ever seen in an MMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slurmez Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Very good read Taugrim, ty. ps. GW2 and Tera still won't replace the fun factor in SWTOR, this game is still evolving atm. It takes time to work kinks out in mmo's, Warcraft was not finely tuned it's first year, and even after TBC. Apples to Oranges man, but I agree on mostly what you have said far as 1.2 is concerned at this very moment. I think you mean devolving, patch 1.2 was a significant regression of progress Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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