A Healer's 1.2 Grievances: The story of why healers are upset

[Icebergy]

OP has a couple decent points, mixed in with his "I'm sad because I am not OP anymore". But its mostly just "I'm sad because I'm not OP anymore".

 

Hard to take seriously when he talks about how happy he was being "immortal".

[pwnshoppe]

Just going to add my 2 cents. I never had a hard time killing a healer pre 1.2. It took maybe 2 interrupts of the right skill.

 

I thought the nerfs were because of PvE.

 

Cross heals were a little annoying because but if I had an equal number of dps, it still would not be a problem.

Edited April 13, 2012 by pwnshoppe

[Erasimus]

I understand the pain healers are feeling. But not because healing was fine prior to 1.2, it was definitely borked. Even, as the OP stated, really under-geared healers that knew their class could be almost impossible to kill.

 

One of the guild I run with on the Republic side has a very good commando healer. It was a running joke that he never lost. It wasn't true of course, he did lose occasionally. But when he was in a WZ with even moderately good DPS he would often finish with 0 deaths and would always top the healing charts.

 

I ran 10-15 WZs since 1.2. Good healers still can tip the balance but now they can be killed so their team has to be aware of their healers and protect them. This is as it should be. Prior to 1.2 geared healers were almost in a "God Mode". Many people wouldn't even bother attacking them. 1v1 few DPS could take down a healer.

 

I've played a healer in many MMOs. I stopped playaing one here because it was just too easy in WZs. Now I may go back to healing on one of my toons because it is challenging again and challenging = fun to me.

[amnie]

Why is it the problems you get as a healer I never have?

 

Healing is easy, doesn't require any skill... never did.

Still doesn't post 1.2. Get better

 

What are you doing wrong?

You're not LOOKING at what you're doing.

 

 

ok, then tell me how to heal better because I've been closely following pretty much every guide to scoundrel healing there is out there. (that I deemed worthy of reading after having healing experience in MMOs for 12 years now)

 

if you can tell me how I am supposed to get at least 3 medals in a 3 vs 8 voidstar match when your opposing pre-made team is in full battlemaster gear, please feel free to do so.

 

 

 

btw, I definitely agree that healing was a bit 'extra easy' in warzones when I had a guard on me, I did feel pretty 'invincible' a lot of times.. but now? give me a break.

Edited April 13, 2012 by amnie

[mishcleo]

This change to healing in PVP does suck, bad. Despite what someone said, no single dps should be able to kill a healer, it should be a stalemate. Same thing with a tank, no single dps should be able to kill a tank. Now, it's a joke. If you are not guarded, you are dead, and fast, and I have almost full battlemaster. I pug almost all the time, so most of the time the tank classes are gonna dps, that's just what happens when you play with a bunch of lone wolves. But unless I get a guard, I might as well do nothing more than throw myself a couple heals and drop dead.

Now as a sage to top it all off, I have terrible force regen, in that noble sacrifice always takes a big chunk of my health, like the dps are getting a free shot on me.

This is probably one of the biggest nerfs I have seen in an MMO at one moment in time. I honestly don't want to heal in a WZ anymore, but am reluctant to switch since I heal for raids, and I can't dual spec yet.

 

CC is also terrible in this game, and has been since I have been playing. There is way too much of it, too many interrupts, and all classes should not have them to this extent. Any two people fighting a caster can lock him down and almost keep him stun locked. There needs to be severe diminishing returns for stuns and snares.

[malistyx]

Seriously I am getting a bit tired of hearing the 1 vs 1 argument as far as healers. When one says a healer and a dps should cancel each other than they should actually strip the healer of ALL form of dmg even the basic attack for this to be sound, as many dps do not have a way to heal. Or to be fair they should give them a stim that does dmg with a 1 min cd or something, then the comparison would be fair.

 

Now this has nothing to do with the changes made, maybe they need adjustment I am NOT saying otherwise. IMHO just wait it out and it will balance itself one way or the other (fix or nerf). Meanwhile try to be fair on your comparisons.

 

Again IMHO healers are still needed they always will be, but that is good healers not button spammers. Of course unlike pre 1.2 full healer teams WILL NOT be viable and again IMHO this is a GOOD design decision. And finally NO, it is not a good design if you and your tank friend can hold off 3-4 people, in a game whose objective might be to capture the node you are defending...Did you ever consider in the past that YOU and your friend might not be as good as you think you are, and that the game mechanics were actually assisting you to some extend?

[Vellusix]

You already added the protest remarks: "You are exaggerating" etc. So I will try to refrain from using those.

 

But. I think the healing role has changed. Yes. THe fact that healers stop healing will only make life harder for your faction / team. You say Tank/healer combio is still strong, you cant kill anything, but you wont die either. Well. I dont see the problem with that.

 

As a dps player, it is frustrating that you cant defeat a healer. In my opinion, a dps vs healer fight should come down to skill, all things equal.

 

It used to be impossible for a dps to defeat a healer. Who would be able to heal himself and others a little bit while doing so. You still can. I saw it happen yesterday. THe difference is this: If you heal others while trying to stay alive, you will be eaten by someone who tries hard, and is skilled at, killing you.

 

Imagine the frustration for dpsers pre 1.2 - Youd need at least two good dpsers to take down a healer. And it wouldnt necessarily happen in 10 seconds.

 

Many classes die in ten seconds if focused by 2-3 people.

 

healers should be protected by tanks and their team. In my opinion, people need to look at healers value more strongly after this and not just mark enemy healers for quick zerg kills, but protect their own.

 

I feel your pain, but I think skilled healers will still be invaluable after this. Personally, I am even more determined to level my own healer fast so I can start healing in this game. I was fulltime healer in WoW, and I miss it.

 

/Mallo

 

I will never take seriously the opinion of someone who thinks they should be able to solo a healer, and neither should anyone.

Edited April 13, 2012 by Vellusix

[Ayami_no_baka]

I absolutely agree with the nerf commando healers got. The reason for them suffering most out of all the healer classes is, that they are so damn stationary. Every mobile healer is still fine, even with the nerfs...but not our poor commandos. I do not play healer myself, but when fighting them I notice the tremendous difference. It's crazy. They can't even heal themselves properly anymore, get nuked, come back same thing over again. It's really not hard anymore to just completely lock them out of the game.

 

All other healers are fine. Especially our little stealthy healer XD The healing nerf was needed, but commandos got it a bit too hard in my opinion. I was always happy to have one in my team before 1.2 now I'm like 'Yeah whatever...' and don't even care anymore. In general I am much less worried about the healers now because they are much easier to beat. I wish it was a little harder. Because easy fights are no fights are a waste of my time. So yeah. I feel for you guys.

[Neo_Aeron]

Pre 1.2 as sage healing in 4 seconds: around 8k in pvp ( force potency activated after first instacast). Now it is down to 5.5k. Deliverance/Di is kinda useless under focus now. 2.1 sec with ala relic lol.

same goes to commando - probes now cost one more barrel, and they out of ammo in like in not time if insta healing.

and yet again - not sure about scound/op - but looks like their heavy heal casts is prolonged as well.

 

pre 1.2 I was 703 expertise, 10.81% bonus healing. now 989 - 10.81 bonus healing. and damage buffed to 19%+

 

and still we got pvp trauma. most stupid idea.

 

P.S. giglled hard when they gave a free month after 24 april. most ppl playing from strart have bill dates around 10-20th of april. Looks like I just recieve my 30 free days and cancel sub to hell at 25 april.

[Carillion]

Basically, healing is a hard job and takes real skill. Bad players thought they were good at healing. but in reality it was that healing was overtuned.

 

Now healing is balanced, the bad players will leave, the good players will continue to heal, life goes on.

 

 

Hilarious, another nuggest of wisdom from generic dps #43685.

 

Slow, reactive heals and no mobility coupled with low hp pools (compared to damage output) vs massive frontloaded burst and boatloads of CC. You tell me what the outcome will be, regardless of skill lvl.

[exphryl]

Get a Guard from a tank.

 

Problem solved.

[VoidJustice]

This wasn't a class specific or faction specific nerf. This was a game mechanic change. I personally find PVP much more enjoyable now. Take some time and adapt, the entire game doesn't revolve around healing now, OH NOES... WHAT EVER WILL WE DO...

 

COWBOY UP PUP.

 

Guarding available for those that KNOW how to heal, my healers don't die, we still win every warzone we enter.

 

This is an obvious L2P issue.

Edited April 13, 2012 by VoidJustice

[Decoygaming]

The problem i have now is that alot of times people are dead before i can even get 1 cast of in Warzones. The so called "combat" balance is not there, matter of fact there is no combat since people drop like flies. One of my friends is a tank in pvp, he used to be very hard to kill now he is just some random guy that does no damage and dies like any other dps/healer. I do agree that nerfs were needed but this is way more imbalanced and something has to be done. I mean before you had several classes that could one shot people now every class seems to do it and that takes away from the "combat" in pvp since it will only last for 10 seconds tops.

[amnie]

I absolutely agree with the nerf commando healers got. The reason for them suffering most out of all the healer classes is, that they are so damn stationary. Every mobile healer is still fine, even with the nerfs...but not our poor commandos. I do not play healer myself, but when fighting them I notice the tremendous difference. It's crazy. They can't even heal themselves properly anymore, get nuked, come back same thing over again. It's really not hard anymore to just completely lock them out of the game.

 

All other healers are fine. Especially our little stealthy healer XD The healing nerf was needed, but commandos got it a bit too hard in my opinion. I was always happy to have one in my team before 1.2 now I'm like 'Yeah whatever...' and don't even care anymore. In general I am much less worried about the healers now because they are much easier to beat. I wish it was a little harder. Because easy fights are no fights are a waste of my time. So yeah. I feel for you guys.

 

do you play a healing scoundrel?

 

yes, it's true we are the ones that have the least problems with this nerf, basically because our base class/tree didn't really get nerfed at all, but that still won't change that we often don't get medals for healing now (unless you are close to a turret we own and the likes)

 

how often will you join up a warzone knowing you will just get ganked (scoundrels are super squishy) and getting zero commendations out of it?

[Darkammo]

OP has a couple decent points, mixed in with his "I'm sad because I am not OP anymore". But its mostly just "I'm sad because I'm not OP anymore".

 

Hard to take seriously when he talks about how happy he was being "immortal".

 

Pre 1.2 because of the way getting the Immortal announcement worked was not dying and getting 8 or 9 medals without dying. It's something dps and tanks get quite easily. As a commando healer, it was quite an achievement on figure out that it was even possible.

 

Civil War was where I managed to be able to get it because the defense medals helped push you over. The medals I got I think were....

 

2.5k heal, 5k heal, 1k defense, 3k defense, 10 kills, 25 kills, Killing Blow, 75k healing, 300k healing, 75k damage done.

 

Post 1.2 don't think healers will have the freedom to goof around to pursue such extra funsies.

 

You'd be happy to if you got "You are Immortal" announcement. That's actually the point of those announcements.

[Erasimus]

I will never take seriously the opinion of someone who thinks they should be able to solo a healer, and neither should anyone.

 

In a 1v1 the better player should always be able to win. Those that want a "God Mode" healer that can't be killed 1v1 are the ones that shouldn't be taken seriously. Healing is a support role (and I've played a healer in MMOs for over 8 years now).

 

They needed a nerf to healing to balance group dynamics in PvP. It was ridiculous seeing teams of almost all healers winning in WZs, which I saw a few times prior to 1.2.

 

It was either nerf PvP healing or give everyone the same healing abilities and do away with PvP healing entirely.

 

The good healers I know are pretty much fine with the changes and are enjoying the challenge. The people that choose a healer because they couldn't be killed, well not so much.

Edited April 13, 2012 by Erasimus

[Morticoccus]

I was actually planning to make a healer but as it looks now I'm happy that my first alt is a powertech.

 

One thing that I noticed straight away is that in low level pvp you can get a lot more kills as a powertech than as a sentinel.

 

However, even with all the bulk you've got you still melt very easily when you get focused. I dunno if that is the same as always (as I didn't play PT PvP until after 1.2) but it seems you're a bit flimsier than a sentinel (Which probably comes from lack of defensive CDs)

[Ayami_no_baka]

do you play a healing scoundrel?

 

yes, it's true we are the ones that have the least problems with this nerf, basically because our base class/tree didn't really get nerfed at all, but that still won't change that we often don't get medals for healing now (unless you are close to a turret we own and the likes)

 

how often will you join up a warzone knowing you will just get ganked (scoundrels are super squishy) and getting zero commendations out of it?

 

Nope. My husband does. Also a friend of us. I did play healing sage, switched to commando, started with healing tree and am now DPS. I've always been the healer in any other MMO we played together and finally decided to try something different as of now. But yeah, I DO know, what I am talking about.

 

Like I said: I understand the nerf hit the healers harder than anybody else. But I also think it WAS needed, even though they overdid it a bit. And like you said: out of all the healers, your class got hit the least. Which is exactly what I said before. We don't disagree, you just think we do XD

[Luno]

Here is what I noticed last night as an Operative healer.

 

-- Operative healing output is about the same.

-- Energy seems to deplete faster or regenerate slower.

-- Burst damage on several DPS classes has increased.

-- Players have less health.

-- Stealth is even easier to see through.

-- World PvE is a lot more tedious due to lower Operative damage.

 

I can deal with all that.

 

What I'm having a hard time dealing with is that, in Warzones, I now have to play the Medals game rather than playing the Warzone itself. If you are losing, the game is no longer about how to turn it around, it's about how to get enough medals so that the game is not a total waste.

 

In Alderaan you stop fighting and sit on one point to get objective medals, or you put on DPS gear and try to get a Hidden Strike Crit or maybe even the first damage medal all while not healing your team. It's sick and sad, and I hate it.

[Nikwendale]

I am and was a healer all the way through the game. (Sage Level 50 geared all pvp gear). I agree with Darkammo. The nerf to healers and a buff to everyone else does not do justice and just makes all healers under dps not balancing them. If we stayed the same and everyone else got a buff that would have balanced it out.

 

In a warzone I still get top heals or second but its way less than before. I was getting on average 300k heals in a warzone now Im lucky to get 250000 because im always dead. The instant someone targets me if its an assassin, maruder, ops well pretty much any dps I can not keep myself alive, and I can defiantly not heal someone else. Another thing with the pvp is the medals as a healer it seems like most ive seen people get is 9 maybe 10 medals if your lucky but on average like 5 medals. Dps gets 12+ medals just because they are dps I think if your a dps the wz just gives you 2 medals just to start the wz. One more thing about the war hero gear MY GOD sages look like sad disgusting creatures with that crap on. If anyone needed a nerf it was shadow and assassins yet they did nothing to them.

 

So Reroll shadow? or change my sage in to dps?

Edited April 13, 2012 by Nikwendale

[amnie]

Nope. My husband does. Also a friend of us. I did play healing sage, switched to commando, started with healing tree and am now DPS. I've always been the healer in any other MMO we played together and finally decided to try something different as of now. But yeah, I DO know, what I am talking about.

 

Like I said: I understand the nerf hit the healers harder than anybody else. But I also think it WAS needed, even though they overdid it a bit. And like you said: out of all the healers, your class got hit the least. Which is exactly what I said before. We don't disagree, you just think we do XD

 

no we do disagree because 'they overdid it a bit' is quite an 'underdone' statement. if I - as a scoundrel - am at loss because I know it's not worth the effort joining a late game (or queuing solo at all) then I don't even want to begin to imagine what sages or commandos feel like right now.

[Digtahk]

One of the things I always thought SWTOR did well when considering the balance of the game was devising different rolls for the different advanced classes within the style of PvP being played (Objective based PvP). So they had some classes that could put out high total damage number like sorcs which could stand at range and switch targets easily and if unmolested put out a steady stream of damage. But if the person they attack is getting healed they were never going to kill them in a million years.

 

Thus when people say a dps should not be able to kill a healer 1 vs 1, I disagree to the extent that I feel ALL DPS should not be able to, but to have 1 spec out of 15 designed with healer killing in mind as the Annihilation Marauder is was a good idea provided the way the class was able to do this was through steady dps and a number of interrupt abilities.

 

On to the OPs point I think the problem with where healing was at and its a problem that would have been solved by allowing 8 man queues and rated wzs is that in random groups you were too much at the mercy of lady luck in the group finder as to whether you got a healer and it was frustrating playing with no healers against a group with 2 which effectively made the game a no contest from the start.. BW have tried to fix this issue and I am not sure yet whether they have taken the right route

[Darkammo]

Again IMHO healers are still needed they always will be, but that is good healers not button spammers. Of course unlike pre 1.2 full healer teams WILL NOT be viable and again IMHO this is a GOOD design decision. And finally NO, it is not a good design if you and your tank friend can hold off 3-4 people, in a game whose objective might be to capture the node you are defending...Did you ever consider in the past that YOU and your friend might not be as good as you think you are, and that the game mechanics were actually assisting you to some extend?

 

Let's suppose for a second that of those 3-4 people that we were tanking consisted of these 2 good dpsers that can kill me. What's stopping them from being smart and using cc and knockbacks to seperate us and kill one of us, which they would have and could have done pre 1.2.

 

Not every 3-4 group could be dealt with by a tank and I. First need a well geared tank. Second need a 3-4 group that didn't interrupt or cc right. Quite common. Third, wouldn't hurt if half of that group kept trying to cap before killing one of us. You know you've seen it.

 

The only reason why healers got away with God mode was cause people didn't work together well enough. The tables were flipped and now it's like well you healers deal with figuring out the whole teamwork thing. We just want to faceroll.

 

DPS think it's broken that healers were hard to kill. But why? Was it impossible to win when the healer wouldn't die? Not necessarily. It was frustrating to not be able to solo kill something but killing isn't the objective of the warzone. There is no deathmatch warzone in which you win by having the most kills.

 

Having a strong healer on your opponents team that you couldn't kill didn't mean you'd lose. In a void star, you could not kill a single person and cap a door with baiting them off the door and ccing. Or transitioning from one side to antoher with slows and again ccs. In civil war, if you capped one of the side nodes before the other team, and had mid contested the whole game. Wouldn't require you to kill a single person against these god mode heals, and you'd still win the game. In huttball, you could not kill a single person and get the ball reset more often and outplay in maneuvering.

 

In no instance is it impossible to deal with the favored heal team. DPS has just expect to be able to kill everything in 1v1. They got a taste of the healing experience, and said it was "frustrating" cause they couldn't do their expected job of killing. They forget that there's also interrupting and ccing and working together. All that stuff you expect your healers to do, but woe is you if the game decided hey the dps should do it.

Edited April 13, 2012 by Darkammo

[kickinhead]

As it is now, I think the ablity of Healers to heal up Pressure is nearly fine (I play a VR78+ Sage Healer and a VR 65+ Shadow), It was way too easy to heal up Pressure-DMG, with that I mean DMG over a long period of time or spread out over several targets.

 

On the other Hand, even before the Patch, the ability of 2 Healers (which should be the right amount for a 8-man Team) to heal up focused and spiked DMG (which is, even with just 4 DD, way over 25k in under 1 second) was almost none. The Scoundrel had some decent instants, the Commando had bacta (like all 20 seconds, which against a good spike, would mean 1 decent insta-heal every 4th spike) and the Sage had the bubble, which can be dealt with pretty easily by spiking targets that have bubble-lockdown.

 

I would be fine with not being able to keep targets alive without ever going OOM, I'm not fine with not being able to do anything to heal/prot a target against 4 DD's that can count to 3 and are able to somewhat attack the same target at the same time.... Another very important thing is that the biggest DD's now cannot really be interrupted, yet it's very easy to interrupt/CC/stun Healers. Just think about it: Stunning 1 healer removes 50% of the heal, but stunning 1 DD only removes like 15-20%, see why 1 Healer should do more Heal more quickly than 1 DD does his DMG?

 

Solution: Give Healers 1 very strong Insta-Prot or insta/heal that has a big drawback like saccing HP or costing a lot of Mana, reducing mana-reg for a few seconds etc. - that way, healing up pressure doesn't get easier, because of the heavy drawback of the heal, but healing up spiked-dmg at least would be possible.

Give us THIS:

 

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Infuse_Health

Edited April 13, 2012 by kickinhead

[KretanMelithorn]

OP liked healing before 1.2 because healers were 1 man fortresses. Now they were brought into line a bit.

 

I will agree that damage output has been buffed too much.. probably need to scale it about a bit (5-10% max). But, hopefully we won't go back to pre 1.2 where it took a tremendous amount of focus fire to kill a healer.