A Healer's 1.2 Grievances: The story of why healers are upset

[Calitri]

If why someone that has no real chance of killing you one on one playing competently and equal gear as you. And then why they're not being able to kill them one on one is balanced isn't clear to someone. There's no real point explaining it to them, it's still going to be equally as unclear after your explanation.

[armyfreed]

Cry more b/c it takes skill now to heal? it Isn't a 3 button spam fest for you anymore... So QQ more and they will adjust your healing im sure b/c all the healers will do is come here and QQ and not learn there class... Like I said in a previous post, I see BH/comm healers doin very well if they play right use LOS and know there class... Obviously some of you don't and want your 3 button spam back... Sorry but no..

[armyfreed]

I'm not fine with not being able to do anything to heal/prot a target against 4 DD's that can count to 3 and are able to somewhat attack the same target at the same time....

 

Wait so you HONESTLY think you should be able to keep him up and alive with 4 DPS on him? are you insane or delusional? b/c that's just stupid

[Frankyblue]

I as a full Cent geared Scoundrel pre 1.2 sometimes could barely dent some healers,they would just laugth it off,hell i recall one it took three of us (All DPS) to bring him down and it was far longer than 10 seconds too,healing was getting way over the the top to the point Voidstars were nothing but who could get past just the first door,if that.

 

Why should some one in the worst pvp gear be able to kill a full bm healer?

 

They took a scale that had a 10 pound weight on the healing side and nothing on the dps side then added 20 pounds to the dps side and took the 10 pounds off the healing side. How is that balance??????????????????????

[truchaos]

Very well written/thought out prime post and, as a fully heal-spec'ed Sorcerer, I feel the pain of the OP.

 

The crux of a healer is the ability to negate damage done through (*gasp*) healing. That is the core concept of the role. If a healer can no longer support his/her team in that role, then what is the point of the healer?

 

Think of it like water in a bucket- A dps' job is to poke holes in the bucket and a healer's job is to refill the water. There should be a point of balance in dps output and healing- meaning that a fully heal spec'ed/geared class should be able to equal in healing a single, equally spec'ed/geared dps class' damage output. Water in should = water out in that aspect. It should be a draw. That is the core concept of the class roles. Now, alter the variables by adding in the human element and the outcome should be affected equally in turn. Reaction times, use of abilities, RNG, and overall player skill (yeap, I went there...) should be the deciding factor in the end outcome.

 

Now, the tipping point in the balance of things is the fact that in SWTOR, all classes are also hybridized dps. There is no true 'pure' healer in this game but there is pure dps/tanking, and that (not the healing itself) is what I believe caused much of the base problem in role design.

[Sookster]

I as a full Cent geared Scoundrel pre 1.2 sometimes could barely dent some healers,they would just laugth it off,hell i recall one it took three of us (All DPS) to bring him down and it was far longer than 10 seconds too,healing was getting way over the the top to the point Voidstars were nothing but who could get past just the first door,if that.

 

Are you scrapper? You shouldn't even be bothering with healers after the 4 or 5 nerfs that scounderal/operative has been getting. Even on my powertech and merc I laugh at them, only time I worry about them is when I'm fighting someone else or 2 other players.

[Darth_Philar]

Get a Guard from a tank.

 

Problem solved.

 

Nope. The problem isn't that healers are dying, it is that healers cannot keep their DPS alive since the amount of healing we do is in the gutter now.

 

YOU are going to die a lot now. We are STILL going to die a lot.

[Palinore]

O bioware.....

[Caeliux]

Basically, healing is a hard job and takes real skill. Bad players thought they were good at healing. but in reality it was that healing was overtuned.

 

Now healing is balanced, the bad players will leave, the good players will continue to heal, life goes on.

 

^ Yep +1

[Khoraji]

 

if you can tell me how I am supposed to get at least 3 medals in a 3 vs 8 voidstar match when your opposing pre-made team is in full battlemaster gear, please feel free to do so.

 

Join a better guild that can at least get 4 in a wz group?

 

Of course your going to get stomped 3vs8, thats not healing being broken, thats the q system being broken and ******es that leave Q.

[tufelhunden]

Oh that paragraph was about pre 1.2. That paragraph was under the "Then Came 1.2" heading so skimming can see it being misleading. The tank dies now. In fact if the tank is too close, one marauder can end up killing one of us cause taking some extra aoe damage. That's kind of the tank heal combo fault I suppose if they are too close like that but you need a 15m distance between and tanks are melee classes.

 

i'm going to go out on a limb here and say you've probably never played a heal spec merc or commando if you think all it takes is a 3 button spam in order to be effective.

[oMGitsree]

I actually noticed I healed for a little more in PVP BUT do less in PVE...weird

[kickinhead]

OP liked healing before 1.2 because healers were 1 man fortresses. Now they were brought into line a bit.

 

I will agree that damage output has been buffed too much.. probably need to scale it about a bit (5-10% max). But, hopefully we won't go back to pre 1.2 where it took a tremendous amount of focus fire to kill a healer.

 

May I guess how you play PvP: You go into a random PuG, maybe with 1 buddy and you're both DD's. Now you attack a healer together and wonder why you can't kill him.

 

In GW (which was and still is the best PvP-MMO that was built around 8-man groups) you couldn't kill a Healer just by simply bashing on him either, you could've been 3-4 DD's unloading everything and it wouldn't go down, why? Because it is a team game!

 

The Healers are the Backbone, everything revolves around killing the Healers, which in itself makes everything evolve around DPS-classes as well. But you can't and shouldn't be able to just bash on Healers to kill them, thats not how a Team-based MMO is supposed to work. Every class in this game has tools to either keep healers alive, or to kill them and it should be frustrating and hard to kill a healer, because killing the healer makes your team win the engagement.

 

What can you do to kill Healers, which even worked very well before 1.2:

 

- Count down from 3 and make every DD in your team unload burst-dmg upon a Healer. Don't just pressure him, cuz he will be able to survive with HoT's, Stuns, kiting etc. If you focus all your DMG and maybe stun him as well, there is no chance for him to keep him alive.

 

- Interrupt him: The pressure-heals of the Healer have a rather long casttime and time decides between life and death if you're a healer: If you pressure a Healer, just interrupt his heals!

 

- Take out 2nd and 3rd healers and support: 1 healer alone isn't a problem, but if he get's supported by other healers, Tanks etc. ppl may think that healing is OP. But simply CC'ing, stunning or keeping the other healer running by attacking him with a Melee-class will take out a huge amount of healing-power. You can't attack 1 Healer and leave his support untouched and wonder why nothing goes down.

 

This is a team-game and basically every whine-thread about basically every class, be it sages being too strong at healing, CC being too strong, operatives dealing too much DMG, can be easily "fixed" by not playing alone, but utilizing every class in your group.

Edited April 13, 2012 by kickinhead

[iceperson]

In 1.2 having a healer on your team is a liability. n+1 dps is always better than n+1 heals Edited April 13, 2012 by iceperson

[DarthxRage]

I used to dread void star matches that would end with no kills for either side because it was SOOOO easy for healers to keep people up. It still feels just as tough for me to 1v1 a healer and I'm a jug that was buffed. I, for one, am glad to see that people are actually KILLING each other in pvp.

[Ayami_no_baka]

no we do disagree because 'they overdid it a bit' is quite an 'underdone' statement. if I - as a scoundrel - am at loss because I know it's not worth the effort joining a late game (or queuing solo at all) then I don't even want to begin to imagine what sages or commandos feel like right now.

 

Everybody feels like that though. If I get put into a late game on the losing side with my dps toon I'm not happy either. What match you get to join when you q depends on luck for now. It's not just healers being sad and mad and screwed when they get put on the losing side in a 50-350 Alderaan or likewise. All ya can really do then is try and hurry to get your 3 medals.

[Janyx-Nehalem]

As a shadow tank, I think the OP is alluding to a shift in game balance that is going to REQUIRE tanks to up their game. Every tank I see is some kind of DPS gear wearing tank/damage hybrid, and I think that this will need to stop.

 

With damage going up, tanks are going to have to really learn better how to keep their healers alive, and stack more defensive stats to make that happen.

 

One of the big things BW needs to address is the use of shields in PvP. If shielding worked against more abilities, tanks could stack a wider variety of defensive stats and increase their survivability, becoming better at keeping taunts and CCs rolling on DPS trying to kill their healer.

 

I suppose it's an evolving system, I really hope BW starts making it less about OMGZERGDPS and more about playing smart.

[Ripert]

Well there are two different things that went on with this patch.

 

The first were the general nerfs to Sage and Commando healers, and the buffs to smuggler healers. Before, Sages and Commando could heal constantly without much worry of resources. This was toned down and smugglers brought up to that level. These changes, while painful, were probably needed.

 

The second was the change in expertise. Before having full expertise the bonus to damage done, healing done, and damage reduction was generally the same. Now, the healing bonus is about the same, so healing output is the same or a little less, due to stat changes on gear. The bonus to damage taken is slightly higher. The bonus to damage done, is much higher, almost double, plus some classes got buffs. This is the change people are scratching their head over. I'm not sure why it was felt that people needed to die faster.

 

The problem is, if a good DPS can put out as much damage as a good healer can put out healing (assuming same gear, same uptime), then why play a healer; might as well play a DPS at that point? A tank would be just as successful guarding a DPS and the best teams will be melee assist trains.

 

That said the sentinels in my guild are REALLY happy!

[Darkammo]

OP liked healing before 1.2 because healers were 1 man fortresses. Now they were brought into line a bit.

 

I will agree that damage output has been buffed too much.. probably need to scale it about a bit (5-10% max). But, hopefully we won't go back to pre 1.2 where it took a tremendous amount of focus fire to kill a healer.

 

True, but not because we were fortresses. Depended on your class. As someone said the Commando was the turret heals. Sages had to do more dancing. It was the implications of what having less stress on dealing with one person meant. It meant a healer could be responsible for healing much more than just himself.

 

A healer had the role of being able to heal like you do in PVE ops in a PVP setting. Coupled with the fact that tanks were allowed to guard in PVP settings, it felt like that was the experience BW was going for.

 

The mentality wasn't how do I keep myself alive. It was how do I keep myself alive and those other 3 people.

 

Since a lot of people are adverse to the idea of healers not being able to be killed 1 v 1 since DPS is conditioned to believe heals should be an easy kill, I'm willing to settle for making tanks unkillable and bestowing that unkillable love onto heals with guard.

[KretanMelithorn]

May I guess how you play PvP: You go into a random PuG, maybe with 1 buddy and you're both DD's. Now you attack a healer together and wonder why you can't kill him.

 

You guessed wrong. Close, though. I do solo queue. And, yes, I apply most of the strategies you mentioned in pre 1.2. Healing was over the top pre-1.2. The 1.2 patch went too far the other way to counter it... but it still needed to be brought into line. I am sure that it will be tweaked back but hopefully not back to pre 1.2.

 

I played GW, too. It wasn't all that fun a game nor interesting.

[SSsteve]

Why should some one in the worst pvp gear be able to kill a full bm healer?

 

They took a scale that had a 10 pound weight on the healing side and nothing on the dps side then added 20 pounds to the dps side and took the 10 pounds off the healing side. How is that balance??????????????????????

 

This^^

 

As a sorc healer I was very open to 1.2 for balancing the healing in pvp. I will agree that a healer that is able to "tank" 3 - 4 dps and healer other players is a bit ...no VERY OP.

 

However, the change tipped incredibly far to the other side.

 

Pre 1.2, DPS decried frustration over this, justifiably, to a point. Unfortunately, now that healers are incredibly marginalized post 1.2 DPS feel its is balanced. The truth now is healers have to now do 3 times the amount of effort to "slow the death process" against 1 DPS as opposed to the 3 DPS frustrated at not killing the healer. If a DPS calls that balanced then they are a hypocrit to their own pre 1.2 arguement

 

 

I am not flaming to say that I want god heals back. I am in agreement that changes were necessary. but, there is no reason for me to waste my time giving free kills to DPS.

 

pre 1.2 dps were frustrated but continued to play.

 

post 1.2 dps giggle with glee on OP kills.....healz are not frustrated....they quit.....they are not needed...

 

solution: Time to reroll DPS and enjoy the blood fest and feast on the current imbalance.

[Bob_Ta-aar]

You know, for every class in the game there are different playstyles. Different people prefer different abilities and stuff like that.

And everytime something changes with a patch, those who like the abilities that got nerfed, start whining "the game is completely broken now, my char is totally unplayable and useless".

Folks, that's just f*** rediculous! How about you try to change your playstyle a bit? Try out new abilities that got buffed?

Seriously, all the threads are full with people complaining that Sage healers got nerfed incredibly. My main char is a Sage healer and the way I play it, it got actually buffed. The way I use Deliverance and Noble Sacrifice actually costs less Force and Life now! And that's just how life is. When a patch changes something, some will be happy, some will be unhappy. But they can eighter make the best of it and keep on enjoiying the game, or they can endlessly whine about it and die in misery .

 

And don't even try to tell me that that's just because my playstyle sucks or is somehow 'wrong'. I'm the main healer of my guild and frequently get asked to come along with other groups by people who added me because they were very satisfied with my healing.

 

In one sentence: there's simply more than one way to play the game!

[KretanMelithorn]

Since a lot of people are adverse to the idea of healers not being able to be killed 1 v 1 since DPS is conditioned to believe heals should be an easy kill, I'm willing to settle for making tanks unkillable and bestowing that unkillable love onto heals with guard.

 

So, healers are mad now cause they actually die?

 

I do think healers should be able to be killed 1 v 1... but it is a long battle (even in 1.2) and not a sure thing... as it should be. Plenty of time for a good teammate to intervene and make your aggressor dead.

 

Even with interrupts and stuns pre- 1.2 2 DPs on a good healer was a long tortuous battle.

 

I will agree that damage output went too far... the penduluum swung to far. But, I sure hope it doesn't go all the way back.

[KaoticEmbrace]

Thank you very much for taking the time and writing this.. for the DPS that *****ed about not killing a healer... guess what WE COULDN'T KILL YOU EITHER!!. and now we not only cannot kill you but we cant even heal ourselves. so who's really been ****ed over. so start voting MVP for healers in WZ's because we are trying our asses off to heal the unappreciative DPS who doesn't even know we exist.

[Khoraji]

 

The second was the change in expertise. Before having full expertise the bonus to damage done, healing done, and damage reduction was generally the same. Now, the healing bonus is about the same, so healing output is the same or a little less, due to stat changes on gear. The bonus to damage taken is slightly higher. The bonus to damage done, is much higher, almost double, plus some classes got buffs. This is the change people are scratching their head over. I'm not sure why it was felt that people needed to die faster.

 

The problem is, if a good DPS can put out as much damage as a good healer can put out healing (assuming same gear, same uptime), then why play a healer; might as well play a DPS at that point? A tank would be just as successful guarding a DPS and the best teams will be melee assist trains.

 

That said the sentinels in my guild are REALLY happy!

 

No one is scratching their heads about the DMG buff from expertise. Do the damn match, DMG mitigation and DMG done now cancel each other out almost perfectly. Before DMG mitigation was winning.

 

As a merc healer, I have yet to have a DPS even come close to my healing in 1.2