Mar/Sents

[LordbishopX]

except it is... all dps classes are boosted... if you say otherwise you are wrong. thats why there other classes of the trooper/bh persuasion are getting 7-8k crits.. but no people are complaining about the sents/marauders who have to stack adrenals, relics and have the suns align to even get past 5k on watchman spec. WE are the oped god mode class?

 

Its because peeps expected sent/mars to be OP as soon as they read the patch notes on the test server they started crying. The reality is it's not even close to the damage bh/Troopers are hitting people like they are in tissue paper armor +8k hits are sickness....

 

 

Just thank goodness the population of dps BH/Troopers is smaller lol...

Edited April 18, 2012 by LordbishopX

[Bishidoblade]

except it is... all dps classes are boosted... if you say otherwise you are wrong. thats why there other classes of the trooper/bh persuasion are getting 7-8k crits.. but no people are complaining about the sents/marauders who have to stack adrenals, relics and have the suns align to even get past 5k on watchman spec. WE are the oped god mode class?

 

The issue is the "buff"(lol) and the PVP stat change happened at the same time, so while sents got a bump from the fix's they put in, they also got one from pvp stat - that's why... at least in my opinion where most of the QQ derive from.

 

Other classes got bump'd also and are doing some nice damage - people are just noticing the sent/mara buff so much because one, there are many more sents/mara's since its fotm atm - and also a few other classes got some nerf's so they feel butthurt.

 

just my opinion though ;P

[Assaultrooper]

I'm going to be honest here...

 

If this senseless and baseless assault against the Sentinel and Marauder classes doesn't stop then I promise that the Sentinel and Marauder population will band together and bring some things out into the light. Like 8,000 damage Seeker Missiles and Assassins and Shadows...

 

I do believe in fighting fire with fire.

 

Attacking us is pointless as we aren't overpowered, you just aren't used to losing.

 

I don't think so mister, cause I have never seen an 8k HM (It could be possible on naked people tho)

 

AND btw your intended argument that "marauders are supposed to be [god] dps cause they can only be dps" have been rebuked time and again by the very same Developers. Every dps spec (or atleast one per AC) should do marginally equivalent dps.

 

That said its not the dps of marauders that bother me (as a marauder myself) I find the survivability to be stupidly good. It goes so far as to be even better than Jugg tank's!!!!!!!! And BTW I have never ever EVER gotten into a fight with cloak of pain on cd (if you want to make the "its all cds dependant, catch them without them") It has a 1 min cooldown so its up THE WHOLE TIME, and lasts 30 secs! add that with saber ward, obfuscate, force stealth and undying rage. We got the best Dps in the game AND the best survivability as well as the hardest hitting channeled ability! (Where every other class gets maybe 2-3 defensive abilities...)

 

Your bad, and I mean REALLY bad if you think we are "fine".

[SinnedWill]

I don't think so mister, cause I have never seen an 8k HM (It could be possible on naked people tho)

 

AND btw your intended argument that "marauders are supposed to be [god] dps cause they can only be dps" have been rebuked time and again by the very same Developers. Every dps spec (or atleast one per AC) should do marginally equivalent dps.

 

That said its not the dps of marauders that bother me (as a marauder myself) I find the survivability to be stupidly good. It goes so far as to be even better than Jugg tank's!!!!!!!! And BTW I have never ever EVER gotten into a fight with cloak of pain on cd (if you want to make the "its all cds dependant, catch them without them") It has a 1 min cooldown so its up THE WHOLE TIME, and lasts 30 secs! add that with saber ward, obfuscate, force stealth and undying rage. We got the best Dps in the game AND the best survivability as well as the hardest hitting channeled ability! (Where every other class gets maybe 2-3 defensive abilities...)

 

Your bad, and I mean REALLY bad if you think we are "fine".

 

http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/1525/screenshot2012041801261.jpg

 

Link to a pic from a guy in BM/WH gear getting hit by HSM from a thread which is now closed. It isn't 8k, but it's close enough and he's certainly on pace for gear-superiority.

 

Furthermore: every class's dps spec is meant to excel at dps for its specific purpose (i.e. madness sorc. should excell at taking down tanks/tank-specs, lightning should be dealing out good AoE damage, etc). I'm pretty sure when he said dps in his marauder statement, he meant burst damage.

 

Never fight without cloak of pain? Then you're only fighting about half as much (at best) as you should be since cloak of pain will expire if you aren't hit every 6 seconds - so if you kill someone too quickly, it'll end if you don't have a long-lasting DoT on you or simply aren't being primed - so it lasts 6-30s. Undying Rage isn't the best defensive CD in the game - force shroud is - that belonds to the assassin. Specced UR costs 1/2 current health, lasts 5 seconds, reduces damage - easy enough to counter - Specced Force Shroud is 5s duration, 45s cooldown, removal of all debuffs/DoT's/slows/roots, etc. + Immunity to everything for duration, no cost required and no possible preemptive or retroactive measure can be taken to counter (other than stun if their stunbreak is on CD).

Hardest hitting channeled ability, hmm... too bad everyone knows how and when to counter it by now, but yes, I suppose it just might be the hardest hitting channeled ability - but hey, don't worry, there are all those classes out there that have instant abilities that hit harder than our total damage from a complete ravage. "We get the best dps in the game"? Debatable, but I've never seen marauders (even with dedicated pocket healers) out-dps many classes in terms of total damage at the end of a warzone. If you meant burst damage, then you'd still be wrong since the most burst damage comes from Ops/Scoundrels. Marauders have great burst + good-to-great sustained single target damage.

Edited April 18, 2012 by SinnedWill

[StyxzieWaterz]

The bottom line regarding sents is they were good to begin with. The people who have been sent since day one and aren't mouth-breathing, back-pedaling, keyboard turning , clicking scrubs know that we were op in the right hands before the "buffs" The baddy's (95% of the pop) are still bad, and you will still roll them. The sents/mara's who were already rolling faces prior are whats causing all the QQ posts, period.

 

The whole reason they buffed us is because most of the pop didn't or couldn't play them to their full potential, so they "fixed" the problem. The problem with that is they made the 5% of us who actually know how to play gods.

 

Even in this thread people are posting how "pro" they are and how "easy" it is to kill sent's with their master breakdowns and step by step "how to" guides. I guess since all these "pros" find it so easy to dominate us, they should leave us alone and everything is kosher right? Its hilarious to me honestly reading some of the crap people post about beating a sent/mara. Your obviously running into predictable scrubs, sorry to disappoint you.

 

The fact is if you can play a sent to the highest lvl's, we are pretty much unbeatable 1v1 (News-Flash,we pretty much were before the buffs too). They have made it slightly easier for scrubs/baddys to put out the numbers where they thought they should be. The only fix's the non scrub population was asking for were a few small tweeks, some stuttering issues with some ability's, and possibly making the other tree's more inline with WM/Ann - small things.

 

They are obviously going to "fix" issues that effect 95% of the population, as the majority... The majority cant play to the full extent and here we are... Its the sad reality of the situation. Add in the PVP stats being reworked (nice damage increase pretty much) to a class that already did great damage and the QQ tears begin to flow.

 

Mmm tears, so good.

 

My sentiments exactly. Check my post history, been sing the same song since like November.

 

Anyway this post sums up this QQ train and where it can be shoved.

 

/effing thread!

[onurgg]

Pre 1.2 average full length game with support against a good team who can stay alive = 612k dmg on watchman

Post 1.2 average full length game with support against a good team who can stay alive = 655k dmg on watchman

Wonder if the 43k average dmg diff makes us op now or hmm... expertise buff? certainly, master strike buff? ehhh... as sents/maras, we pass 10-15% of our time in a wz CC'd. Most of the sents/maras would say the same if they are faced against those who know what rooting and stunning can do to sents/maras.

I mean not whole a lot changed for Watchman spec, and it is still the best overall dps spec out of all specs for the class. If anything, they took force fade away from watchman spec... Are the people now realizing that Sent/Mara is a good class? Why was it so much of an underdog before? I just think people look at the class changes, and just compare to their class changes, oh yeah, we are the ones who got buffed the most... or is it... other specs became more useful but still have lower dps than watchman/annihilation?

 

just gonna post this out there, and think about it...

Suppose you have a perfect situation, and 2 classes. A tank-sin, and a Mara ; Both of these players have SAME skillset, and SAME expertise. So it's not really a gear or skill issue now...

question is... Who would win?

 

We might be able to do the same scenario vs a PT. Yeah let's hear some opinions from those who are experts at their classes as a mara or a sent. Tank-Sins, feel free to comment as well.

Edited April 18, 2012 by onurgg

[Raansu]

Pre 1.2 average full length game with support against a good team who can stay alive = 612k dmg on watchman

Post 1.2 average full length game with support against a good team who can stay alive = 655k dmg on watchman

Wonder if the 43k average dmg diff makes us op now or hmm... expertise buff? certainly, master strike buff? ehhh... as sents/maras, we pass 10-15% of our time in a wz CC'd. Most of the sents/maras would say the same if they are faced against those who know what rooting and stunning can do to sents/maras.

I mean not whole a lot changed for Watchman spec, and it is still the best overall dps spec out of all specs for the class. If anything, they took force fade away from watchman spec... Are the people now realizing that Sent/Mara is a good class? Why was it so much of an underdog before? I just think people look at the class changes, and just compare to their class changes, oh yeah, we are the ones who got buffed the most... or is it... other specs became more useful but still have lower dps than watchman/annihilation?

 

just gonna post this out there, and think about it...

Suppose you have a perfect situation, and 2 classes. A tank-sin, and a Mara ; Both of these players have SAME skillset, and SAME expertise. So it's not really a gear or skill issue now...

question is... Who would win?

 

We might be able to do the same scenario vs a PT. Yeah let's hear some opinions from those who are experts at their classes as a mara or a sent. Tank-Sins, feel free to comment as well.

 

Depending on CD's? The tanksin would most likely win every time. A PT? Really depends if they are smart enough to kite them (as they should be doing).

[bglodt]

I'm sorry that you are bad and are unable to kill marauders and think we are all 31/31/31 and letting them beat on you when they pop DR/GBTF.

 

Lmao... Awww.... You are so cute young one! You in fact said sent/Mara are easy to kill... No one thinks they are easy to kill, unless again, your not 50 and your fighting level 11s, or you have never fought an AVERAGE player. Yep the avg ones are hard to kill, the good ones even harder and the great ones....

 

Then again maybe you are just tgat great... But I doubt it. Sounds like your server needs more competition. They are in fact, NOT easy to kill. They are kill able but it's not easy as you have stated. And the fact remains even a subpar player on these toons is difficult to kill. I'm not saying nerf them, I'm saying the have better survivability than 2 of the 3 tank classes in tanking stance... And that's just ridiculous.

 

I do get it though.... Some people feel the need to argue the obvious to validate themselves. If it was raining outside and I said rain got my clothes wet... You would Arthur tgat it wasn't the rain... It was the mist.... Or the splashes.... Or tgat my clothes weren't actually wet... Im just imagining it.... Or that I should learn to walk.... So I could avoid the raindrops.

 

Sigh.... You are too cute little bear! Big hugs from daddy poo poo!

[Visue]

I'm going to be honest here...

 

If this senseless and baseless assault against the Sentinel and Marauder classes doesn't stop then I promise that the Sentinel and Marauder population will band together and bring some things out into the light. Like 8,000 damage Seeker Missiles and Assassins and Shadows...

 

I do believe in fighting fire with fire...

 

Now we're at the point at which those who play sentinels/marauders start threatening everyone else if we keep discussing problems with their class?

[Fdzzaigl]

Why are people so afraid of a team of marauders? Holy crap it's the easiest team in the world to beat. What good is all that dps is they can't live long enough after their CD's? Burn them down and hold them off, its easy as hell. But I suppose people forget warzones are objectives and look at things only as some sort of deathmatch.

 

What a bunch of crap, I wonder if these people who claim "that DPS isn't good if they can't live long enough after their CD's" ever played lvl 50 pvp from any other point of view than that of a marauder. Mara / Sent is DURABLE, they are not glass cannons by any means.

 

And the guy claiming the 31/31/31 spec: my level 30 marauder can slow people down to a crawl already while maintaining very high damage. Your solution: knock them off an edge, yeah, great thinking.

[Pekish]

how does ur lvl 30 marauder slow people? honestly... we have 2 slow one of which need to be pick from watchman tree

 

they are both single target and the one picked from watchman tree

reduce 50% speed for ONLY 6 second (cauterize)

 

the other one Leg slash is again 50% reduce speed for 12 second (this actually have a decent lengh)

 

and with those 2 u slow a group of 8 people down to crawl... you must be amazing

people must stop to think PVP is 1vs1

Edited April 18, 2012 by Pekish

[Akiva_IC]

Awww ... all the mara/sents were fine with healing being nerfed into the ground but now that you're undeniably the OP kings of PVP (and your population has tripled) suddenly OP is ok and no big deal.

 

What kills me is that half the double glow stick crowd is using the same arguments sorc/ sages were using against OUR nerfs ... and we had to put up with a month of you herp depts telling us to L2P and suck it up.

 

I called this the day after 1.2 patch notes came out - Mara population would surge and they be the most overpowered and over-played class in PVP. And now they are.

 

What's good for the goose is good for the gander. After weeks of Mara gloating, I hope they nerf you jags into the GROUND just so you can see how it feels.

 

"Baaaaw we only have medium armor and multiple defense abilities! WAAA we have to close to melee range! BOO-HOO we can only disappear the second we get close to dead despite having no other stealth abilities."

 

Same crowd was telling sorc heals and DPS that armor didn't matter, one defense was enough, being able to run away ( not vanish and become untargetable) made us so broken and OP. Get bent.

 

Your nerf is coming and as the first REAL FotM you deserve it. I'm gonna laugh my butt off when it happens.

Edited April 18, 2012 by Akiva_IC

[Goretzu]

You have NOT answered my question. WHAT cc's do Marauders have besides the 6 mass sec. CC and Force Choke that all Sith Warriors get? Again, SWs get more CCs.

 

I'm not gonna go listing my credentials, go read my previous posts, suffice to say I have plenty of Annihilation experience since release.

 

You keep on generalizing and complaing. You're a TROLL! I don't play Rage spec Marauders have the exact utility that Juggs have.

 

I eat people like you 1on1 for breakfast, because you are horrible players. There are good players and then there is everyone else. Unfortunately all the average to poor Juggs and Maras got the EZ button boost in 1.2. I would rather have pre 1.2 PVP because it was even more of a joke to own all the bad players, no matter who they were.

 

 

Again no they don't - you can say it all you like, but it still doesn't make it true.

 

Personally I think giving Juggs/Guards some decent point surviability CDs and removing the ravage buff from Mara would be ok.

[Antipodes]

Prior to 1.2 being put on the PTS, this forum was full of "Sorcs/Mercs/Healers are OP" and how weak melee classes are.

 

Now everyone is on the bandwagon of blaming BW for ruining PvP balance. Where are all of the people who asked for these changes? Are they still around to admit that BW listening to them was wrong?

 

Mara/Sents were already a top-tier class in 1.1.5 and now the gap has widened even more.

Edited April 18, 2012 by Antipodes

[Pekish]

honestly i dont get it i have a tankshadow and a sentinel and i am 100% sure my tankshadow is way more OP then my sentinel (even if i do higher damage/kill with my sentinel and probaibly in 1vs1 i would win my own shadow)

 

and I honestly don't care if Sentinel is OP they will fix it if that's the case i play sentinel since december so even when it was suppose to be the "worst class" and i will still play it later on with or without nerf i did good in pre 1.2 i am doing good in 1.2 i dont see why i shouldnt do good if they change it once again.

 

The only thing i see is that there are a lot of whiners that have no clue about pvp.

 

I really hope BW do what they have to do but dont pay too much attenction to this forum because seriously people has no clue

[Akiva_IC]

Prior to 1.2 being put on the PTS, this forum was full of "Sorcs/Mercs/Healers are OP" and how weak melee classes are.

 

Now everyone is on the bandwagon of blaming BW for ruining PvP balance. Where are all of the people who asked for these changes? Are they still around to admit that BW listening to them was been wrong?

 

Mara/Sents were already a top-tier class in 1.1.5 and now the gap has widened even more.

 

Ding! I suspect alot of the current PVP issues are caused by the DRASTIC decline in PVP healers. On my server, it's becoming rare indeed to see a full healer of any variety in PVP. my main is sorc heals and he's PVE only now. No point in bringing him to WZs. Tried after 1.2 dropped and the results were ridiculous.

[arkzehhh]

Ravage does like 10k dmg now. It's op as ****. But yeah it won't one shot you, but it comes damn close if you stand in it.

 

They'll get nerfed in the next big patch, fact.

And BH's will get buffed, truestoryyy

[karnyboy]

An Additional problem with Juggs/Mara's and their Republic equivalent in my opinion is that the last stand buff (Guarded by the Force I think on Republic Knights) is a little too powerful. a 99% reduction in damage and able to receive a full heal within that time frame is an extra life for them and they typically mop the floor of all who stand as opposition thereafter.

 

There need to be some sort of offset to using it, where as it should actually be a last shot to kill not a guarantee. I stand beside my healer as my Knight and mow down people all day, pop Guraded by the Force, have full stacks of Juyo buff and reap the benefits as I go through my rotation. Don't even get me started on how op it is on a Guardian?Juggernaut though.

 

It should have a 25 or 50% healing reduction while active. There's going to be many problems in this game and a flood of forum qq's when rated hits. You'll see, you can't honestly have a decent rated system in an MMO when you're constantly altering specs, changing abilities, etc.

 

It just follows an ebb and flow of FoTM group specs.

 

Not worthy of any sort of rating system in the least.

[V-Serp]

An Additional problem with Juggs/Mara's and their Republic equivalent in my opinion is that the last stand buff (Guarded by the Force I think on Republic Knights) is a little too powerful. a 99% reduction in damage and able to receive a full heal within that time frame is an extra life for them and they typically mop the floor of all who stand as opposition thereafter.

 

There need to be some sort of offset to using it, where as it should actually be a last shot to kill not a guarantee. I stand beside my healer as my Knight and mow down people all day, pop Guraded by the Force, have full stacks of Juyo buff and reap the benefits as I go through my rotation. Don't even get me started on how op it is on a Guardian?Juggernaut though.

 

It should have a 25 or 50% healing reduction while active. There's going to be many problems in this game and a flood of forum qq's when rated hits. You'll see, you can't honestly have a decent rated system in an MMO when you're constantly altering specs, changing abilities, etc.

 

It just follows an ebb and flow of FoTM group specs.

 

Not worthy of any sort of rating system in the least.

 

I think they knew rated WZs would just be full on 8 man Mara teams, and Republic would just quit queuing and it'd be 8v8 Mara vs Mara. Sent is okay but isn't as strong as Mara, just like seemingly every Republic class has some inferiority. I don't understand this lame mirroring, is it so hard to make them mirrors? There is really no reason to roll Republic now since faction vs. faction WZs are in place not just in Huttball anymore. I actually like Huttball but I rolled Repub just so I could play more warzones, as an Imp all I used to do was huttball.

[nschlan]

Yeah they totally made us OP...oh...wait..they just made our other 2 specs actually viable and NERFED the utility of Watchman a bit.

 

Sentinel is only OP in the hands of a good player. Bads will be awful at the class and get **** on.

 

And yeah healing got nerfed...but guess what, the good players still do great. I guess most people just aren't used to having to THINK in PvP.

Edited April 19, 2012 by nschlan

[Audenlol]

Ding! I suspect alot of the current PVP issues are caused by the DRASTIC decline in PVP healers. On my server, it's becoming rare indeed to see a full healer of any variety in PVP. my main is sorc heals and he's PVE only now. No point in bringing him to WZs. Tried after 1.2 dropped and the results were ridiculous.

 

Healers still win wz's.

 

Sorry.

[Assaultrooper]

Yeah they totally made us OP...oh...wait..they just made our other 2 specs actually viable and NERFED the utility of Watchman a bit.

 

Sentinel is only OP in the hands of a good player. Bads will be awful at the class and get **** on.

 

And yeah healing got nerfed...but guess what, the good players still do great. I guess most people just aren't used to having to THINK in PvP.

 

As many have stated you would be right IF marauders/sents were the only class out there. Thing is every class got nerfed ALOT meaning the gap that existed between classes is now bigger than ever. (AKA now, the only classes "more balanced" than all the others now are Assassins and Marauders.)

[Shadenuat]

I soloed a not so weak marauder today with my balance Sage. I promised one of my sage clanmates that I would kite a marauder from middle turret in Civil War to right turret all way long, and my god, I actually did - people who play "knights" are incredibly persistent when it comes for running at a "sage" bait. Probably not a "perfect" and clean kill, as we both were a bit wounded and did't open with full rotations, but it was closest to "assasin" which I got. Rooting from Sever Force and just right sequence of stuns seemed like the key. Of course, I ended up with less then 10% health, but still, was thrilling and fun. I don't believe there is a high chance to kill mar/sent in his "clean" opening, cause I would probably just fall down after jump on + few deadly throws, lol. Edited April 19, 2012 by Shadenuat

[Akiva_IC]

Healers still win wz's.

 

Sorry.

 

Yeah. They're so great. That's why the PVP healer population has nose-dived.

[Shadenuat]

I would take a healer and DD instead of two DD every day, but I would take two DD instead of two healers, and when it comes for a battle of DD+DD against DD+Heal, it's now a battle of skill, you won't get a win just because your group is more "balanced".