The penalties for losing are TOO severe

[Daecollo]

The thing i fail to understand is your wanting people to be rewarded for no even trying to win, to just sit there and farm medals. I find that outrageous and more annoying than losing.

It irks me when the point of huttball is to score and people are trying to farm medals via killing. The point of a warzone is to win, not to see who can hit who the hardest.

Thats why there are goals and achievements, a winner, and a loser. Hell no, they shouldnt give more commendations to the losers, this should make them want to try harder to win and work as a team.

 

Theres no reason trying to win if your fighting the wrong people.

 

3 Trainees vs 8 BMs = LolFloorwipe.

Edited April 15, 2012 by Daecollo

[Jeopardydd]

The thing i fail to understand is your wanting people to be rewarded for no even trying to win, to just sit there and farm medals. I find that outrageous and more annoying than losing.

It irks me when the point of huttball is to score and people are trying to farm medals via killing. The point of a warzone is to win, not to see who can hit who the hardest.

Thats why there are goals and achievements, a winner, and a loser. Hell no, they shouldnt give more commendations to the losers, this should make them want to try harder to win and work as a team.

 

 

actually, the way it is now, if you are losing you HAVE to try to farm medals if you want any sort of rewards at all at the end.

[Exartess]

Punishing everyone for the 5% that abused the system is discouraging to 50% of the players (the loosing team). The net result will be less pvp activity due to the concept of Just Deserts.

 

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-does-just-deserts-mean.htm

 

So it is obvious that some positive action must be taken that makes people want to participate in PvP while they are leveling up. The current system is not positive at all in that it slows down the leveling process. For a game like this one slowing that process is not something I care to think about.

Edited April 15, 2012 by Exartess

[HVCBuzz]

with the death of open world pvp and this war zone crap i think when my free time is up so am i.i joined a pvp server for open world pvp which no longer is part of the game .i use to defend tor against the nay sayers but idk any more it just isnt the game i want to play .the swg emu is looking better every day maybe after the server wipe ill check that out.

as for tor i dont really see it lasting years.most of my guild has all ready quit .most of my friends have long since left .not much point in staying in a game im growing to dislike.

[ArnDog]

The thing i fail to understand is your wanting people to be rewarded for no even trying to win, to just sit there and farm medals. I find that outrageous and more annoying than losing.

It irks me when the point of huttball is to score and people are trying to farm medals via killing. The point of a warzone is to win, not to see who can hit who the hardest.

Thats why there are goals and achievements, a winner, and a loser. Hell no, they shouldnt give more commendations to the losers, this should make them want to try harder to win and work as a team.

 

This is the most rediculous counter i have ever heard. Ofcourse the other teams are trying to win. They dont join a PVP match just to lose. But you cant win when you are so out equiped! You can even get the equipment cause yo ucant score to win!How is that balanced pvp?

[Jeopardydd]

This is the most rediculous counter i have ever heard. Ofcourse the other teams are trying to win. They dont join a PVP match just to lose. But you cant win when you are so out equiped! You can even get the equipment cause yo ucant score to win!How is that balanced pvp?

 

yep, classic catch-22

 

1) "of course you get destroyed when you are in such bad gear!"

 

2) "of course you shouldn't get coms when you get destroyed!"

[Erikusz]

The good thing about losers is that they make the game fun for the winners. I can keep on losing 20 matches with a smile if I knew that (at the very least) I was improving my character by earning commendations so I could buy better gear. And now? I'm just in a warzone to get pawned over and over again for 30-40 commendations per match... seriously... why would I want to play PVP now? To entertain others? Because that is all I'm doing really.

 

At the very least give the losers something for their effort, because there are A LOT of us!

Edited April 15, 2012 by Erikusz

[Brendicus]

the good thing about losers is that they make the game fun for the winners. I can keep on losing 20 matches with a smile if i knew that (at the very least) i was improving my character by earning commendations so i could buy better gear. And now? i'm just in a warzone to get pawned over and over again for 30-40 commendations per match... seriously... Why would i want to play pvp now? To entertain others? Because that is all i'm doing really.

 

At the very least give the losers something for their effort, because there are a lot of us!

 

yes!! Yes!! Dance for your epeen flogging pvp overlords, dance little monkey!!

[tlonwheels]

You honestly want to be rewarded for failing!? How about we just cry until BW just gives us the endgame armour without having to do anything but walk into the operation and say boo to the bosses till they give up the shiney's.

 

You are the 99%, don't want to work for rewards just get everything handed to you because you wanted to play.

 

As a note, I am not an elitest nor am I in any way a PVP God, I am a mediocre player and I'm not crying about anything. Well anything other than there are way to many servers for the amount of sub's for the game.

 

Could not agree more ppl try out the new system for two days and then it's straight ti the forums boohooo oh poor me the systems broke how about lol you suck at pvp learn to pay your class better and maybe you won't suck so bad....

[Jeopardydd]

Could not agree more ppl try out the new system for two days and then it's straight ti the forums boohooo oh poor me the systems broke how about lol you suck at pvp learn to pay your class better and maybe you won't suck so bad....

 

 

you are intentionally creating straw men, and you should stop it.

 

people are saying that under certain circumstances that some people are playing under, people get zero or very little rewards due to circumstances outside of their control.

 

instead of responding like a decent human being you are using that condescending BS about people being bad and "boohoo".

 

but here's the thing - if ANYBODY is requesting cookies here it's the people who want to defend the advantages they have (gear, full teams, premades). YOU are the one who is trying to preserve easy mode for you and some other people. the condescending attitudes should be directed at you, not coming from you.

Edited April 15, 2012 by Jeopardydd

[laddpool]

i understand what you are saying, but the way it is now, with bad armor you will usually lose. with little to no rewards for losing, you cannot get good armor.

 

it's a giant catch-22.

 

it's even worse if you are on the non-dominant faction and you also have to deal with 1/2 filled teams, people quiting like crazy, etc.

 

whether you like the idea in theory or not, this does not and will not work in practice.

 

btw, your post would make a lot more sense if it had less to do with gear and faction disparities and more about skill.

Premades groups win ALL TIMES at most! And most of players is pug groups.... if premades win all times and pugs groups lost at most they after a time leave this game.... If i are played for nothing i not pay more months for this!

Edited April 15, 2012 by laddpool

[Gonewild]

yep, classic catch-22

 

1) "of course you get destroyed when you are in such bad gear!"

 

2) "of course you shouldn't get coms when you get destroyed!"

 

Right?

 

Prior to the patch BW Devs stated that PVP should not be gear-centric. However, with the reward distribution decreased and upgrade acquisition costs increased those words seem pretty hollow.

 

Good thing I un-subbed. I wonder how long Customer Service will continue throwing free months at players to keep server population up? lawl

[Erikusz]

Could not agree more ppl try out the new system for two days and then it's straight ti the forums boohooo oh poor me the systems broke how about lol you suck at pvp learn to pay your class better and maybe you won't suck so bad....

 

Hey dude, you know, Bioware is always open to feedback and I think they really should consider this very carefully. I'm sure you are an awesome PVP player, wiping everybody who stands in your way, -but you are a minority. The real question for bioware is: Do they want all players to participate in warzones, or just a small elite?

 

I think the anwer to that question is rather obvious.

Edited April 15, 2012 by Erikusz

[Gorrdan]

Could not agree more ppl try out the new system for two days and then it's straight ti the forums boohooo oh poor me the systems broke how about lol you suck at pvp learn to pay your class better and maybe you won't suck so bad....

 

Troll is back. Just check this guys post history and put him on ignore. Not even worth it.

[Audenlol]

This is what happened after patch day on Ilum back in January on my server. The imps, who outnumber pubs almost 3:1 farmed our base all day, got battlemaster, and started gearing well before most of the Republic players could get to valor 60. The end result was about a month where Republic got absolutely steamrolled in almost every warzone because we were so badly outgeared, and were still in the process of grinding it out to 60 to start gearing up.

 

The same thing is going to happen here if something isn't done. AND warzone quitting is going to become an even bigger problem that it already is. I'm sure people will begin quitting before the game even starts if they see more than one teammate with <14k HP.

 

Even tho I agree with the op, what I quoted is just qq.

 

Per 1.2 the difference between bm and champ was insignificant versus good players.

[Erikusz]

Right?

 

Prior to the patch BW Devs stated that PVP should not be gear-centric. However, with the reward distribution decreased and upgrade acquisition costs increased those words seem pretty hollow.

 

Good thing I un-subbed. I wonder how long Customer Service will continue throwing free months at players to keep server population up? lawl

 

I'm actually considering this right now. I'm done with all these changes, I can't keep up with it, I got end-game characters on dead servers, loads of unusable champion commendations, a useless centurion set for which I've worked really hard and no money because I had to buy the recruit set... enough is enough.

Edited April 15, 2012 by Erikusz

[JattaGin]

The thing i fail to understand is your wanting people to be rewarded for no even trying to win, to just sit there and farm medals. I find that outrageous and more annoying than losing.

It irks me when the point of huttball is to score and people are trying to farm medals via killing. The point of a warzone is to win, not to see who can hit who the hardest.

Thats why there are goals and achievements, a winner, and a loser. Hell no, they shouldnt give more commendations to the losers, this should make them want to try harder to win and work as a team.

 

Well, I can only speak for myself, but I want to be rewarded for TRYING to win. Because this is how I always play(ed). I used tactics, I tricked... all in favour of the win. I'm a teamplayer.

 

Now, since 1.2, playing like this, you get punished. Against geared up IMP massives, there is no chance on our server to win as REPs. I continued playing my usual teamplay until Friday. By then, I never got more than 2 medals, because you don't get anything if you attack, but fail to win a target.

 

Then, with 0 commendations after like 10 hours of playing, I had to change my playing style. Since Friday evening, I play like this:

 

1. High damage shots (gunslinger) until I get 75k damage. 1 medal.

2. Try to do a finishing shot, even if it means I steal the kill for someone else. All others do it this way, too. 1 medal.

3. Stand in defense until I get 1 medal. No matter if someone comes or not.

 

Then, and only then, am I willing to start teamwork play. Because only then I am assured to get something out of the warzone. It is horrible for me to play like this. But trust me, if we don't have a REP vs. REP game, we will have no chance to win, except if you're in a well organised guild group or something.

 

You talk about Huttball: If I'm in a REP vs REP warzone, it makes so much fun. All is equal, we have close results. If I play in REP vs IMP, we mostly lose 0:6 these days. Yesterday, the game was over after 2 minutes. We didn't even get close to the ballkeeper. They ran so extremely fast, no stun worked on them, they ran through the fires, zero damage. I don't know how they do it. If I say: cheater, I get flamed here on the boards and they tell me I suck at PVPing.

 

Have a look at these screenshots of my latest PVP games. Check how many medals the IMPs get and how many the REPs. And you can tell me anything just not that this is only because IMP players are better. Often they are just one-click-monsters without any skills. Yet they rule the warzones. Check who is on the first 8 positions. With very few exceptions, it's IMP only. And look at their medals. Most of them always have two digits. And then compare to the REPs. In the 2nd picture, you see a Huttball result. Check how little damage was done in general. It's the one I mentioned above. We didn't even get the chance to do damage.

 

Example 1

 

Example 2

 

Example 3

 

Example 4

 

Example 5

 

Example 6

 

I haven't won a single warzone since 1.2. Not even close to winning. And I will NOT accept if you blame me and the other players alone for it. Believe it or not: We don't suck just because we get slain! The IMPs don't go one on one on me. They know why. For me, this is not what PVP is about.

 

I find the dailies boring. Now, the warzones are useless, too. There is nothing much left except starting new chars. This game is going down quickly. A shame.

 

P. S. Maybe I have just bad luck with my server.

[Erikusz]

Well, I can only speak for myself, but I want to be rewarded for TRYING to win. Because this is how I always play(ed). I used tactics, I tricked... all in favour of the win. I'm a teamplayer.

 

Now, since 1.2, playing like this, you get punished. Against geared up IMP massives, there is no chance on our server to win as REPs. I continued playing my usual teamplay until Friday. By then, I never got more than 2 medals, because you don't get anything if you attack, but fail to win a target.

 

Then, with 0 commendations after like 10 hours of playing, I had to change my playing style. Since Friday evening, I play like this:

 

1. High damage shots (gunslinger) until I get 75k damage. 1 medal.

2. Try to do a finishing shot, even if it means I steal the kill for someone else. All others do it this way, too. 1 medal.

3. Stand in defense until I get 1 medal. No matter if someone comes or not.

 

Then, and only then, am I willing to start teamwork play. Because only then I am assured to get something out of the warzone. It is horrible for me to play like this. But trust me, if we don't have a REP vs. REP game, we will have no chance to win, except if you're in a well organised guild group or something.

 

You talk about Huttball: If I'm in a REP vs REP warzone, it makes so much fun. All is equal, we have close results. If I play in REP vs IMP, we mostly lose 0:6 these days. Yesterday, the game was over after 2 minutes. We didn't even get close to the ballkeeper. They ran so extremely fast, no stun worked on them, they ran through the fires, zero damage. I don't know how they do it. If I say: cheater, I get flamed here on the boards and they tell me I suck at PVPing.

 

Have a look at these screenshots of my latest PVP games. Check how many medals the IMPs get and how many the REPs. And you can tell me anything just not that this is only because IMP players are better. Often they are just one-click-monsters without any skills. Yet they rule the warzones. Check who is on the first 8 positions. With very few exceptions, it's IMP only. And look at their medals. Most of them always have two digits. And then compare to the REPs. In the 2nd picture, you see a Huttball result. Check how little damage was done in general. It's the one I mentioned above. We didn't even get the chance to do damage.

 

Example 1

 

Example 2

 

Example 3

 

Example 4

 

Example 5

 

Example 6

 

I haven't won a single warzone since 1.2. Not even close to winning. And I will NOT accept if you blame me and the other players alone for it. Believe it or not: We don't suck just because we get slain! The IMPs don't go one on one on me. They know why. For me, this is not what PVP is about.

 

I find the dailies boring. Now, the warzones are useless, too. There is nothing much left except starting new chars. This game is going down quickly. A shame.

 

P. S. Maybe I have just bad luck with my server.

 

Great post! Totally agree.

[Jeopardydd]

Well, I can only speak for myself, but I want to be rewarded for TRYING to win. Because this is how I always play(ed). I used tactics, I tricked... all in favour of the win. I'm a teamplayer.

 

Now, since 1.2, playing like this, you get punished. Against geared up IMP massives, there is no chance on our server to win as REPs. I continued playing my usual teamplay until Friday. By then, I never got more than 2 medals, because you don't get anything if you attack, but fail to win a target.

 

Then, with 0 commendations after like 10 hours of playing, I had to change my playing style. Since Friday evening, I play like this:

 

1. High damage shots (gunslinger) until I get 75k damage. 1 medal.

2. Try to do a finishing shot, even if it means I steal the kill for someone else. All others do it this way, too. 1 medal.

3. Stand in defense until I get 1 medal. No matter if someone comes or not.

 

Then, and only then, am I willing to start teamwork play. Because only then I am assured to get something out of the warzone. It is horrible for me to play like this. But trust me, if we don't have a REP vs. REP game, we will have no chance to win, except if you're in a well organised guild group or something.

 

You talk about Huttball: If I'm in a REP vs REP warzone, it makes so much fun. All is equal, we have close results. If I play in REP vs IMP, we mostly lose 0:6 these days. Yesterday, the game was over after 2 minutes. We didn't even get close to the ballkeeper. They ran so extremely fast, no stun worked on them, they ran through the fires, zero damage. I don't know how they do it. If I say: cheater, I get flamed here on the boards and they tell me I suck at PVPing.

 

Have a look at these screenshots of my latest PVP games. Check how many medals the IMPs get and how many the REPs. And you can tell me anything just not that this is only because IMP players are better. Often they are just one-click-monsters without any skills. Yet they rule the warzones. Check who is on the first 8 positions. With very few exceptions, it's IMP only. And look at their medals. Most of them always have two digits. And then compare to the REPs. In the 2nd picture, you see a Huttball result. Check how little damage was done in general. It's the one I mentioned above. We didn't even get the chance to do damage.

 

Example 1

 

Example 2

 

Example 3

 

Example 4

 

Example 5

 

Example 6

 

I haven't won a single warzone since 1.2. Not even close to winning. And I will NOT accept if you blame me and the other players alone for it. Believe it or not: We don't suck just because we get slain! The IMPs don't go one on one on me. They know why. For me, this is not what PVP is about.

 

I find the dailies boring. Now, the warzones are useless, too. There is nothing much left except starting new chars. This game is going down quickly. A shame.

 

P. S. Maybe I have just bad luck with my server.

 

sucks, man.

 

lets say you get 40 comms per match (which is actually on the high side for losses and more than you were getting in your screenshot examples), and you play one full match per 30 minutes (playing + queuing)

 

it's 84k coms to get WH armor

 

that's 2100 matches.

 

that's 63k minutes, or more than 43 full 24-hour days of play time. or that's more than a year of playing 4 hours a night 5 days a week (playing 20 hours a week for a full year). that's only time spent doing nothing but pvping. add time if you want to, say, craft or go to the bathroom.

 

by that time, there will be multiple new, better sets so you won't be even in gear even after all that time.

 

and that's with a fairly high number of coms won from the losses.

 

and that's without having to get your BM gear first, which is a whole 'nother grind.

 

yes, you get some from dailies, and you win win from time to time when you get with a premade and against pugs...but come on....

Edited April 15, 2012 by Jeopardydd

[Erikusz]

*Bump

 

This thread needs a dev reply.

 

... hehe ... yeah in my dreams.

[Nhaok]

My server has less than 30 on fleet during peek hours.

Just rerolled on Fatman.

Having fun.

Hit 10. Went to pvp as normal. Hutball.

 

1) Binded pass hutball to mousekey.

2) Helped chase down their carrier.

3) Helped defend ours (the few times we had the ball)

4) Lost 1-6

 

Surprised that I had 0 reward across the board.

 

Is this because I came into the game at 0-2 or is this because there is 0 reward for loss now?

 

I had 6 medals.

 

 

If this is true I see good and bad points.

 

Good:

+No more people afking to rewards as you have to try to win at all cost.

+People will go for objectives more often.

+I get to play 1-49 PvP more =D

 

Bad:

-Even bigger reason to quit when you are losing at the beginning of the game.

-When it is close you get nothing for a great game.

-People losing because of being outgeared will never "catch up."

[PullinStuff]

Let me guess you got full BM easy mode pre 1.2. Am i right? because i am seeing a pattern here.

 

Don't have BM gear... qq qq qq

 

I don't Either, and we do not see me crying to get more comms to do so....

 

Let's do the math

 

Comm cap is 2k

 

I get 8 medals per match usually (good average)

 

losing gives me 48 comms winning gives me 80- something

 

(I just got out of HB 8 reps to 4 imps we lost 6-0)

 

Lets overstate, WZ = 20 min

average rate/wz considering 50/50 (we will underestimate) 60

 

if you drop losses, considering the same 50/50 ratio the average rate/wz = 40

 

Everyone who is in had the chance to gear before 1.2, call it early bird rewards, contends with new players who did not, on their side and the opponents side. Faction based win loss is not absolute, the random rate prevails.

 

2000/60 = 33.3333333 wz to cap

33.33*20 = 666.66 minutes to cap

 

dropping

2000/40 = 50 wz to cap

giving the same 666.66 minutes the non dropper has

666.66/50 = 13.3332

you have to spend an average of 13 minutes per wz to equal the efficiency, considering half are winners 25*7=175 minutes are lost to winning wz 333.33-175= 158.33 minutes spread over 25 wz which should lose 158.33/25=6.3332 minutes to determine a winner over a loser. This also has the failure variable to consider, failing to determine winners from losers.

 

 

What is the point? How much comms do you need?

 

Why should you leave?

 

Logic dictates unless you can guarantee you will get winning wz teams when you drop out, which you cannot, dropping is a net loss, especially if you all are as good as you can claim in the forums.

[Exartess]

The good news is that the data they are collecting will paint the true picture. BW has demonstrated a commitment to changing things when the data shows a negative trend.

 

There are two distinct groups of people that this new system is effecting in very different ways.

 

The level 50 group who is seeking valor and gear

The sub level 50 group that is leveling and pvping on the side.

 

The Pro and Con posts in this thread contain the pov of all four platforms. PvP has changed with every content patch. I am confident that it will change again.

[Krazed]

People can sit there and say the new system is good, what about when less people queue up and the wait gets longer and longer?

[Lightmaguz]

Bro

 

No one wants to be rewarded for losing and preforming badly. No one is saying that. But you assume that all things are equal in SWTOR PvP land. That everyone has the same gear and expertise and no one has the advantage.

 

Fact is there is a severe faction imbalance across multiple servers. One side is simply dominated by the other. This leaves one side with a easy gear grind and the other with a very hard gear grind.

 

With the old system even if you lost and preformed well (got your 4 medals) you got enough WZ comms to make it worth your while. You could at least compete in the gear grind with those who were winning.

 

Now there is no way. Players who lose more than half of there matches are looking at well over 520+ hours to get a War Hero set. You break that down it equates to roughly 6 months or more of grinding WZ 6 hours a day. Players who win over half there matches are looking at 450+ hours or about 5 months of grinding 6 hours a day.

 

Sorry but I didn't sign up for a Korean grind fest MMO. I like gear progression and you need to work for it but this is a bit excessive.

 

Ceasaigh knows, and for the record it's not worth my while to stay in losing wz's anymore, if it starts with less than 8 I'm already gone for example, making it even worse on the undermanned team.