Very upset with the new system.

[Kehiss]

Fully agree. It's simply no fun. As a healer I now get killed at least twice as often as before, so I spend a lot of time running back out from the box - just to get killed again. This is fun? At least in the past I'd get a few commendations. I was never going to have enough for fancy gear, but that didn't worry me. The occasional fun bit of PvP and the occasional reward was enough. Now nothing.

[Tiriensoul]

I hate this, "we are all winners" mentality. Some win, some lose. Get over it and fix your mistakeas.

 

Mistakes.

 

Pre-made vs pugs, what part about that don't you understand?

Until BW has Cross server PvP so Pre-made goes against other Pre-mades Risk/Reward doesn't work.

 

 

But trust me when i say... They will change it. I don't believe i am the only one not liking it, infact i see more people annoyed with the system due to Pre-made vs pug!

 

And fix your mistakes doesn't work either, we are not talking about 1vs1, you have 7 more people that you can't control. You are sooo stupid it's hard not to say something about you.....

[dprijadi]

I don't get it..on one hand, a lot of the same people saying "not everyone can be a winner" (newflash, no one is asking for that) are pissing and moaning about "dead servers" and complaining there is no one to PvP with.

 

Then, those same people defend a system that prevents people from starting to PvP. How does someone else getting commendations, Xp, credits (not as much as you but some) hurt YOUR gameplay?

Guess what it does do though? It causes less people to PvP.

 

In the server merge thread, I've been saying 'we need to look at things to increase population."

 

Now I see why most aren't. They want this game to be an elite, hardcore, game that 50 people play. They don't want a bigger population, they don't want to do things to get more people to play. They want the game to show the world how ****** they are and if someone else gets a little enjoyment from not being "******" and just playing, they would rather close/merge servers than cater to them.

 

true , i see it the same way.. some loudmouth elitist that was carried by their pre-made team usually scream the loudest that the amount of reward that loser gets should be nerfed..

 

this is crazy, i dont see how a loser's reward in 1.15 affect the winning team ?

 

i gues what you saying is true , some ppl just plain mean and they forgot this little 'population' problem when everyone got mad and left.. remember.. the majority of people who quit / unsub never post in forum... they just fade away quietly letting their subs ran out and never extend it...

[ekwalizer]

I hate this, "we are all winners" mentality. Some win, some lose. Get over it and fix your mistakeas.

 

QFE

 

Also it helps to play more than one losing WZ before coming here to QQ.

[Agemnon]

I have a solution!!!!! Don't wait till level 50 to start pvping you can start at level 10 for a reason I'm surprised no one has mentioned this!!!!!

 

P.s. I only made it to the 5th page before I was so sick of all the lady boys crying

 

Then you could be blamed for making your team lose. If only queueing at level 10 were viable =(

[dprijadi]

Then you could be blamed for making your team lose. If only queueing at level 10 were viable =(

 

hahaha yes he is advocating the horrible idea.,. he is going to be the one that ppl said at beginning of Wz .. 'omg im teamed up with lv10s' lolz

[pancakesninja]

While I see a lot of validity in both arguments here... the truth of the matter is that:

 

A) 20 Commendations =/= Nothing

 

B) Who wants to really waste 15-20 minutes DEPENDING to earn a complete joke for commendations? I certainly dont. I pay 15 a month to play, if it takes me an entire month to get one piece of gear, there's something wrong there. (I'm not saying it does, but really, think about it... some have more time to play than others)

 

C) The increase in medals is a good idea to combat the players who AFK through warzones and get 100 medals for going AFK. While at the same time, this is just another system that ENCOURAGES SOLO PLAY. Why be a team player when I can just rage and bash everyone but still get 4 medals per warzone and earn some commendations? I'll get my 4 medals and go afk (obviously I wont do this, but others may see it as fitting. If the shoe fits, wear it right?)

 

D) Dirtyboxer (I dont care how you spell your name), you have a very skewed sense of awards to players. You are the typical hardcore gamer that fails to recognize that there are casual players out there who like to enjoy the game win or lose. Not sit here and listen to a bunch of players who have the attitudes you have which carry the "win all the time" and "if you lose you just need to fix your mistakes" attitudes. I have some news for you: This game IS NOT about YOU. It is about the COMMUNITY. The community so far disagrees with your posts, I think it would be safe to tell you to just walk away and hang your head in shame or tuck your tail. Otherwise, open your mind genious, because you are preaching to a choir that's apparently heard your sad story more than once.

 

E) While I may disagree with Dirtboxer on a lot, he is DEFINITELY correct. The new Recruit gear is credit-acquired and adds relatively 800 expertise with the entire set minus the relics. That's a good 16% damage boost and you guys are complaining about getting steamrolled. Okay, I understand it isn't battlemaster stuff.... but it's a damn good starting set. Why sit and whine? Just pick that up until you have enough commendations.

 

F) Winners and losers DO NEED TO BE SEPERATED. While losing should give us a 'try harder next time' sense of appreciation, we're not receiving any incentive to even remotely give a squat about the changes made, and henceforth, losing is just another way of saying "heh, here's 20 comms, just afk next time. itll be okay" I don't believe that's a very healthy system. I'm sure plenty of others agree with me. If I'm not going to have any incentive to try.... why try? Yeah, that makes plenty of sense. Rebuttal incoming right?

 

G) Winning shouldn't take place over having fun. While I said in the previous section, winning and losing should be separated, I believe winners should earn more. Sure, you guys won, take the spoils, earn 120-200 comms for all I care... but give the losing team at least 80-100. Or 150 win, 75 lose. That would make a lot more sense. This is a GAME. We should have FUN, not bash our heads against the wall repeatedly until our brain cell count is lower than and old man's testosterone levels. I know I've sat there and used my nose to DPS someone down once. Didn't work out of course, but that's how frustrated I was.

 

H) The game has been balanced quite nicely. While I agree that the Marauder buff was completely unnecessary, I've killed plenty as a Rage specced Juggernaut. If a Marauder is on you and you're a sorc, you had better hope a few people heal you, or you are a lightning spec sorc for the overload root. The balancing has been well thought out, other than a few minor adjustments that are needed.

 

All in all, there are some healthy contributions as far as ideas, but none of you have bothered to try and list any, and instead are reitterating the same points over and over to no avail. You really should try listing ideas, or at that, bullet list something so people have a general consensus to say "yay" or "nay" to so you can go back to the brainstorming board and re-write another one from scratch. It never hurts to post your ideas. Trolls will be trolls, and a douche will be a douche. To each his own, but seriously, dirty, your skewed logic of what is fun is warping the entire community against you. Try expanding your mind a little to see it through the eyes of the people who dont have nearly as much money to upgrade their pc's (me being one of them), and people who have to work for a living instead of being Basement Jedi in their parents house. Your warhammer philosophy of how this works is sadistic and rather just outright sad. I'd like to see YOU come up with some brilliant ideas that balance the idea of winning and losing out, because as it is.... I've won many games, but I agree with the people losing that it's terrible.

 

I also still agree that yes, we should fix our mistakes, but that doesn't mean we should suffer endlessly until we fix one to find 6-8 others. End of story.

[Zyillo]

I don't like to PVP. I hate it actually. Loathe it entirely.

 

Welcome to the PvP forums. Where PvE players impose their tears on a completely separate part of the community.

 

BRB I'm off to the crafting forums to complain about complexity.

[Torcer]

Its not politcal in any way, shape or form. Has nothing to do with politics and everything to do with whiners thinking they are entitled to get something for LOSING. You want to get the winning share? Win. Simple. Cant win? Try harder, set a goal, something. Dont whine that you should get all the same rewards as the winner. That makes you sound like a little ***** with entitlement issues.

 

Your argument is entirely beside the point. A proper PvP game will incentivize 1) Participation, 2) Individual Achievement, and 3) Winning (Team Achievement). Improper incentives in any one area, imbalances the game. If you don’t create an incentive to participate, then it decreases the number of people who will PvP, resulting in fewer people to compete against, and diminishing population eventually undermines PvP itself. If you don’t incentivize individual achievement, then people won’t try as hard as they could (e.g., the AFK problem), and if you don’t incentivize winning (Team Achievement), then people won’t play together as a team to win.

 

Your Analogy to life and entitlement is poor because people play games to have fun, which self evidentially different from Life. People will not participate if it’s not fun, and receiving no, or nominal reward for 15 minutes of time investment isn’t fun. There are literally no posters arguing that you should not be rewarded for Winning, no reasonable person feels entitled to the same rewards for losing as winning. What people are arguing is that they should be rewarded for the time they invested by participating. If participation is not rewarded, then fewer people will participate and more people will quit WZs the moment they believe they will lose.

 

BioWare has literally created an incentive for PvPers to quit Warzones, and although you don’t seem to have considered it, this decreased competition undermines the PvP experience of “winners” such as yourself, eventually harming the long term viability of PvP. Longer Ques, less competition and less illusion of achievement. The size of your ePeen only matters if there are other people around to see it.

Edited April 13, 2012 by Torcer

[DarthPunitor]

lets see, in various posts, I've seen the following:

 

1) you deserve to get destroyed over and over if you have crappy gear compared to those that "earned" it already

 

2) losing (particularly getting destroyed) gets you no or almost no progress towards getting new gear.

 

 

ok now, can anybody besides me spot the catch-22 here? Why isn't this obvious to everyone?

 

Recruit gear should give you a fighting chance.

[DarthPunitor]

So far I agree with dirtyboxer. Since when did this forum fill with a bunch of *******? I mean, really? Oh wait, I forgot this thread was started by a pve'er who is failing at pvp...

 

With out a doubt those who win should get more rewards than those who lose. Thats common sense and if you dont agree on that then you shouldnt be playing anything like pvp, or anything competitive at all. You wont even be able to handle competitive knitting.

 

Now, that aside, lets look at the purpose of getting gear in the first place. I can only speak for myself, but i personally believe the look of the recruit gear (for the marauder atleast), looks awesome and I am not compelled to get geared beyond this set for aesthetic reasons. THE ONLY reason I would continue up the ranks of gear is so that I can be more effective in pvp, and thus have more fun in pvp. PVP GEAR IS FOR PVPERS.

 

As far as commendations go, I've averaged about 80 commendations in the 10 matches I played since 1.2 came out. Once battlemaster chest piece costs 1400 commendations. This means that I will need to play roughly 17 and a half games, and perform at the top of my game for them all, to get once piece of bm gear. Personally, I do agree that this is a hell of a grind. The focus should not be on grinding for gear (if i wanted to do that id play pve), but rather on enjoying pvp for the sake of pvp.

 

To address consistent losers, the only time I ever "consistently" lost in pvp is when i was pugging it against premades. In anything competitive, organized teams will always trump pugs. (except in rare exceptions, of course. I had ONE game where this certain guild managed to get 8 members into the wz with 3 healers, and our pug team destroyed them ending in a 3 cap. it was really sad).

 

If you dont like it, dont expect to do well. It would be like mongolia declaring war on china, who would expect mongolia to win?

 

Now, I will conclude by saying that losers should have the opportunity to get geared as well. Granted, it should take longer for them, but i dont believe pvp should be weighted in favor of who ever is better geared.

[WilsonFett]

How many *********** times do I have to say it? This *wasn't* fun.

 

And I wont keep playing this game if it continues to be so miserable.

 

You've admitted it already that you don't like PVP. So, don't PVP anymore. If your only motivation to PVP is for a specific gear shell, well like another poster said, "You're doing it wrong."

[WilsonFett]

The stats on the recruit gear are pretty horrible. It has no set bonus, and you cannot change the mod out. You end up with around 14khp with the full set, how is that 'competitive' against players in BM gear?

 

Its better than coming in as a fresh 50 with 11-12k hps isn't it? Oh wait, you're the guy who wants the full highend gear without putting any time or effort at all into it...I see where you are coming from *rolls eyes*

[RelXikBri]

Its better than coming in as a fresh 50 with 11-12k hps isn't it? Oh wait, you're the guy who wants the full highend gear without putting any time or effort at all into it...I see where you are coming from *rolls eyes*

 

When did anyone say that? At all?

 

I don't mind that it's a grind for gear - I mind that its an utterly stupid grind if you're forced to que against premades. At 100ish coms, its still 14 games for a weapon/chestpiece - that's 15-20 minutes per game. 280 minutes = 4.6ish hours (unless I'm blatantly bad at math, which I am) for a piece.

 

I spent over 9 hours getting a single piece of gear WITH doing the daily and weekly.

 

NINE hours.

 

I don't expect to be handed full BM, even though, as I've said, I'm just doing it for the item shell.

 

But I sure as hell don't want to spend 40 hours - almost TWO solid days of game-time (on a working schedule) to get my 5 items.

 

And no, I'm not doing it wrong. If I decide that in a lore-like sense I enjoy the look of the Marauder PVP gear over that of the ridiculously ugly PVE gear then thats my choice.

Edited April 13, 2012 by RelXikBri

[Anbokr]

Regular warzones need to have relatively decent rewards for time invested. Ranked pvp can become 80-100% for the winner 0-20% for the loser--but there needs to be an avenue for the casual dude who PvPs 1 hour a day (and doesn't have the reaction time of a ninja) to grind some gear, and that needs to be regular warzones. Edited April 13, 2012 by Anbokr

[RelXikBri]

62 coms for a WIN in a voidstar.

 

Gee awesome. Only 40 below a loss from 1.1.

[dirtyboxer]

I average 80-90 per win... and 30-50 per loss. Fair enough imo.

[ReiKai]

Either I suffered a glitch, or something changed. Spent 15min or so in the Battle For Alderaan. Team gets beaten pretty badly. And to show for it all I got...Nothing. No commendations, no experience, no credits. Nothing. Completely nothing for the entire warzone.

 

Now, I'm not a huge PvP'er. It's not the most enjoyable aspect of SWTOR for me. But I still engage in it because, let's face it, the gear is spiffy. However, if it has come down to not earning anything on a Loss, then what incentive is there to even participate? There's never any guarantee of Winning, even with a premade group. And if losing means you spent the last 10-20min in there, fighting, dying and getting ganked by half a dozen other players, and have Nothing to show for it...then I don't feel like I'd want to keep doing Warzones.

[Xienive]

I was very much so looking forward to 1.2, I thought it would be great and came in with a positive attitude. Honestly tho, the only thing I like to come from it at all is being able to customize my appearance with mods and color matching (altho even then I am losing out on my WZ gear set bonus...)

 

I had more fun doing dailies and WZ's for commedations and valor to earn my BM gear wrather than just get it, I had more fun before other classes were nerfed (I am a Shadow) I had more fun with the old medal system, I don't like the new WZ objective altho the map is cool looking.

 

I am never one to say stuff like this, but I really did have a lot more fun PVP'ing before this update and wish they would roll it back to before 1.2 for all things PVP.

[AinuKvasir]

Regular warzones need to have relatively decent rewards for time invested. Ranked pvp can become 80-100% for the winner 0-20% for the loser--but there needs to be an avenue for the casual dude who PvPs 1 hour a day (and doesn't have the reaction time of a ninja) to grind some gear, and that needs to be regular warzones.

 

 

Being someone who likes to PVP but isn't terribly good at it, I totally agree with this.

 

Additionally, I'd like to offer more anecdotal evidence that early-level PVP is TERRIBLE, and PVP for healers is also pretty bad. Granted, my experience with both of these were in conjunction with one another, so perhaps that is part of the problem, but this is making me seriously consider abandoning a character I created specifically to be a PVP healer.

 

I've gone through the story on each side at least once, so I thought doing PVP up to 50 and then going back for the class story quests would be a good time. But the requirement to get 3 medals as a low-leveled healer is really quite difficult, besides the fact that losses often net nothing anyhow.

 

I don't want to be given gear, but the rewards for losses need to be seriously buffed (and heck, go ahead and buff the winning rewards too -- just make it worth my time to try).

[Subatia]

Either I suffered a glitch, or something changed. Spent 15min or so in the Battle For Alderaan. Team gets beaten pretty badly. And to show for it all I got...Nothing. No commendations, no experience, no credits. Nothing. Completely nothing for the entire warzone.

 

Now, I'm not a huge PvP'er. It's not the most enjoyable aspect of SWTOR for me. But I still engage in it because, let's face it, the gear is spiffy. However, if it has come down to not earning anything on a Loss, then what incentive is there to even participate? There's never any guarantee of Winning, even with a premade group. And if losing means you spent the last 10-20min in there, fighting, dying and getting ganked by half a dozen other players, and have Nothing to show for it...then I don't feel like I'd want to keep doing Warzones.

 

You have to get 3 medals to get credit for any commendations.

 

You must've worked pretty hard to manage to not get 3 medals.

[wessik]

Another win, 11 medals this time due to a Dauntless VI - Got 80 coms. /sigh

 

what's wrong with 80 comms?

[JMCH]

You must've worked pretty hard to manage to not get 3 medals.

You can work VERY hard against some high rank full BM players with your mixed champ/cent stuffed heal merc (you gain nothing from Recruit except implants which are a good bit better than Centurion), interrupt 6 of them trying very hard to tag a cannon with your mates and die so quickly you don't even earn the 1k def medal, win the match and earn absolutely nothing.

 

Sure, someone never playing in a pickup group won't encounter this kind of win... and I can assure you it's just insulting.

Edited April 14, 2012 by JMCH

[justntrue]

I'm pretty pissed too.

 

I'm all fr fair play, but every match I played was so badly dominated by the imps that it wasn't even remotely fun.

 

I am not a poor player. At 45, I have 99% of my toolset, I'm usually the top geared player every game with between 13 and 14k HP, I play my vanguard to within exactly the expectation that the devlopers had in mind for a vanguard. I guard, I taunt, I reduce damage on my team mates. I pull out big crits on key targets and produce reasonable DPS while maintaining health and utility throughout gameplay.

 

I had a few games today, even in losses, with 12-15 medals, and at least three games where I was by far and away the leader in kill:death ratio, medals, objectives, damage, and protection.

 

But, those were three games out of about 10.

 

And, the others, while I still played as hard as I normally do, were a complete wash.

 

The imperials used explois to cap THROUGH damage in voidstar, used runspeed exploits... I saw guys running for over 90 seconds straight at high speed (yes, I'm sure you can use the buff, and the sprint, but that will last no more than about 24-30 seconds.)

 

Add to the exploits, almost every team was premade, with many same guilds and while I have no problem losing to a premade (I don't know where the hell my guildmates were today), I have a problem with the HUGE disparity that accompanies a premade vs a PUG.

 

I counted no less than 3 republic players under level 20 (14-19) in EVERY SINGLE GAME. the remaining players were between 20 and 30 primarily, with occasionally 3-4 in the 30-49 range (me included).

 

In the vast majority of te games I played today, the distinction on the scoreboard was so incredibly skewed towards imperial that it actually mad me want to quit. And I really like this game.

 

The players I was normally teamed with were so far below a level that could be considered competitive that it was literally like playing 5 on 8 or 4 on 8 EVERY single game.

 

There NEEDS to be a third bracket, or something, and, the commendations MUST be changed. In the 10 games I played today I earned 580 commendations. Thats the lowest 10 game total I've ever had in the entire time I've played star wars, to boot, I did not even complete a full valor level, which, for m is almost unheard of... I play every day to cap my valor, which usually occurs in 5-8 games, but, in 10 games today I got 6k valor, and am still only 80%to level 45.

 

I'm pretty pissed off. I don't mind losing, but this was like losing, and someone coming along and saying **** you, we actually don't care how good YOU are, you side makes you suck.

 

Add to that the 3 or 4 games I backfilled deep into a resounding loss, and it really make me realize there must be a better game to play out there, or, BW had better try to equilibrate the factions/levels, skill or soemthing.

Edited April 14, 2012 by justntrue

[wessik]

Welcome to the PvP forums. Where PvE players impose their tears on a completely separate part of the community.

 

BRB I'm off to the crafting forums to complain about complexity.

 

lol nice one