Aussiedroid Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Well I disagree with most of you on this thread. This game needs longer term goals and setting the bar high in credits for these unlocks means you have to work towards opening them up. It makes it a real challenge and hard decision on what you want to buy first and may mean you cannot get everything for months or maybe a year. Now thats a step in the right direction! Credits are not hard to earn. Generally a full run of dailies pre 1.2 still earned ~300k or so in rewards .. takes a couple of hours .. thats not counting earnings from GTN, warzones etc you may play. It wont take that long to get these, infact I think the amounts could have been set higher IMO. Getting Legacy up simply gives you the access to these special features then you need to buy it ... I think thats the best idea. Means new players dont immediately get the benefits that the others who have clocked the time get. If this wasnt the case, all we would do is grind levels across as many chars as possible, as quickly as possible to get our Legacy up. Everyone wants everything now... they want to be able to open it all simply because they have xx Legacy level and have it all as soon as 1.2 was released. They dont want to put in the time to progress ... this is a problem with the casual gaming community in my view and has a negative effect on game design thus far... this is a step back in the right direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HCGxKaLiBeR Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) ...this is a problem with the casual gaming community in my view and has a negative effect on game design thus far... the irony is im a hardcore player that I took things too seroiusly when Im fighting with NPCs (rotations, buffs, etc). After a full run on Ilum and i just couldnt do anymore on my other 2 lvl 50s... Edited April 13, 2012 by HCGxKaLiBeR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darklord_Varus Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) I'm personally glad it's more of a long term goal to get all the legacy stuff. I don't get why some of you want everyone to have everything in a blink of an eye. But then again I like the grind & not everyone does. Edited April 13, 2012 by Darklord_Varus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olounda Posted April 13, 2012 Author Share Posted April 13, 2012 Credits are not hard to earn. Generally a full run of dailies pre 1.2 still earned ~300k or so in rewards .. takes a couple of hours .. thats not counting earnings from GTN, warzones etc you may play. It wont take that long to get these, infact I think the amounts could have been set higher IMO. Not meaning to be mean or trolling, but seriously, talk to me when you have a full time job, school, and a family and you barely get a couple hours a night to play. The last thing you wanna do for those to hours is ditch your guildmates and run dailies. I have paid bioware my 15 dollars a month of my real, hard earned money, and invested hours into this game to achieve these unlocks that they promised i could have earned by investing those hours and that real money into them, only to have them be idiots and change their mind on a whim. For me, if you are going to introduce legacy benefits like this, just create a cash shop so that you aren't funding credit farmers for your stupid decisions. (and no, i dont condone cash shops). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidpop Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Well I disagree with most of you on this thread. This game needs longer term goals and setting the bar high in credits for these unlocks means you have to work towards opening them up. It makes it a real challenge and hard decision on what you want to buy first and may mean you cannot get everything for months or maybe a year. Now thats a step in the right direction! The key word here is work, i dont work in games, i do that every day from 9 to 5 in the real world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidpop Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Not meaning to be mean or trolling, but seriously, talk to me when you have a full time job, school, and a family and you barely get a couple hours a night to play. The last thing you wanna do for those to hours is ditch your guildmates and run dailies. I have paid bioware my 15 dollars a month of my real, hard earned money, and invested hours into this game to achieve these unlocks that they promised i could have earned by investing those hours and that real money into them, only to have them be idiots and change their mind on a whim. For me, if you are going to introduce legacy benefits like this, just create a cash shop so that you aren't funding credit farmers for your stupid decisions. (and no, i dont condone cash shops). Agred, i dont get why people would come home from work, do what you gotta do eat etc., then log into a game, and work, becaue that is what doing dailys feel like. Just on my real job i atleast get paid real money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CelCawdro Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 While I'm usually all for credit sinks, particularly for things like this, I have to admit that this is the first time in my MMO career that it ever occurred to me to buy "gold." I never would, of course. But a credit grind of this magnitude just seems to contrary to the spirit of SW:TOR. I fell in love with this game precisely because the grind was finally gone. And I was thankful. I also realize that the grind is necessary for some areas, but I would be all for having stricter legacy requirements (as legacy is increased by any activity - you can do what is fun to you) if it meant a lack of daily/crafting/AH grinding. SW:TOR made a name for itself because it did away with the grind. And now it's doubling up on the grind for this system. It just seems so contradictory. Credit sinks are necessary, sure. This is just a very odd and off-putting place to have them, granted that a lot of us have been playing for four months to have the option to "buy" what we've earned. Sure, it sounds like a need for instant gratification because we already have our legacy levels, but if legacy had been in at release... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serbegorn Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Ok guys, the word Legacy should be replaced with the word Luxury. That's exactly what they are. None of them are necessary, hell none of them are even particularly useful! They are all a complete waste of credits. BW even admitted it when they said they are intended as a money sink. Please explain to me why in the hell a neutral GTN on your ship is appealing? Read up on these things, they are all completely and totally worthless. Stop vying for them already. Sheesh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotDonnaReed Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 The whole Legacy thing is very disappointing. My Legacy level is 25, and the only thing I got today that was in any way interesting to me was the ability to dance with my companion. Everything else costs a ridiculous amount of credits that I no longer have because I spent them making stims for our raids and purchasing a guild bank. So now, I get nothing for 25 Legacy levels. It feels wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CelCawdro Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 The whole Legacy thing is very disappointing. My Legacy level is 25, and the only thing I got today that was in any way interesting to me was the ability to dance with my companion. Everything else costs a ridiculous amount of credits that I no longer have because I spent them making stims for our raids and purchasing a guild bank. So now, I get nothing for 25 Legacy levels. It feels wrong. Too true. It really reminds me of owning a keep in WAR - a game many of SW:TOR's development team was a part of. You actually paid gold to hold a keep. You were actually punished for claiming it rather than rewarded. It was defended as a gold sink, but it was one that was never needed in the first place. Credit sinks are fine, but they need to be used in different places. And they need to be credit sinks for the sake of credit sinks - they shouldn't be attached to another grind making the former seemingly moot. Again, this concern seems like a demand for instant gratification, but truth be told, most of us have been working on this grind since before early access was over. And have very little to show for it. This problem will become more apparent as new blood comes to the game and realizing that, after weeks of leveling their legacy, it was ultimately pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gradivus Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 They either miscommunicated or lied. They tend to do them both a lot. A lot of things change during testing - it's not lieing. There are only two options - either developers say nothing until the feature is 100% ready, meaning on the live servers, or they announce planned features and correct the announcments after they see how the feature performs in testing. People on game forums are always in uproar about both approaches. Luckely, most developes are intelligent enough not to give a damn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaunshar Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Would you prefer having to achieve legacy level 30, 40 or 50? The system is built in a way that basically intends to give legacy levels no purpose. They are automatically achieved by just playing. Its, in its purest form, just free handouts for casual players with 1 lvl 50 toon. If they didnt ask for credits, and handed out everything at legacy level 15 (as you guys seem to propose or ask for) they might as well not have bothered: it would be wasted development time, since it doesnt prolong game time in the least However, if legacy levels actually MEANT something, the forums would be ablaze with whinethreads from the proverbial lvl 50 casual, just dinged, who now feels he is "behind" all of us who play since headstart and achieved legacy levels of 35+ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prismatico Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) Would you prefer having to achieve legacy level 30, 40 or 50? The system is built in a way that basically intends to give legacy levels no purpose. They are automatically achieved by just playing. Its, in its purest form, just free handouts for casual players with 1 lvl 50 toon. If they didnt ask for credits, and handed out everything at legacy level 15 (as you guys seem to propose or ask for) they might as well not have bothered: it would be wasted development time, since it doesnt prolong game time in the least However, if legacy levels actually MEANT something, the forums would be ablaze with whinethreads from the proverbial lvl 50 casual, just dinged, who now feels he is "behind" all of us who play since headstart and achieved legacy levels of 35+ Who said 15? They have 50 levels they could fill out and I'd be fine if they increased the experience required (again) since they already nerfed 50 rest xp and warzone xp yesterday. And how are they handouts? Casuals aren't the ones doing dailies every day... Edited April 13, 2012 by Prismatico Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthSpuds Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 I would like to hear the reasoning from the dev's behind why they thought this was a brilliant course of action... Devs and reasoning in the same sentence. LOL. All The Best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobNightfall Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 At first they said either/or and were perfectly clear on that. Then last week during the q&A they changed their tune. They either miscommunicated or lied. They tend to do them both a lot. Yep, this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConradLionhart Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 I feel they may have had a missed opportunity with ship upgrades for the legacy system. They should have done more than just add small things on your ship like the ship droid, mailbox, neutral GTN. They should add feature like a research lab to improve your Reverse Engineer's chances by 5%. And don't say "unlock". Use the word "construct". Construct your research lab for 2 million credits sounds better than "unlocking" it for 2 million credits. Introduce a cutscene showing that the research lab is being constructed slowly. Or even a manufacturing room to further speed up your crafting and improve your manufacturing critical. And once it is constructed, any companion that you send to craft something will work in the manufacturing room, interacting with the appliances on the working table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DalrisThane Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) Deleted. No point. Everyone is TLDR these days. +See Sig. Edited March 31, 2013 by DalrisThane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farho Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 So, I read on the dev tracker that georg said that the legacy unlocks would be available for credits, for for reaching the level. If that is the case, they why do I still have to pay money that I dont have to get the repair droid on my ship? Its upsetting to me that I have 2 level 50's, and a 3rd toon on its way, and you want an insane amount of credits for me to get something that I"ve already worked so hard for, and spent so much time into getting. So again georg, why you want my monies so bad for something my legacy (time invested) should have unlocked? you buy the ship upgrades once. not for each char. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiachsidhe Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 We need a credit sink. Credits are easy to come by and theres not much to buy with them ay 50. We have them. Operation repair bills, expensive speeders, crafting missions, social gear, etc. You're right, we need cash sinks, but we don't need every god damn thing to be one, and they don't need to be this huge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olounda Posted April 13, 2012 Author Share Posted April 13, 2012 you buy the ship upgrades once. not for each char. Read Harder. Devs said either credits OR legacy unlock. not both. according to their initial statement, i shoudn't have to spend a single credit to unlock something that i invested 4 months into the game for. I agree that this is a huge credit sink, when there are others around there. Anyone who ever ran ops prior to 1.2 realizes that even only a few wipes in the run can cost you 50-100k. For a casual player who crafts, only comes on for a couple pvp warzones, and to do operations, 50-100k credits is A LOT just for a stinking repair bill. Now i know that they cut the repair bill in half with this other patch, but put another money sink elsewhere, not on a legacy that I spent 4 months playing your game to get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xahrackus Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 The internets sure didnt tell me the prices of legacy things 2 weeks before the patch. I sure didnt know that I should have the credits asked of me. I never looked at what was good at gredit farming, and I sure didnt spend....3 hours of game time making 10 million credits. and its a good thing I never did any of these things, cause lord knows I would rather complain on the forums about how unprepared for a content patch I was ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clintcasey Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 I have to say that when I read it, there was a clear line that stated that you would EITHER need the required Legacy level OR the credits, NOT both. This appears to have been a change since that interview. I see the logic of the credit sinks and agree they are needed, but there is disparity between what we were told and what we now have. No, actually if you watched the guild summit videos, or read or watched the material that was out there prior to 1.2 coming out they very clearly said that they were intending to have some rewards that required both credits and legacy level to unlock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esron Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 honestly with 2 lvl 50 chars and alot of alts on the side atm, i dont really care about the credits thats going to be needed, my server has a low pop id rather they fixed that with a merge so i could start doing some ops and some fp´s, in the meantime, i just look at the legacy money sink as a way to keep me doing something in the game other than just doing the REALLY boring dailys or WZ´s over and over until i nearly blew my brains out just from getting so bored over the same rumble each day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotDonnaReed Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 We have them. Operation repair bills, expensive speeders, crafting missions, social gear, etc. You're right, we need cash sinks, but we don't need every gosh darn thing to be one, and they don't need to be this huge. Yeah I agree with this guy. I run dailies several times a week, and I'm perpetually poor, thanks to repair bills and crafting missions. I ran dailies for 12 days straight so I could buy one of the "car" speeders before they got discontinued, and now I'm down to like 20k credits. There are PLENTY of credit sinks in this game. They don't need to shake us down for everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiachsidhe Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Introduce yourself to the concept of a time sink. A crucial aspect of any MMO. 1. It's a cash sink, not a time sink. 2. You generally want either type of sink to be fun, or at least reasonable. 3. People already put the time into getting the Legacy level. There's your time sink. 4. Just because mmorpgs feature many time/cash sinks, doesn't mean EVERYTHING needs to be one. 5. Sinks can be more enjoyable than slapping a huge price tag on something. That's the laziest form of cash sink possible. Rather than coming up with interesting, or enjoyable things to blow money on, like pazaac or tauntaun races, arcades with mini-games that cost money, housing, cosmetic clothing that players can craft, etc. Bioware, as usual, took the easy, joyless, minimal effort way out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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