Are any of the pre-patch and post-patch people the same people? Possibly, but without proof of any specific individuals doing so, what exactly are you rolling your eyes at? Different people want different things? That's not a paradox.

I would say an experience nerf is significant enough to be there, though. Obviously we don't need to know all of the tweaks and improvements made, but something like this happens in a lot of MMO's since it's going to be negative either way. Let's say they mention it, so in addition to people who disapprove, people who otherwise didn't care or wouldn't have noticed might be up in arms, or they can avoid most negativity and let a minority discover it for themselves and possibly complain in general chat or the forums for a bit and then move on. The latter (stealth nerf) is safer, so yeah, I don't agree with your assumption as justification, as people will get mad no matter what. Besides, it would take like 8 words to cover this: Experience rewards from companion quests have been reduced.

I hope they stop here with the experience nerfs, I already feel like I shouldn't bother with space missions anymore (or wait, in 1.3 we can buy back the original rates...).

They're going to need to revamp that family tree UI if they do get use more slots anytime soon...but we need that anyway since it's awkward and doesn't fit (on-screen) many combinations of 8 characters as it is.

Obviously I knew about rested XP on 50's or else I wouldn't be commenting on the stealth nerf. All I was trying to say was that what you did doesn't work the same way anymore since they nerfed a bunch of things, not that you're wrong to say it (although it is technically inaccurate now) or that you exploited anything like some others did. I felt it needed clarification that even though you did it legitimately, the actual process would take a lot longer now...at least twice as long due to no rested XP, fewer gains from some things, and higher requirements Legacy 20+. Make sense?

You're technically playing PVP there. PVP in this game just got nerfed in terms of credits, and it wasn't really that fast prior to 1.2... Now, if you spent 200 hours playing the same 5-10 single player missions every day, the analogy would make more sense. Games are repetitive, this is true, but while fun is subjective there is a major difference between what kind of things are done repetitively. There is always plenty of variation, adversity, and surprises offered by PVP, even in this game, but none of that applies to PVE dailies. I don't think a lot of us want these things because others have them, it's more because they're not even something that affects what other players can see or PVP. So again, not really an accurate comparison.

Out of curiosity, how does one make it fun when so few people want to group? You say it depends who you are but I'm really curious as to how it's anything more than in-game work.

I'm saying they greatly increased the effort required to level Legacy. It wasn't in the patch notes as far as I can tell but rest XP resets on 50's now by default, meaning it does not apply to Legacy XP. Also, you get less from space/warzones/flashpoints (this was in the notes) so that also means less Legacy XP. In other words, your suggestions aren't that helpful considering they just nerfed the rates a ton.

Yeah, I don't get why anyone is sharing GTN success stories at this point...I'm on an above average server and the GTN is practically dead. These credit sinks only serve to hurt the economy more, but they were too paranoid about a vocal minority complaining that the majority is getting screwed. Even if we grind the stuff out, what's the point of the neutral GTN when even the faction GTN's are dead on most servers?

Legacy Level 20, not character level 20. Legacy levels are not easy for casuals to earn and neither are credits since I personally don't see grinding (which is not easy for people trying to play for fun) as a major reason why casuals play a game like this, yet these novelty features seem intended for them. It's safe to say that the majority of subscribers do not play every day, nor do they intend to repeat PVE quests over and over again no matter how long it might take (1-2 hours). Sure, some stuff needs to be rare, but we're talking about convenience things that other players never see, so it's not like these are vanity items to help you stand out. It is work, and while some have a point that not everything should be given for free, I beg to differ regarding free since Bioware put a sensible unlock system in place that takes a lot of time (and can be approached in far more effective/diverse ways compared to earning credits) with earning Legacy experience. It seemed perfect to me, you level up enough you get an easier time the next time you level up. After 30 or so Legacy levels you get all of these ship bonuses minus the GTN (that's how it sounded at the Guild Summit), with more things on the way in future updates. It sounded great back then. Anyway, I didn't specifically say that you were one of the elitists, but it IS condescending what you said, and that isn't right either when you offered little to no actual argument on the matter.

What is lazy about wanting Legacy levels to mean something? No casual has higher than the 20's by now (constantly doing dailies, HM flashpoints, PVP before it was nerfed in 1.2, etc. is not casual) and as I've been suggesting several times they easily could have tweaked the experience needed and I bet far less people would be complaining. Sure, some still would, but at least we'd be able to enjoy our alts while still making progress and not gimping ourselves while leveling. It's all so counterproductive when the original way it was worded sounded like a great idea. People playing one character could buy almost everything, and everyone taking advantage of Legacy could level up and eventually earn convenience and novelty bonuses. Two paths, both require grinding but of different types...most people would be happy. That's what I think, at least. Right now, few people are happy, and others are using this situation as a way to either be elitist or condescending, which really isn't a good sign of this whole feature being too popular.

Why do so many people use the "you complain" thing when it's almost never the same people who said what you're using against them? Plenty of people had goals, or still have them...that doesn't mean they're suddenly now whining about this, or if they are, what does that matter? This isn't content, it's convenience and novelty stuff that satisfies a minority, when these unlocks are probably better suited for casuals who might even be willing to pay real money for them to enhance their experience (and they will, from farmers).

They did nerf experience from warzones, flashpoints, and from space missions, it's in the patch notes (you also can't do the popular fast Boarding Run farming anymore). They intend to get you to pay for more Legacy unlocks later to get the original rates, and perhaps slightly better ones. If you reroll it's not to buy Legacy stuff, you don't get really good credits until 40+ really and by then it's hardly an alt but another workhorse with a variety (in my opinion) of things worth buying. Having 8 characters means nothing when you still have to put the tedious grind in strictly devoted to credits (that can be spent on many other things, despite the claims of others), which is all that people are trying to say. It's embarrassing that people like you are actually insinuating that anyone sucks over this.

Rest experience (unless it's a bug) no longer works for 50's, and they also nerfed space/warzone/flashpoint XP so your suggestions aren't as easy as they were prior to 1.2...in fact they're like 2-3 times as long now in addition to the already increased rates for 20+ from back in January.

So you don't think it takes a long time to get higher legacy levels (which could have easily been adjusted again)? Why do you guys have to exaggerate and act like there isn't a way to balance it out better than only satisfying the people that can tolerate daily grinding? Nobody is getting to max Legacy level in 2 weeks; not even close. Meanwhile, experience has been nerfed for 50's and for those who stick to PVP or space missions...until they buy the Legacy perks whenever 1.3 comes around. It just makes more sense to me that your actual Legacy would affect what you get to use, not your legacy plus your endurance runs. That's the vibe they gave off when they revealed things at the summit, that players who stuck to one character could purchase things while others who stuck to their Legacy and leveled it a ton would get the majority of the benefits.

Who said 15? They have 50 levels they could fill out and I'd be fine if they increased the experience required (again) since they already nerfed 50 rest xp and warzone xp yesterday. And how are they handouts? Casuals aren't the ones doing dailies every day...

I'd rather they double or even triple the XP required to get Legacy levels. At least that way I can still make progress to gaining access while playing as family members and allies. And actually, they did in a way, didn't they? My rest XP disappears on my 50's now, so it's technically twice as long to get Legacy XP as a 50 now.

The difference here is that they are trying to encourage people to play not just one, but many alts. Sure, it's easy to grind dailies which is tedious but effective and you could probably buy one expensive thing a week, but you're spending all your time only on a high level, not the alts they want us to enjoy. Grind for upper tier PVE/PVP gear, crafting, other MMO staples, fine. But the one thing that seems ideal to enhance the experience for casuals/addicts is only suited for people willing to grind. Plus, they tweaked experience earned from warzones and space missions in order to have you purchase the original rates again later (1.3).

Are you Legacy 50? Not many are, and I don't see why they couldn't gate it so you'd get at least the base reward (say, rocket boots) at a high Legacy level (30+).

Yeah, I only have room to make 2 new characters on my main server with 1.2, the rest are too far ahead for me to be willing to reroll. I'm sure it's not really a high priority right now until transfers are fully tested and implemented, though.

It's up to you if you want things to retroactively apply. I always change my mind on some things so I'm fine with doing that to be satisfied overall, I just hope we get transfers and more character slots soon enough so that my interest isn't lost in the whole thing.

Then should Chiss not be in the game?

Well, I wasn't only responding to you (as suggested was in reference to other people), sorry for the confusion there...but at the same time, why back to 0? It's not like you only used one character to level your Legacy, so if you want to move an alt that would screw up your whole original Legacy. We also don't know if they keep track of your Legacy experience, especially since they've already adjusted the values per level since launch. Meanwhile, because they gated things with credits and restricted most of the perks to solo play I see no reason why it'd be an issue to let people directly "copy" their Legacy to multiple servers by transferring characters. It seems more convenient, easier, and most sensible to the player to just give them their highest Legacy. After all, we'll need to farm credits (which can help gain Legacy experience if done certain ways) to get the higher benefits no matter what.

If we are able to transfer multiple characters and it added up as suggested then that's basically a shortcut to max Legacy (not that it means much since you have to pay for most stuff in addition to unlocking it).

I'm pretty sure this has been done with every class by now. First I read was Jedi Knight. A waste of time, really, but not really more so than anyone playing a game like this for whatever reason we do.