What was so bad about SWG?

[SuperOrcaSix]

SWG was the game that created all others and surpassed everything previous. From Beta to December 2011 it was my personal second life... In the beginning there were no speeders, houses, no space, just alot of running from everything "red" and time consuming. At launch there was what 26 different professions where one could have 2 to choose from. And the classes gave different skills. Buggy, lag, and constant patching. After things settled down the devs made an error that changed the game with combat upgrade causing such an uproar that folks left in droves. Those that remained had to deal with the deathknell of NGE which argueably ended SWG's rein as the best MMO supplanted by WoW (a cookie cutter of SWG) but with devs that listened to their subscribers. SWG had superior crafting, space pvp where you could bring friends on your ship to man turrets, and ship controls. I was a droid engineer and a 6 time ace pilot. I did the ground game too because the planets were abundant and with constant action. At least on the server I played (Bloodfin). I miss my bunker and the 2k in items I stored mainly crafting components. I had vendors and had close to a billion credits when the game shutdown. No disrespect to those who enjoy WoW, but WoW was and never will be SWG. As someone previously said, SWTOR is a game where SWG was a virtual world. That sums up my experience.

[lordchimpanzee]

Running to a shuttle only to have it take off and leave you there cursing for 10 minutes. Or laugh hysterically like a madmen. Whatever mood you were in at the time of that travesty.

[TalkingDinosaur]

Browsing the forums, I've noticed the name SWG (Star wars Galaxies) pop up various times during a discussion - and it's usually described as a terrible title when that happens.

 

Since I never got to play the game, I had to rely on my research (skimming through Wookiepedia's page on the game) to learn about it. Turns out it had quite a few interesting features, such as housing and player-built cities, bounty hunting, diverse space activities and the feature that impressed me the most, a third-person shooter-ish combat.

 

My question here is: why is SWG considered such a sub-par game? Was it the new features that scared off players? Was it poor implementation of these features?

 

Anyway, thanks on advance.

Please do more research than just the wookiepedia site. Look up videos etc. I can say right now in your head you think player housing is a good idea. Now picture Tatooine as the suburb of Cairo.

Edited April 12, 2012 by TalkingDinosaur

[Ecthaelion]

I couldnt have written it better myself, superb post.

 

I played Pre-CU, the CU came up on me pretty quick... I loved the game. It really was an original. Bugs? They were very few and far between in my experience. Quests, there were quests, on a par with what we are seeing in SWOTOR (again my opinion and my opinion is always right so you wanna flame, go ahead, you will still be wrong ). The crafting, the cities, the player politics, Space, the ships, the vehicles, you name it... It was simply fantastic. I was really hoping that SWOTOR would follow on and improve on SWG by implementing much that SWG had and of course improving. Alas, in my opion (see above) we have just a WoW game on steroids. Stille njoyable enough, but it lacks... Something... That SWG definitely had.

Seems player housing was a big issue to some who are writing here. I never had a prob with it. It was part of what SWG was. I guess it depended on what server you were on but I never got the feeling that planets were over crowded (I mostly played Bria).

The CU was NOT as bad as people made it out to be. It was just change. And a very slight one at that. It definitely improved the Jedi trail, it took away some of the wee crafting tricks etc but it DID even the game out. As a Pre-CU player I can state that the the Pre-CU populace cried and made a lot of noise about basically nothing. I did agree with was how badly the CU was implemented. Over night players lost a lot of armour etc that they had struggled to build, acquire, buy... The stats became useless and SOE did nothign to compensate them. Bad, bad, terrible Devs and project management. SOE customer care was woefully lacking.

The NGE... A joke... I stopped playing... Then I came back to it, played for a year or so then quit again. The NGE appealed to a... Well... Mostly immature kind of player. I do not mean that as a derogatory statement to the players per se, just the tone of the mature game went to a younger mind set with the intro of the NGE.

 

Bioware, you would truly be Gods of Gods if you could implement Space, Vehicles, Crafting, Houses, player Cities etc and bring back a few elements of SWG. But thank you for what you have given us.

 

SWG was a game that will live on in the minds of those who played it like a religion as a milestone in online gaming. The Grand Father of all, including **spits** WoW. (Yes I did play WoW for a few months... Hated it).

 

RIP SWG. Long live SWOTOR.

 

SWG was the game that created all others and surpassed everything previous. From Beta to December 2011 it was my personal second life... In the beginning there were no speeders, houses, no space, just alot of running from everything "red" and time consuming. At launch there was what 26 different professions where one could have 2 to choose from. And the classes gave different skills. Buggy, lag, and constant patching. After things settled down the devs made an error that changed the game with combat upgrade causing such an uproar that folks left in droves. Those that remained had to deal with the deathknell of NGE which argueably ended SWG's rein as the best MMO supplanted by WoW (a cookie cutter of SWG) but with devs that listened to their subscribers. SWG had superior crafting, space pvp where you could bring friends on your ship to man turrets, and ship controls. I was a droid engineer and a 6 time ace pilot. I did the ground game too because the planets were abundant and with constant action. At least on the server I played (Bloodfin). I miss my bunker and the 2k in items I stored mainly crafting components. I had vendors and had close to a billion credits when the game shutdown. No disrespect to those who enjoy WoW, but WoW was and never will be SWG. As someone previously said, SWTOR is a game where SWG was a virtual world. That sums up my experience.

Edited April 12, 2012 by Ecthaelion

[jarjarloves]

reading through it sounds like jarjarloves either played the game for a cpl days very early on or never played at all and is just answering from things he has read. I started playing SWG about a month before the first CU and continued until the last day. As with any game it had good points and bad points. I happened to like the game very much I didn't particularly like when they cut it down to a handful of proffesions and made it so easy to be a jedi. Player bounties was one of the things that made it fun, player housing and cities was another thing I really liked. Crafting was another good thing. Getting buffed by medics and entertainers was also a good thing imo as it encouraged socialization

 

ROFL. Yes because i gave a very detailed answer that disscussed many aspects of the game I must have only played it for a month. Unlike your incredibly vauge answer.

 

 

 

Sorry buddy SWG was my first MMO I played it for over a year and it was a horrible game. There is no way in hell a game like SWG could launch now and survive even 1 month.

[NasherUK]

SWG was a lot of very good ideas, all implimented badly :/

 

Though it had a good community and it was an open-ended, player driven game, which is how more MMOs should be.

Edited April 12, 2012 by NasherUK

[Arweniel]

Bioware, you would truly be Gods of Gods if you could implement Space, Vehicles, Crafting, Houses, player Cities etc and bring back a few elements of SWG. But thank you for what you have given us.

 

SWG was a game that will live on in the minds of those who played it like a religion as a milestone in online gaming. The Grand Father of all, including **spits** WoW.

 

RIP SWG. Long live SWOTOR.

 

This!

 

No matter if SWG was better or worse I still had more fun paying it than SWTOR, even after NGE Lots more things to do tbh. What I would really like will be the combination of both hehe

[allyse]

I played SWG from some time after launch to NGE where I quit the game.

 

Going to try to keep this short as people has to remember the fantasy and memories of a game has no root in real life. Just try to imagine Red Alert 1 and then load it up and see the almost dot-like graphics when in your head you probably saw a smooth game.

 

What I loved about SWG was the hunt for the Jedi, the holos that you could find to match and max out 3 professions (?) to become jedi. Those professions was random so you had to go through a lot of professions to get to your goal. The Jedi should be mystical and rare in my oppinion.

 

The other thing about SWG was the community was big with full cites, and never a problem finding groups. Only problem was that the whole game was a pointless grind and if I remember correctly it was no leveling before CU, just ranking your professions.

[Dirtnose]

It was a fantastic game. No other game like it. I miss it.

[Sniperrecon]

Where to start?

 

I started SWG in Beta and played till 6months till close (didn't want to remember SWG the way it was in those finial days , so i left right where i started the game , on Rori where new people actually started the game back then and where i spent the first 2 months of the game)

 

I played every profession in the game but shipmaster. I played so many hybrid combos it was crazy.

 

The thing i see poeple complain the most about in SWTOR...pvp. In SWG , pvp wasn't some log-in-que-up-and-pray-for-voidstar BS , it was log in , gear up , call friends , meet a doc in the city with 30 friends guarding each other and then go to the cantina and watch a ent. to get all the buffs. Then off to find the bad guys.

 

U might ask "Well , why is that so fun?" Its simple. It might take 30min to get to the fight , but the conversations that insued were awesome. The friendsships that became , life changing (to this day i keep in contact with my old guild mates via tweets/phone/emails) Those friendships were/are unforgettable.

 

The fights. Awesome. 1 fight lasted 18hrs over 9 planets involving over 300 people that i know of. U could invade cities and actually shut down their factories and cantina , med centers , harvisters , shuttle ports and so on for 24hrs if they didn't defend the cities. This created roaving Malita and "spies" at cantinas , spaceports and major entrances inot/onto planets (Lok SP anyone? Try loading into that one in the old days Overt)Not to mention Spes in the other factions guilds to read guild chat and so on.

 

The suns. Night and Day. U'll never find another game that actually had night and day on timers , just like IRL. U could actually watch the sun set and rise. Night turn to day right in front of ur eyes.

 

To many thats nada. To a man overseas away from their family and just wants to watch the sun set with his wife , but can't cause i'm on the other side of the world , its Naboo sunsets for me and my wife.

 

Who wants pvp when u get the real thing IRL (eventually , when i got out i became hooked. LOL) But back then , that was the thing. Game time like that with wife and family. Sun sets and actually taking my 5 yr old out to capture and tame a Rancor (he knew then he was for sure was beter that Luke cause he captured a Rancor and Luke didn't and was so happy) Taming that Rancor and actually having it help in pve/pvp.

 

Lvling up and knowing u needed help but none of ur buddies were online (due to time differences) and setting up a camp while thinking what to do (spawns were random and could accure anytime , anywhere and certain camps offered "shileds" that protected from npc's. Then out of nowhere someone wonders into ur camp and says "I saw the camp fire and wondered if u could help. My mount is dead and i've been walking for hours. I've died alot and no ents or medis anywhere on this planet. Can u help my black bars" (if u ever played , u'd understand black bars and broken items , something i think needs to be returned to games. A "cost of stupidity" if u will. MMO's aren't about solo play , its about the M's in MMO) Making a new friend for life (who i still keep in contact with)

 

Planting a house way out in the middle of nowhere and knowing that unless i lead someone there or i'm followed its gonna be a random person at my door. Even tho i got a house in a big city with all the features , knowing i got a place to just get away and chat or craft or ignore it all.

 

Jedi , way back then was exciting. No other game will u find that ur profession can get u on the boards and only ur profession. No other game will u find that u got to unequipt all ur Force powers/attacks from ur tool bar and unequipt ur saber and "look like everyone else" or ur gonna mess up and get hunted. It was exciting. Sneaking every bit of xp out of eyesight from anyone. Running around a corner and knowing that guy getting off the shuttle had ur bounty and brought friends...where do i go?...what do i do?....how will i get out of this one?...

 

The story was yours if u wanted. Your not gonna find that again. Not anytime soon untill "WOW'ers" stop complaining and the devs actually make the game the way they invisioned it. Its not WOW nor SWG and can't nor should it be even close. SWTOR needs to move away from those aspects and write its own page.

 

I could go on and on about all the good stuff from SWG , and those that didn't like it could go on and on. In the end , its up to that persons perspective of how good or bad it was. I never played a day in SWG that i didn't enjoy. There wasn't ever a "bad phase" in SWG that was made by the devs. Games go through cycles and SWG mades some questionable decisions , but in the end , it was by and large the best MMO of SW thats been. Will SWTOR be better? I think it can be , but just like in SWg , its up to the player base to make it what it will/can be.

 

The biggest thing i see as a problem? Everyone wants to solo everything , just like in WOW. Everyone wants end game content. But that shouldn't be the goal. It should be how far u can make this game go. End game is just that , u've run out of things to do and there is nothing left. I don't want to see that.( Yes , i know ur end game u speak of is high end content and thats out there already , and for a MMO , its always in the work for new content , so asking for end game content is like asking for the next patch)

 

U want end game content. Make ur own. Challenge urself to do something no one else has. For me , thats tons and tons of credits , getting a group together and doing every high end heroic out there in 1 night , beating every world boss in the game , doing all FP's on HM , doing every profession out there on both sides and lst but not least. Starting a big open world fight with at least 50 people across 3 planets that takes hours and isn't planed.

 

Open world pvp is where it should be , not this qued up crap. Random and totally crazy pvp. Chasing people into enemy bases and getting ur arse kicked by the npc's kinda pvp.

[Ecthaelion]

amen!

 

this!

 

No matter if swg was better or worse i still had more fun paying it than swtor, even after nge lots more things to do tbh. What i would really like will be the combination of both hehe

 

amen!

 

i played swg from some time after launch to nge where i quit the game.

 

Going to try to keep this short as people has to remember the fantasy and memories of a game has no root in real life. Just try to imagine red alert 1 and then load it up and see the almost dot-like graphics when in your head you probably saw a smooth game.

 

What i loved about swg was the hunt for the jedi, the holos that you could find to match and max out 3 professions (?) to become jedi. Those professions was random so you had to go through a lot of professions to get to your goal. The jedi should be mystical and rare in my oppinion.

 

The other thing about swg was the community was big with full cites, and never a problem finding groups. Only problem was that the whole game was a pointless grind and if i remember correctly it was no leveling before cu, just ranking your professions.

 

amen!

 

it was a fantastic game. No other game like it. I miss it.

[Ecthaelion]

Sniperreccon... Mate, you really did say it all right there. Superb. Thank you very much for kindling so many fond memories. I shared a lot of your experiences.

[TurokDarkstar]

Oh the CU wasn't that terrible. At least relative to the NGE, which turned a skill based MMO combat system into a first person shooter, and eventually into something resembling a playable game. The fact is, the biggest thing going for the game was it's sandboxy nature. You created your own content, you lived in the Star Wars universe. When the sandbox elements started being taken away (NGE), it enraged the players to the point of causing a mass exodus almost over night. It's reputation suffered with disgruntled players spreading the word, money was cut from development and eventually almost all the servers were ghost towns.

 

It became a free to play game with a monthly subscription. It's unfortunate, because of all the things it had going for it. There has never been a similar crafting system with such a grand scale. When you became a crafter, that was your profession. You weren't in the business of killing mobs, but making credits. The open world environment lead to some awesome world PvP that formed tight knit communities with thriving RP and PvP communities that lived side by side. And while some will point out how cluttered the planets were with houses.. Who cares? You had a little club house stationed on any planet you wanted, in any location you wanted, with an architecture of your choosing. A home filled with trophies and memorabilia representing years of accomplishments.

 

You can complain about it's bug's, idiot developers and PR scandals all you want. At the end of the day, it was a unique game that made you feel like a small, small part of a much larger universe. That's not rose-colored glasses talk, it's just what it was. Hell, if that game came out again with slightly updated graphics, a competent dev team, and Lucas Arts wasn't pulling the strings -- I'd leave Swtor in a second without ever looking back. NGE or not.

 

I miss my sandbox. Oh well, we'll see where Swtor takes us.

Edited April 12, 2012 by TurokDarkstar

[Mordivius]

SWG was, for me, both incredible and terrible at the same time.

 

The good:

Community - in no other MMO I've ever tried, has there been social hubs in the same sense as in SWG, giving the opportunity to really get to know people.

 

Personalization - You had so much control over your appearance that it was actually possible to recognize some people, not by their name plate, but by their avatar's look. Armors were the same, as you could mix and match from several different armor sets and most armors had 10 different slots (head, chest, belt, legs, feet, 2x biceps, 2x bracers, hands), giving you the chance to look unique beyond a a per mil of the population.

I for one had an armor/color combination, that I never saw anyone else have. You could, of course, just go with storm trooper armor etc. as well.

 

Space - A built in space simulator with free flight, 40-50 different ships to choose from across 3 factions and the ability to reverse engineer looted ship parts. Oh, and you could hook up your joystick to fly of course.

 

Neutral faction - Don't want to tie yourself to a fighting side? Sure, stay neutral.

 

Player houses/cities/ships: The ability to place houses, make cities and decorate the interior of your houses and the large ships. Decoration was 100% sandbox using the countless items in game, so you could come across some amazing works.

 

Species/species traits: Unlike SWTOR, you could choose to play as less humanoid races, such as Wookiee, Trandoshan, Bothan, Mon Calamari, Ithorian, Rodian, and they had different starting stats and certain traits, as well as their own language, which you couldn't understand or speak, if you weren't that race and hadn't learned the language.

 

I remember my first encounter with a wookiee, he said something, and I was all "Huh?", was quite funny when I thought back on it when I found out about different languages. Languages and traits were all removed with the NGE though.

 

PvP - Open world PvP, that could happen anywhere, at anytime. Sometimes, all it took was 2 opposing overt players who started fighting, then more players would join, and it could grow into this massive battle going on for hours! There was no real point it in, other than true and utter joy.

 

Crafting/entertaining - The mere thought of a non combat class is ridiculous. For most games that is. In SWG it actually worked, and it worked damn good.

 

Fast(er) swoops/speeders - Acquirable already at lvl 1, and at no great cost.

 

Emotes and animations - SWG had more of this than any other MMO.

 

 

The bad:

NGE - I honestly welcomed NGE when it came, as it provided a more action paced combat that I liked. Oh, how quickly what little love I had for it turned into complete hate. So much content removed, profession/skills dumbed down, so many things that got pointless. When people say NGE is the most stupid thing to happen in the history of MMO's you won't get any arguement from me.

 

Lack of content - There were actually lots of content, but much of it was broken, especially after NGE, and the devs were slow to fix it, if they did at all. Not to mention, even it it was fixed it was still old content, which most players were sick of, and new content was scarcely implemented.

 

Constant profession imballance - It almost felt like the devs didn't want to fix it, overbuffing/overnerfing everything, but at least that way they could provide a constant improvement plan and make people hope/long for their profession's overhaul.

 

 

When all is said however, SWG was the game we loved to hate, or hated to love.

 

For me though, and for better or worse, in SWG, it felt like you had a 2nd life, you actually lived the saga of Star Wars. Just imagine taking your speeder across the dunes of Tatooine, passing the great pit of carkoon and Jabba the Hutt's palace. Or launching your ship, making the jump to hyperspace and land on the next planet, SWTOR may have this as well, but strangely enough, even beyond free flight, SWG just made it feel more as it should.

 

Lots of text, but I do feel strongly for what SWG once was.

 

The basic core of SWG, is quite honestly what EVERY MMO, should have as a base, and build from.

Edited April 12, 2012 by Mordivius

[Sabster]

Simply put: there was nothing good about SWG - not pre-cu, not NGE, nothing. The game sucked the entire time. They had interesting ideas; and they were all implemented so incredibly poorly, I laugh when people say "well pre-nge was good".

[comgerrit]

Well i think sniperconn hit almost everything on the head there...SWG was an awsome game & i played 6+ years everyday on Tempest/euro-chimaera & starsider & i must say it was the best years of my life so far.Althogh i like TOR i just cant see it ever filling the shoes of SWG but i'm willing to give it a chance,mainly because there is no other star wars MMO out there.

 

Fingers crossed for the future of the game & i say give them more time & they may supprise you

Edited April 12, 2012 by comgerrit

[TurokDarkstar]

I should also note that the game was very niche. It wasn't an action packed, iconic star wars game. Whereas in Swtor you essentially are one of the movie archetypes (Vader=Sith Warrior, Inquisitor=Emperor Palpatine, Smuggler=Han Solo, etc..) -- in SWG you were just a guy who was dropped into the Star Wars universe with no money and no skills and the game said, "Good luck!". I think this is why people get all weepy when thinking back to the good old days. Their characters were very unique and personal to them.

[Ceradus]

I played it, and enjoyed it for close to 4 years before it closed.

 

As with all games it had bad points and good.

 

In the end it was a very fun game, but by then the Dev team was gettin switched around so much and was so small content took a longtime to come.

 

In some cases content ideas and suggestions from devs and players never made it to game due to the switch arounds.

[JoanneK]

I loved SWG 110% as many others do/did, I played all the time on Ahazi from late 03 to around a year after NGE hit, after that I still logged in here n there. Triple Ace pilot on both factions blah blah blah

 

The single best thing in SWG was its flexibility, you could do what you wanted how you wanted when you wanted, whereas SWToR "today I dont fancy combat, well I may aswell not log in then as there isn't anything else to do" allow me to briefly illustrate, SWG - go chat in the cantina in Coronet and maybe drumb up some extra business if you're a crafter, what about shift yer stats around to optimise your spec performance or simply change yer character appearance, go farm that elusive 37k gen reactor (space) Ancient Krayt Dragon pearls anyone? , what about the new swathe of minerals metals chemicals and hides that just spawned?, perhaps go plant yer harvesters on some 90%+ spawn oh but now I fancy some combat/exploration - well DWB on Endor or Imp base on Dantooine, how about hitting some Black Suns on Yavin or NS Witches on Dath? Hero of Tatooine (the 4stage quest chain) and then assemble the rewards into a ball in the hallway of your house, the Aurillia village quest to capture and escort a base commander all the way across Dathomir surface back to the village, me and a friend ended up with having to do one of the far out camps, took us a good couple of hours with guild support clearing a nice path for us, we almost lost the guy twice. Now what can you do in ToR when you're not in the mood for combat? chat with guildies/friends? ya can do that in any game, hell facebook even has that one ticked and facebook doesn't care what faction they're in.

 

Alot of people make mountains out of SWGs bad points and it had some really bad points like rubber banding and overly extensive macro capability to the point of almost AI-like scripts, but like everything else in life, you only really remember the bad, some others said rose tinted glasses - nah, I just enjoyed the game, in my opinion some of its design philosophies were 15-20 years ahead of its time. There was no "end game", indeed a game that has an "end game" suggests that there is a definitive measurable finish point, all recent "modern?" MMOs have it, why? I have no idea, people seem to want the game they love to finish? or is it simply a disposable product - right I've finished this one.. next!!!.

 

Considering that SWG is nearly a decade old I think it stands up pretty well and surpasses a significant amount of what is in ToR and that's before you even look at space combat. SWG flawed? yes of course it was, hell it's not like ToR is a shining example of perfecton now is it? invisible walls, LOS and npc pathing/spawning issues all over the place not to mention the rushed & copy-pasted talent tress (20 trees in total in this game), player economy? seriously? crafting that has limited/no use what so ever and unless you're an alt-o-holic, you'll clear your class content within the free 30 day period you're given with the client, that right there is a big problem for this game.

 

SWG was a game built for the longhaul, it was designed from the ground up to take time to play, it was never intended to be a quick dash, if ToR was a 100 meter sprint then SWG would be multiple multi-stage marathons in terms of the design goals and philosophies. ToR is your favourite toy in a nice shiny box on your birthday, SWG was a great big bag of lego/mechano.

 

Was I hoping for ToR to be the new SWG? yeah, was I disappointed when I found out it wasn't? a bit, but I decided to give it a go anyway, no other MMOs out that really grab me, I have no interest in playing WoW any longer, kung-fu pandas and pokemon with vanity pets really do not appeal to me and this is Star Wars afterall, so its should be pretty decent I thought. now a couple of months since buying, I'm alarmed to find it so unfinished, so rushed, so lacking depth, a question I aksed myself with SWG was "if this wasn't Star Wars, would I still play it" and the answer was YES despite all of its problems, but sadly for ToR that same question would result in NO simple reason being there is no substance to the game, aside from the basic standard/substandard combat mechanics and design model that we've seen repeatedly for over a decade now, it's really a bunch of marketing hype and gimmicks, there is nothing innovative in the game, everything has been done before and in most cases its been done a hell of alot better, in my opinion, the only thing keeping this game going and keeping me playing it is the Star Wars logo, but that will only last so long.

[Sarfux]

I am a star wars HUGE fanboy and played star wars galaxies for years!!

 

Yes..it had it's fun things...but it wasn't "good". Yes, it was a sandbox but it left the player confused like crazy!

 

I believe in time, bioware will put things from SWG into SWTOR and SWTOR is going to continue to get better and better

[Estimate]

Only three things.

 

1.) The NGE in 2005

 

2.) It ended

 

3.) Only ONE character per server

 

Some may disagree, it was ahead of it's time (heh, no wonder it was buggy eh?)

 

The ideas and implementation were rich and varied. It is unfortunate that most, if not all

 

of the mechanics involved have never resurfaced in another single MMO.

 

I'm sorry you missed it (Op and others that never played it)

[LemmingLeader]

Browsing the forums, I've noticed the name SWG (Star wars Galaxies) pop up various times during a discussion - and it's usually described as a terrible title when that happens.

 

Since I never got to play the game, I had to rely on my research (skimming through Wookiepedia's page on the game) to learn about it. Turns out it had quite a few interesting features, such as housing and player-built cities, bounty hunting, diverse space activities and the feature that impressed me the most, a third-person shooter-ish combat.

 

My question here is: why is SWG considered such a sub-par game? Was it the new features that scared off players? Was it poor implementation of these features?

 

Anyway, thanks on advance.

 

I got SWG when it came out in July 2003, but my rig ran like a slideshow for the game. Didn't get to upgrade until December that year and finally gave SWG a good whirl from January 2004.

 

To cut to the chase of your question, the real criticism of SWG, which I adored from 2004 until November 2005, was several key things. In no particular order:

 

** SOE was very poor in their attempts in fixing the game. Stuff was bugged at release, and many things were never fixed even from when I left in 2005. I knew people that left solely because SOE left too many bugs and gameplay issues unresolved for so long.

 

** Sweeping Change 1: The "Combat Rebalance" and "Combat Upgrade": This may take a while. One of the things we were told for so long by SOE was to remain hopeful... we were told about the "Combat Rebalance" that was supposed to be a huge fix of the game and professions. Again, SOE before was slow on their butts to fix SWG. For so long and after so many bug reports, things were not getting fixed. We were repeatedly told to "Wait for the CR" (Combat Rebalance). Yet in mid-2005, we instead got the "Combat Upgrade" which in reality wasn't the big fix, but really big change in gameplay. I wasn't too fond of the CU, but I stuck around since the core professions, skillpoint/template character building system was still there. Still, I did notice a drop in players.

 

** Sweeping Change 2: The "New Game Enhancement": In November 2005, out of the blue and completely unannounced to the playerbase, the "New Game Enhancement" (NGE) came out. This major update completely gutted entire segments of gameplay, oversimplified the game, made the majority of crafting irrelevant, gear became indestructible, removed entire professions, did away with the formless skillpoint / template system in favor of a class+level system, made the game loot / quest reward based, making crafters in SWG nearly irrelevant (whereas before, crafters were just as important to the server as any combat character). SWG used to have outstanding animations, esp. in combat. In the CU, they further refined the animations. But in the NGE, the animations also were simplified.

 

When I say that players in melee looked like stick figures whacking each other over the head with straight arms, it was the truth. Blaster fire? Characters used to point their blasters at proper angles towards the target and fire. The NGE? Blasters stayed straight and level, but blaster bolts flied out at crazy angles towards the target. Shooting straight but shots flying out at 45 degrees and whatnot? Ridiculous.

 

Players left in droves. Players in the forums were petitioning / asking / begging for a rollback. Yet SOE persisted in keeping the changes in place. They say the NGE was a lame attempt to try to make a Sandbox game (SWG) into being more like WoW (I never played WoW). But the game to me had its heart ripped out. The game was unrecognizable after 1 update, and the once large, vibrant, tight-knit community was instantly gone.

 

** The NGE and the "Trials of Obi-Wan" Expansion Pack debacle: The Trials of Obi-Wan exp.pack came out in November 2005, and was to suit the then current form of the game, the "CU." However, right when the ToOW exp.pack was released and went live, the NGE update came online. Gameplay that the exp.pack was supposed to enhance was literally deleted by the NGE update. Classes that the exp.pack was supposed to add onto were literally GONE by the NGE update. Customers were justly furious with SOE about this, and SOE had to refund them.

 

The above points were the major points that I feel that most former veterans of SWG left for. I have alot more points about why SWG became terrible, but those are specific to my tastes and for another thread.

 

With all this said, from the time I really started playing SWG in January 2004 until my departure in November 2005, I still consider my best days in MMORPG gaming then and now. I loved the freedom of the Skillpoint and Template character build system. Levels didn't exist. I loved a true player-run economy. I loved the combat and animations. Veteran players went out the way to help me learn the game (SWG used to have a steep learning curve), and I in turn helped newbies learn the game. It was fun seeing Role Players do their thing, esp. the Imperial RP guilds that had everyone decked out in uniforms and Stormtrooper gear. I loved how the game worlds looked. I loved how the game let you do so much with the world. I loved how other aspects of the game were just as deep as combat.

 

In terms of multiplayer, it was the last MMORPG that I experienced where grouping felt natural, and groups persisted for hours if you wanted to. I'm talking about PUGs, guys. Random, other players getting together to adventure or go on hunting groups. Alot of my best experiences in the game was with people in these PUGs, and we'd stick together for hours if everyone was up for it. This wasn't "Raiding" or whatever, this was normal adventuring. Not the pathetic groups that I've experienced in later years and later MMORPGs. If you wanted to solo, the game was fine for it. Yet the gameplay somehow lent that grouping be a natural thing: Grouping was not a heavy handed rule that forced you to comply. You just somehow wanted to be in a group with others.

 

Even during my fun days of playing SWG, make no mistake, it was pretty buggy. Yet the freeform gameplay and vibrant community kept me there.

 

Let me ask you this: What was the last MMORPG that you played where alot of players played for something that never involved combat? And yet they logged in for years and enjoyed it. The game used to have a large, highly competitive crafter / merchant community. Stuff was fairly priced, and they competed for your repeated business (again, practically all items can decay to a point that you need to replace them). We had players that only played to be dancers / entertainers, and other assorted non-combat aspects.

 

That's what the game used to have, and that's what SOE destroyed with their poor handling of the game.

Edited April 12, 2012 by LemmingLeader

[Tamthas]

I started playing SWG on Day One and did so until late 2010. I found the game was grat when it came out but CU really killed it. I was a Master Musician/Master Entertainer and my friends and I had even composed several musical pieces with the cues that were available. Cantinas were crowded back then and the social life was great. Then came CU and the Jedi... The problem with Jedi is that the story was taking place just after the Battle of Yavin. The onyl Jedi left was Yoda and were not supposed to know he still lives. All of a sudden you had thousands of Jedi everywhere. This killed the game for me.

 

And yes, there were quests. I did all of the Jabba the Hutt on Tatooine and Emperor/Vader quests on Naboo.

[Sniperrecon]

I am a star wars HUGE fanboy and played star wars galaxies for years!!

 

Yes..it had it's fun things...but it wasn't "good". Yes, it was a sandbox but it left the player confused like crazy!

 

I believe in time, bioware will put things from SWG into SWTOR and SWTOR is going to continue to get better and better

 

I really hope so. I really do.

 

My biggest fear is they will fall into what every other MMO out there has. Through out a game and hope for a big cash flow before u turn off the lights.

 

I'm afraid if they don't do something , subs will drop so bad that they can't keep it going , and they may know that already. Alot of companies now a days do this on purpose. Through out a game and hope for some cash flow knowing it won't reach 2yrs beacuse they already did all they plan on doing.

 

With SWG u knew right off the bat that subs were gonna flow for awhile. Know how i know? If u wanted to have a fully speced crafter (armorsmith for example) u also needed a combat profession to gather the resourses. But u also wanted to get ur Jedi going , so u had no real choice but to open another account. Thus u now payed $30 a month to play the game , and that was acceptible cause it was awesome. U actually felt a sence of accomplishment knowing that if u got all 4 toons to full spec u could to awesome work at 1 or both crafting professions and people would KNOW you by name and ask for ur product. Did ur combat professions right and ur name was known in pvp as well , by name if not by bounty (at one time i had over a 50mil bounty on my head , making me the most hunted person in the game for 3 weeks , now thats non stop pvp and was a blast)

 

With SWTOR , while i love the game , i worry about how they r gonna keep subs up. Why buy another account when on 1 server alone u can play each profession , minus the sub professions.

 

In as long as the games been out , i've lvl'ed 3 toons to 50 , all but 1 at valor lvl 50 or better and fully pvp geared out (even my companions have pvp gear)

 

In SWG it took me about 6 months to get 1 toon to max lvl (meaning it was sepced to where i wanted , since u really couldn't max lvl a toon)

 

Nothing was solable , not that was of any good to fight anyways. U wanted high end stuff , u needed a group. After NGE a few things were soloable , but u needed to respec to the FOTM to do it. Be it Master Swordsman with 0400 medic 0404 fencer or w/e. But even that took time.

 

SWTOR , if u do ir right , any profession can solo pretty much anything besides FP or OP runs , and even then if u can combat cloak u can.

 

The biggest problem with todays MMO market is that they listen TOO much to the kids out there and not enough to the adults who actually give the kids the money for the game and play themselves. Most those kids will be gone in 6 months anyways no matter what they fix or do. Its the hard core gamers who will still be around in a yr that will make the difference and non of them want the game to be a solo this , solo that then que for this kinda game. Most want content that involves others , even pvp.

 

I think SWG had some of the solution in the pvp tokens u get for open world pvp. SWTOR would benifit from that if they would open up more incentive for open world pvp. More people getting together for the common fight. Maybe a alert system when more than 1 lvl 50 landed on a planet or a base that both factions could raid and once a player from the other faction gets near , a server wide alert was issued for all to help defend that base. The faction invading the base could override certain things that lockdown certain travel points and thus make the enemy have to go it by bike. Maybe a box of goodies that has to be looted or guarded that everyone wants to get to. Npc's would need to be high lvl so NO ONE could solo any of it. Everyone involved , win or lose would get alot of pvp tokens towards high end gear.

 

Put 2 or more for each faction out there and u got what made pvp towards the end of SWG so involved. Guarding that base for those high end stims for 12hrs + was a blast and some of the best pvp was there.

[LemmingLeader]

I started playing SWG on Day One and did so until late 2010. I found the game was grat when it came out but CU really killed it. I was a Master Musician/Master Entertainer and my friends and I had even composed several musical pieces with the cues that were available. Cantinas were crowded back then and the social life was great. Then came CU and the Jedi... The problem with Jedi is that the story was taking place just after the Battle of Yavin. The onyl Jedi left was Yoda and were not supposed to know he still lives. All of a sudden you had thousands of Jedi everywhere. This killed the game for me.

 

And yes, there were quests. I did all of the Jabba the Hutt on Tatooine and Emperor/Vader quests on Naboo.

 

After all these years, I still remember, Publish 9 was the one that removed all the risks and dangers of Jedi, who used to have Permadeath. Subsequent patches eventually catered more and more to the Jedi.

 

Also, thanks for reminding me about the Cantinas. They used to be full with relaxing players. I frequently used to visit for a break from combat and adventuring. Entertainers (musicians, dancers) did their thing. It's not a lie to say that the Cantinas at Coronet, Theed, Mos Eisley, and Bestine were crowded like a real life, successful night club.

 

I still remember, that my character as an Imperial Stormtrooper, eventually had a favorite dancer, a certain blue Twilek that frequented Mos Eisley and Bestine. Which is why I guess blue Twileks still have a soft spot for me when I see them in SWTOR...

 

Oh, and I still remember "Team Hawtpants," the famed (infamous) Entertainer groups that were always wearing hotpants. And their slogan, "Give in to the hawt side."

Edited April 12, 2012 by LemmingLeader