No MMO has come close to SWG's community-orientation

[BrandonSM]

Go play SWG then.

 

This(Except not in a harsh way.)

 

This game is not SWG, stop trying to make it like SWG, let it have its own path. This game is not SWG 2.0

[Clinical]

This(Except not in a harsh way.)

 

This game is not SWG, stop trying to make it like SWG, let it have its own path. This game is not SWG 2.0

 

Another person who didn't attempt to understand what I'm saying at all.

I love TOR, I was simply directing this at all MMO's. I never said this was SWG 2.0 - I really don't want that grinding/queue combat system back.

 

I was just saying how community oriented a game like SWG was and how little the MMO's of today rely on community.

[Cegenaus]

good post op, ive been trying to make this type of point for months. swg had some great ideas, better than any mmo ive ever seen. its demise was not these ideas but how they were handled and if you dont think so go take a look at dco. Edited December 18, 2011 by Meluna
pm sent

[BrandonSM]

Another person who didn't attempt to understand what I'm saying at all.

I love TOR, I was simply directing this at all MMO's. I never said this was SWG 2.0 - I really don't want that grinding/queue combat system back.

 

I was just saying how community oriented a game like SWG was and how little the MMO's of today rely on community.

 

Well I wasn't directing neccesarily directing my comment at you. But allot of people(Some that have commented on this thread) have asked for TOR to be like SWG. And I just hate it...

[courtsdad]

good post op, ive been trying to make this type of point for months. swg had some great ideas, better than any mmo ive ever seen. its demise was not these ideas but how they were handled and if you dont think so go take a look at dco. i cant wait for the emu to be finished

 

Well said and I am with you.

 

At the current rate SWG was several decades ahead of its time. Its too bad that SOE and LA dropped the ball so badly. We seem to be going backwards if anything. It had flaws but most of those were due to bad leadership.

Edited December 18, 2011 by Meluna
pm sent

[Sothar]

I played as a musician in SWG. And I always performed at the keyboard without macros. It was one of the most enjoyable experiences I had playing an MMO. When things got tough I had the pikeman specced out so I could lay down some hurt, otherwise I travelled around finding the busiest cantinas, played there and talked to the people who came by.

 

Unfortunately my character was male so I never got much in the way of tips, but I did make quite a few friends, was invited to some guild villages for private shows and whatnot.

 

When I got enough money from tips I would buy a new droid with special effects and lighting to make my show a bit fancier. It was great the rare times you would play with other musicians and have an entire band going. I could play all the instruments so I could fill any of the holes in the music.

Edited December 18, 2011 by Sothar

[Vlterivs]

I beg to differ with the Subject... COH, EVE, LotRO all have very very good communities... And they aren't as whiny as SWG fanbots about NGE and John Smedley.

[Hobojiboba]

Dunno if it's been said, not going to read through all the posts... but this game just started, we may see all of these things in the future.

[courtsdad]

I beg to differ with the Subject... COH, EVE, LotRO all have very very good communities... And they aren't as whiny as SWG fanbots about NGE and John Smedley.

 

Which of those games players were lied to, not little lies but big ones, and all of the work they had put into the game was tossed away? Which one of those games was completely gutted not once but twice? Which person running those games blamed the players after they gutted it.

 

Smedley deserves every negative word directed at him and much more. What happened to SWG was the "New Coke" of thje MMO world and should be a point of study in every business school. How do you screw up something with the biggest IP out there AND tell your paying customers ( many of whom had muliple accounts) to go pound sand because they wanted to attract new players.

 

 

You apparently are confused or clueless to what went down.

 

You may also want to actually read what the OP was addressing. Its right in the title but your hatred apparently made you over look it.

Edited December 19, 2011 by courtsdad

[Lord_Itharius]

They're adding guild capital ships, which should serve as a sort of guild hall/player home role. They can't do SWG's housing system simply because there aren't large swaths of flat, empty land in this game.

[LifeHatesMe]

I read your comments on what made SWG so awesome, and I had to chuckle a bit. SWG borrowed many of it's gameplay rules directly from another game called Star Wars Combine. In particular, there are specific requirements regarding building, and crafting items.

 

One thing I think will really ruin this game from what I've seen is a strong value for bethseda to require that people re-roll whenever they want to retrain for something else. One of the biggest complaints about SWG was the "redesign" that forced people to specialize in only one thing.

 

I guess we will see. For right now, I'm loving the dialogues, decent AI on companions, and mediocre graphics :]

[GBlues]

The one thing I think every new MMO lacks is the sense of community that I loved in pre-nge SWG.

 

It was just a game that rewarded socializing/being part of the community, which I feel an MMO should do.

 

What I mean:

Actually RELYing on Crafters for goods. They mostly made the best weapons/armor.

Relying on Doctors for buffs for both PvE & PvP generally and even a new player benefitted massively from them.

Relying on Entertainers for the exact same reason.

Again, relying on crafters - they made it all, mounts, buff food, medical supplies, clothes, buildings, creatures, etc.

PvP Being real world PvP

Real Guild PvP Wars <3 <3

 

The best part:

PLAYER CITIES/housing/guild halls/etc

 

The player housing/city system was simply astounding, and they had the ability to fully function with mission terminals, factional bases, cantinas, shuttleports, med center, etc.

 

I don't understand why no game to this day has implemented or even tried to implement another player housing/city system like this. It was such a huge success in SWG. It just meant so much to have your 'home' in SWG. I put so much time into customizing my home and making it my home, as well as my home in my Ship.

 

I'm not just complaining about SW:ToR - just MMO's in general these days that are way more focused on providing PvE & PvP content that gives to the players, rather than put some focus on Players giving to Players and a strong community benefitting the game.

 

I have to say, if you took the average MMO player today especially from a game like WoW and put them into old SWG I can't imagine how bad it would be.. so used to rarely socializing with other players outside their own guild.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm LOVING SW:ToR - basically because it's like a new WoW for me that I haven't seen decline.

Personally I feel that WoW is a great game, but it has also had 7 years of development in it now - I just feel that the content in WoW sucks and is wasting the good design WoW has. But this isn't about WoW.

 

Just saying I love SW: ToR - but still hope some day for another MMO to come out that rivals the community orientation SWG had.

 

 

 

Anyone else feel this way?

 

1. Why should I have to rely on an entertainer? What possible thing can they do for a combat person? Nothing. THey aren't there when you need them, when the buff runs out, now you have to make another side trip to a cantina to get one. Most of the entertainers weren't that good anyways. Took forever to get a buff.

 

2.Most of the stuff that the crafters made you couldn't afford to buy anyways, if you were new so it was pointless for the beginners. Which again...why do you need them if you can't afford to buy there stuff?

 

3. Housing- ONe good reason for no housing, is the JERKS, that always put there house on the little flag that you have a mission for, and you can't do it, because he isn't home, and he has to invite you inside. That's a great reason right there! How's about when it's laggy, and the entire countryside is riddled with houses, and you run into every single one of them??? Housing is dull, and it's something that you have to do in real life anyways. Why do you want to do something in a game that you have to do in real life? That's not fun in my book. Here dig a ditch all day....If I am a ditch digger, that is going to seriously irritate me.

 

SWG=Sucked, and fail. Just my personal opinion....but I wasn't happy with it. Period.

[Ceogar]

i have given up on finding a game that has the same spirit and possibilities as SWG. No game will ever have the same social standard and epic crafting and profession system.

 

 

RIP SWG You will be missed.

 

Dont get me wrong, im more than eager to try out this game for the first time tonight

So far i have seen about 6 ingame screenshots but nothing else! Spoiler free ftw!

 

 

I guess i would become banned here for suggesting you check out swgemu so i wont do that.

[calyptic]

you wont find the game here. Although i can commit to saying that there are alot more Mature gamers on TOR than pretty much every other themepark MMO ive played. SWG and EVE community is unique in the fact they HAVE to work together.

[aka_matrix_pwner]

I played as a musician in SWG. And I always performed at the keyboard without macros. It was one of the most enjoyable experiences I had playing an MMO. When things got tough I had the pikeman specced out so I could lay down some hurt, otherwise I travelled around finding the busiest cantinas, played there and talked to the people who came by.

 

Unfortunately my character was male so I never got much in the way of tips, but I did make quite a few friends, was invited to some guild villages for private shows and whatnot.

 

When I got enough money from tips I would buy a new droid with special effects and lighting to make my show a bit fancier. It was great the rare times you would play with other musicians and have an entire band going. I could play all the instruments so I could fill any of the holes in the music.

 

Sounds awesome!

[Clinical]

Honestly by reading your post I'm curious if you even have an idea what you're talking about. Sounds like you know next to nothing about what the game was and how it functioned...

 

Anyway:

1. Why should I have to rely on an entertainer? What possible thing can they do for a combat person? Nothing. THey aren't there when you need them, when the buff runs out, now you have to make another side trip to a cantina to get one. Most of the entertainers weren't that good anyways. Took forever to get a buff.

Again, reliance on community which is why this thread is about the COMMUNITY orientation of SWG, I'm not in here saying SWG was the greatest game in itself. Why does no one actually read? The buffs lasted 2 hours, and often there was always a ent or two in cantinas even in small places. Forever to get a buff, 3 minutes? Big deal it's an MMO, you sound like a WoW generation MMO player.

2.Most of the stuff that the crafters made you couldn't afford to buy anyways, if you were new so it was pointless for the beginners. Which again...why do you need them if you can't afford to buy there stuff?

I made a lot of alts on other servers for fun in Pre-CU SWG, and it very easy to buy great upgraded weapons on the Bazaar or armor. The cap for the bazaar was 5,000 credits, which was far from unobtainable by new players. Often people leveling crafting would put their stuff on there for cheap and it was often great upgrades. Yes the best stuff costed money, but dantooine missions in a full group rewarded 45-50k credits a mission and fully buffed any combat class could solo them. 1 hour could = about 300-400k credits. Farming saber crystals also were about 60-100k credits per crystal.

3. Housing- ONe good reason for no housing, is the JERKS, that always put there house on the little flag that you have a mission for, and you can't do it, because he isn't home, and he has to invite you inside. That's a great reason right there! How's about when it's laggy, and the entire countryside is riddled with houses, and you run into every single one of them??? Housing is dull, and it's something that you have to do in real life anyways. Why do you want to do something in a game that you have to do in real life? That's not fun in my book. Here dig a ditch all day....If I am a ditch digger, that is going to seriously irritate me.

Missions were random placed in SWG, at least originally - I don't know what the NGE trash brought with it. It also did not let you place homes close to actual POI's and the little i played in the NGE it did not allow you to place your home close to quest hubs. However random spawn missions could be placed under the house.

 

The house thing is a part of the whole 'immersion' - again, the COMMUNITY benefited a lot from player housing/buildings. SWG was the best RP game I've ever seen as well even though I'm not a big RPer - it sucked me in a couple times.

SWG=Sucked, and fail. Just my personal opinion....but I wasn't happy with it. Period.

Either you hardly played it all and didn't get past the learning curve, or you only played the NGE.

SWG was one of the largest MMO's until WoW's release - and honestly I expect it would of been a much more popular game if there had been a larger MMO fanbase however WoW really has created the big MMO fanbase. People will say everquest did, however it created more the idea of what an MMO should be - WoW brought in the playerbase due to its uncomplex design and a more 'family friendly' setting entirely.

 

SWG had a pretty big learning curve and was a complex game, although a ton of fun once you figured out what you were doing. again Im talking mostly about pre-cu. I gave the NGE about a 3-4 month run and that was all i could stand.

[Ceogar]

 

SWG had a pretty big learning curve and was a complex game, although a ton of fun once you figured out what you were doing. again Im talking mostly about pre-cu. I gave the NGE about a 3-4 month run and that was all i could stand.

 

Honestly, if a game has a learning curve that requiers more then 1-2 days.. people wont play it.

 

I still remember my first days in SWG just because there were so much to learn and everything was so complicated and exciting. my first wow days is just a big grinding blur.

[Killer_Wonka]

This game has a lot of potential to run a long time cause a lot can be added to it and some other MMO's are on the chopping block.

[Esquire]

i have given up on finding a game that has the same spirit and possibilities as SWG. No game will ever have the same social standard and epic crafting and profession system.

 

 

RIP SWG You will be missed.

 

Dont get me wrong, im more than eager to try out this game for the first time tonight

So far i have seen about 6 ingame screenshots but nothing else! Spoiler free ftw!

 

 

I guess i would become banned here for suggesting you check out swgemu so i wont do that.

 

Don't give up quite yet. There is an indie studio that's making the attempt. Dawntide from WAI. Player housing in open worlds, deco, interdependant crafting, crafting stations, player citys in open worlds, PVP areas, ship construction and PVP battles (this time on water instead of space), 700 point skillboxes, about 40 different profs 7 of which you can specialize in, etc etc etc.

 

Game is in open beta but it's down atm for a month or 2 for a complete new build. Should be open beta still when it comes back up.

 

Sad to think that most of the AAA studios will all do WoW clones. Koster should do another one. I also miss what SWG was. RIP

Edited December 21, 2011 by Esquire

[StarTale]

You know I think instead of cities a cool way to implement another form of housing/guild houses or something similar would be for people to be able to buy star destroyers or massive ships. I think that would be alot cooler then having a little house on a planet or whatever.

 

As far as communities go... I'm not sure why people bash wow's community so much. Yes there are the trolls/elitists/******es but it's more apparent there because there are so many people that play it. In SWG's it was probably less apparent because there were so few players + no hardcore element to the game from what it sounds like. There are going to be "those guys" in every game even this one and to say that's not true is just silly.

[Chapstik]

Success is measured by subs aka dollar signs. While Galaxies brought something back into the MMO market (sorry but UO had the first player houses that were not kept in a separate instance), the small amount of subs the game had overall showed that this was NOT what the majority of players wanted. And when I say small, small compared to what EQ had during its peak.

 

The problem I had with the player housing and cities, it was a eye sore on the landscape. Nothing like running around and seeing harvesters everywhere. Even though I played that game for awhile, I never owned a house and actually farmed for my mats for crafting. Housing just never influenced me on how a game community is. How the players treat each other and whether they are civilized on the forums while debating certain game mechanics plays a much larger role to me for a game community. 90% of the time if the forums are respectable and civil in tone, the players in game help each other out.

 

As for buffs, if you consider an entertainer, who were 99% of the time afk, as a key community point, thanks but no thanks. Afk macro players does not make a good community; it just makes somebody gain a master profession while they're at work and nowhere near.

 

You also didn't seem to play EQ. When PoP came out, PoT was where EVERYBODY was at and buffs were always going out and believe me, everybody wanted buffs; during vanilla EQ, it was the EC tunnels which also served as the bazaar/auction house. All in all, as someone who has played both EQ and SWG, both their communities were the preferred communities in MMO's and not the cesspool we have gotten with the recent games, prime example WoW.

 

^^^ This guy was just a loner and nobody liked him

[hobieone]

i also agree with the op, swg pre nge had had a reason and atmosphere that supported socialization and those that enjoyed role playing.

 

but most of all to this date swg hands down had the best crafting system of any mmo past or present period. i loved the complexities of that crafting system i t made you feel like you actually did craft the item. from harvesting raw materials to the final product. and there where differences between the crafters as well you could craft something unique that people could tell it was you not someone else who built it.

 

resulting with people coming from all over the planet or other planets to come to your small shop in the player city to buy your goods.

 

i would love a mmo to have that robust of a crafting system again.

 

-rest in peace pre-nge swg

[BladeStrike]

You see successful games have alot of douchebags because of their large number of players. SWG did not suffer from this.

[Clinical]

Honestly, if a game has a learning curve that requiers more then 1-2 days.. people wont play it.

 

I still remember my first days in SWG just because there were so much to learn and everything was so complicated and exciting. my first wow days is just a big grinding blur.

 

I think this is one thing that made its community great, it weeded out quickly a lot of the morons/kids. Although I was only 13 when the game released and I did manage to learn the game although it took me about a year before I was fully in tune with the game, there was just so much to learn. It was a game that didn't really reward laziness at all unless you were an entertainer.

[Mogget]

EVE online had/has a better community orientation actually.

 

The best, I would say.

 

I agree completely. However to all of you who have said you miss towns from SWG did you not see the giant post the devs had a few days ago pertaining to Guild Capital ships? That's basically a floating metropolis.

 

I liked SWG for it's time. I also liked PlanetSide for it's time. SW:ToR is hopefully going to redefine a story in an MMO. I hated the rediculous fetch quests in all MMOs. Granted there are still quite a few of those only now you can be a snarky little **** or an upstanding citizen and you can't reload. So I like SW:ToR for it's time.

 

To me though these threads are pointless. How about we stop worrying about the past and build a new community better than the ones to come before. There are some spectacular ideas being put forth here lets try and give the devs the support they need instead of trying to get old systems back in.