No, it's a great game if you want a single player KOTOR with chat functions. Again, I had fun playing it but it just isn't worth $15 a month. Would make a great F2P game

A/C is basically a class respec.. dual-spec is simply specializication respec, big deal.

You need to open your eyes, people with perfectly good systems are experiencing issues. I crash very frequently, especially upon entering WZ's. I also get FPS lag on Taris thanks to the massive memory leak/fps issues Taris had forever in beta that Bioware ignored our feedback on. Here are my computer specs, try to tell me again that I need a better computer to play SW:TOR - a game that hardly beats SWG in graphics. ASUS Sabertooth 990FX nVidia GeForce 570GTX 1.2gb Corsair 850TX PS 12gb Corsair Vengeance DDR3 AMD X6 3.2ghz 1090T Six-Core Processor I play everything else perfect on maxed graphics including Crysis, hell I did Crysis great on my old computer and the SW:TOR beta played just as well on it (GeForce 8800 GTS, 6gb Kingston DDR3, AMD Quad-Core 2.8ghz, etc) but it had the same crashing / fps issues I run into even now. The only FPS issues i mainly have are Taris like I said though anymore, which was always a problem. Crashing is as abundant as ever though.

I'm cancelling and coming back in about 2-3 months. I have a feeling the game will be completely different by then. The game was simply rushed to launch, unfortunately I have a feeling the game will lose a lot of players by then and end up being like Vanguard which did the same thing, had a huge launch and everyone quit right away because it wasn't 'finished' at all and yet now today the game is pretty damn awesome but ruined its beginning which is enough to kill an MMO permanently. I have a good feeling that TOR will be a 100% better game in a few months and will definitely be subscribing again.

I know I've said it in like 20 other posts in this thread, but I did not post this glorifying everything that was SWG, I brought up many of its huge flaws. Don't feel like going through that again. This thread is talking about the community aspect, not saying that SWG as a whole was oh so amazing. SWG deserved to be shut down, it was a shell of a butchered game these past years. Making an observation =/= whining

this I'll admit I would rather have the buffing though again. Yeah it's an inconvenience when you do it a lot. However I remember I met a lot of friends through that too, hell my closest gamer friend that I still regularly talk to to this day and played WoW with until WOTLK I originally met in 04 giving out doctor buffs and gave me a surprise 50% discount since I got a lot of buffs from him, talked to him a bit and boom friends. Stuff like that, while an inconvenience for some, added to the socialization thing.

The benefit of player cities was way better than the negatives back when the game was in its prime (2003-2005, which is the time I'm aiming this thread at) And I only played a few times in the NGE, and they did do a structure wipe of old structures what was it a year or so ago? And it did clean it all up nicely. Again though you're acting like I'm praising the game as if there were no flaws, I'm saying they had a great player housing/city system compared to anything else we've seen - that isnt to say it wasnt without flaws, a new MMO would just need to incorporate a type of pruning that after so much inactivity any buildings you had would be stored with their belongings in your inventory. Would work fine. You can really only call it that if you didn't play the game and understand how much support they added to the game's atmosphere.

Okay seriously, what is the deal with people having such terrible comprehension and missing the point of this thread entirely? Are you SW:ToR devote fanboys that tense over the subject that you think anything is a direct insult at TOR? I don't know how many times I've re-stated in this thread, I NEVER said SW:ToR sucks, I love the game. This thread is not saying SWG was the greatest game ever, I was bringing up how much community-involvement there was in a game like SWG and how we never see than in new MMO's. I'm not just specifically talking about SW:ToR. I'm having a lot of fun playing SW:ToR - no not as much as SWG, but that's not really the point of this thread. I swear the fanboys are so quick to defend against insults that never occurred. Lol it's so far from complete it doesn't even have half of the features I'm mentioning implemented yet. Believe me I would be otherwise. The fact is this is a STAR WARS forum area, not the TOR general discussion. If you aren't open to discussion about other star wars products/ideas aside from ToR, then don't come to the Star Wars area. wat

Don't know if you're trolling... I'll indulge either way. Anyway, yes getting exp was a bit of a grind in SWG, I've already stated that. SWG however was a sandbox MMO and a great one at that. They actually created the game from scratch with many interesting ideas/features that we'd never seen before rather than following the norm. If you honestly can tell me the skill tree system of SWG was inferior to the plain leveling system we have in most MMO's like WoW/ToR today - then either you know nothing of it or it was just too complex for you. SWG immersed you into the world itself, not the story. Which is good for some bad for others. If you bought it to play the main star wars Story itself then you'd be disappointed. It was great though in the way that it put you into the Star Wars world and allowed you to explore the story but you didn't really interfere with it. It was what made it a great Sandbox. I feel that if they had made this game without the Star Wars tag it would of had more players due to many people who aren't into Star Wars games not playing the game fearing too much 'star wars'. So yes if you're a pure star wars fanboy the game wouldn't be as fun as to others. Yes the land may get boring sometimes especially on tatooine, lock, and rori due to being huge planets of sand/muck however that's honestly how those planets landscapes in reality would be. I understand opinions are opinions, but I will say to call the game cheap crap and a complete knock off is just ignorance. It was a very innovative game with good sides and bad. Personally I feel the goods outweighed the bad but others don't feel the same. I'm just bringing up in this thread some of the main points that many people did love the game for and how some of the best features of SWG are features that most other MMO developers have yet to implement and always state things like it is too much development time/hard to implement despite a game from nearly 10 years ago had some of those great features. Then you get the people who lecture you on expecting too much from launch. You bet I expect a lot at game launches - we've had MMO's now for around 15 years, so I expect to see a lot of progression/great content from new MMO's with all the history they can study now. It doesn't seem like we're getting anything new/fresh feeling in the last 5 years of MMO's really aside from WoW knockoffs. The only thing fresh I've seen is the voiced story of TOR which will be great for a couple play throughs and then be more of a burden after that.

Yep because I'm sitting here saying we need to implement it right now. You're just another who didn't even read the post. I'm just bringing up the fact no MMO's have implemented stuff like this. If I was trying to tell them to put it in the game it'd be in the suggestion forum.

This is another of those 'necessary' things that Bioware is avoiding that will cost them subscribers after the 'newness' of the game wears off. I swear Bioware is really bad about this, some features from other MMO's simply should be implemented, and this isn't even a game mechanic itself. Especially with Bioware not adding things like a LFD / LFR tool. They want server communication yet no server forums, somethings wrong with that picture.

Urban trash littering the place? If anything it made it feel a lot more realistic. Honestly i rarely had issues with player buildings interfering with missions, it's true in NGE they did because SoE were tards and didn't plan better for releasing all the new quests. Keep in mind this thread is primarily about pre-cu SWG. Pre-CU SWG missions were very good about not glitching inside buildings, the only issue was mobs sometimes running inside buildings which there were ways to pull them out, primarily just using aoe. I'd rather have player buildings here and there in the huge worlds of SWG rather than be constantly walled in very specific paths that make me feel like I'm playing a regular KOTOR game with co-op. You played it? Enlighten me, because I thought it was a smooth launch aside from some missing features added later such as vehicles & removal of corpse running. I remember the main *****-fest being the slow spawn of mobs in starting zones on the forums.

I guess this is why opinions are opinions, SWG was a very successful MMO for its time. Perhaps you're forgetting but in the prime of SWG, it was uncommon for MMO's to reach over 1 million. It wasn't until WoW that people now have this mindset/standard that if it doesn't have millions of subs it isn't successful. People can ask for whatever they want, especially of things that were great ideas. It's the whole idea of progressing/advancing in the industry - take stuff that worked and use it/improve on it. SWG was hard to get started in, but once you were started it was a lot of fun. It lost a ton of possible players due to how sophisticated and complex of a game it was. Young people make up a huge portion of MMO players and it was a game that saw few younger people willing to take the time to learn and understand the game. There were no guild ships. How in the hell did player cities violate canon? Every possible game of something will violate canon in one way or another more than likely. SW:ToR must violate canon since my lightsaber doesn't one hit kill people on a successful hit. I never said SWG was bug free on launch, it was still a smooth launch though aside from the horrible corpse running and no mounts. Social abilities of the game being terrible?... wow really? Did you even play the game? I've never seen a more socialized MMORPG.. But again opinions are opinions, and you and me + most of the people who legitly played SWG Pre-CU have very different ones. What to you constitutes good social abilities in a MMO aside from a general chat, trade chat, and basic grouping.

What is with all the people who do NOT read the posts at all or understand the point at all? I swear comprehension is at an all time low. I'm not asking for SWG 2.0, just that MMO's should after near 10 years should be able to incorporate some of the better features of old MMO's like SWG had into new games. People can argue its in development, but **** you should shoot higher in 2012 rather than shooting to meet games that launched years ago. Social features yes, SWG 2.0 as you originally stated no. So many people like you in this thread keep putting words into my mouth to make your argument better. Last thing I want is SWG's combat system/grind system

lol using cars as an example for moving forward. The only cars that have move forward are the exotics/super cars which will happen in that industry. Instead we had cars in the 90's putting out 50mpg off easy to maintain/fix/reliable gas motors and now we have hybrids in 2012 bragging about 30mpg that are much more expensive, not as reliable, too much of a pain for the average guy to work on. I agree with the op entirely, WoW had no where near as many game breaking bugs as this did at launch. Sure it had bugs, some really annoying but nothing extroardinarily game breaking except for maybe when i fell through the world like 3 times on a ship and had to have a GM reset me. SW:ToR is a great game, but there are TONS of bugs, many game breaking, many that were widely reported.. Why Bioware even had a beta test is beyond me, they ignored most of the feedback.

Anyone else like me and have a hard time staying very interested in a character after 30? Just starts to feel like more of a grind at that point and the only quests worth doing are the class story. My first character was my Imp Agent I got to 32 and then rerolled my trooper that I got to 30, tonight I rolled a Sith Inquisitor and am level 10 and loving it. I love the game but is anyone else getting the same vibe?

i've noticed between my two characters its best to start pvp around level 16. Just quest a bit more, it takes like no time at all to hit 16 if you really want to. At that point its pretty gravy.

The game released in 2003 and contained most all of its primary features then aside from mounts and having to corpse run. It is now 2011 and we've come so damn far..not.

who said it was king? Eve is a completely different game in that sense, it's more of a strategic MMO, while SWG still is the average avatar/being character-based MMO. Two completely different games. SWG is much more related to the MMO's of today.

Guild capitol ships I guarantee will not be anywhere near as immersive as SWG's player cities that provided PvP / PvE Missions / Shuttles / Vendors / Cantinas / Hospitals / etc. However the capitol ships and player ships are definitely a great step forward compared to most MMO's and I highly approve of it. We SHOULD think of the past, because it is what we should learn from. It has almost been 9 years since I was in the beta for SWG and back then the worlds were much larger, huge immersive environments such as player cities - all something that contributed to the best part of SWG which you'd think after 9 years some new MMO's would of improved on. And honestly I think the graphics of the landscapes were better in SWG than many of the new MMO's. It's like too how Crysis released in 2007, it's nearly 2012 and no game has even come close to giving Crysis's game engine a run for its money. It's just sad and imo mostly to blame on the game consoles, which due to their limitations and how much money are still going into them - have the public used to a certain standard for graphics and likewise the PC game companies many of whom produce games for the consoles as well don't feel motivated to make improvements and lure people away from the more popular consoles. It's like how Crysis was just for the PC and had incredible graphics and for Crysis 2 the engine was highly de-tuned to be made into a console port. I just miss MMO companies especially being innovative and bringing completely different/new games to the table. SW:ToR is pretty much the most different thing to come out in a long time, but the only thing they've really brought into the MMO that's new is voiced story. Unfortunately due to that development I feel they really did not put enough effort into the environments. I just feel like I'm playing a multiplayer KOTOR, which for some is perfect. But I'd rather have Kotor 3 than that. Either way I love SW:ToR - just may have been a bit over hyped. But I'll probably play a few characters to 50 before I cancel. I just miss the Community aspect of SWG. WoW had a good community in vanilla and through BC. In wrath it pretty much died. However SWG was a different type of community, it completely immersed you and required you to be immersed to make really any headway in the game. TLDR: SWG community was cool and immersive, SW:ToR has some good ideas - hopefully they follow through.

maybe you should start reading, so that you don't post this in the wrong forum

I think this is one thing that made its community great, it weeded out quickly a lot of the morons/kids. Although I was only 13 when the game released and I did manage to learn the game although it took me about a year before I was fully in tune with the game, there was just so much to learn. It was a game that didn't really reward laziness at all unless you were an entertainer.

You mean Bioware was SMART ENOUGH to NOT allow you to change advance classes. Advance class is basically like a picking a class after picking a class. It should hold the same weight. YES you were told, you are warned! If you are going to return the game over 1-2 hours of play due to your own mistake, then please just leave now.

Car Company =/= MMO Gaming Company.. bad analogy is bad. So, name the 'many' equally hyped MMO's that did not have these issues.

yeah questing doesn't end up yielding much of anything for credits. However by level 25 when I bought my mount I had saved 68,000 credits - mostly just from my constant warzones.. They pay amazingly well.