Lets Be Honest.

[Darthbluginal]

There has been a ton of backlash from the changes made to sorcs/consullars. From all the discussions I've seen, it has gone from "Good sorcs were way too op" to "Sorcs were and are a free kill to me"

 

My opinion is, for any good player, sorcs are a free kill. They are incredibly easy to pressure.

 

Coming from a long list of pvp exper5ience in MMO's this has been the weakest ive ever seen healers. The goal seems to be to make them a very minor part of the pvp experience.

 

If you put 1 decent player on a sorc, it is very difficult for them to keep themselves up while healing the group. (an 8man pvp group). Put 2 decent players on a sorc and it is game over. With the amount of control and innterupts any 2 dps can bring, its game over.

People calling out that 3 people on a sorc "cant even scratch them" are way over exxagerating. yes, I have out lived when 3 dps are on me, but because they are terrible and all spam stuns at the same time giving me fulll resolve and not using slows. Another reason I was able to do it is pillar LoS, DPS doesnt know how to work with it.

 

While the bug fix is completely warrented, without having any defensive cd's or emergency heals.... how are sorcs considered OP? Now with our main heal being a ~2.4 sec cast we are definatly a free kill for any decent DPS out there.

 

heres what needs to happen IMO.

-Restore our 1 sec cast reduction

- Scrap life tap - Terrible regen mechanic for a healer - Great for dps sorcs

- I would think sorcs should even get an emergency CD like instant cast.

 

People just need to learn to target healers. 2 dps on a healer is insane to outheal if they are any good. Further more, testing has been done to show that DMG scales with gear better that healing. I believe the ratio was 0.17 healing for 1power to 0.23DMG for 1 power. Healers are going to get easier and easier to kill.

 

On a final note, healers should be very difficult to kill 1v1, this is the only way they could be fun and viable in 8v8 combat. healers will be the primary target in rated wz's and should be able to survive.

 

If anything I thought healing was underpowered in this game already compared to the DPS outputs. new MMO players are just not used to this and catering to the weak should never be done. They should be forced to get better and TARGET HEALERS.

 

I almost always play in a premade with a small group of friends, 2-3 dps. If they both or all target a healer, if there is no other healer helping that person, they go down very fast, no matter the class or skill level

 

TL;DR - HEALERS ARE ONLY OP IN THIS GAME IF THEY ARE ALLOWED TO FREECAST. FOCUS HEALERS AND FIND OUT HOW EASY IT IS.

 

 

 

Sorry if this post is a little sparatic, posting while at work.

[Girltank]

Well said, My main is a Healer sage and whenever I verse good players I have at least 1 melee chasing me around the whole match making it difficult to do anything. Now that I won't have a decent no CD single heal I doubt I'll be able to survive 1 good dps for long making me little more than a walking kill.

 

As a Sentinel DPS I already find Sorcerers the easiest to kill.

[Lithy]

Well said, My main is a Healer sage and whenever I verse good players I have at least 1 melee chasing me around the whole match making it difficult to do anything. Now that I won't have a decent no CD single heal I doubt I'll be able to survive 1 good dps for long making me little more than a walking kill.

 

As a Sentinel DPS I already find Sorcerers the easiest to kill.

 

 

Why isn't your gunslinger or commando killing that melee DPS? Not sure if you're talking premades or PuGs... if it's PuGs I guess I wouldn't expect them to pay attention.

 

As a sniper my main goal besides the actual point gains for holding points etc, is killing anyone and everyone trying to get at our precious healers as well as killing the enemy healers, of course.

Edited April 7, 2012 by Lithy

[Girltank]

Why isn't your gunslinger or commando killing that melee DPS? Not sure if you're talking premades or PuGs... if it's PuGs I guess I wouldn't expect them to pay attention.

 

As a sniper my main goal besides the actual point gains for holding points etc, is killing anyone and everyone trying to get at our precious healers as well as killing the enemy healers, of course.

 

actually I do have a Gunslinger friend usually in the same room as me, we usually pug together or run with guildies. I'll yell at him to kill the dps guy but he's often predisposed of defending and objective, as he's the best I know at actually defending.

[GrimAeshma]

Nevermind that there are often more than one healer in a match so they can keep each other up or if there is a Tank with Guard on the Healer. Or even if both happens...

[MrXen]

Sorry about your class being ruined by whiners. Also..what most ACTUALLY mean when they say "overpowered" is that the sorc/sage shield is annoyingly good and could be toned down slightly.

 

 

That is all sorcs have that is in my opinion. And if your bubble got toned down I wouldn't be against you getting a damage buff or some such to compensate.

[Dharnyle]

Nevermind that there are often more than one healer in a match so they can keep each other up or if there is a Tank with Guard on the Healer. Or even if both happens...

 

Most tanks I see throw their guards on ranged DPS'ers.

 

Then again I usually join the que solo as I'm a off-hours player.

 

I've seen it on 50's and in the 10 - 49 bracket.

 

I stopped asking for a guard because I got tired of being told, "Just heal us, we got this."

[sauerkraut]

I've just finished a Voidstar the usual reb 5 sage 2 trooper 1 jedi so how can we put 2-3 male on each healers? Edited April 7, 2012 by sauerkraut

[Darthbluginal]

I've just finished a Voidstar the usual reb 5 sage 2 trooper 1 jedi so how can we put 2-3 male on each healers?

 

5 Healers in 1 WZ? I really doubt that. If so, if your team had 1-2 healers, no one should ever die in this WZ. And really, what I said was 1 DPS on the healer is enough to make them focus heal themselves, while the rest of the grp gets slaughtered. 2-3 focusing a healer and its Game over for them easy.

 

As for the bubble. My testing shows that fully talented, shield absorbs ~3600 dmg with a 20 second debuff per target. With this being spammable on everyone, yea it can be pretty crazy, but spamming it does hurt the force alot. Also, once again if your focusing a healer they only really have a chance to shield themselves. This would be the utility they bring for wearing light armor imo.

 

Yes I do call for peels. but sometimes its worth it to struggle it out for them to kill the healer first, ussually one person peels for me the other 2 kill the healer. However when im in a pug, 2-3 dps on any healer is an instant kill. No one ever peels in a pug, so by the logic of nerfing us because not enough people target healers in pugs, I should get a buff because no one peels in pugs.....Im kidding ofcourse.

 

But really, healers are almost irrelevant in this game and it is a little dissapointing, my theory is, that they didnt expect people to actually want to play tanks and healers, so they prepared to have it balanced around everyone being DPS.

 

Im a healer, and I want this game to be fun for all healers, with utility,choices, and being a major factor in WZ's. I wish every healer would get a unique cooldown that they could bring to the table.

 

BW announced that they had re opened discussion about healer balancing starting with the Brez for commandos. I was hoping it would be for 1.2, but that is looking slimmer and slimmer.

 

We need meters very badly, so that as a player base we can see whats what.

[therouterninja]

Healers aren't supposed to function without a team. Find a tank guard you, and scream out in vent when you get jumped on. You'll never die again.

[Shredbull]

Sorcs/sages are and always have been a breeze to kill. Once you REALLY focus them , by that I mean actually follow them once they dash , they are nothing more than a thin sheet of paper and you are the watercannon.

 

Sure, they have CC, sure, they have 'epic AoE' (Lol who are we kidding 2-3k hits aren't going to kill alot of people every 10 seconds or so) , and sure, they can heal a fair bit, if they don't get focused by half a player.

 

But let's make 1 thing clear, they do not/did not need a nerf. Once you get on the same grounds as they are (Gear, level, decent talent build, half a brain) , they are nothing more than a blow up doll waiting for your nail gun to attack. Once gear is equal and you interrupt their force light spam once (Which should barely tickle you if you're in BM gear) they are pretty much useless.

 

They may seem strong but that is ONLY because people give up too easily. A sorcerer dashes away and the enemy just thinks oh well I'll just target something else. If a sorcerer gets properly focused by ANY class he dies without killing a single enemy.

 

The incoming nerfs are simply stupid and nerf the possibilities of having a decent killcount even more. The dps tree will be essentially useless, it has low duration DoT's with no burst AT ALL, costs a ******** of force to maintain decent dps, and has no survivability. (Madness tree) Lightning tree is just bad bad dps since it's interruptable and has no damage output. Hybrid trees got destroyed by bioware in 1.2, and healing got nerfed to a point where a decent heal is a 2.5 second cast, thus easily interruptable for anyone with half a brain and an interrupt button.

 

Sorcerers will soon be the least played class, and with soon I mean a few months after 1.2

 

It's not like everyone will just reroll to assassin/PT..... OH WAIT ! they already are.

 

May I refer you to some beginner planets and/or the 10-49 brackets? You will see a ton of FoTM classes, mostly powertechs, assassins and marauders.

 

Not like the rerollers will be any good at these classes, yet still, this is a sign sorcerers are unplayable at end game PvP, that is even before 1.2, and now they are getting a nerfbat to the nuts.

 

I will be playing mine for farming reasons only, perhaps crew skills, or perhaps can be used in the legacy system.

 

As of right now I am enjoying my level 40 powertech, I own sorcerers in less than 10 seconds, due to the lovely thing called railshot!

[Ryotknife]

sorcs are extremely good in huttball. actually they are mandatory in huttball.

 

as for void and civil war? they are a balanced class. 1v1 is meaningless unless you are a stealther. i dont agree with the nerfs, but sorcs are by far not the worst class in competitive pvp. actually they are better in competitive than non competitive.

Edited April 7, 2012 by Ryotknife

[Korghal]

The problem in PvP isnt Sorce healers, its sorc dps who can out dps/cc etc out any other class right now. Their burst dps alone is insane, ive seen a tank with full battlemaster go down in less then 10 seconds from a single sorc nuking...

[Varthag]

Coming from a certain previous MMO, where healers would just mindlessly spam stuff and outlast any uncoordinated group focusing them, it's really a breeze playing a game that actually balances healing with dps.

 

The way I see it, healers are good as long as they are guarded, which is the way it should be. You're not supposed to stand between multiple dps opponents being nigh-immortal while they pummel you with fury.

 

Healers are in a decent state now, nerf them and they will become irrelevant.

[flem]

Healers are getting a big indirect buff from the Expertise cap lift in 1.2.

[Steele_dk]

- I would think sorcs should even get an emergency CD like instant cast.

 

This ▲

 

As it is now, even with shield up, sorc/sages are the easiest target to take down.

[Cheeseblaster]

The problem in PvP isnt Sorce healers, its sorc dps who can out dps/cc etc out any other class right now. Their burst dps alone is insane, ive seen a tank with full battlemaster go down in less then 10 seconds from a single sorc nuking...

 

this is because tank armor does nothing to mitigate a sorc lightning attack, it essentially ignores tank armor.

 

true 1v1 anybody should be able to take out a sorc. problem is this is PVP and you are usually never in a true 1v1 situation. chain healing can keep a sorc upright for a long time.

 

not a bad idea to concentrate on distracting a sroc healer, but keep them busy and chase them around. if someone else is healing them while you are chasing them, then you are now keeping 2 players busy with 1 person... That's a good advantage especially if you essentially take a couple healers away from the melee. Even if a DPS comes over to help you are still occupying 2 opponents with 1 player.

Edited April 7, 2012 by Cheeseblaster

[Haeso]

Why isn't your gunslinger or commando killing that melee DPS? Not sure if you're talking premades or PuGs... if it's PuGs I guess I wouldn't expect them to pay attention.

 

As a sniper my main goal besides the actual point gains for holding points etc, is killing anyone and everyone trying to get at our precious healers as well as killing the enemy healers, of course.

 

Killing DPS in a premade is stupid unless the healers are dead or CC'd. 9/10 better off focusing healers and CCing DPS.

 

this is because tank armor does nothing to mitigate a sorc lightning attack, it essentially ignores tank armor.

 

You're wrong. Only the dots ignore armor.

Edited April 7, 2012 by Haeso

[Thundartwothree]

Sky is falling, QQ, poor you. Start a support group. The class only makes up almost 20% of the playerbase, I'm sure you'll draw large crowds to your meetings.

 

Honestly. You're getting a nerf, if its too much they may compensate in some way later on down the road. And you know what? In the next patch some other AC will get nerfed, and they'll QQ endlessly about it to. OH HEY the patch after that, ANOTHER class will get nerfed and they'll QQ aswell and the cycle continues.

 

Will people quit the AC and do something else? Yep they will! They roll another class, it'll take them a month both to level and gear that one out, they'll play it for a month. It'll be fun, then guess what?! THAT AC will get nerfed and people wll do it all over again. Do you know why? Because thats how you retain the PvP player base(atleast for awhile, then they just quit for the next big thing). The FOTM cycle is just another way for subscription rentention, and make no mistake Sorc/Sage is FOTM, next month it may be Mara/Sent or hell even Snipers or some other thing, but rest assured the cycle will continue, people will be re-rollin like champs.

 

Sadley thats what MMO's consider balance. Not real balance between classes but a balance to as who or what AC or spec or class is OP, even slightly, on any given month. Thats the design, it happened in that other MMO, its now happening in this one. Something will be marginally to strong, hell it may even just be percieved as too strong and the masses will flock to it, then it'll get nerfed and the masses will pitch a fit about it. Get used to it, thats the lazy design being followed, thats the reason why Esports viewing of MMO PvP is low, its boring its damn near predictable and its wrong, but there you have it, thats the way it works, and it isnt changing aslong as people throw money in for that next month, that next FOTM.

[GRINnBARRETT]

I'm not advocating for any kind of nerf but a guarded healer is not easy to kill, especially if they are rolling in a premade where their players know how to peel or they are running more than 1 healer.

 

Now that's honesty.

[Calista_ZK]

Sorry about your class being ruined by whiners. Also..what most ACTUALLY mean when they say "overpowered" is that the sorc/sage shield is annoyingly good and could be toned down slightly.

 

 

That is all sorcs have that is in my opinion. And if your bubble got toned down I wouldn't be against you getting a damage buff or some such to compensate.

 

Seriously, you must never have played at endgame when the bubble is taken down during one hit. We can't re-apply our bubble right away ... even more of a problem if a sage/sorc is DPS spec.

 

Fine the way it is ty.

[Calista_ZK]

The problem in PvP isnt Sorce healers, its sorc dps who can out dps/cc etc out any other class right now. Their burst dps alone is insane, ive seen a tank with full battlemaster go down in less then 10 seconds from a single sorc nuking...

 

Ummm...no, unless he took off his gear, or was extremely undergeared relative to that sorc.

 

Sorc/sage dps is average in live, will go down to bad (for PVP) in 1.2 as a previous poster has very eloquently explained. In the balance spec once again force is an issue and you kill too slowly. TK build doesn't give the mobility for PVP and the 31 pt skill is a joke for damage.

 

Even in live, in hybrid, our burst is not "insane" ROFL, all it provide for DPS is very good consistent AOE and fantastic force management.

[Darthbluginal]

Sky is falling, QQ, poor you. Start a support group. The class only makes up almost 20% of the playerbase, I'm sure you'll draw large crowds to your meetings.

 

Honestly. You're getting a nerf, if its too much they may compensate in some way later on down the road. And you know what? In the next patch some other AC will get nerfed, and they'll QQ endlessly about it to. OH HEY the patch after that, ANOTHER class will get nerfed and they'll QQ aswell and the cycle continues.

 

Will people quit the AC and do something else? Yep they will! They roll another class, it'll take them a month both to level and gear that one out, they'll play it for a month. It'll be fun, then guess what?! THAT AC will get nerfed and people wll do it all over again. Do you know why? Because thats how you retain the PvP player base(atleast for awhile, then they just quit for the next big thing). The FOTM cycle is just another way for subscription rentention, and make no mistake Sorc/Sage is FOTM, next month it may be Mara/Sent or hell even Snipers or some other thing, but rest assured the cycle will continue, people will be re-rollin like champs.

 

Sadley thats what MMO's consider balance. Not real balance between classes but a balance to as who or what AC or spec or class is OP, even slightly, on any given month. Thats the design, it happened in that other MMO, its now happening in this one. Something will be marginally to strong, hell it may even just be percieved as too strong and the masses will flock to it, then it'll get nerfed and the masses will pitch a fit about it. Get used to it, thats the lazy design being followed, thats the reason why Esports viewing of MMO PvP is low, its boring its damn near predictable and its wrong, but there you have it, thats the way it works, and it isnt changing aslong as people throw money in for that next month, that next FOTM.

 

Im not claiming the sky is falling. You clearly do not know the mechanics of a sorc. Having our primary heal stuck at 2.5 second cast in pvp is crazy to get off. And our regen mechanic has been broken. Yes it was overpowered before, but this was not the change needed.

 

This isn't WoW, sorry if im not complacent like you and accept that one class will always be broken. I like this game, and i will be holding it to the highest standards. Sorry if you are a Sadist, but I am not.

 

Im not playing FoTM, I decided a very long time before release that this would be the class I would play, and I will not be rerolling because my class is broken. Just giving the feedback that they asked for.

 

Grow up a little

[dronepilot]

People calling out that 3 people on a sorc "cant even scratch them" are way over exxagerating. yes, I have out lived when 3 dps are on me, but because they are terrible and all spam stuns at the same time giving me fulll resolve and not using slows. Another reason I was able to do it is pillar LoS, DPS doesnt know how to work with it.

 

This is actually quite true, I see many times in Warzones, stuns etc still going in, when the resolve bar is full. I admit I made the same mistakes, and we learn from them.. I used to neglect to look at the resolve bar, it the heat of things that's going on around you.

I certainly pay more attention to it now.

 

Well Sorcerers are not a problem to kill these days, nor by the looks of it your mirror class the seer sage healer. I think maybe part of this is down to their gear, and expertise maybe, as they are all calculating factors in just how much damage your taking, from dps.

Edited April 7, 2012 by dronepilot

[olagaton]

No sympathy here. Healers are the sole role that can control whether a team wins or loses. Healers effectively change the approach to any WZ. If there are more than one on a team, everything gets thrown upside down.

 

I can only assume that the OP's scenario involves either an undergeared healer compared to the DPSers, or overgeared DPSers compared to the healer. All classes will lose the fight 1v2 if the 2 parties are of equal gear and skill, so I don't see what point the OP is trying to make.

 

1v1 fights should go both ways, given equal gear and equal skill.

 

I also think the OP underestimates the amount of DPS that is lost because of CC done on them as well. I've chased around healers on my DPS class for entire WZ's before, unable to kill them because kill them for various reasons, including no burst DPS skills, being CC'd regularly, being focused down myself, movement patterns by the healer, etc. DPS on the healers is not always as consistent as the OP believes, especially when the type of DPS a team has is dependant on the class composition of the team.

Edited April 7, 2012 by olagaton