How do you kill anything as a commando/merc?

[Niconogood]

I dont mean the times you are assisting other players or those people thats stands in your face even though they start the fight at a shrivel of hp or are immensely undergeared and still think they can take you out.

 

Im talking about the people that realize they would probably die and decides to run to fight another day.

 

Commandos dont have

- real snares

- roots

- gap closers

- speed boosts

- also damageabilities are channeled/casttimed thus easily losed, and easily interrupted

- interrupts to stop channels/healings

 

What you see among good players is that they know when to retreat and how to do it. My thesis is that in these kinda scenarios commandos wouldnt be able to kill anything (except obviously other commandos). I already have problems finishing off the real good players around, and I find myself completely gimped out of any tools to do it. Cryo grenade every 1 min or so doesnt really cut it.

 

I would totally accept the dungheap of nerfs we receive in 1.2 if we could just get any resolve around this issue (give us snares, interrupts, speedboost/jump), cause as of now I dont really see any use of commandos in competetive PvP.

 

The class is simply not fun to play given the glaring lack of any utility, even more so with 1.2.

Edited April 4, 2012 by Niconogood

[NeverRose]

+1 OP. This pretty much summs up Commando class in PvP. I feel like a channeling turret with no means of survive/escape.

 

 

Yup, cryo, woo hoo.

 

Snare on chanelled ability (watafawk?)

 

Heavy armor (Internal dmg anyone? Armor penetration anyone?)

 

 

This class is bu****** but I rolled a commando alt just for the looks anyways.

 

 

Healing side is a little bit better but 1.2 is coming ;D

Edited April 4, 2012 by NeverRose

[Goibhnie]

While I completely understand your sentiment and agree that we lack in the 'finishing' department. Soloing just isn't our game. Yes, from time to time I'll get that rare assassin notice, but as you stated good players know when to cut and run. We are a turret that deals heavy damage and I think the best point defender around. I think our best skill is concussion charge and isn't utilized enough by other commandos. If you know how to use it, timing and angles, you can have a lot of fun at the other groups expense. We are grouping class overall.

 

I wouldn't turn down talented HiB or Explosive Round that slowed/snared/knocked down though.

[Niconogood]

What really annoys me is that you have to tabtarget all the time. You nuke someone for a couple a seconds.. He runs LoS and heals.. Nothing you can do but press tab and hope to get a couple shots on another target... Or if hes really low and theres no LoS opportunity nearby he can just use one of the multitude of defensive CDs available to other classes... camo, sprint, immunity etcetc. Basically the only classes wo any sort of worthwhile defensive CD is Assaultvanguard and of course commando. Even gunslingers get an immunity to damage for 3 seconds or so.

 

Commando is the ONLY class in the game that you can nuke down 100% of the time with no regard to defensive CDs, cause they simply have none. No wonder commandos are everyones favorite target. At the same time they are so susceptible to counters from other classes with no abilities to chase, get away from harms way or even interrupt.

 

AND they are given the ultimate nerfshaft of all classes in 1.2, without given anything back.. Oh wait.. we get combatrez.. That will come in handy when 2 marauders are beating on me.

 

Imo BW got this all wrong.By gimping an already gimped class they succeed in nothing but removing them from the game. If I felt all these nerfs were justified I would continue playing. But as it stands Im just dumbfounded by the suggested nerfs and have lost all faith in BWs devteam for this game.

 

I used to have high hopes for 1.2, and that it could be the patch that saved the game. But instead of reviving a patient on lifesupport, they accidentally pulled the plug alltogether. See you guys in Diablo III.

Edited April 4, 2012 by Niconogood

[HileyQuiggley]

Why do we not have any more CC ect..?

 

Because we can strait up brute force take someone down. Done it thousands of times, I dont need CC when I deal 10k in 3 seconds.

 

For real guys, if your complaining about Commandos then you obviously cannot play one. Your the hardest hitting class in the game. Maybe not in 1 ability but combined. I play alot of WZ's every single day and every single WZ I am #1 DPS by at least 100k most of the time. The class is a cake walk and a DPS mad man.

 

Grav Round= 2.2-3.3k

HIB= 1.8-3.5k

Demo= 2.5-5.4k

FA= 1.2-2.2k tic

Stockstrike= 1.5-2.9k

MV= 1.0-2.5k tic

Sticky= 1.2-2.3k

Plasma= 1.4-1.8k + tic

 

Nobody else can do all of this with so many abilities. We dont have a single weak sauce ability. Yes you will get interupted, have CB on your bars and use FA and all sorts of instas.

 

Above all else STOP COMPLAINING.

[Dylancholy]

The most ideal way to kill things is by using your skills.

[Niconogood]

Whats your point? Our skills do damage? Yes, most classes have skills that do damage. However what we are talking about is our ability to finish people off. Doing 2-3k damage every 1,5 sec on geared players is not enough to kill them in an instant. They got 18-19k hp, so you need at least 10 sec+ of them standing perfectly still doing nothing to go through that.

 

I precisely said geared, skilled players. Not random scrubs. Killing those is have never been an issue. Im just trying to prepare you for what ranked WZs will be like on the higher levels, and how commando is very lackluster in that department.

 

Any good player will just LoS you, heal up and do whatever they please. If they want to kill you, they jump on you, spam interrupt, CC you - knockback you through reactive shield and kill you, if they want to run away, they run away. Commandos have no ways to counter that. I can honestly say Ive never been killed by a commando/merc in a 1v1 scenario ever since I got geared a month or so ago. Currently valor 78. Worst case, they catch me while Im low, I just LoS. They got no root, no snare and that stun is only good for 4-6k damage at best given tenacity is on CD.

Edited April 5, 2012 by Niconogood

[NeverRose]

Why do we not have any more CC ect..?

 

 

Grav Round= 2.2-3.3k

HIB= 1.8-3.5k

Demo= 2.5-5.4k

FA= 1.2-2.2k tic

Stockstrike= 1.5-2.9k

MV= 1.0-2.5k tic

Sticky= 1.2-2.3k

Plasma= 1.4-1.8k + tic

 

 

I can deal 4K+ on my dps kinetic shadow with spinning strike, 1,5K-2K a tick from TTK, around 1,5 K with slow time, projects everywhere between 2K-3K.

 

 

I also have guard.

 

And stealth + force cloak for sticky situations.

 

And HP regen on hit.

 

And 45% shield chance with 22% defense.

 

And pull.

 

And force speed.

 

And two taunts.

 

And AoE slow combined with dmg reduction.

 

 

 

 

 

So what is your point exactly?

 

 

Commando is just bad design. if they wanted them to be total turrets they would have to give them some more Area of Denial skills.

 

 

Yes, my commando alt is fun to play only when no one bothers you and you can pew pew away.

 

Yes it's also fun healing, as long as you don't have 2+ proper dps on you (With 1 I can usually deal) but that's till 1.2 hits.

 

 

 

And yes Nicono is right. Only scrubs won't gank up on commando.

Edited April 5, 2012 by NeverRose

[TUXs]

Whats your point? Our skills do damage? Yes, most classes have skills that do damage. However what we are talking about is our ability to finish people off. Doing 2-3k damage every 1,5 sec on geared players is not enough to kill them in an instant. They got 18-19k hp, so you need at least 10 sec+ of them standing perfectly still doing nothing to go through that.

 

I precisely said geared, skilled players. Not random scrubs. Killing those is have never been an issue. Im just trying to prepare you for what ranked WZs will be like on the higher levels, and how commando is very lackluster in that department.

 

Any good player will just LoS you, heal up and do whatever they please. If they want to kill you, they jump on you, spam interrupt, CC you - knockback you through reactive shield and kill you, if they want to run away, they run away. Commandos have no ways to counter that. I can honestly say Ive never been killed by a commando/merc in a 1v1 scenario ever since I got geared a month or so ago. Currently valor 78. Worst case, they catch me while Im low, I just LoS. They got no root, no snare and that stun is only good for 4-6k damage at best given tenacity is on CD.

Sadly, this is quite true.

[DeltaEkotte]

First off being a channeling turret works just fine if you can get to a good spot. For Hutt Ball, ie; on the upper walkway looking over the ball spawn, or standing at the top of the ramp that you go out on when you spawn and jump on top of the terminals in Civil War.

Second, Commando/Merc are healing adv classes. Yes the gunnery tree makes you spit out a **** load of damage and only a small precentage of commandos are actually healers. In terms of skill trees and abilities, Commando = Operative. Both have a healing tree and a high dps tree.

And lastly, what you are saying goes for ANY healing class. 3 of the 5 healing abilites are channeled for Commando and the same for Merc I think. And teamates will also just run off while you are trying to heal them just like when your target tries to get away from you.

[ArcIon]

Niconogood is right on the money on this one.

 

Let's face it, Commando is already the number 1 priority target right now because it's an easy kill. And 1.2 is doing nothing but making that more true. It's almost humerous how fast people break off what they are doing and gang bang commandos when they hit the scene. My favorite is when you get in a wz w/ like 5-6 sorcs and they just take turns force lightning you to death. and grav round is what really needs the nerf right?

[NeverRose]

It's almost humerous how fast people break off what they are doing and gang bang commandos when they hit the scene.

 

 

This is so true. I saw people breaking of from planting bomb/caping turret (Which is quite frankly idiotic) not to CC but to simply roflstomp my commando alt.

[Joshrus]

 

Grav Round= 2.2-3.3k

HIB= 1.8-3.5k

Demo= 2.5-5.4k

FA= 1.2-2.2k tic

Stockstrike= 1.5-2.9k

MV= 1.0-2.5k tic

Sticky= 1.2-2.3k

Plasma= 1.4-1.8k + tic

 

Nobody else can do all of this with so many abilities. We dont have a single weak sauce ability. Yes you will get interupted, have CB on your bars and use FA and all sorts of instas.

 

Above all else STOP COMPLAINING.

 

Hi battlemaster cm champ/bm gear here. My alt is a 42 shadow.

 

All iam going to say if someone. Let's you shoot off a grav round or fa, shame on them.

 

I love my shadow, I can lockdown any healer, commando merc.

 

You will not get 1 grav round off vs me.

By the time you see me your at half health.

By the time. You hit the shield button, you've just wasted it cuz I finished you off with a spinning strike.

 

I have

 

Mind snap- interrupts. An ability and it can't be reused for 4 secs. 12 sec cd

Force stun- stuns target for 4 secs 1 min cd

Low slash- dazes target for 4 secs 12 sec cd

Force wave- knockback 20 sec cd

Force cloak- vanish 2 min cd

Force lift- 8 sec daze forget the cd

 

All of these I can inteerupt your casting. Now for defence.

 

Resilence- removes dots and immune to force and tech abilites 3 secs. 1 min cd

Defence increase- increases def by 50% for 8 secs (around that time)

 

Anti kite-

 

Force run- 120 % speed for 3 secs

Force slow- slows target speed by 60% cd 9 secs lasts 12 secs ( I have the talent)

 

What does a commando have?

 

Inteerupts

 

Concusive charge- aoe kd 15 cd

Cyro- 4 sec stun 1 min cd

Stocstrike- kb

Concussive shot- cc

 

Anti kite-

Nothing. Wait sorry wimpy full auto crap that sucks and only lasts the fa length.

 

Defence-

 

Shield- reduces dmage lasts 12 sec.

 

 

My shadow will hit you everything instant and crit almost every hit, anytime you cast I will have an abilty to prevent you. You will try to cryo me, I will pop force of will. You will try to knock me back only to find the gap is not much of a gap after all. You will use your shield, only to see yourself die 1 second slower.

 

I am a jedi shadow no sir, you will not cast. ( epic ending) lol.

 

( my cd times may be off by a few off of memory)

 

 

You sir are pvping noobs or being ignored. You will run into an assasian like me one day. Then you will see what these othe people are talking about .

[ArcIon]

Hi battlemaster cm champ/bm gear here. My alt is a 42 shadow.

 

All iam going to say if someone. Let's you shoot off a grav round or fa, shame on them.

 

I love my shadow, I can lockdown any healer, commando merc.

 

You will not get 1 grav round off vs me.

By the time you see me your at half health.

By the time. You hit the shield button, you've just wasted it cuz I finished you off with a spinning strike.

 

I have

 

Mind snap- interrupts. An ability and it can't be reused for 4 secs. 12 sec cd

Force stun- stuns target for 4 secs 1 min cd

Low slash- dazes target for 4 secs 12 sec cd

Force wave- knockback 20 sec cd

Force cloak- vanish 2 min cd

Force lift- 8 sec daze forget the cd

 

All of these I can inteerupt your casting. Now for defence.

 

Resilence- removes dots and immune to force and tech abilites 3 secs. 1 min cd

Defence increase- increases def by 50% for 8 secs (around that time)

 

Anti kite-

 

Force run- 120 % speed for 3 secs

Force slow- slows target speed by 60% cd 9 secs lasts 12 secs ( I have the talent)

 

What does a commando have?

 

Inteerupts

 

Concusive charge- aoe kd 15 cd

Cyro- 4 sec stun 1 min cd

Stocstrike- kb

Concussive shot- cc

 

Anti kite-

Nothing. Wait sorry wimpy full auto crap that sucks and only lasts the fa length.

 

Defence-

 

Shield- reduces dmage lasts 12 sec.

 

 

My shadow will hit you everything instant and crit almost every hit, anytime you cast I will have an abilty to prevent you. You will try to cryo me, I will pop force of will. You will try to knock me back only to find the gap is not much of a gap after all. You will use your shield, only to see yourself die 1 second slower.

 

I am a jedi shadow no sir, you will not cast. ( epic ending) lol.

 

( my cd times may be off by a few off of memory)

 

 

You sir are pvping noobs or being ignored. You will run into an assasian like me one day. Then you will see what these othe people are talking about .

 

 

lol this makes me laugh and cry at the same time. nice post btw.

 

BIOWARE - COME ON! just plain facts here....

[rydgaze]

I play an assault vanguard and can sympathize with OP. Gunnery commands while having great DPS are quite easy to take down. They can shine against a noob opponents, but with a decent pug (not even a premade), they are priority targets just below healers (infact I detour to take them out before the healers since they are so easy to take out).

 

The very first run into WZ, if I see my health dropping fast then I know it is either a sniper or TM spammer and make sure to handle them every time I get a chance after rez. The fact that they cant really kite (and cannot interrupt a VG) makes it cake.

 

It seems like BW really wants commando's to be healers primarily in pvp(which they are quite good at) and dps in pve. They really should give utility for the commando DPS to be viable.

 

This is going to get ugly with glut of tankasins/juggs/maras come 1.2

[TUXs]

Hi battlemaster cm champ/bm gear here. My alt is a 42 shadow.

 

All iam going to say if someone. Let's you shoot off a grav round or fa, shame on them.

 

I love my shadow, I can lockdown any healer, commando merc.

 

You will not get 1 grav round off vs me.

By the time you see me your at half health.

By the time. You hit the shield button, you've just wasted it cuz I finished you off with a spinning strike.

 

I have

 

Mind snap- interrupts. An ability and it can't be reused for 4 secs. 12 sec cd

Force stun- stuns target for 4 secs 1 min cd

Low slash- dazes target for 4 secs 12 sec cd

Force wave- knockback 20 sec cd

Force cloak- vanish 2 min cd

Force lift- 8 sec daze forget the cd

 

All of these I can inteerupt your casting. Now for defence.

 

Resilence- removes dots and immune to force and tech abilites 3 secs. 1 min cd

Defence increase- increases def by 50% for 8 secs (around that time)

 

Anti kite-

 

Force run- 120 % speed for 3 secs

Force slow- slows target speed by 60% cd 9 secs lasts 12 secs ( I have the talent)

 

What does a commando have?

 

Inteerupts

 

Concusive charge- aoe kd 15 cd

Cyro- 4 sec stun 1 min cd

Stocstrike- kb

Concussive shot- cc

 

Anti kite-

Nothing. Wait sorry wimpy full auto crap that sucks and only lasts the fa length.

 

Defence-

 

Shield- reduces dmage lasts 12 sec.

 

 

My shadow will hit you everything instant and crit almost every hit, anytime you cast I will have an abilty to prevent you. You will try to cryo me, I will pop force of will. You will try to knock me back only to find the gap is not much of a gap after all. You will use your shield, only to see yourself die 1 second slower.

 

I am a jedi shadow no sir, you will not cast. ( epic ending) lol.

 

( my cd times may be off by a few off of memory)

 

 

You sir are pvping noobs or being ignored. You will run into an assasian like me one day. Then you will see what these othe people are talking about .

 

Dude...EPIC post!!! This is EXACTLY the problem we have in PvP. Good players will NOT lose to a Commando...EVER! There are just too many gaps in Commando's skills that we simply can not compete with evenly skilled players.

[ATango]

Although I understand your concern with the survivability of Commandos and agree you need more I will have to add to the concept of support range class. You stand at range and blow stuff up. Or in other words, you back up meat shields aka melee classes. The melee class should peel for you if you draw attention. Unfortunately, most don't.

 

I will advise trying out fake casting. You can either cast a healing ability and have them interrupt that so you can continue spamming grav rounds or tracer missiles or cast grav round and jump shortly after cancelling the cast and latency normally handles the rest resulting in a wasted interrupt. I'm a vanguard but if I was a commando that's what I would do. You guys are ridiculous when you are left untouched and when you have reliable peelers.

 

Once you start running with a group and in vent or TS it will be a lot more bearable. You have an instant "Get this guy off of me" which is followed by an immediate response.

 

It is very hard to balance any game around 1v1. There are always classes that do better than others in 1v1 encounters. If you played an Arcane Mage in WoW early Cataclysm you would know what I mean. I didn't but they were always on the top priority above healers for the same reason. Great supporting class damage-wise but when focused they had very few means to get away and hence a quick death.

 

TLDR; Try fake casting and/or running with a group for a better WZ experience.

[HileyQuiggley]

I really dont care what abilities you have to counter mine. They dont work, so you can lock down every single attack I have huh? No you cant. I will stand toe to toe with anyone and mow them down. Commandos are just fine, it was not a fairy tale when I said I was number 1 dps every single WZ. It is a proven fact. Unless I (Yes, I) somehow choose not to be.

(Like say I want to run without a weapon or try heals out a match) The class is easy like that.

 

Just for giggles, I have a lvl 50 modded set of the light armor pilot suit (Social Rank 1) I wore one Voidstar match. Still top DPS

 

You guys must not be playing a Commando. Im not sure what this thread is about.

Edited April 6, 2012 by HileyQuiggley

[Khensu]

First off - Im speaking from a totally ignorant standpoint here, I've leveled a single class (operative) to level 50 because I have limited play time. I'm not trying to start a fight here, this is what I see on my server.

 

If troopers are so gimped, then why are there 4-5 of them in EVERY WZ I play? They all wear heavy armor, can heal, guard and lay down dmg. From my POV, they are over-powered when skilled correctly. If you have two troopers on a turret they can effectively hold it for several minutes at least, unless you have 5-2\6-2 odds. Every WZ I play will be 6-7 odd Troopers\Sages and the random Guardian and Smuggler here and there.

 

I think dual-specing is over-powered in this game right now and that's what needs to be fixed.

[TUXs]

I really dont care what abilities you have to counter mine. They dont work, so you can lock down every single attack I have huh? No you cant. I will stand toe to toe with anyone and mow them down. Commandos are just fine, it was not a fairy tale when I said I was number 1 dps every single WZ. It is a proven fact. Unless I (Yes, I) somehow choose not to be.

(Like say I want to run without a weapon or try heals out a match) The class is easy like that.

 

Just for giggles, I have a lvl 50 modded set of the light armor pilot suit (Social Rank 1) I wore one Voidstar match. Still top DPS

 

You guys must not be playing a Commando. Im not sure what this thread is about.

 

RP or PvE server? I really can't believe a thing you're saying...maybe post your epic build or provide something other than an outrageous claim.

[Joshrus]

RP or PvE server? I really can't believe a thing you're saying...maybe post your epic build or provide something other than an outrageous claim.

 

Rp for sure.

[Merc_Cmdr]

I really dont care what abilities you have to counter mine. They dont work, so you can lock down every single attack I have huh? No you cant. I will stand toe to toe with anyone and mow them down. Commandos are just fine, it was not a fairy tale when I said I was number 1 dps every single WZ. It is a proven fact. Unless I (Yes, I) somehow choose not to be.

(Like say I want to run without a weapon or try heals out a match) The class is easy like that.

 

trololol

[Comieb]

Actually the more ive been playing a dps commando the more im seeing the squishiness. As a combat medic i pretty much assumed i was being focused down.

 

I may present this somewhat flippantly, but i would definately like some of our mechanic gurus to consider this.

 

What is the point in the armor types? As it stands in PvP having heavy armor vs having light armor gets you almost no benefits.

In PvE a tank is a tank and we have them in Heavy and in Light armor, yes im aware of the Shadow armor buff to mitigate some of the incoming damage but if that is all, and considering we have other tanking mechanics - shield rating, dodge and parries.

 

As it stands the bonus of having heavy armor is negated by players dealing non energy or kinetic damage, ontop of the existence of expertise.

 

If the different armor types is due to RP settings. Then let me tell you, Id rather run around in trooper armor (RP wise) as my Smuggler than a cloth chestpiece... cos blaster fire hurts.

Edited April 7, 2012 by Comieb

[HileyQuiggley]

PvP server. Infinite Empire. Quiggley DownUnder

 

Full BM with 2 piece Rakata for Grav Crit

 

 

Not a troll, not a joke. If you cant out dps someone thats a problem you need to work on. You dont want to believe me thats fine, I love my class.

[Niconogood]

PvP server. Infinite Empire. Quiggley DownUnder

 

Full BM with 2 piece Rakata for Grav Crit

 

 

Not a troll, not a joke. If you cant out dps someone thats a problem you need to work on. You dont want to believe me thats fine, I love my class.

 

I dont think you understand the issue here. Most people can score high numbers with commando if they are left unchecked. Confined to hiding in the back, ramp in huttball etc. its no problem scoring 300k+, 500k+ in voidstar.

 

But then again, most players are scrubs. What worries me is the impact on the class with rated WZs. Yes, killing scrubs is fun and so, but against good players that will rate high, theres simply no way in hell you will be able to kill them. Everyone you target will simply flip you the finger and LoS, or just jump on you, interrupt you and kill you without you being able to do much of anything, due to nonexistent defensive capabilities.

 

Yes, I see a place for commando DpS in the scrub end of rated WZs. In the above middle to highend however, theres simply no room for a gimped class like this.

Edited April 10, 2012 by Niconogood