The main problem with huttball

[Cataphractone]

Environmental and Situational awareness.

 

Lets look at three situations.

 

Situation A: We have one player with the ball in mid, he will be X, and we have another player on the catwalk above mid, he will be Y.

 

X is a bad player with no awareness. Y is a good player with enough awareness to get in good positions.

 

X knows he has the ball and his only thought is he must score. He doesn't see that Y is in a better spot to score than he is, so he can't make the pass that would help.

 

However, Y is a sorcerer/sage. Y knows that being up here is better because most of their team is in mid attacking X. X has no idea what is about to happen, but Y pulls him to safety and they run merrily along and score.

 

Situation B: Same as above. X is in mid with the ball, and Y is on the catwalk.

 

This time however Y is not a sorcerer or sage. The only thing Y can do is say "PASS" in ops chat and jump up and down. With X not having enough awareness to know where Y is, he dies as he gets stunned and rooted by the other team.

 

Situation C: Both X and Y are good players with good awareness. Neither of them is a sorcerer/sage or a guardian/juggernaut. X passes to Y. This accomplishes what happens in situations A in one way, but instead of the added benefit of having another person to help with support of the carrier.

 

So there you have it. One situation ends with two players in a better position without both of them needing to know how to set it up, and the other ends with the other team having the ball. And the final situation ends with one players with the ball alone on the catwalk.

Edited April 3, 2012 by Cataphractone

[Darthshnooky]

And what's your point?

 

Good players will make the most of a situation and be successful.

 

We all know that certain classes are better at certain roles -- especially in Huttball. Jugg/Guard and Sorc/Sage are tremendous when it comes to ball carrying. Just as other classes are good at other roles (stopping a carrier, aiding a carrier, slowing defense, helping hold mid for repop, etc).

 

What you describe is a situation in which player skill trumps all. Class selection is a close second, but that's just the nature of the game. Nothing in your breakdown reveals any "problem".

[Cataphractone]

And what's your point?

 

Good players will make the most of a situation and be successful.

 

We all know that certain classes are better at certain roles -- especially in Huttball. Jugg/Guard and Sorc/Sage are tremendous when it comes to ball carrying. Just as other classes are good at other roles (stopping a carrier, aiding a carrier, slowing defense, helping hold mid for repop, etc).

 

What you describe is a situation in which player skill trumps all. Class selection is a close second, but that's just the nature of the game. Nothing in your breakdown reveals any "problem".

 

Class Selection IS the problem.

 

An equally skilled Commando can not pull a bad player out of a bad situation like he could if he was on a sage.

 

The sage pulling a bad player up is still better than two good players passing to each other.

[Darthshnooky]

Class Selection IS the problem.

 

An equally skilled Commando can not pull a bad player out of a bad situation like he could if he was on a sage.

 

The sage pulling a bad player up is still better than two good players passing to each other.

 

But that's the whole point of having 8 different classes (counting ACs, not base classes) in the game. They have differences and bring different things to the table. That Commando can pull an enemy into a fire trap -- the Sorc/Sage cannot. Different classes have different abilities for different situations.

 

That's not a problem, it's an asset in this game. No one wants to the see the level of class homogenization going on in WoW in this game. On a premade team, you can plan for this and set up useful and effective combos. In a PuG, well, sometimes you get lucky and sometimes you're done in 4 minutes and thankful for the 2 medals you managed to get in the stomping you took.

[Battilea]

Yes, classes are imbalanced in Huttball. And it'll stay that way until BioWare does something like make charges and pulls on the ball carrier go only half the distance they currently do and caps the max speed of the ball carrier.

 

Until then, classes with the ability the pass the ball carrier will have a sizable advantage over those without it.

[Antipathize]

God forbid the non dps classes have a role in a warzone

[Battilea]

But that's the whole point of having 8 different classes (counting ACs, not base classes) in the game. They have differences and bring different things to the table. That Commando can pull an enemy into a fire trap -- the Sorc/Sage cannot. Different classes have different abilities for different situations.

 

Yup, list a class with a pull and a charge as a reason why it is balanced

 

What is worth noting is that, if you removed those abilities in regards to helping a friendly ball carrier, those classes would still be some of the best for huttball, just due to mobility. Charges to get up on places for passes or back into defense. Force speed to get into position for a pass. And so on.

Edited April 3, 2012 by Battilea

[cronpants]

Class Selection IS the problem.

 

An equally skilled Commando can not pull a bad player out of a bad situation like he could if he was on a sage.

 

The sage pulling a bad player up is still better than two good players passing to each other.

 

Your logic is flawed.

[Brool]

today's society/gaming communities are so fubared in the head thinking everything's got to be on an even playing field. This "so and so is op fix it", "this map is broken because i cant sprint" is for the birds.

 

Im starting to feel like the only people who whine are the ones that are not smart enough to figure a counter to said problem.

 

Sages's have pull/sprint... so what, they can still be beat.

 

Guards/sents have force leap... boo hoo deal with it...

 

Guess what, gun slingers can turtle up and just grenade spam the doors in voidstar every 3 seconds... guess what, good players can still get past it.

 

It makes me sick to my stomach sometimes reading all these doom posts. Not only that, but after the majority of you whine until you are blue in the face, bioware comes in and answers you're plea's and what do you do? complain more about nerfs that you were crying about in the first place.

 

Look at all the negative posts about 1.2, even thou its all things you have been crying about in the first place.

 

Get a clue

Think outside the box

Learn to not play like a dolt.

 

ps. Wonder if other NFL teams whine because one team has faster WR's, or bigger offensive lines..... How bout NBA teams asking to do away with the dunk or 3 point line because they have a team that cant shoot or cant dunk...

[DakataTan]

the guy above is dead on.

 

almost never in competition are 2 sides identical stat wise (in fact..ever?) its the different + and - that make the game interesting and an actual competition.

 

the premis of allowing each class to kill every other class sounds good but does nothing for the game, there should be targets your better at and some your worse at as well as roles your better and worse at. tanks should be pro ball carriers, stands to reason really.

 

a ranged player in a good safe spot should roll a melee, but if that melee can get to the ranged easy, it should get messy real fast for the ranged.

 

 

all this qq'in (not specifically reffering to the OP here) is watering the whole thing down, making it so incredably simple and linear that it does matter what graphic u have on your screen as basically everything is the same from one class to the next, in a futile attempt to keep everything balanced. we aint there yet but as more and more interesting kinks get ironed out and specs get shifted and ppl pushed into the working specs, variety is lost.

Edited April 4, 2012 by DakataTan

[kercchaos]

I'd like to see Sage/Sorc damage mitigated by armor or something, other than that I've got no real complaints and maybe I could be a little more resolute and not be stunned for what seems like a life time.

 

As for class dynamics, there is a reason why every class is different. Because they're not the same class. As annoying as some classes can be, it's just how things are. No two people are the same, if they were, there'd be no difference between the Yankees and the METS.

[Kittster]

Something does have to change in regards to rules in Huttball.

 

Guardians and Juggs are far too efficient at cruising around the map with the ball. Sage/Sorc pull is quite nice, but nothing like someone that can just run in the pit, tank loads of damage, and have the option to either jump to ally, jump to enemy, or pass. Oh, and non-CCable with the i win shield too.

 

The enemy pull can stay or go, I really don't care - the friendly and enemy pulls are gimmicks but not gamebreaking. A tank that can jump, jump, stun, jump across the map is.

[denpic]

Leave the class Abilities alone

If your class doesn't have one of the so called " nstant Win abilities"

You Can go cry in the corner and feel All Sorry for yourself or you can learn your class position and role within huttball not everyone is supposed to score

Most huttball games I've seen lost is from players not knowing where to be and are completely clueless as to what to do ie standing in the goal zone letting players leap to you

Not trying to control mid not Gaurding /clearing the walkways and Not setting up Passing the ball

 

Yes a sage/sorc gaurdian/jugg can score easy

But only if the other team lets them

[Cataphractone]

God forbid the non dps classes have a role in a warzone

 

DPS sorcs have the same ability.

 

I'd like to see Sage/Sorc damage mitigated by armor or something, other than that I've got no real complaints and maybe I could be a little more resolute and not be stunned for what seems like a life time.

 

As for class dynamics, there is a reason why every class is different. Because they're not the same class. As annoying as some classes can be, it's just how things are. No two people are the same, if they were, there'd be no difference between the Yankees and the METS.

 

Classes can be unique and balanced.

Edited April 4, 2012 by Cataphractone

[thehod]

Commando's role in huttball is largely mid control and knocking off ball handlers or receivers. Not to mention cc healers, and heal friendly ball carriers.

 

Every class has their role in huttball much like in a game of football. Think of the tanks as your linemen/running backs while the dps are your defense or blockers, and inquisitors/consulars as your wide receivers. Healers heal.

 

Examples:

 

Commando: Heals/Defense/Blocker

Vanguard: Running back/lineman

Scoundrel: receiver/heals/free safety

Gunslinger: defense/blocker

Sentinel: Blitzer/lineman/runner

Guardian: blitzer/runner/lineman/blocker

sage: heals/receiver

shadow: lineman/runner/receiver/blocker

 

Also the imperial versions do just the same.

Edited April 4, 2012 by thehod

[Krumple]

Huttball should really be called sinball because with 2 players you can win every match. 1 to get the ball and pass the other a sin to clear the path and sprint to endzone, rince and repeat.

 

Oh did the other team get the ball, no problem, let the sin pull the ball carrier into the fire and pop the ball out and then off to the endzone np.

 

Assassins in huttball have every good utility. They can burst speed, they can knock defenders off the catwalk. They can pull ball carriers either into the fire or off the endzone and into the pit and they have massive defense that most classes can't even get through without double or triple teaming on them.

 

You wanna win at huttball just roll and I win button, I mean assassin.

[Cowpies]

This argument is nonsensical. It describes very specific instances which don't play out. Every single class has a role in huttball. The only reason people complain about certain classes is they get the "glory" of scoring the ball more. I can tell you for a fact without any support they won't make it to the goalline. No healers and no DPS = No score. They can have 8 sorcs but if they can't control mid they'll never get to use them. The only way those classes can score alone is if someone is in a bad position or you aren't doing your job trying to get the ball.

 

Is it the juggernauts fault that your standing in a place to get jumped to? Nope

Is it the sorcs fault that you don't see him there ready to grab a pass? Nope, If you see a Sorc standing there or trying to run ahead kill him or at least push him away. He has to stand there for some time to get the ball.

 

"Glory classes"

Juggernaut- can leap to friendly and non-friendly targets, Harder to kill, has un-CCable

Assassins- can sprint, Harder to kill, pulls, has bubble, has stealth

Sorcerers- Can heal, has sprint, has bubble, Excellent DPS

 

"Support classes"

Powertech- can also leap, hard to kill, pulls non-friendlys (strangely you don't see many of these as runners

Mercenary- Can heal, hard to kill, Excellent DPS

Marauder- Can leap, SUPER bubble, sprint(not as fast), excellent DPS

Operative- Can heal, Has stealth, excellent DPS

Sniper- Excellent DPS, immune to leaps(while in cover)

 

 

The only non utility class in huttball is snipers. They make up for this disadvantage by being able to ignore the first rule of huttball, LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION as cover can't be leapt to.

[hulkweazel]

Huttball is extremely imbalanced towards certain classes. If you disagree, chances are, you're a force user trying to defend this imbalance.

 

Yes, other classes can "support", but certain classes can "support" while having the advantage of being extremely mobile on the map.

 

I wouldn't have a problem with Huttball if it wasn't played 90% of the time Imperial side, and/or other classes had major advantages on another map.

[Fordel]

 

"Support classes"

Powertech- can also leap, hard to kill, pulls non-friendlys (strangely you don't see many of these as runners

 

 

Only the Tank Spec (or some hybrid specs) have the charge/leap, so it's just a low population thing.

 

I do enjoy the surprise the other team has when I just hop into the pit and Storm back out on my Vanguard.

[JediDuckling]

the problem with huttball is the arena is far to small. there isnt enough traps and the fact you can leap with the ball or pull someone with the ball deceives the whole point in passing the ball and scoring as you can skip half the map.

 

the whole design of huttball is poor and need redoing.

 

 

 

more traps need adding

leaping with the ball or pulling people with the balls should reset the ball back to the middle.

obsticles at the bottom in the pit area's should be added.

the goal line should be smaller and further away.

the whole arena needs enlarging

more walkways need adding.

those stupid air lifts need removing as they are a waste of time and cause people to glitch/bug out as well.

 

 

and so on and so on

[Cowpies]

Huttball is extremely imbalanced towards certain classes. If you disagree, chances are, you're a force user trying to defend this imbalance.

 

Yes, other classes can "support", but certain classes can "support" while having the advantage of being extremely mobile on the map.

 

I wouldn't have a problem with Huttball if it wasn't played 90% of the time Imperial side, and/or other classes had major advantages on another map.

 

Can you honestly say your glad to see a juggernaut tank or a assassin tank in your voidstar or alderaan?

 

Voidstar And Alderaan Best Classes-

 

Mercenary/powertech- lots of ranged AOE for door/node defense

Operative/DPS assassins- stealth door/node caps

 

 

Sorcs do have an advantage in all warzones.

[Fordel]

Can you honestly say your glad to see a juggernaut tank or a assassin tank in your voidstar or alderaan?

 

Voidstar And Alderaan Best Classes-

 

Mercenary/powertech- lots of ranged AOE for door/node defense

Operative/DPS assassins- stealth door/node caps

 

 

Sorcs do have an advantage in all warzones.

 

 

Tank assassins can stealth cap just fine.

[Orangerascal]

Class Selection IS the problem.

 

An equally skilled Commando can not pull a bad player out of a bad situation like he could if he was on a sage.

 

The sage pulling a bad player up is still better than two good players passing to each other.

 

Equally skilled assassins, sorcs and guardians can't control the middle as well as gunslingers and commandos.

 

Variance it's there for a reason ... reroll if you want to play the striker.

Edited April 4, 2012 by Orangerascal

[MasterMaL]

Its all about TEAM balance, not just a class doing well or not. You need to make a good matchup of people knowing they strenghts in hutball and use them well.

 

Having 8 juggs/guardian in a hutball isnt going to take you anywhere vs a good team.

 

Yes some class are great carriers but you dont need more than 2. You need mid control, heals, pulls ( both friendly and enemy ) you also need a stealth if possible for a great intercede / pass point. And of course good dmg to burst down the enemy carriers/sorcs before they can pull anything.

 

Huttball is perfect as it is right now beside maybe the vent things witch are completly random and suck to be honnest.

 

Ever since I'm lv 10 I play warzones non stop and my favorite one is huttball by far. I'm now valor rank 80 and I hardly lose any huttballs ever because my team and I learned most of the tricks and best way to play it.

 

Every class has a great role, the game is fast paced and very intense vs other good organised team. If you feel overwhelmed by a class, learn its weakness and abuse it.

 

Ex: if you know the carrier is a jumper ( tank PT, Jugg, Mara ) dont give him LoS. Since sorc/sage can pull, make sure to stop them from getting a good position aka push them down in the pit or kill them they are squishy. If you have pullers make sure to not fill the carrier resolve so he can get pulled into a fire pit. If a vengence speced jugg charge wait a couple second before using your ccs etc etc.

Edited April 4, 2012 by MasterMaL

[Lammio]

Yeh I hate Huttbal when I'm playing my Commando. But I use my abbilities where I can.

Most of the time I keep defending our zone. Im Gunnery Spec, so I keep using Concussion Charge and Stockstrike as often I can, combines with stickyies and cryos I can do my thing