Stop balancing classes abilities, and balance how many are allowed in wz's

[bellok]

There's a difference between not being open to ideas and not wanting the game to get ruined.

 

The game was ruined when BW allowed 7-8 sorcs run around in War Zones.

[bellok]

Every class has its weaknesses. If one side has too many of one class, then figure out what their weakness is and exploit it.

 

You're lucky to have enemies with too many of the same class. That's what makes winning PVP matches easier.

 

All this does is cause everyone to flock over to the fotm and unbalance the wz's with that class.

[KryptikX]

That's it?

 

What do you want? For all your apparent frustration over the replies in this thread, you gave us nothing to work with. In a wall of text you failed to actually lay out arguments as to why this change is necessary, you simply claim it ruins WZs. How? Every class has weaknesses. If you are only facing one class then you don't have much to keep track of, you only have to exploit one.

[TDRedmage]

Discrimination? lol wow. I see there can be no serious conversations in here. People can't even read the tldr version, just spew nonsense about over powered merc healers, in which I plainly stated get rid of 2 of the healing classes and redesign them altogether. This is the problem with the forums.

 

That's the only sense I could make of it. Not my fault if you're rabid and incoherent from losing to 2+ of some class or another. LOL at "serious conversation"... you realize where you posted, don't you?

[zachbuford]

Rock: I hate how overpowered Paper is, he always beats me.

Paper: I was crunching some numbers and as it turns out Scissors is more powerful than me, Rock is perfect the way it is though.

Scissors: Omg, why is Rock so op, nerf him while I cry about it.

[Soul_of_Flames]

All this does is cause everyone to flock over to the fotm and unbalance the wz's with that class.

No, it causes the opposing team to DIVERSIFY their classes. Strength comes from multiple classes performing different roles. Having 5 of the same class should weaken that team's chance at winning since too many are performing the same job and thus other jobs are being neglected.

 

PVP is a team game. Going off alone is not going to win you anything. The classes aren't balanced in a rock, paper, scissors fashion where one class beats another and a different one beats that one. The balance is on team play, not individual strengths.

 

Try working with your team and you will be surprised how much stronger your game becomes.

Edited April 4, 2012 by Soul_of_Flames

[bellok]

What do you want? For all your apparent frustration over the replies in this thread, you gave us nothing to work with. In a wall of text you failed to actually lay out arguments as to why this change is necessary, you simply claim it ruins WZs. How? Every class has weaknesses. If you are only facing one class then you don't have much to keep track of, you only have to exploit one.

 

Generally when I post in the PVP forums I assume that people have a standing knowledge on the current conditions are like for pvp. All others I would expect to not reply at all since they clearly wouldn't know better. You are a liar if you pvp regular in this game and think that war zones when overloaded with 1 class is over powered. If you still have doubts I am not the only one who thinks this. Check out this other thread for instance. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=391626

[bellok]

No, it causes the opposing team to DIVERSIFY their classes. Strength comes from multiple classes performing different roles. Having 5 of the same class should weaken that team's chance at winning since too many are performing the same job and thus other jobs are being neglected.

 

PVP is a team game. Going off alone is not going to win you anything. The classes aren't balanced in a rock, paper, scissors fashion where one class beats another and a different one beats that one. The balance is on team play, not individual strengths.

 

Try working with your team and you will be surprised how much stronger your game becomes.

 

Diversify by playing the same class.....Got ya.

[Soul_of_Flames]

You're the one complaining that we aren't giving your idea a chance and that we should give you a reason why we think it isn't going to work.

 

But every time we do you ignore it. Try reading my post and then talk to me!

[eanamdar]

Balancing classes for the sake of PvP screws up normal game play. Don't go this route!

 

One of the biggest issues in PvP, one that makes there appear to issues that don't exist is pre-made teams. Pre-made teams need to be put in a queue with other pre-mades, and not mixed in the regular PvP queue; do this and most of the issues your getting complaints will vanish as they're a result of perception, not reality.

[bellok]

You're the one complaining that we aren't giving your idea a chance and that we should give you a reason why we think it isn't going to work.

 

But every time we do you ignore it. Try reading my post and then talk to me!

 

The problem with your idea is the fact that every profession supposedly has another profession geared to keep it in check. The best way to deal with 7-8 of one class is to roll 7-8 of the opposite class which in itself will cause an imbalance in the warzone.

[KryptikX]

You are a liar if you pvp regular in this game and think that war zones when overloaded with 1 class is over powered.

 

I'm guessing you meant "isn't over powered", but regardless. You linked to a relatively short thread which once again, made the claim that having too many of 1 class is OP, but only provided sparse anecdotal evidence. Given the obscene amount of in-game behaviour tracking metrics that BW included, they could probably chime in with some stats as to WZ composition and win/loss numbers. Without that information, however, this thread is no different then the "ROAR NERF **** BECAUSE IT KILLED ME ONCE" threads that you complained about.

[Zellata]

Discrimination? lol wow. I see there can be no serious conversations in here. People can't even read the tldr version, just spew nonsense about over powered merc healers, in which I plainly stated get rid of 2 of the healing classes and redesign them altogether. This is the problem with the forums.

 

What would you call it, if not discrimination? You are suggesting that if 2 people happen to play the same class as their main, they shouldn't be allowed to form a premade. On top of that, somebody who plays a popular class (like marauder at the moment) should, according to you, have longer WZ queues than everybody else. After all that you expect to be taken seriously?

[bellok]

Balancing classes for the sake of PvP screws up normal game play. Don't go this route!

 

One of the biggest issues in PvP, one that makes there appear to issues that don't exist is pre-made teams. Pre-made teams need to be put in a queue with other pre-mades, and not mixed in the regular PvP queue; do this and most of the issues your getting complaints will vanish as they're a result of perception, not reality.

 

Balancing numbers of the same class in a wz will not screw up normal game play. I'm not talking about balancing classes as in changing their skill sets, aside from redesigning 2 of the healing classes into something not heal related.

[Soul_of_Flames]

The problem with your idea is the fact that every profession supposedly has another profession geared to keep it in check. The best way to deal with 7-8 of one class is to roll 7-8 of the opposite class which in itself will cause an imbalance in the warzone.

What are you talking about? My entire last post was me specifically saying that classes are not balanced in a rock paper scissors fashion.

 

Diversified classes are stronger than an army of a single one.

 

There are no class counters to other classes. The counters are found in combinations with other classes.

Edited April 4, 2012 by Soul_of_Flames

[bellok]

I'm guessing you meant "isn't over powered", but regardless. You linked to a relatively short thread which once again, made the claim that having too many of 1 class is OP, but only provided sparse anecdotal evidence. Given the obscene amount of in-game behaviour tracking metrics that BW included, they could probably chime in with some stats as to WZ composition and win/loss numbers. Without that information, however, this thread is no different then the "ROAR NERF **** BECAUSE IT KILLED ME ONCE" threads that you complained about.

 

The thing is, I'm not the only one who has realized it, thus proving my point that it is a problem. Bio Ware has given us many details indicating that the majority of the player base plays sorc/sage. Hell you can yell in fleet and ask anyone off the streets what the majority of players play as, it's common knowledge. Do you lack common knowledge of such things? If so why are you even posting in this thread? Many screenshots have been posted showing end results of warzones with massive amounts of sorcs, and now marauders/assasins.......

Edited April 4, 2012 by bellok

[bellok]

What are you talking about? My entire last post was me specifically saying that classes are not balanced in a rock paper scissors fashion.

 

Diversified classes are stronger than an army of a single one.

 

There are no class counters to other classes. The counters are found in combinations with other classes.

 

Aha so you are agreeing with me then that the warzones need to be diversified? This is what this thread is all about.

[Mikee]

Balancing numbers of the same class in a wz will not screw up normal game play. I'm not talking about balancing classes as in changing their skill sets, aside from redesigning 2 of the healing classes into something not heal related.

 

"I'm against changing the classes themselves, except for the ones I want to gut and completely repurpose." And you wonder why you're not taken seriously.

[bellok]

"I'm against changing the classes themselves, except for the ones I want to gut and completely repurpose." And you wonder why you're not taken seriously.

 

I did not specify as to which classes needed to be gutted and repurposed, just that it is necessary for 2 of them. Don't put words in my mouth.

[KryptikX]

The thing is, I'm not the only one who has realized it, thus proving my point

 

Erm... no. That doesn't work. Unless you also believe that aliens have been kidnapping people and that the CIA orchestrated the collapse of the Roman Empire. Having other people agree with you is not evidence.

 

Also, I never disputed the idea that more people play one class over another. This is verified in the data supplied by Bioware.

 

What you seem to be missing... is that you need evidence to demonstrate your claim that it isn't about balancing classes, but that simply having too many of one class makes a team unstoppable.

[Bnol]

I'm not talking about balancing classes as in changing their skill sets, aside from redesigning 2 of the healing classes into something not heal related.

 

This is also another terrible idea, that luckily won't ever happen. Let me explain why this is a bad idea. Having only 1 healer AC would mean that AC would need to be strong in every healing category (longevity, burst, aoe, single), or PVE content would have terrible design constraints. Having all of those strengths would mean the healer AC would be OP. Unless you mean that 1 AC has mutiple healing trees. If that is the case with multiple trees, then what is the point of consolidating all of those trees on one AC, and instead spreading it to different ACs. Not to mention how boring it would be to have just one healer AC.

 

Edit: I think I am getting trolled, if so well done.

Edited April 4, 2012 by Bnol

[bellok]

This is also another terrible idea, that luckily won't ever happen. Let me explain why this is a bad idea. Having only 1 healer AC would mean that AC would need to be strong in every healing category (longevity, burst, aoe, single), or PVE content would have terrible design constraints. Having all of those strengths would mean the healer AC would be OP. Unless you mean that 1 AC has mutiple healing trees. If that is the case with multiple trees, then what is the point of consolidating all of those trees on one AC, and instead spreading it to different ACs. Not to mention how boring it would be to have just one healer AC.

 

Edit: I think I am getting trolled, if so well done.

 

The problem is they created 3 seperate healing classes, and the game was designed with that in mind. It may be a bad idea now that the game is out. The problem with having 3 classes for healing is the constant competeing with each other on who is the "better healer" in which all are about the same. Just different. They all have their advantages and disadvantages. Mixed with rage about healing being over powered(partially due to too many sages/sorcs in wz's), and now they are getting nerfed come 1.2.

Edited April 4, 2012 by bellok

[ReynoldsCK]

Anyone want to see what would happen if the developers stopped balancing classes, and stopped balancing pvp? Then go play Star Trek Online. Play Federation vs Federation pvp battles, then play Federation vs Klingon pvp battles. You come back to me after about 10 battles, and you'll wish for balance. In fact, you'll be wishing for balance so much you'll wish you had a balance beam in your backyard to practice balancing all day long. Players who say "stop balancing pvp" have absolutely no idea what they're talking about; absolutely nothing. Edited April 4, 2012 by ReynoldsCK

[bellok]

Erm... no. That doesn't work. Unless you also believe that aliens have been kidnapping people and that the CIA orchestrated the collapse of the Roman Empire. Having other people agree with you is not evidence.

 

Also, I never disputed the idea that more people play one class over another. This is verified in the data supplied by Bioware.

 

What you seem to be missing... is that you need evidence to demonstrate your claim that it isn't about balancing classes, but that simply having too many of one class makes a team unstoppable.

 

You are arguing against something you know is true. Otherwise you simply don't fight in wz's and spend more time posting on the forums.

[Chaos_Distortion]

Actually if you look closely it seems the op/scoundrels were buffed. It may be biased, but not dilusional. They do need a nerf, if you don't agree then you are either terrible at playing your class, you just don't know better, or you are lying.

Rofl, OPs/Scoundrels were buffed? You better be trolling or people are going to start thinking that you're just really, really ignorant/dumb. You claiming that they need a nerf is the funniest thing I have seen in awhile, I laugh at operatives/scoundrels when they're on me because they hit me like a mosquito. If anything they need a buff from their current live versions.