You win, I give up on my Juggernaut.

[dirtyv]

Please switch classes.

 

I wish more juggs would switch classes. I love it when I am the only jugg in a wz or maybe one other. The less the better in my book, because most are horrible.

 

Too many are just wack arnolds and it makes me wish they were sorc or assassin so do your server a favor and play one of those.

[wickedUOF]

Then I suggest you learn how to read, because that's NOT what I'm saying.

 

 

 

Again, l2read. I'm not saying it's difficult to set up a smash. I'm saying it takes time, and its obvious, and it's EASILY stopped. And no, you're absolutely wrong, missing a smash has nothing to do with skill or lack of same. It has to do with latency. If you don't get that, then you're kind of hopeless.

 

 

 

Again, L2READ. I never said I couldn't beat a grav spammer 1v1. What I said was that in group play, a grav spammer is VASTLY more dangerous to an individual than a lolsmasher. The lolsmasher is in your face, you see exactly what he's doing, and you know when you're about to get hammered. The grav spammer can be way the heck off to the side, half hidden by a column, and will do ****MORE**** damage in the same period of time than a lolsmasher will to an individual.

 

What you don't get, and it makes me sad is that 30k spread between 5 people IS NOT worth as much as 15k on 1 person. 30k on 5 people is a joke, it's easy to heal, it's easy to prevent, and the 5 guys ARE going to gang you. 15k means YOU ARE DEAD.

 

I use smash to kill ppl 1v1 constantly. You're confused about how you suck

[Skwinkles]

So I've read this whole thread over a couple sessions. To summarize what I've taken from the OP's posts, he is upset because:

 

Although heavy armor mitigates more damage than lighter armor, it only mitigates as much as it does, and should mitigate more. We have good defensive cool downs that are awesome while they are used, but you can't use them all of the time. Lag can interfere with force push. We don't do a lot of damage as immortal. As immortal wecan tank, but not for a very long time if multiple people are attacking us. Shields and blocks don't work one every attack, but only some. We don't have a crap ton of hit points.

 

I don't know, force push aside (which you can compensate for easily) sounds balanced to me.

 

And if you wear all tank gear you will have more hit points than dps, you obviously won't if you wear the same gear. Also, a lot of our survival is tied to our mobility.

 

I don't know how you don't feel OP as a jugg, especially in team play. We can offer damage, control, and mitigation to help our teammate out. Huttball is not even fair when we're in the match. And this is coming from someone who lives with his girlfriend and can't play all of the time. I've been playing since early access and after a reroll to join a friend I'm only valor 59, wearing most cent gear, and I still feel OP no matter what spec I play (can't wait for BM).

[Dar-Ell]

I just read through this entire thread and all I have to say is.....ow, my head hurts.

 

Ok, I'm going to break it down to you simply people.

 

It doesn't matter what spec you play

It doesn't matter if someone is percieved as better

It doesn't matter if you are top of the boards in any catagory

 

There are only two things that matter

1. Are you having fun?

2. Are you helping the team?

 

If the answer to either of those questions is no, then you are not playing the right class.

If the answer to both of those questions is yes, then you are playing the right class.

 

Detractors and defenders (D&D) will go back and forth for hours and even days debating whether or not a class is good/viable/OP/poor/horribad and each side will walk away thinking they won the "debate".

 

As an addendum, if you are having fun but don't feel like you are helping the team, ask how to improve. Some of us are actually quite successful doing what we do and would love to give pointers.

[KingFink]

I tend to fall into the "Fought a rage speced jugg, got smashed, killed him before he could get his combo rolling again" group.

 

I prefer to have my bombs on call every 9 seconds. So I play Vengeance. To each their own. Rage is pretty good for PVP, especially if the opponents don't pop CCs on the guy in Shii-Cho form.

[Veeius]

I use smash to kill ppl 1v1 constantly. You're confused about how you suck

 

Not even remotely competent healers you don't. Or do you want to lie some more?

[Schwarzwald]

Not even remotely competent healers you don't. Or do you want to lie some more?

 

One of the best Rep Sages on my server, getting blown away. This person, Seria, is Rank 100 btw. so you can't use the excuse 'hurr hurr her gear is ****, hurr hurr'

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_f_y_Jx3Ug4&

 

You are just a bad player if you don't think that rage is just a tad bit ridonkulous.

 

nonstop 5-6k smashes and 3-4k force screams against full BM sages. Yup, not ridiculous.

Edited April 9, 2012 by Schwarzwald

[Maraxuss]

just playing devils advocate with those that say jugg tank is better than marauder in pvp.

 

The maurauders worst defensive cool down (saber ward) is the juggs best one...should be "nuff said"

[bennyhana]

just playing devils advocate with those that say jugg tank is better than marauder in pvp.

 

The maurauders worst defensive cool down (saber ward) is the juggs best one...should be "nuff said"

 

This this this^^^^

[Dar-Ell]

just playing devils advocate with those that say jugg tank is better than marauder in pvp.

 

The maurauders worst defensive cool down (saber ward) is the juggs best one...should be "nuff said"

 

That's funny, I thought Invincible was my best cooldown. Hmm, learn something new every day.

[KalTorrak]

Not according to the patch notes on the PTS forum. As it is I already had to level a character to 10 on the PTS to find out what they actually changes the values to on Heavy Handed (yay 7% damage nerf on the one meaningful AoE we get and a nerf to a 1 minute cooldown ability on top of it).

 

If you'd bothered to read the post, I pointed out the issue with Force Push as a concept vs. implementation but obviously you were too lazy. Leap is available to tank specced powertechs, and they still retain the ability to Grapple. Intercede is the one ability that Juggernauts get that isn't immediately or overridden by another class, except it does nothing to address the survivability issues that juggernauts have themselves.

 

 

Dude have a cry, I play an Imp op, look at how hard we are getting hit, you are still playing one of the best classes in the game, 7% nerf? We got a 20% nerf to START with now almost every ability in Concealment is getting nerfed, and you are crying? I honestly do not see ANYTHING wrong with Jugs when I vs them (they do a lot of dmg and soak it up and have some damn nice cc's and closers) Mara's to but everyone compares everyone to everyone else, they all want the same **** as the poster said above, what you want, this game to be the same in every aspect, lets all just have 1 class....

 

The game is balanced on GROUP pvp, not 1v1 (and that is where 99.99% of people whinging about balance comes from) you cannot balance a mmo around 1v1 unless you have everyone the same class with the same abilities. Best you can do (like bliz did for arena's) they openly said we are not balancing arena for 2v2, its just stupid and to hard and everyone will roll blah blah blah, so they did it for 3v3 and 5v5 only as best as they could, if you don't like it move on or roll a class so you can stop complaining, like I said you shouldn't even BE complaining your class when compared to those getting hit **** HARD, THOSE are the ones that have the right to complain)

[viith]

It always amazes me on these forums and WoWs before this, how many people spend more time doing math than playing the game. It's a game, it's supposed to be fun. If you're not having fun, maybe you should try something else. The micromanaging "ZOMG, I used to do 100 damage, now I do 98, this is lame!", act boggles me.

[Bastus]

It always amazes me on these forums and WoWs before this, how many people spend more time doing math than playing the game. It's a game, it's supposed to be fun. If you're not having fun, maybe you should try something else. The micromanaging "ZOMG, I used to do 100 damage, now I do 98, this is lame!", act boggles me.

 

Agreed...which is why I ditched my jug for a while. Marauders are SO much more fun, I'm mad I geared up my jug so well. I wasn't having fun so I made the switch. BH's were too easy, no skill involved at all with that class. I love my jug in PVE, but PVP was just stressful. Marauders are the balance of challenge and fun I wanted.

 

I still think that Bioware needs to give Juggernauts some REAL love. This class needs to be a true threat, not a training dummy. I felt so PVE built.

[Goretzu]

just playing devils advocate with those that say jugg tank is better than marauder in pvp.

 

The maurauders worst defensive cool down (saber ward) is the juggs best one...should be "nuff said"

 

 

 

 

I've never thought about it like that, but that's an incredibly concise and telling summation of the problem.

[WarSiren]

I've never thought about it like that, but that's an incredibly concise and telling summation of the problem.

 

See that would be true if both Saber wards were exactly the same but they aren't. The Juggernaut version of Saber ward also has Blade Turning on it. Which gives us a 100% ranged and melee defense for the first 2 seconds which is pretty good.

 

So our Saber Ward is actually better than theirs.

 

I'm beginning to think a lot of the posters here don't know their class to well and only rely on what others tell them to play their class... I mean it's no cloak of pain which is a great defensive CD ( I mean who doesn't love 20% less damage plus returned damage to attackers.), but it's not a bad CD at all with Blade Turning added on to it.

[Schwarzwald]

Lets not forget that marauders have to expend something like half their health to use the other one in which they take like 98% reduced damage.

 

And they are nerfing force camo to no longer make them immune, so Jug defensive CDs WILL be better then maraduers in 1.2

[Rethos]

You haven't heard? Juggernauts are getting this new defensive cooldown in 1.2 that mitigates incoming damage by 1000% for six minutes while healing the tank for 5000 health per second.

 

They're calling it: Undying QQ

 

I for one am all for this skill!

[CJ_SAX_MAN]

elemental and internal damage are specifically lessened by one of the talents. Jug Mitigation is great IMO

[Goretzu]

See that would be true if both Saber wards were exactly the same but they aren't. The Juggernaut version of Saber ward also has Blade Turning on it. Which gives us a 100% ranged and melee defense for the first 2 seconds which is pretty good.

 

So our Saber Ward is actually better than theirs.

 

I'm beginning to think a lot of the posters here don't know their class to well and only rely on what others tell them to play their class... I mean it's no cloak of pain which is a great defensive CD ( I mean who doesn't love 20% less damage plus returned damage to attackers.), but it's not a bad CD at all with Blade Turning added on to it.

 

 

 

Yeah, fair enough it does. So for 1000, 2000 it's better, but still not better than the other Mara defensive CDs.