Force camo

[Kalliadies]

Its astonishing how few people actually see it for what it is.

 

No more 100% damage reduction spec. Finally I can knock them out of stealth.

Edited April 3, 2012 by Kalliadies

[Raansu]

Doesn't need to be.

 

Whatever you consider Force Camo to be, it's unnecessary. Force Leap is your gap closer, and Guarded by the Force is your insanely good defensive cooldown.

 

Force Camo is a little cutesy tool that the devs imagined would be an interesting, and absolutely random addition to the game.

 

 

Pve it is our threat drop.

 

PvP it is our get the **** out skill. Or maybe you forgot that we are a melee class in the middle of the madness with 2 lightsabers saying "attack me I stick out like a sore thumb." Some classes have their CC's, some have stuns, some have knockbacks, some have force speed, we have force camo, get over it.

 

Also guarded bu the force isn't some insanely good defensive cd...It's a whopping 5 seconds of 99% damage reduction where we can still be rooted,stuned and knockbacked...

 

Get over it and L2P.

Edited April 3, 2012 by Raansu

[Angelfeeties]

We could be knocked out of camo with BH/Trooper stealth scan.

 

This change is to prevent Marauders from cycling Undying Rage and Force Camo with proper healing backup that's present in organized warzones. If you cycle these abilities correctly, Annihilation Marauders are incredibly difficult to put down. Healers can slack off healing until we hollar for it while using either UR or Camo, and have a solid 5-6 seconds of 99% and 100% DR to soak heals. That's what Marauders were starting to reserve Force Camo for, instead of its designed use (quick-switching, quick short-distance unrestricted travel, threat dump and target dump, etc.).

 

I think people will start seeing some inventive use of Force Camo from Annihilation Marauders in 1.2. 60% speed and extra duration with a 50% DR attached. That could potentially be some serious distance traveled.

[ImSaved]

Undying rage is more like a last stand...

 

Until you pop a medpack or someone tosses you a heal. Marauders have the best defensive CD's in the game. It's not even close.

[FarizAA]

As it stands, Sentinels never use Force Camo to kill me. They use it to run away from me.

 

Man, if you have such terrible sentinels on your server, I do not get why you complain.

Edited April 3, 2012 by FarizAA

[lollermittens]

I have a 43 marauder. I still don't think it makes sense for them to have vanish. Move along.

 

You've just shown everyone that your opinion is unqualified to make any judgments about Force Camouflage.

 

Marauders are not an optimally mobile class; an obvious handicap that is a staple design choice for this melee-based class. You seem to be confused about the utility of certain of our skills, so I'll enlighten you in that subject.

 

A good Marauder rarely opens with Charge. Period. Charge is saved for the expected KB or to be utilized as an interrupt if you're trying to kill a healer. It can situationally be utilized as a gap closer if you happen to observe other players blowing their KBs -- meaning that it's probably safe to assume that Charging into this scenario will enable you to tack on a slow to the target and dish out some damage.

 

Force Camouflage without Phantom -- the ability which gives you 100% DR -- is an escape ability and a combat "destabilizer." It's a great escape ability which enables you to run away if you get caught at half HP or in the middle of nowhere all by yourself; it's also an excellent evasive/confusing tool to utilize when your opponent charges up all his CDs/trinkets in order to avoid that damage.

 

FC with Phantom is overpowered. There's no doubt about it. Walking unabated through Fire/Acid in Huttball is just as retarded as Assassin's Force Shroud (arguably the most OP'd ability in the game both in PvE and PvP). But FC without Phantom is also underwhelming. Hence why the developers decided to balance it down the middle and add a 50% DR that is crucial for protection when utilized as an escape ability -- you simply die too much when FC does not have Phantom to back it up.

 

Marauders are the most gear dependent class in the game. We're also probably the most cooldown dependent class as well since if you catch me with 75% of my abilities on cooldown, you will most likely kill me (unless Frenzy is up but that's another story). Arguing that FC is overpowered or should be removed from our skill set is making the same argument that healers should not have cleanses since it gives them unfair advantages towards against certain spells under different scenarios.

Edited April 3, 2012 by lollermittens

[MashTactics]

Pve it is our threat drop.

This is a fair argument. Not that another skill couldn't take it's place.

 

PvP it is our get the **** out skill. Or maybe you forgot that we are a melee class in the middle of the madness with 2 lightsabers saying "attack me I stick out like a sore thumb." Some classes have their CC's, some have stuns, some have knockbacks, some have force speed, we have force camo, get over it.

 

I play a scoundrel. This argument is ineffective. Force Leap is your get the **** out skill. Learn to use it.

 

Also guarded bu the force isn't some insanely good defensive cd...It's a whopping 5 seconds of 99% damage reduction where we can still be rooted,stuned and knockbacked...

 

Sorry. I stopped listening after 99% damage reduction.

[Raansu]

 

I play a scoundrel. This argument is ineffective. Force Leap is your get the **** out skill. Learn to use it.

 

 

 

Sorry. I stopped listening after 99% damage reduction.

 

1) What!? lmao...No really...what!? Do you not know how force leap works? Do you think we are guardians that use leap as a guard when leaping on teammates? And even then thats an "lol" for a "get the **** out" skill. No seriously...what!? I...wow...I am slowly understanding why reps are so terrible at pvp...this is just...wow... Force leap is our GAP CLOSER...

 

2)5 seconds...and you can still stun/root/knockback

 

 

You have a serious issue of L2P.

[Xerain]

This is a fair argument. Not that another skill couldn't take it's place.

 

 

 

I play a scoundrel. This argument is ineffective. Force Leap is your get the **** out skill. Learn to use it.

 

 

 

Sorry. I stopped listening after 99% damage reduction.

 

What force leap is our escape skill and force camo is our gap closer now!?! What are you people coming to?!

 

NO just no.

 

Camo= i'm **** of here, pop it when a sniper knocks me back and roots then starts charging a big hit, or if carnage spec pop it when someone roots you to get back onto them.

 

Charge = use after knocked back mostly, it's our GTFI skill.

[Raansu]

I go back to my previous post where I say people who don't play a class and clearly don't understand how the class works, then they should shut up about the class. If you don't play the class at 50, then you really have no business talking about it. And this goes for every class, not just sentinel.

[Marthror]

 

I play a scoundrel. This argument is ineffective. Force Leap is your get the **** out skill. Learn to use it.

 

 

 

Sorry. I stopped listening after 99% damage reduction.

 

Achievement unlocked : Prove you're stupid in 2 sentences

[MashTactics]

1) What!? lmao...No really...what!? Do you not know how force leap works? Do you think we are guardians that use leap as a guard when leaping on teammates? And even then thats an "lol" for a "get the **** out" skill. No seriously...what!? I...wow...I am slowly understanding why reps are so terrible at pvp...this is just...wow... Force leap is our GAP CLOSER...

 

2)5 seconds...and you can still stun/root/knockback

 

 

You have a serious issue of L2P.

 

1) Gap closers work backwards, you know. You want to get away from a DPS tearing you a new one? Leap to an enemy healer. Hard to understand, I get it. Try and broaden your understanding of how non-linear some skills are.

 

2) Best defensive cooldown in the game regardless. Most classes wqould be dead by the time the stun wore off. Not you guys. In fact, if I do even one percent of damage to your health in that time, I'd be pleasantly surprised.

[Cempa]

All the FOTM mara/sents crying over this post is yum. And I was just commenting about how out of place it is to give them a vanish mechanic. What if out of the blue, snipers got a heal? or juggernauts got a ranged attack was spammable? Wouldnt it be out of place? and kind of OP?

 

What if Juggs got Force Pull back!

[Raansu]

1) Gap closers work backwards, you know. You want to get away from a DPS tearing you a new one? Leap to an enemy healer. Hard to understand, I get it. Try and broaden your understanding of how non-linear some skills are.

 

2) Best defensive cooldown in the game regardless. Most classes wqould be dead by the time the stun wore off. Not you guys. In fact, if I do even one percent of damage to your health in that time, I'd be pleasantly surprised.

 

 

1) Its not that I don't get it, its that your logic is pathetic. You don't leap to another enemy to get away from another just so he can chase you down and kill you while you are beating on a healer that would "conveniently" be near by. Force leap is not an ability you use to run away. It's an ability you use to close the gap on an enemy...

 

2) I'd gladly give up guarded by the force for a force pull ability. Thats how little I care about 5 seconds of 99% damage reduction (and I'm willing to be a lot of sentinels would agree with me). I don't need it in a 1v1 situation. It's something I pop if I'm trying to score in huttball or if I'm surrounded and I'm trying to get that last hit on the healer before I force camo and bail.

 

You have a serious issue of L2P dude. Again, I used to wonder why reps always did so poorly in pvp. The more you post the more I realize why.

[MightyHalo]

Yeah I will trade force camo or undying rage for force pullback.

 

if you can't deal with a maurader/sentinal at 20% health with 5 second immunity you really need to learn to play.

 

Most people, including coco the monkey, would realize after the first 10 encounters with undying rage that hmm they seem to always use it when they are really low on health, CC's appear to work on them when they are in this state, and they are glowing red.

 

Get a clue, learn to play.

[skotish]

it's an aggro drop in pve and an escape in pvp.

 

 

It's not really a gap closer either.

 

This This And This spot on m8;)

[Rheeling]

was talking to a trooper the other day and he was talking about getting his leap. . .and he already had the pull. . .so if they can have 2, why can't we(btw i'd much rather have a pull than force camo)

 

This.

 

Give me Force Push or Intercede instead of Undying Rage

Give me a pull instead of Force Camo

 

And to OP, Force Camo is only getting a "buff" if said Marauder puts 0 talent points into the tree which allows Force Camo to give 100% damage immunity with 2 points. Anyone who put those points in, are actually getting a nerf since it's dropping to a flat 50% damage reduction with a slightly longer/higher speed boost, which is still effected by snares since this doesn't act as a cleanse.

[RahlLegacy]

We could be knocked out of camo with BH/Trooper stealth scan.

 

This change is to prevent Marauders from cycling Undying Rage and Force Camo with proper healing backup that's present in organized warzones. If you cycle these abilities correctly, Annihilation Marauders are incredibly difficult to put down. Healers can slack off healing until we hollar for it while using either UR or Camo, and have a solid 5-6 seconds of 99% and 100% DR to soak heals. That's what Marauders were starting to reserve Force Camo for, instead of its designed use (quick-switching, quick short-distance unrestricted travel, threat dump and target dump, etc.).

 

I think people will start seeing some inventive use of Force Camo from Annihilation Marauders in 1.2. 60% speed and extra duration with a 50% DR attached. That could potentially be some serious distance traveled.

 

Maras arent "incredibly difficult to put down" in that scenario you presented. They are impossible to put down. BW does a bad job of thinking outside the box. When they design these abilities they have almost no foresight as to how they will be used outside of what they intend them for.

[BeeSiK]

Because they need a second one, right?

 

open > knock back >force charge >knock back>force camo > blind > stun

 

now w/o force camo

 

walk up to the target? no lets try that again

 

Force charge > stun > blind > knock back > root > dead?

 

So yes we do need it

[Jindrak]

This whole discussion started as LOLWUT'ing at marauders getting an ability that makes them disappear. Do they need a good gap closer? sure. Do they need an "OH SHI*" button? sure. Do they deserve good defensive CDs? Sure. Does this ability need to come with a side effect that makes people lose targeting, lose track of the PC and is exclusive to STEALTH classes? HELL NO.

 

As to the people telling me I need to have a 50 to have a qualified opinion, get off your elitist high horse. I could be level 1 and be able to tell when an ability was out of place. Besides which, this was a QQ about certain mechanics of the ability, not the necessity of having it.

 

Sorry to necro this, but I went to bed early last night

[Bionic_smile]

To use your invisibility as a Mara in pvp for a gap closer is a waste. The short duration makes it typically difficult to use it as a get away as well. If you watch some of the better scoring/ top ranked Mara's you will notice its either used to break cc situations or to drop being targeted and almost immediatly reenter combat.

 

You use it as a "panic button" and reenter combat to go from being in a bad situation to gaining the upper hand with a free hit or two before being targeted again.

 

It is viable to help a lower armored class avoid being squishy should a pvp player want to learn how to play well.

[Cruxe]

This whole discussion started as LOLWUT'ing at marauders getting an ability that makes them disappear. Do they need a good gap closer? sure. Do they need an "OH SHI*" button? sure. Do they deserve good defensive CDs? Sure. Does this ability need to come with a side effect that makes people lose targeting, lose track of the PC and is exclusive to STEALTH classes? HELL NO.

 

As to the people telling me I need to have a 50 to have a qualified opinion, get off your elitist high horse. I could be level 1 and be able to tell when an ability was out of place. Besides which, this was a QQ about certain mechanics of the ability, not the necessity of having it.

 

Sorry to necro this, but I went to bed early last night

 

 

So if marauders also had stealth you'd be fine with them having a vanish-like ability? That makes no sense. That's like saying Sages shouldn't have DDs because they're a heal class.

 

Stealth classes are DPS classes, nothing else. They just happen to use stealth as a function of their DPS. Scoundrels use stealth offensively, to get access to higher DPS abilities and to open combat on specified terms. Shadows and Marauders use stealth differently, defensively. All 3 are DPS classes with stealth abilities, some just have more stealth than others.

 

And I clearly acknowledge that stealth can be used defensively by Scoundrels and offensively by Shadows/Marauders, I was just trying to keep this simple.

[SinnedWill]

Counters to Sentinel/Marauder are: Powertech/Vanguard, Sniper/Gunslinger, Scoundrel/Operative and occasionaly Madness/Balance specced Sage/Sorc. Most Powertechs/Vanguards should easily take out a Mara/Sent 1v1 even with all of their defensive cooldowns EVERY TIME. GOOD Sniper/Gunslingers should win every time 1v1 due to knockback + root + DoT + ranged root. Scoundrel/Ops should win every 1v1 if they get the advantage of opening attacks preventing us from using any defensive abilities. Sage/Sorc... unless they're 31 points in balance/madness tree, then they're usually swiss cheese.

 

On my server, it seems like the FoTM class is Sniper/Gunslinger and I know they must be having a laugh every time they see a marauder get the huttball, even if they're 5m from scoring since I've seen them coordinate ranged roots long enough to last 16 seconds of making my Marauder unable to do SQUAT except to use force camo to reset the ball since we have ZERO abilities to counter being rooted. Is mara/sent FoTM? I suppose it certainly became popular considering how powerful healers are in warzones when coupled with the fact that they're the only classes with a healing debuff. This is what has given rise to so many new Snipers/Slingers, however, and I can't think of any class that synergises with itself against melees better than sniper/slinger.

 

Remove force camo and mara loses a vital gap-closer/aggro-tosser/escape and wouldn't even be worth bringing to any match that happens to have a sniper/gunslinger on the opposing team (let alone multiples). Hell, as squishy as maras are, we often use force camo to avoid getting nailed by Tracer/Grav round (which is unavoidable via defenses, like MANY attacks in the game happen to be). Force camo is vital for a marauder.

 

I hope these are sufficient reasons to explain why force camo is needed as a marauder, but now I have a question for anyone in the know or plays one on PTS: with 1.2's changes, does the carnage-specced force camo still break existing slows/roots with the skillpoints invested or will it only cause the buff to movement speed for predation's effects?

[kyuyu]

Yeah I will trade force camo or undying rage for force pullback.

 

if you can't deal with a maurader/sentinal at 20% health with 5 second immunity you really need to learn to play.

 

Most people, including coco the monkey, would realize after the first 10 encounters with undying rage that hmm they seem to always use it when they are really low on health, CC's appear to work on them when they are in this state, and they are glowing red.

 

Get a clue, learn to play.

 

Yeah, CC is always available! You know, the target has DoTs on it, so no hard CC, or you can also use CC breaker. That's learn to play on your part.

 

Get a clue, reserve CC breaker for the time when you pop undying rage! lol Learn to play!

[slowantics]

its really easy to counter. as a sent i counter other maras and sents all the time. or right before they will camo out. stop wasting ur cc at the start of the match. use it when you HAVE to. dont be cc happy