Force camo

[kyuyu]

That's true. So many times the mara has silver of health left and just vanish and then re-enter immediately to finish a close fight when the opponent will have hard time to re-acquire the target.

 

Mara/sentinels just have too many Oh-ssshi buttons. I would say they need it if they are a melee class in a zerg fest Ilum. But right now in warzones, you have many 1v1, 2v2, 3v3 small-scale fights where those cooldown buttons help enormously.

 

To use your invisibility as a Mara in pvp for a gap closer is a waste. The short duration makes it typically difficult to use it as a get away as well. If you watch some of the better scoring/ top ranked Mara's you will notice its either used to break cc situations or to drop being targeted and almost immediatly reenter combat.

 

You use it as a "panic button" and reenter combat to go from being in a bad situation to gaining the upper hand with a free hit or two before being targeted again.

 

It is viable to help a lower armored class avoid being squishy should a pvp player want to learn how to play well.

[-Vexus-]

Considering the buff this is getting, does it really need to have the vanish component? I've never understood why a class that has NO stealth capabilities gets a skill like this. Does chaff flare make the merc invisible? how about cloud mind? do your enemies forget where you are?

 

Assassin/ shadow= stealth

OP/ scound= stealth

mara/ sent= ???***

 

BUFF?!?!?!?!!? It's going from 4 seconds of undamageable and untargetable (with only 2 simple points of enhancement), to insta-break on AE or DoT. It goes from our first line defense against big-hitting damage and our only escape to a Meh skill. Buff ... that's the kind of uninformed comments only someone who never played the class could make.

 

So let me get this straight, you're comparing your Merc, with bigger hitting attacks and heavy armor and HEALING to the Marauder's survivability? And, you think that going from invulnerable for 4 seconds to being 100% vulnerable upon a DoT or AE is a BUFF? Riiiiiiiiiiiiight.

 

Tell ya what, what if that same logic were used to 'balance' the Merc. Make Tracer Missles on a 15 second cooldown and change him to a Medium armor class ... oh yeah, and make each of his heals heal him for 2% of his total health, no more. Wait, you don't want that? Hmmmm, guess it's best not to call for nerfs without playing the class then.

 

In case you've never played a Marauder with Force Camo and Phantom, it is an essential damage avoidance skill for a mele class that doesn't have the burst of other classes. This change is 100% a nerf assuming people knew how to play the class. In this 1.2 change I'm losing 100% damage invulnerability and escapability for 4 seconds, a 1 second additional root to start my damage chain, and a 10% heal. Those of you calling it a BUFF are very misinformed.

[Dayshadow]

Trooper getting leap and pull= deep tank spec. Marauder dps getting charge+ lots of heavy burst and bleeds, then 99% dmg redux topped off with a vanish?

 

Seems like too many eggs in 1 basket imo.

 

So? Marauders are a pathetic class. They need all the buffs they can get. I mop the floor with marauders as a tank spec vanguard from range kiting or in a straight up melee range fight and I have 2 closers, but the melee only with no CC gets 1? How is that fair?

 

I don't know where these this "heavy" burst and bleeds are, but they aren;t felling so heavy to me. I've played juggs, vangaurd, sorc and sawbones. I can beat them no problem on the first 3 and can outheal their dmg EASILY with a sawbones (the weakest healer). I ran around for like 2 minutes with a marauder chasing me the other day. Couldn't even outdmg me spamming my instant 500 hp heal.

 

You know who has heavy burst? DPS Assassins. Marauders are a joke.

[SinnedWill]

Cloak of pain isn't an "Oh ****take-mushroom" CD. It works best when we have a long DoT put upon as to function as a rage generator with some damage mitigation. Sabre Ward is likely the least useful defense that we have since it only lasts 12s, but it might save your life against specific classes (never see it reduce forc/tech damages that happen to be internal/elemental based) once every 3 min. Undying Rage... well, that seems to be the one people complain about most, but like it or not, you know Mara/Sent have to have it. Force Camo's the one this thread is complaining about, and only annihilation specced maras get the full damage immunity from it - thus, unless you're annihilation mara, it breaks if you take a DoT damage or happen to use it in the middle of an AoE - so only way to forcably break stealth on annihilation maras is via stealth probes. When 1.2 comes around, all maras/sents will be more easily broken out of stealth via DoT's/AoE damage. And if you want to complain about maras having a combat cloak, why don't you just consider that the other combat-cloaking classes can actually remove the DoT's/debuffs so as to avoid being broken from stealth as easily. Offensively? Yes, force camo can be strategically used to get a free hit, but then it's on cooldown, so all that someone would need to do to counter is knockback, root, snare, or any combination of the plethora of light CC actions to have an easy kill. Typically when Maras/Sents use force camo offensively, they MIGHT be able to squeak out a kill they shouldn't have, but they're soon to follow you in death.

[Raansu]

So? Marauders are a pathetic class. They need all the buffs they can get. I mop the floor with marauders as a tank spec vanguard from range kiting or in a straight up melee range fight and I have 2 closers, but the melee only with no CC gets 1? How is that fair?

 

I don't know where these this "heavy" burst and bleeds are, but they aren;t felling so heavy to me. I've played juggs, vangaurd, sorc and sawbones. I can beat them no problem on the first 3 and can outheal their dmg EASILY with a sawbones (the weakest healer). I ran around for like 2 minutes with a marauder chasing me the other day. Couldn't even outdmg me spamming my instant 500 hp heal.

 

You know who has heavy burst? DPS Assassins. Marauders are a joke.

 

You have some terrible marauders on your server.

[thepilk]

Camo existsbecause it suppliments every part of the over all class design.

 

Sentinel is designed around: DPS, "burst" defense via panic buttons (rather than sustained defense), and battlefeild mobility.

 

Camo is a utility tool to support all those functions

 

Mobility- allows the jedi to get around, be it in or out of action and to get around the battlefield more quickly, and unhindered. (Especially for Combat spec, where it serves as a snare/root breaker).

 

DPS- it allows a Sentinel/Maurader to suprise attack a target for setting up their combos or for opportune DPS. (but with a duration too short for stalking, like a true stealth class.)

 

"Panic Button Defense"- Can be used to vanish, thus breaking LOS on a targeted induction cast making it a secondary quazi interupt, and of course as a PVE dump.

 

 

Camo is one of the most important tools in a well played Sentinel's aresnal for any spec. It seems silly because people quickly confuse the vanish concept with that of a true stealth class, however its all around function is quite different and rather subtle if you havnt played the class hands on... infact many Sentinel/Maurders even fail to realize how important it is.

 

As for Guarded by the Force, complaints about it are a bit over stated. It provides 5 seconds of protection, which means protection from 2 attacks when you factor in 3 seconds worth of GCDs.

In reality GbtF only feels broken when its used in conjunction with Watchman/Annilation Zen, allowing 6 Auto-crit DOTs to burn during its duration (makeing for more than 2 attacks now) while healing the Sentinel. GbtF isnt overpowered, the Watchman burns/Zen concept is.

[Ahhmyface]

Force camo is really annoying from the assassin perspective

 

its better in every way

 

1. Usable in combat

2. Can't be detected

3. Speed buff

4. Damage reduction

5. doesn't require force shroud

 

Ok, so its duration isn't that long. Big deal. I can never even use my stealth, and when i do, it doesnt WORK.

[AGoldCrayon]

Its astonishing how few people actually see it for what it is.

 

No more 100% damage reduction spec. Finally I can knock them out of stealth.

 

Not exactly true. Only thing that will knock a marauder out of stealth prior to the full duration is the anti stealth probe, or the marauder attacking someone. As a rage marauder with no talented immunity for force camo, I still maintain camo even when taking damage, this applies to both dots already on me and aoe damage.

 

Why do so many people seem to think it breaks on damage? >.>

Edited April 3, 2012 by AGoldCrayon

[Nessirin]

Considering the buff this is getting, does it really need to have the vanish component? I've never understood why a class that has NO stealth capabilities gets a skill like this. Does chaff flare make the merc invisible? how about cloud mind? do your enemies forget where you are?

 

Assassin/ shadow= stealth

OP/ scound= stealth

mara/ sent= ???***

 

Its a buff to the other 2 specs and a nerf to annihilation. We already have a way to be 100% invul while force camo is up. Learn about the class before complaining on the forums.

[Kalliadies]

Not exactly true. Only thing that will knock a marauder out of stealth prior to the full duration is the anti stealth probe, or the marauder attacking someone. As a rage marauder with no talented immunity for force camo, I still maintain camo even when taking damage, this applies to both dots already on me and aoe damage.

 

Why do so many people seem to think it breaks on damage? >.>

 

It was a reasonable assumption, unless something has changed somewhere along the way to the ability itself (I haven’t seen any changes)

 

I used to be able to knock marauders out of stealth (with damage) before everyone started using the 100% damage reduction - I assumed this was the only reason why.

 

If its not the case even after the change, at least my dots will still be doing “some” damage.

Edited April 4, 2012 by Kalliadies

[Jindrak]

So if marauders also had stealth you'd be fine with them having a vanish-like ability? That makes no sense. That's like saying Sages shouldn't have DDs because they're a heal class.

 

Stealth classes are DPS classes, nothing else. They just happen to use stealth as a function of their DPS. Scoundrels use stealth offensively, to get access to higher DPS abilities and to open combat on specified terms. Shadows and Marauders use stealth differently, defensively. All 3 are DPS classes with stealth abilities, some just have more stealth than others.

 

And I clearly acknowledge that stealth can be used defensively by Scoundrels and offensively by Shadows/Marauders, I was just trying to keep this simple.

 

So if chaff flare and cloud mind made mercs and sorcs dissappear you would be ok with this? Bull. The cries of "OP!!!!" would ring off the mountain tops.

[Nessirin]

So if chaff flare and cloud mind made mercs and sorcs dissappear you would be ok with this? Bull. The cries of "OP!!!!" would ring off the mountain tops.

 

What he was supposed to say was stealth = melee is balanced. Stealth range is just stupid, you can relocate 30m further back adn then start attacking. If a marauder cloaks next to you, you know where he will go. He'll either : Use stealth to target drop and resume the fight for an extra hit (The most common use) , use stealth to rush for a medpack, or use stealth to mitigate the spam of 4-5 tracer missiles,chain casts from snipers and lightning from sorcs, that wuold otherwise hit him (and most likely kill, without cooldowns up) after a knock back.

Edited April 4, 2012 by Nessirin

[Crassius]

Don't forget our amazing CC...oh...wait...but at least Guarded by the Force doesn't cost 50% of our health...oh...wait...don't forget our best burst spec isn't the bleed one...oh...wait...

 

That's why you use it when you're almost dead. How often I see Sent/Mara use exactly that skill to help them finish their enemy. If you have to cry about something like that you're definitely doing something wrong. It's EXTREMELY useful.

[getdownsb]

Considering the buff this is getting, does it really need to have the vanish component? I've never understood why a class that has NO stealth capabilities gets a skill like this. Does chaff flare make the merc invisible? how about cloud mind? do your enemies forget where you are?

 

Assassin/ shadow= stealth

OP/ scound= stealth

mara/ sent= ???***

 

^qq

 

BTW for Ani Marauders, Cammo is getting nerfed.

 

L2P.

Edited April 4, 2012 by getdownsb

[pauliej]

Qq moar lololol

[iknoghostmagic]

What is even the point of this post do you really think they would even consider removing the ability from the game, bioware doesn't have to give you justification of why they put things in there game lol Edited April 4, 2012 by iknoghostmagic

[GrandMike]

What is even the point of this post do you really think they would even consider removing the ability from the game, bioware doesn't have to give you justification of why they put things in there game lol

 

No, but they do need 15/month from 1 million people every month.

[RenegadeSLX]

Because 1 gap closer on a 15sec cooldown works awesome when your being blown up from range after being knocked back stunned or rooted. Things Sentinels cannot do unless specced to.

[Beyaco]

What a surprise! Scrubs complaining!

[Mosene]

Because they need a second one, right?

 

Yes we do actually.

[OGsam]

^qq

 

BTW for Ani Marauders, Cammo is getting nerfed.

 

L2P.

 

THIS. Anni/Watchman is the spec that gets the QQ, it's actually getting nerfed, they're shifting some power from it to combat and focus trees, everyone who's QQing needs to **** and understand the class they're whining over.

[SinnedWill]

They're changing ALL mara/sent specs. Whether or not you can state that any of the specs are getting buffed, you should really wait until 1.2 goes live before you complain. It's my understanding that force camo, regardless of your spec, will operate identically between all 3 specs (as to whether or not the middle tree's specced points will still remove all pre-existing slow/roots, I'm yet to hear any confirmation). Carnage will get the movment speed bonus to predation that annihilation currently has; Annihilation will be able to generate more rage via force charge (pretty sure they're getting that from the carnage tree), carnage's ataru form strikes are now considered weapon-based (can be evaded) with an increase to damage (which is actually a decrease, since they're currently considered force-based and marauder's force damage bonus is ALWAYS higher than melee bonuse dmg.), and many skills in all 3 trees are getting removed completely. Rage will likely benefit the most from 1.2 since obliterate will cause a momentary root (like the non-specced form of force charge) and I'm not sure, but it might cause a skill interrupt as well. I'm just not entirely certain if the other skills that are being swapped out of all the trees will effect rage maras in terms of overall dps output. Oh, and annihilation maras' rupture-specced ability will become a 50% speed debuff instead of 30%.

 

All-in-all, if you ever have an issue with marauders, just ask your Agent/Scoundrel and BH/Trooper teammates (regardless of their AC, they can all ruin a mara/sent's day) to keep maras/sents rooted, debuffed, DoT'd, or stunlocked often enough to force them to be more defensive for ya'. Hell, even a good hybrid sin/shadow should slaughter maras with a quickness.

Edited April 5, 2012 by SinnedWill

[Ravenolf]

it's an aggro drop in pve and an escape in pvp.

 

 

It's not really a gap closer either.

 

 

Not a gap closer.??? You don't play one, or if you do, not very well. Yeah it can be used for escape too, but most of the time it is a gap closer.

[SinnedWill]

Not a gap closer.??? You don't play one, or if you do, not very well. Yeah it can be used for escape too, but most of the time it is a gap closer.

 

Predation and LoS are our primary gap closers since Force Camo's use can either give you 1-2 free attacks if used once you're already in melee range or to disappear after a knockback+root/knockback+slow (if your force charge/obliterate -depending on spec- are on CD and you're not rooted) to save you from getting hit with the enemy's primary damaging attacks or if a stealth class suddenly jumps you while you're on your initial target or to flat-out attempt to retreat.

 

BUT, yes, it can certainly be used effectively as a gap closer - it's a rather good one, at that, but I'd consider it a very conditional gap closer and should only be used against certain classes/specs for that purpose. Personally, I try my best to save camo + charge until after I've reached melee range so that I can re-engage after their knockback+root/knockback+slow since you know that's the first thing they'll do.