mangarrage Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Sorry, how is failing at crafting an item you farmed up mats for (or paid for) MORE enjoyable? You need failure at crafting to feel self-worth in the game? It only "meant" you put a lot more time into the game... I remember starting WoW in BC, and failing at skinning a boar in Dun Morogh. Sometimes I'd fail a couple times. All that meant was I was spending an extra 10 seconds trying to get some rough leather scraps, when I could've been hoofing it to the NEXT boar I needed to kill & skin. Not much of a sense of 'accomplishment' when I'd succeed in skinning. You can fail at Crew Skill missions. I think that's plenty of 'chance at failure' for the crafting side of the game. Oh wait! There's also Re-engineering. Lots of 'failure' there, too, and I know it's supposed to get better in 1.2, but even so it'd be a LOT worse if you could fail at crafting the items you intended to re-engineer. Imagine the threads if you had a chance to fail at every single step in the crafting process! Did you also hate how they made basic mounts--and training--so cheap in WoW and put regular and epic ground-riding at levels 20 and 40, down from 40 & 60? A sense of accomplishment isn't a bad thing... attaching it to grindy game elements, though, is. Im not talking about enjoyable. You are . You are obviously one of those insta gradification people trade SKILL. I want reality. In past games you tried multiple times to hone your skill. I cant turn a piece of leather into a shoe the first time, but practicing it eventually I would hone my skills enough to make a shoe Just like spells in EQ when you got a new spell and you tried to cast it in the beginning you fizzled as you got better in the discipline you were able to cast that spell with eaze. You had to work for example to become a good wizard you just didnt master new abilities without ever even doing them before Thats stupid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schwartzpedro Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 One of the things I miss the most is a body builder so you can change your body model after character creation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thominoh Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Im not talking about enjoyable. You are . You are obviously one of those insta gradification people trade SKILL. I want reality. In past games you tried multiple times to hone your skill. I cant turn a piece of leather into a shoe the first time, but practicing it eventually I would hone my skills enough to make a shoe Just like spells in EQ when you got a new spell and you tried to cast it in the beginning you fizzled as you got better in the discipline you were able to cast that spell with eaze. You had to work for example to become a good wizard you just didnt master new abilities without ever even doing them before Thats stupid I so missed those good old days of skill practice.. rather it be abj. alt. conj. evo. div. FD, safe fall.. etc etc.. It was part of learning your character and growing with it.. I used to laugh at toons that would be power leveled but end up being worthless cause their skill was ZIPPO.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terminova Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 I'm not talking about enjoyable. You are . *snipped* trade SKILL. I want reality. In past games you tried multiple times to hone your skill. I cant turn a piece of leather into a shoe the first time, but practicing it eventually I would hone my skills enough to make a shoe Just like spells in EQ when you got a new spell and you tried to cast it in the beginning you fizzled as you got better in the discipline you were able to cast that spell with ease. You had to work for example to become a good wizard you just didn't master new abilities without ever even doing them before That's stupid If you want a game that isn't enjoyable to play, I'm sure there are plenty of games that will suit your tastes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxetius Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 (edited) One family and Career later, I am glad that MMO's now cater to people who don't have a lot of time to play but still want to have fun and get cool stuff. Camping spawns and grinding the same dungeon over and over for levels was great when I was 13 and Everquest was awesome... Edited March 30, 2012 by maxetius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaggscoob Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 One family and Career later, I am glad that MMO's now cater to people who don't have a lot of time to play but still want to have fun and get cool stuff. Camping spawns and grinding the same dungeon over and over for levels was great when I was 13 and Everquest was awesome... Exactly, when I was 22, just out of college, in a part time entry level job with no wife, 30-40 hours of gaming was OK. Now, I'm just glad I can have the same enjoyment whilst having a life! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian_Planeswalker Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 I'm an RPG gamer and imho SWTOR is the best MMO for me since I can play like old school RPG in Xbox or PS and still interact with a lot of people. I have played several MMO's that requires grinding and too much time that'll make you look like a vegetable. SWTOR is fresh and in a way that the story keeps you interested. If you don't care about the lore and storyline of each character then yeah I think this is not for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jederix Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 then of course if there is a grind. then it becomes a bad thing and this OP will scream for less grind. the rule of thumb is Grind = Bad No Grind = Bad where does that leave us? I chuckled, because the same rule applies to all MMOs since 2005: Not Like WoW = Bad Like WoW = Bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jederix Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 I agree with this assessment. Equally, there are always a segment of players on the opposite extreme that are also a minority, often think a game is too hard, and also don't really pay the bills. That said, you are probably going to get some flaming from the hardcore folks on this, even though it is true IMO. They like to think of themselves as the penultimate in driving a game and in their importance to the game. Even though it's actually the 60% of the population in the center of the bell curve distribution of players that represent the majority that are the core player base. And the majority are underrepresented in game forums. Everyone except the delusional know it is true. Hardcores love to think the game is just filled with like-minded individuals and find it a personal affront to them when someone claims otherwise (same could be said about PvPers, but that is another debate). The success of WoW is more than enough (given their relatively low numbers in the past of people who actually raided) to show that casuals are where the money is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jederix Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 I wouldnt say the grind is missing in tor, infact i find tor very enjoyable to lvl within compared to other games. That said i feel the xp required to level is way to short of what it should be for the xp we get. Id say that we should have required double the amount of xp it takes now to level so as to make it so we dont outrank ourselves for content be it wanting todo pvp, flashpoints, space combat and the pve + pve bonus areas. I agree with you, however, the problem you run into is not everyone runs flashpoints, not everyone does PvP. If you make quests give less XP in order to make leveling slower so you can enjoy more FPs and PvP, you hinder those people who do not do these other activities, slowing them down or forcing them to play portions of the game they don't like just to avoid having to grind out a few levels on mobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veeam Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 If this game had "grind" I wouldn't play it. I hate grinding, it's boring and depressing. being able to sink hundreds of hours into a grind doesn't make you special, it doesn't mean you have skill. all it means is you have no real life to speak of. I play to have fun. Grinding imo is not fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jederix Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 I've seen people take this position before. It especially bemuses me since by the time the person who took 5 months to get the item(s), there is most likely going to be a slew of new items for those who want to hurry to obtain. Then again, I don't give a you-know-what about what "some other dude" has. It just isn't important to me. Special Snowflake Syndrome. I play more than you, so I'm better and am entitled to better stuff. This is where the mentality you describe comes from. They feel that their excess time spent in game affords them better stuff than the average joe. It is an ego trip, a narcissistic view of MMO gaming that games like EQ were built upon, nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
celebrei Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 U want grind then play korean mmo like dekaron, now that is grind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darnu Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 now if only there was some way there could be a game with fun content that makes you feel like you're working towards something and that work keeps you entertained while you're doing it and the reward you're working towards makes those times when it feels like work all worthwhile. And there was enough variety of things to work towards with a variety of things to do so it didn't feel so rigid and could take you to a variety of locations where there were other people. And there was a way to make a grind be something different to spamming /1 until you get fed up, cut your losses and log out. I don't know. Something that involves you enough and keeps you interested enough to make you overlook flaws/bugs for long enough until you lose patience. but yeah. too grindy and you're right back to where Aion failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nadrojjj Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 This MMO caters to weekend warriors and casuals. Look at the responses in this thread if you think differently. Wait for the expansion to come out, if it's not your cup of tea leave. I just unsubbed this week due to lack of things to do, two characters, full rakata and full battlemaster. Now for all of you to tell me go outside, go for a walk, kiss a girl and any other "you have no life go enjoy life" insult you'd like to throw go for it, but I have a great life. This game is easymode and that's about all you can say about it. Quick shot to max level - yup free pvp gear wether you win or lose - yup instances - normal - run it once and never again - hard gear check of easy - nightmare gearcheck of hard - all easy Very little endgame content and with the quick shot to 50 it leaves most players standing around the fleet all day. If you enjoy the game I'm happy for you, I myself am extremely disappointed with it as I've been waiting for it to release for sometime now and what we got was just not up to expectations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieAlteHexe Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 This MMO caters to weekend warriors and casuals. Look at the responses in this thread if you think differently. Wait for the expansion to come out, if it's not your cup of tea leave. I just unsubbed this week due to lack of things to do, two characters, full rakata and full battlemaster. Now for all of you to tell me go outside, go for a walk, kiss a girl and any other "you have no life go enjoy life" insult you'd like to throw go for it, but I have a great life. This game is easymode and that's about all you can say about it. Quick shot to max level - yup free pvp gear wether you win or lose - yup instances - normal - run it once and never again - hard gear check of easy - nightmare gearcheck of hard - all easy Very little endgame content and with the quick shot to 50 it leaves most players standing around the fleet all day. If you enjoy the game I'm happy for you, I myself am extremely disappointed with it as I've been waiting for it to release for sometime now and what we got was just not up to expectations. Yup, it is (comparatively) "easy mode" and yup, I can see where that would irritate those for whom "easy mode" is apparently evil. I can appreciate the frustration one can feel when a game that has been hyped and/or looked forward to a long time turns out not to be "the game you were looking for". I am taken a bit aback by the amount of people who expected a more hardcore game though. This is Bioware, home of the story-line games. Ah well, better luck with the next offering for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lostkoss Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 To the OP ; When you have the Midas touch and everything your eyes fall upon is made of gold, then you will truly appreciate the value of a bag of dirt. I like your Post +1. Everyone in this game gets everything easily handed to them on a silver platter. With no real effort comes no real reward. That dry soul less feeling you have after playing this game is called guilt. Guilt that you are being fed a crud sandwich , but that is what you ordered so you are going to eat it. It looked good on the menu ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieAlteHexe Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 To the OP ; When you have the Midas touch and everything your eyes fall upon is made of gold, then you will truly appreciate the value of a bag of dirt. I like your Post +1. Everyone in this game gets everything easily handed to them on a silver platter. With no real effort comes no real reward. That dry soul less feeling you have after playing this game is called guilt. Guilt that you are being fed a crud sandwich , but that is what you ordered so you are going to eat it. It looked good on the menu ! Guilt? You actually feel guilt after playing a game? C'mon, tell me that was a heaping serving of hyperbole otherwise I'm going to worry about you. It's a game. It's meant to be fun. If it isn't fun, go do something that is. Guilt? Wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darnu Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 Guilt? You actually feel guilt after playing a game? C'mon, tell me that was a heaping serving of hyperbole otherwise I'm going to worry about you. It's a game. It's meant to be fun. If it isn't fun, go do something that is. Guilt? Wow. well, it kind of does feel like this game demo http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/games/blizzkidzz/ in a way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heikaze Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 Grinding with a challenge is fun. When a game is too easy, the grind becomes mindless and boring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieAlteHexe Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 well, it kind of does feel like this game demo http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/games/blizzkidzz/ in a way What does that have to do with feeling guilty about playing a game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grayseven Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 I don't need a grind. I have that in real life...it's called a job. If you are worried about paying 15 bucks a month for a sub...MMO's aren't for you. If you think you should have to spend 24 hours a day 7 days a week playing a game to get fully geared and good at the game...real life isn't for you. If you don't have other things to do outside of playing computer games, don't expect gaming companies to fill that excess time just for you. Companies cater to the larger portion of their player base, not the small percentage that has nothing better to do than play their games 24/7. If you want a grind, I'd like to suggest volunteering for various charities in your area. They could use your commitment. If you are whining about not having things to do in a game that should be nothing more than a hobby and not a way of life maybe you should start thinking about others in the world that don't have the luxury of free time... People expecting grinds are the same people who complain when there is nothing left BUT the grind. If you think grinds are a necessary part of MMO's you are part of the problem with MMO's today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostbyt Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 Are you people machines? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkkis Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 (edited) Someone actually wants grinding? Protip: Get a life. Edited April 1, 2012 by Darkkis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddballEasyEight Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 I don't need a grind. I have that in real life...it's called a job. If you are worried about paying 15 bucks a month for a sub...MMO's aren't for you. If you think you should have to spend 24 hours a day 7 days a week playing a game to get fully geared and good at the game...real life isn't for you. If you don't have other things to do outside of playing computer games, don't expect gaming companies to fill that excess time just for you. Companies cater to the larger portion of their player base, not the small percentage that has nothing better to do than play their games 24/7. If you want a grind, I'd like to suggest volunteering for various charities in your area. They could use your commitment. If you are whining about not having things to do in a game that should be nothing more than a hobby and not a way of life maybe you should start thinking about others in the world that don't have the luxury of free time... People expecting grinds are the same people who complain when there is nothing left BUT the grind. If you think grinds are a necessary part of MMO's you are part of the problem with MMO's today. This. I was going to write a long post on this subject, but i realised someone had already done just that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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