nerf + expertise

[trimetros]

After the 1.2 patch expertise ll b double..

how the hell are we supposed to burst down anyone considering tha lack of sustain dps and the GCD nerf of our 2 main attacks + the minus 3 % crit to everyskill ?

i dont have the will to play healing

guess this ll b my last game time card

fair well BW

[Akento]

We aren't... If we did then we'd get nerfed again, we aren't allowed to kill other players in pvp. It's forbidden.

 

It's been said by George or w/e his name is that the reason we get nerfed is because of "measurable statistics" that show if there is a "team of operatives" (And i'll be damned if I have ever seen one of those... I don't think they exist) that stun lock people to death they won't be as likely to resubscribe. Pure BS.

 

Everyone that has ever said "Operatives are overpowered" after the first nerf, has NEVER EVER been able to prove it. We have to work harder for our kills, and are easier to kill ourselves.

 

I guess we just put faith in the wrong company, and we damn sure picked the wrong class.

Edited March 29, 2012 by Akento

[KyoMamoru]

Expertise cancels out Expertise, except for the reduction of the effectiveness of Trauma for healers. It's designed to make PVP gear stay in PVP, and PVE gear stay in PVE.

[Dampiel]

im just going to cut and paste this

 

Its a win win for BW to just nerf the Operative in both PVE and PVP. And im starting to see them play off this a bit too much. If more people played Operative/scoundrel than sage/sorc we wouldnt get nerfs that make little sense. Its a business that ONLY works off recurring business. and if 60% of the population is unhappy where as 5% of the population is happy, theres a problem on the recurring business side. (and my 5% isnt an actual number its just being used as a reference point (i have no idea what the actual percentage of operatives and scoundrels are out there) but 5% of roughly 2 million people is roughly 1.5 million a month, 60 % of roughly 2 million is 18 million a month. And while my #'s are not actual or factual (I really want to make that clear here) But when you look at business if you are going to lose 18million, but can scrap 1.5 million and just treat that share of the player base bad but keep the 18million, any business would keep the 18million and just sack the 1.5 million, which is not what bioware is doing. Bioware is currently treating the operatives/scoundrels poorly, with lack of communication or even reading the operative/scoundrel forums (need proof? there are over 140 dev posts in 2 months on the sorc/sage forums, but only about 20 in the scoundrel/operative forums (and even that # may be a little high)) along with poorly conceived nerfs designed for a minimal reduction in damage, end up being a HUGE reduction of damage in pvp over the course of a boss fight which is POORLY CONCEIVED!

 

Up above somewhere i mentioned that BW is just sacking the 5% of the player base and offering them an alternative, so what is that alternative that allows them to maintain the revenue from the operative/scoundrel? Roll a marauder

[trimetros]

Expertise cancels out Expertise, except for the reduction of the effectiveness of Trauma for healers. It's designed to make PVP gear stay in PVP, and PVE gear stay in PVE.

 

everytime they patch something with expertise and +hp is a nerf to our surprise attack cause an 0P actually gambles on making crits (we get -3%)

[playasaurus]

Isn't Han Solo the most popular Star Wars character? Isn't that why he got Leia? Wasn't he a Smuggler?

[Dampiel]

Isn't Han Solo the most popular Star Wars character? Isn't that why he got Leia? Wasn't he a Smuggler?

 

He only scored Leia because Luke found out it was his sister

[Akento]

Isn't Han Solo the most popular Star Wars character? Isn't that why he got Leia? Wasn't he a Smuggler?

 

You think smugglers/IA's are the most played class...? Hopefully you don't really believe that. If so, then you're very mistaken. We are the least played class.

[AdmiralOnasi]

We aren't... If we did then we'd get nerfed again, we aren't allowed to kill other players in pvp. It's forbidden.

 

It's been said by George or w/e his name is that the reason we get nerfed is because of "measurable statistics" that show if there is a "team of operatives" (And i'll be damned if I have ever seen one of those... I don't think they exist) that stun lock people to death they won't be as likely to resubscribe. Pure BS.

 

Everyone that has ever said "Operatives are overpowered" after the first nerf, has NEVER EVER been able to prove it. We have to work harder for our kills, and are easier to kill ourselves.

 

I guess we just put faith in the wrong company, and we damn sure picked the wrong class.

 

Pretty much this. They're pissing on our legs and not even bothering to tell us it's raining anymore. Georg Zoeller is so full of crap and should be fired. "Teams of Operatives?" What a joke. If you get more than two DPS Sco/Ops on your team in a warzone it's an autoloss. I once played a Huttball where we had 4 Scoundrels on our team... we lost 6-0 in five minutes because, shockingly, not being able to knock people into the pit or catch fleeing targets makes it easier for them to score.

 

im just going to cut and paste this

 

Its a win win for BW to just nerf the Operative in both PVE and PVP. And im starting to see them play off this a bit too much. If more people played Operative/scoundrel than sage/sorc we wouldnt get nerfs that make little sense. Its a business that ONLY works off recurring business. and if 60% of the population is unhappy where as 5% of the population is happy, theres a problem on the recurring business side. (and my 5% isnt an actual number its just being used as a reference point (i have no idea what the actual percentage of operatives and scoundrels are out there) but 5% of roughly 2 million people is roughly 1.5 million a month, 60 % of roughly 2 million is 18 million a month. And while my #'s are not actual or factual (I really want to make that clear here) But when you look at business if you are going to lose 18million, but can scrap 1.5 million and just treat that share of the player base bad but keep the 18million, any business would keep the 18million and just sack the 1.5 million, which is not what bioware is doing. Bioware is currently treating the operatives/scoundrels poorly, with lack of communication or even reading the operative/scoundrel forums (need proof? there are over 140 dev posts in 2 months on the sorc/sage forums, but only about 20 in the scoundrel/operative forums (and even that # may be a little high)) along with poorly conceived nerfs designed for a minimal reduction in damage, end up being a HUGE reduction of damage in pvp over the course of a boss fight which is POORLY CONCEIVED!

 

Up above somewhere i mentioned that BW is just sacking the 5% of the player base and offering them an alternative, so what is that alternative that allows them to maintain the revenue from the operative/scoundrel? Roll a marauder

 

Sith Sorcerers and Jedi Sages make up 15.5% of the total player population. Scoundrels and Operatives? 7.5%. There are more Sorcerers, more Mercenaries, more Juggernauts, more Marauders, more Sentinels, and more Assassins than there are Scoundrels and Operatives put together. Link. What's the expression? The squeaky wheel gets the oil? And I'm sure it helps when the squeaky wheel is comprised of screaming 12 year olds.

[trimetros]

""Sith Sorcerers and Jedi Sages make up 15.5% of the total player population. Scoundrels and Operatives? 7.5%. There are more Sorcerers, more Mercenaries, more Juggernauts, more Marauders, more Sentinels, and more Assassins than there are Scoundrels and Operatives put together. Link. ""

 

tnx for that link ...a question

since they nerf the underplayed classes why dont they nerf powertechs and vanguards also?

their dps output is A LOL and they wear heavy armor!

do they have a stealth fear syndrom?

[AdmiralOnasi]

""Sith Sorcerers and Jedi Sages make up 15.5% of the total player population. Scoundrels and Operatives? 7.5%. There are more Sorcerers, more Mercenaries, more Juggernauts, more Marauders, more Sentinels, and more Assassins than there are Scoundrels and Operatives put together. Link. ""

 

tnx for that link ...a question

since they nerf the underplayed classes why dont they nerf powertechs and vanguards also?

their dps output is A LOL and they wear heavy armor!

do they have a stealth fear syndrom?

 

Actually, Pyro and Assault Specialist are getting a major shakeup. There's an excellent post in the PvP forum about what exactly is being changed. You can read about it here.

[teemoor]

Actually expertise now gives more damage, but less defense. ~1000 expertise gives about 19.5% damage, but 16.5% defense. So that's another +3% to op's damage.

 

From Pedia's Scoundrel thread (screenshot)

[Fallerup]

The ppl that complan about Operative/scoundrel nerf have obviously never been on the receiving end of an attack by a Operative/scoundrel "tag team". Last WZ I played (I play tank assassin), these 2 operatives were following ppl around and killing them in seconds, because their stuns, unlike mine, barely fill the resolve bar.

 

this needed to be done, try being on the receiving end and you will agree.

 

I cast 1 electricute and the resolve bar is full (or very close to it) and unless I'm deception specced, there is no way I'll kill a person before it wears off.

[Rizael]

I cast 1 electricute and the resolve bar is full (or very close to it) and unless I'm deception specced, there is no way I'll kill a person before it wears off.

 

Sin:

Spike - 4m range, 2s stun, 1/3 resolve bar, useable only from stealth (unless darkness spec... but lets face it you are there)

Electrocute - 30m range, 4s stun, full resolve bar

Mind Trap - 4m range, 6s mez, 3/4 resolve bar

 

Best Stun rotation:

Spike 2s stun

Electrocute 4s stun

----------------------

total 6s stun - full resolve

 

Operative:

Hidden Strike - 4m range, 1.5 s stun, only usable from stealth, only usable from behind the target, to knock down requires 27 points into concealment, 1/3 resolve bar

Debilitate - 4m range, 4s stun, 3/4 resolve bar.

Sleep dart - 10m range, 8s mez, full resolve

Flash bang - 10m range, 8s mez, 99% resolve

 

Best Stun rotation:

Hidden Strike 1.5s stun

Debilitate 4s stun

---------------------------

total 5.5s stun - full resolve

 

Now if you are talking double opening (which is the use of a 2min cooldown) then operatives can increase their stunlock to 7 seconds which is one second more than the assassins can manage at this point (which is moot since its getting a cooldown next patch. I don't understand why... an assassin CAN complain about an operative when you have a force/tech immune ability that after your "initial" stun lock opening on an operative makes you impervious to any substantial damage for 5 seconds which pretty much means you have 11 seconds to attack an operative without taking damage (on a 45 second cooldown). Honestly I don't know exactly what you want? more invincible time?

Edited March 29, 2012 by Rizael

[Uuhh]

The amount of threats of unsubscribing in these threads is pathetic. Also, if anyone honestly thinks that the dev teams doesn't care about their subscribers, or in this case, the subscribers who play operatives, you are ignorant and naive. BW has put allot of money into this game, and they plan to do so in the future aswell. If anything the class just lacks direction, and it's a common problem for most rogue classes.

[AdmiralOnasi]

The ppl that complan about Operative/scoundrel nerf have obviously never been on the receiving end of an attack by a Operative/scoundrel "tag team". Last WZ I played (I play tank assassin), these 2 operatives were following ppl around and killing them in seconds, because their stuns, unlike mine, barely fill the resolve bar.

 

this needed to be done, try being on the receiving end and you will agree.

 

I cast 1 electricute and the resolve bar is full (or very close to it) and unless I'm deception specced, there is no way I'll kill a person before it wears off.

 

Getting tag teamed by two of any class is gonna get you melted. The better question is, why was your team not dominating the warzone since two enemy players were running around the middle of nowhere looking for stragglers to kill?

[Chasidim]

tnx for that link ...a question

since they nerf the underplayed classes why dont they nerf powertechs and vanguards also?

their dps output is A LOL and they wear heavy armor!

do they have a stealth fear syndrom?

 

it's because of the famous gang of operatives analprobing players.

[trimetros]

The ppl that complan about Operative/scoundrel nerf have obviously never been on the receiving end of an attack by a Operative/scoundrel "tag team". Last WZ I played (I play tank assassin), these 2 operatives were following ppl around and killing them in seconds, because their stuns, unlike mine, barely fill the resolve bar.

 

this needed to be done, try being on the receiving end and you will agree.

 

I cast 1 electricute and the resolve bar is full (or very close to it) and unless I'm deception specced, there is no way I'll kill a person before it wears off.

 

so u wanna say that if u get attacked from ANY other except op tagteam u ll survive?

[trimetros]

The amount of threats of unsubscribing in these threads is pathetic. Also, if anyone honestly thinks that the dev teams doesn't care about their subscribers, or in this case, the subscribers who play operatives, you are ignorant and naive. BW has put allot of money into this game, and they plan to do so in the future aswell. If anything the class just lacks direction, and it's a common problem for most rogue classes.

 

and they actually dont respect their promo money since they v already lost more than half of their customers in 3 months..

when i joined the game i had to wait 200 peoples queues to login while now is like i play in a private server with light activity

[Fallerup]

Sin:

Spike - 4m range, 2s stun, 1/3 resolve bar, useable only from stealth (unless darkness spec... but lets face it you are there)

Electrocute - 30m range, 4s stun, full resolve bar

Mind Trap - 4m range, 6s mez, 3/4 resolve bar

 

Best Stun rotation:

Spike 2s stun

Electrocute 4s stun

----------------------

total 6s stun - full resolve

 

Operative:

Hidden Strike - 4m range, 1.5 s stun, only usable from stealth, only usable from behind the target, to knock down requires 27 points into concealment, 1/3 resolve bar

Debilitate - 4m range, 4s stun, 3/4 resolve bar.

Sleep dart - 10m range, 8s mez, full resolve

Flash bang - 10m range, 8s mez, 99% resolve

 

Best Stun rotation:

Hidden Strike 1.5s stun

Debilitate 4s stun

---------------------------

total 5.5s stun - full resolve

 

Now if you are talking double opening (which is the use of a 2min cooldown) then operatives can increase their stunlock to 7 seconds which is one second more than the assassins can manage at this point (which is moot since its getting a cooldown next patch. I don't understand why... an assassin CAN complain about an operative when you have a force/tech immune ability that after your "initial" stun lock opening on an operative makes you impervious to any substantial damage for 5 seconds which pretty much means you have 11 seconds to attack an operative without taking damage (on a 45 second cooldown). Honestly I don't know exactly what you want? more invincible time?

 

my problem is that the stabs you do while I'm stunned kill me in seconds. Your knife attacks do too much damage. I'm half past dead before the stun wears off. But 1.2 fixes all of this and i'm happy.

[Uuhh]

and they actually dont respect their promo money since they v already lost more than half of their customers in 3 months..

when i joined the game i had to wait 200 peoples queues to login while now is like i play in a private server with light activity

 

And most of those costumers will probably re-sub once 1.2 hits, that's how it works in most MMO's. Rift was in the exact same situation after launch, with "naysayers" un-subbing and calling it a failure because it was over-hyped, causing people to have insane expectations.

 

I don't know where you get your numbers from, but i dare say that the player base seems significantly smaller than it is, due to the amount of new servers BW released, instead of letting the old ones fill up.

Edited March 29, 2012 by Uuhh

[Mr_Pancakes]

We aren't... If we did then we'd get nerfed again, we aren't allowed to kill other players in pvp. It's forbidden.

 

It's been said by George or w/e his name is that the reason we get nerfed is because of "measurable statistics" that show if there is a "team of operatives" (And i'll be damned if I have ever seen one of those... I don't think they exist) that stun lock people to death they won't be as likely to resubscribe. Pure BS.

 

Everyone that has ever said "Operatives are overpowered" after the first nerf, has NEVER EVER been able to prove it. We have to work harder for our kills, and are easier to kill ourselves.

 

I guess we just put faith in the wrong company, and we damn sure picked the wrong class.

 

i tottally agree b4 the patch u where the most feared now i can take 2 of you down as a vanguard they kinda destroyed u

[trimetros]

if u remmber then rift merged fast thats why they didnt lose customers back then ...i believe that some ppl idd ll return or use their last game card and stop ...tbh my server has less customers than a minimarket^^

 

my numbers are actually the truth ... i had to w8 200 people queue to enter the game (15mins time) at start of swotr ... why tell lies anyway? i still play the game

and the numbers in a server are easy to b watched ..just create 1 imperial + 1 republic player , play alot as i do and login both sides andwatch activity at fleet

at 12 oclock in the mornin 15 50lvls from imp side 6-7 50 lvls republics ...if this aint light then what would b?

Edited March 29, 2012 by trimetros

[Ahebish]

The ppl that complan about Operative/scoundrel nerf have obviously never been on the receiving end of an attack by a Operative/scoundrel "tag team". Last WZ I played (I play tank assassin), these 2 operatives were following ppl around and killing them in seconds, because their stuns, unlike mine, barely fill the resolve bar.

 

this needed to be done, try being on the receiving end and you will agree.

 

I cast 1 electricute and the resolve bar is full (or very close to it) and unless I'm deception specced, there is no way I'll kill a person before it wears off.

 

What the hell do you think happens when you are marked as being a scrapper/concealment operative?!

 

We die just as friggin fast as you do... so stop crying about it, and L2P.

 

Oh and to answer your question I have been jumped by a pair of scrappers, In fact THEY ALWAYS JUMP ME. Why? Because neither can beat me 1on1 and they know it.

 

It's called tactics... maybe you should learn to utilize some?

 

For the record genius: We didn't used to be able to chain stun. prior to 1.1.1. you have noone to blame but yourself for that.

 

oh and for the record genius. We have no gap closer like you do.

 

oh and for the record genius. We have no knockback like you do.

 

oh and for the record genius. We don't have a Tank stance that increases armor by 150%.

 

 

Here's the differences between your class and mine

 

Bioware gave you guys all the utility our class lacks.

 

They gave us all the damage your class lacks.

 

Here's a suggestion.. Find another sin and do exactly what operatives do. 2v1 people down in seconds... Oh you've never actually tried this before? I've seen sins do this...and you know what.

 

Your class is overpowered because I die in a few seconds when I have no gap closer to runaway with, I have no tank stance to increase my armor by 150%, I have no knockback I can use.

Edited March 29, 2012 by Ahebish

[Ahebish]

The amount of threats of unsubscribing in these threads is pathetic. Also, if anyone honestly thinks that the dev teams doesn't care about their subscribers, or in this case, the subscribers who play operatives, you are ignorant and naive. BW has put allot of money into this game, and they plan to do so in the future aswell. If anything the class just lacks direction, and it's a common problem for most rogue classes.

 

They didn't put 300mil into operatives.

 

Quit being stupid.

 

But they put $18,000,000/month into sorcs and sages.

 

P.S. Open your eyes... every class is getting nerf'd except, Marauders/Sents, Jugs/Guardians and Shadowns/Sins.

 

You don't hear a word from those classes do you? Because 66% of those classes are getting boosted, while 2 remain untouched, and everyone else receives a nerf.

 

BW is trying to cover up the fact that this is operatives 5th consecutive nerf.

 

Forgive me if I don't shed a *********** tear for sorcs/sages.

Edited March 29, 2012 by Ahebish