let's see: two melee! stuns: check aoe stun? no, it's a mezz. a slow: check a root: only if skilled a movement speed breaker? what is that supposed to be? a shield: yeah pretty weak best aoe: are you kidding? 3 hits. everyone in 5 miles knows, when we cast it. animation delay. 3 hits? hello death from above. solid range burst: all right, now i am sure, you don't even play an operative. snipe + rifle shot + overload shot (carbine burst) = burst? vanish: check.

his problem lies not in the last line, its in the first. every team of a certain class will kill one opponent in a matter of seconds.

it's because of the famous gang of operatives analprobing players.

i agree. the operative gear pre-50 looks sometimes amazing. you have very nice uniforms and such. the 50 pvp gear looks somehow like a pyjama with metal plates glued on it.

you are so damn right! it's hard to believe, how stupid and uninformed most of the playerbase is, regarding operatives.

^this! the 4 piece-bonus is a joke. the only thing we can do is stick with the 2 piece-bonus of the rakata set and screw the rest.

anyone still thought the devs have a clue? remember: we are in between 5% of a marauder. (lacking the utility, superior defense and sustained damage...)

i thought everything you need against a rancor is a rock. or was it the rock??

someone at the bioware hq rolls a 0-15000 dice.

and if anyone is still alive, he throws his translator in the ring who finishes everyone off

no one says that we can't do all these things. i would guess every good operative does them. but - and that is a big BUT(t): every other class can do these things better than us. every other class has more utility, more sustained damage, more control and adds more to team- and objective-based pvp with less effort.

what is your point? your cc breaker is not always up. check. operatives are not always out of combat and in stealth. op told of 1on1 situations. and i gave advice what to do in such a situation IF you have your cd ready. it's you guys that all wohoooo panic wohooo, who got the problems. time your cc, knock him back and root him. then either run away to other ppl or heal yourself or los. i'm playing against other ops or scoundrels every day and they don't kill me if they don't get me off guard with no cooldowns left. yeah we can vanish, every 2 minutes (skilled) with either no dots or no ae-damage or stealth-detection nearby. it's always the same. if you die it's the other op-ness, not your own fault. strange, that there are plenty of players that roflstomp operatives. must be the weather. what i think is not the point. but allright, i tell you: bw has no f.ucking clue what this class was, is, and will be. they implemented a stealthy front burst class that relied only on it's damage in the first few seconds. thats how the class was designed. they heard all the qq and "reworked" it aka crippled it's burst on three ends: reduce the stun duration, reduce the armor penetration and reduced the damage of hidden strike. that was tough, but we arranged with the changes, especially because we now had the ability to stun ppl even longer with the hidden strike/debilitate combo. people continued to freak out because the initial burst was still high and especialy undergeared opponents still died without a chance. so they nerfed biochem and surge. (not because of the ops but we were heavily affected) still the good ops managed to perform well, even if we got NOTHING in return. no gap closer, no increased sustained damage, no utility. ops still had to rely on the front burst and nothing else. and with 1.2 bioware still has no clue how this class works and how it should be. most of the ops i know and read on the forums would gladly trade a big proportion of their initial burst into more utility or sustained damage. bioware doesn't care, because we are in between 5% of marauder damage. which may be true, but totally forgets the superior utility, defense and sustained damage of the marauder. but anyway. bad players will be bad and ops will kill them in 1.2. and then they complain in the forums. no, we are not their biggest issue, healing in generell and sorcs in special are. you could see that, because bioware did nothing to decrease our initial burst (the hs-nerf doesn't count, because it's not our usual rotation to vanish and -> 2nd hidden strike) no, they don't nerf our burst, in fact they just nerfed our sustained damage further, with increasing the cd on backstab by 33%. which means lesser backstabs = lesser acid blades = lesser sustained damage. and again, they did that without any compensation.

cc-breaker > knockback + root > dead operative. i really don't know what's the big deal. thousands of players now how to deal with operatives. they know when to break the cc, they know that they are dead meat if hold in range, that they are squishy once there cds are popped.

so i guess you don't play an operative as you adress us with "they". so how do you come to these statements? i almost never crit for 5k. and don't tell me i'm doing it wrong as most operatives with bm/rakata-gear will tell you the same!

it has nothing to do with his gear. there are many ops out there with nearly bis-gear and they don't do such things you mention. i am full bm+ 2rakata + rakata mainhand all modded and i happen to crit for 5k+ on very bad geared sorcs/sages w/o bubble. are you sure, there was no other damage-source than him? maybe a sniper? you never notice when those guys crit you like hell while some other guy fights you.

no, not possible. not after the hiddenstrike/acid blade/stun/surge/stim-nerf. no operative at this point will crit a guy with 500 expertise for 6k or drop a tank from 100-0 in seconds. most operatives don't get the 5k crit-medal anymore, and if - only with stims on fresh-50 sorcs.

es geht überhaupt nicht darum, dass unser schaden etwas runtergeht. das ist den meisten leiderprobten operatives inzwischen ziemlich egal. die leute spielen frustriert weiter, rerollen, speccen auf heal oder quitten ganz. ist also wumpe. die probleme mit der klasse sind seit monaten bekannt. in unzähligen threads hat die community auf höfliche und sehr konstruktive weise dargestellt, dass es nicht der damage ist, sondern die fehlende utility. die devs interessiert das nicht. ganz im gegenteil, sie sind sogar noch so dreist zu sagen, dass die klasse ok ist, weil sie ja im damage 5% and den marauder heranreicht. abgesehen davon, dass das immernoch 5 prozent weniger damage als der marauder sind, unterschlagen sie einfach, dass der marauder sowohl was def, utility und sustained damage angeht, dem operative um meilen voraus ist. die meisten operatives würden herzlich gerne einen teil des frontburst (der ja inzwischen schon ohne kompensation gekrüppelt wurde) hergeben, wenn wir dafür, wie ich_bin richtig sagt, einen knockback oder einen gapcloser bekommen würden. oder irgendeine utility, die uns im gruppenorientierten, objective-basierten pvp einen wert gibt, der den andern klassen vergleichbar ist.

vergleicht hier ernsthaft irgendwer nen op mit nem sin? das kann ja nur in die hose gehen. problem 1: wir haben nur front-end burst. wir können (außer, dass wir re-stealthen bzw. vanishen) unseren burst nicht kontrollieren oder durch combos aufbauen. er ist immer am anfang des kampfes bzw. dann, wenn wir in den kampf einsteigen. das ist ein problem, da es focusschaden extrem schwierig macht. problem 2: unsere zwei stärksten attacken sind situativ, da sie entweder stealth und/oder eine postionierung hinter dem gegner verlangen. wenn sich ein sin und ein op im stealth begegnen, wer wird wohl die initiative haben? der op, der erst um den gegner herumschleichen muss, oder der sin, der von allen seiten eröffnen kann? problem 3: wir haben kaum effektive def-cd's. shield probe und dodge sind weit schlechter, als sie klingen. shield probe absorbiert absolut marginalen schaden, dodge lässt uns white-damage vermeiden und reinigt nicht alle dots. unser einzig effektiver def-cd ist cloaking screen, alle 2 minuten und dann nur, wenn wir nicht gedottet sind oder kein flächenschaden in der nähe ist. problem 4: wir haben keine gap-closer. stealth ist als gap-closer nicht zu verwenden, da es hier um einen gap-closer in combat geht. unser slow hat 10 meter range, wenn ein gegner aus dieser distanz ist, wird es extrem schwierig, ihn einzuholen, wenn er sich gut bewegt. problem 5: unser mezz hat 10 meter range, der des sins 30. unser stun ist meele range, unser slow ist quasi-melee range. für distanzen über 10 meter haben wir rifle shot und snipe. die eine macht kaum schaden, die andere kostet zu viel energie. problem 6: wir haben im objective-pvp weniger utility. wir können uns nicht den ball schnappen, durchs feuer sprinten, uns in der gegnerischen endzone für 5 sekunden gegen fast alles immun machen und scoren. genau das können sins. mit ihrer immunität können sie in voidstar oder alderaan lange genug eine base gegen beliebig viele gegner halten, bis reinforcements da sind. wir können das nicht. vergleich nochmal irgendjemand assassins mit operativs. wir haben genau einen vorteil: unser front-end burst ist stärker. in allem anderen ist uns der sin überlegen. (wer jetzt mit heilung kommt: der sin hat passiv heilung, die ihn keine ressourcen kostet) damit will ich nicht sagen, dass der operative unspielbar oder besonders schlecht ist, aber warum sollte jemand einen operative einem sin vorziehen, vorausgesetzt beide haben gleichen skill und gleiches gear. richtig, es gibt keinen grund.

if you think an op is better than an equal assassin, you are insanely retareded!

bad player is bad. sorry!

that explains a lot. man that guy is not good! his movement is clumsy, he turns like a truck, he runs into stealth-detection drones. he is a bad operative owning even worse opponents.

maybe op made some kind of joke and i am missing the point and stuff. tell me he isn't serious!

are you kidding? that is your reason for a nerf? a bad operative killing an even worse random? wow! you must be awesome in pvp!

op setbonus is pretty lame. longer duration of infiltrate? what the heck! so i stick with the 2-rakata-bonus (which is nice, 15 percent critchance on backstab). a new setbonus (that actually makes sense or is an improvement) would be a good idea, but i guess they won't do it.

that is just so wrong. no wonder everyone is crying about ops. most people have no f.ucking clue.