Why were Sorcerers ever considered OP?

[Varicite]

But it was always warriors who were excessive crybabies about it.

 

To be fair, a frost mage could pretty much make a warrior their bish for all of vanilla and TBC. It was really very pathetic.

 

For warriors, I guess. Heh.

[Ryotknife]

Or mr nitpicker I am talking about my 4% aoe MEELEE ranged damage recution, my aoe centralised around myself 20% accuracy reduction and my aoe around myself 2.5 second (3 with gear) stun, and my meelee ranged interrupt. Which is on top of my 2 ranged taunts.

 

.........so your 50% has no actual basis?

 

i could claim that my assassin reduces all damage from a group of enemies by 100% since he can punt them off the catwalk.

[Caelrie]

To be fair, a frost mage could pretty much make a warrior their bish for all of vanilla and TBC. It was really very pathetic.

 

For warriors, I guess. Heh.

 

WoW was a rock-paper-scissors game. After the warrior got beaten by the mage, he could take out his frustration on a helpless warlock.

 

The punchline here is that no warrior ever thought it was wrong that they could so easily kill warlocks, but they all thought it was unfair that mages could do the same to them.

[Altruismo]

Seriously clutching

 

Yes, you are.

 

Your definition of CC appears to be "stops enemies from damaging friendlies".

Snares/roots do not do this, even knockbacks don't do it against ranged DPS unless you manage to LOS.

 

My definition of CC is "something that affects the ability of enemies to change their own positioning in relation to the positioning of friendlies". You know, Controlling the Crowd.

Snares/roots do this, mezzes do this, knockbacks do this, stuns do this, pulls (including extrication) do this.

CC is about movement - not damage or healing.

[biowareftw]

Only bad players think the number of buttons makes a class hard. One of the hardest classes to play in WoW PVP was an arcane mage, which used fewer buttons than almost any other.

 

LOL? This is where I leave this discussion. I have seen some stupid things said before, but this takes the cake.

 

I played damn near every class in WoW throughout the years. Arcane mages one of the hardest to play? Are people this delusional? Yes I guess they are. Frost mage wasn't even that hard and it was leaps and bounds harder then any ranged in this game minus slinger/sniper. Freakin fire was easy and it was harder then arcane. Arcane was simply lol.

 

In vanilla/bc warrior was probably the hardest (constant stance dancing). Then it was rogue after they dumbed down warriors. Now? Prob hunter (was easiest in vanilla).

 

Arcane mages? Hard? Uh no. That might be the only class currently in that game that is as dumbed down as sage/sorc/merc/commando in this game.

 

Enjoy this delusional world in which you live in.

Edited March 28, 2012 by biowareftw

[Guioki]

.........so your 50% has no actual basis?

 

i could claim that my assassin reduces all damage from a group of enemies by 100% since he can punt them off the catwalk.

 

or 50% approximately does have a basis, in the fact that all those debuffs combined produce ACTUAL damage reduction, as in, if the enemy were to apply his attack to a friendly, the damage would be reduced. As in jumping back up wont increase their damage, having max resolve wont increase their damage, nothing they do will actually increase their damage until the debuffs I apply wear off.

[Ryotknife]

WoW was a rock-paper-scissors game. After the warrior got beaten by the mage, he could take out his frustration on a helpless warlock.

 

The punchline here is that no warrior ever thought it was wrong that they could so easily kill warlocks, but they all thought it was unfair that mages could do the same to them.

 

warlocks did....okay against warriors until they made their selfhealing affected by mortal strike.

[Caelrie]

LOL? This is where I leave this discussion. I have seen some stupid things said before, but this takes the cake.

 

I played damn near every class in WoW throughout the years. Arcane mages one of the hardest to play? Are people this delusional? Yes I guess they are. Frost mage wasn't even that hard and it was leaps and bounds harder then any ranged in this game minus slinger/sniper. Freakin fire was easy and it was harder then arcane. Arcane was simply lol.

 

In vanilla/bc warrior was probably the hardest (constant stance dancing). Then it was rogue after they dumbed down warriors. Now? Prob hunter (was easiest in vanilla).

 

Arcane mages? Hard? Uh no. That might be the only class currently in that game that is as dumbed down as sage/sorc/merc/commando in this game.

 

Enjoy this delusional world in which you live in.

 

I bet you never even tried the arcane spec in PvP. Actually, I bet you never even played a mage beyond level 29 or so. You were a warrior.

[Ryotknife]

or 50% approximately does have a basis, in the fact that all those debuffs combined produce ACTUAL damage reduction, as in, if the enemy were to apply his attack to a friendly, the damage would be reduced. As in jumping back up wont increase their damage, having max resolve wont increase their damage, nothing they do will actually increase their damage until the debuffs I apply wear off.

 

....accuracy reduction does not equal damage mitigation.... the reasons are obvious. you can pop oil slick and have the next 3 attacks hit you, or they can also miss you. it is completely RANDOM with no input from your enemies affecting its outcome. not to mention oil slick is an extremely SMALL area that takes literally two steps to get out of.

 

the ONLY part that is ACTUAL mitigation is the -4% damage from targets hit by flameburst and flame sweep

 

CC =/= to mitigation because, for one, you can not put a number on this. also, CC is counterable.

[Guioki]

Yes, you are.

 

Your definition of CC appears to be "stops enemies from damaging friendlies".

Snares/roots do not do this, even knockbacks don't do it against ranged DPS unless you manage to LOS.

 

My definition of CC is "something that affects the ability of enemies to change their own positioning in relation to the positioning of friendlies". You know, Controlling the Crowd.

Snares/roots do this, mezzes do this, knockbacks do this, stuns do this, pulls (including extrication) do this.

CC is about movement - not damage or healing.

 

No u...

 

Also snares do affect the enemies ability to deal damage, that is called kiting. My definition of CC is something that affects the ENEMYs ability to fight, and something that affects your team or your damage is called UTILITY. You cant class it as both CC and utility, and it is far more utility then it could ever be classed as CC.

 

Given your reasoning every ability in the game has a flow on effect which could lead to being classed as CC under your definition.

[Bluetickone]

They have good group utility, are good at running the ball/assisting the ball carrier in Huttball, and can heal.

 

That's about all I've got. 1v1's were a joke, my Tankassin, Marauder, and PT Pyro could smoke them without a second thought. They had no burst and their best ability (Force Lightning) was channeled, so it was interrupt city on that.

 

you cant be serious....lol...they have the most utility of any class in any WZ. Its not even worth seriously debating.

[Guioki]

....accuracy reduction does not equal damage mitigation.... the reasons are obvious. you can pop oil slick and have the next 3 attacks hit you, or they can also miss you. it is completely RANDOM with no input from your enemies affecting its outcome. not to mention oil slick is an extremely SMALL area that takes literally two steps to get out of.

 

the ONLY part that is ACTUAL mitigation is the -4% damage from targets hit by flameburst and flame sweep

 

CC =/= to mitigation because, for one, you can not put a number on this. also, CC is counterable.

 

Accuracy reduction of 20% will over time, give an average of 20% damage reduction. You knock back COULD knock their entire team closer to your ball carrier because they took this magical 2 steps you speak of.

 

Also not all CC is counter-able.

[Redmarx]

To answer the original question:

 

Bad players think that sorcs, dps mercs, and dps operatives are overpowered.

 

Bioware listens to bad players, see 1.2 patch notes.

 

Hope that was simple and clear enough.

Edited March 28, 2012 by Redmarx

[Ryotknife]

LOL? This is where I leave this discussion. I have seen some stupid things said before, but this takes the cake.

 

I played damn near every class in WoW throughout the years. Arcane mages one of the hardest to play? Are people this delusional? Yes I guess they are. Frost mage wasn't even that hard and it was leaps and bounds harder then any ranged in this game minus slinger/sniper. Freakin fire was easy and it was harder then arcane. Arcane was simply lol.

 

In vanilla/bc warrior was probably the hardest (constant stance dancing). Then it was rogue after they dumbed down warriors. Now? Prob hunter (was easiest in vanilla).

 

Arcane mages? Hard? Uh no. That might be the only class currently in that game that is as dumbed down as sage/sorc/merc/commando in this game.

 

Enjoy this delusional world in which you live in.

 

wait wait wait wait....

 

okay now, ive nearly hit gladiator as a resto druid (a spec that i never played prior and whose gear was two seasons behind) with a warrior partner. and my war partner was TERRIBLE. no shield, no stance dancing, all he did was tunnel. we still made it that high.

 

now, ill admit a warrior in the hands of an exceptionally skilled player is DEADLY, more so than most classes with a really skilled player (hunter being the only other class where if played by the extremely skilled would make me tremble). but the fact that even terribads could achieve a high level of success as a warrior is kinda a black mark against the class.

 

and stunheralds didnt help this.

[Ryotknife]

Accuracy reduction of 20% will over time, give an average of 20% damage reduction. You knock back COULD knock their entire team closer to your ball carrier because they took this magical 2 steps you speak of.

 

Also not all CC is counter-able.

 

over an INFINITE amount of time, yes.

 

are you saying that i am GUARANTEED for my oil slick to give me an overall 20% damage reduction over the course of its duration?

[biowareftw]

I bet you never even tried the arcane spec in PvP. Actually, I bet you never even played a mage beyond level 29 or so. You were a warrior.

 

Please just stop. I was arcane when it had a hybrid (POM ff bolt) and did things like this with minimal buttons and the greatest of ease.

 

 

I was LOL arcane and steamrolled everyone at the start of WOTLK, before it was toned down (it had to be). I was arcane raiding and crapped on everyones dps, to the point that I didn't even bother getting Uldular gear (it didn't have haste on it so I didn't bother). I led dps in the next raid (the arena one) in Nax gear (LOL) with engineering haste enchant and troll racial and because I had the absorb talent that dumb people didn't spec into (you could solo bosses in nax before they nerfed this talent, by spellstealing boneshield off a mob in the military quarter).

 

Arcane was by far the most faceroll spec I ever played in pve/pvp. The engineering chant/troll racial made it even sillier. The haste was simply out of control.

 

Now go cry in a corner because of the 1.2 nerf. You probably also thought arcane mages didn't need nerfed at the start of WOTLK lol. You are clueless and delusional.

[Guioki]

No it could give you 100% instead, quit being stupid.

[Ryotknife]

wait a second, beginning of wotlk was dominated by dks and paladins.....

[Altruismo]

My definition of CC is something that affects the ENEMYs ability to fight

 

What, like taking their target and moving it 30m away and out of range?

 

Please, explain to me at length how this does not affect their ability to fight.

Edited March 28, 2012 by Altruismo

[Bluetickone]

wait wait wait wait....

 

okay now, ive nearly hit gladiator as a resto druid (a spec that i never played prior and whose gear was two seasons behind) with a warrior partner. and my war partner was TERRIBLE. no shield, no stance dancing, all he did was tunnel. we still made it that high.

 

now, ill admit a warrior in the hands of an exceptionally skilled player is DEADLY, more so than most classes with a really skilled player (hunter being the only other class where if played by the extremely skilled would make me tremble). but the fact that even terribads could achieve a high level of success as a warrior is kinda a black mark against the class.

 

and stunheralds didnt help this.

 

who cares? Blizz has real PVP, its competitive, crossserver....BW has crap passing off as cupcakes...esp on low pop servers. Its not real competition in any sense of the word. Trion had cross-server everything months ahead of BW with a 1/5th the budget.

[Ryotknife]

No it could give you 100% instead, quit being stupid.

 

it could give me 100%, it could give me 0% or anything in the middle.

 

do you see now the flaw in your argument? the fact that you used COULD instead of WOULD merely proves my point.

 

if i pop oil slick, there is a chance that the next 3 attacks will miss. however, unless the opponent has enough accuracy to remove my ability to dodge any attack, the next 3 attacks could also miss even if i didnt use oil slick.

Edited March 28, 2012 by Ryotknife

[ocping]

From what I hear from sage friends, there are 2 problems:

 

1) Force was basically unlimited (unless you're bad)

2) Heal-sages can easily outheal other healing classes with the best AoE heal, best single target heal and the only class with an instant HP boost through shielding

 

I don't believe they are overpowered though, since like many have stated, they are very easy to shut down in PVP. Just tone down the values and they will be fine.

[Ryotknife]

who cares? Blizz has real PVP, its competitive, crossserver....BW has crap passing off as cupcakes...esp on low pop servers. Its not real competition in any sense of the word. Trion had cross-server everything months ahead of BW with a 1/5th the budget.

 

bah, arenas are killing wow now. arenas were fun the first year, but there is a reason why arena participation dropped by 75% between burning crusade when they were first released and the next expansion wrath of the lich king.

 

when everything was new and exciting and you could enjoy moderate success with any spec/combinations to a certain degree, arenas were fun. but when the arena metagame started to form, if you didnt play X spec of Y class in combo Z, dont even bother to queue no matter how skilled you are.

 

some of my fondest pvp memories in wow were playing as strange comps. like shadowpriest/rogue/feral or triple warlock and actually enjoying a fair degree of success.

Edited March 28, 2012 by Ryotknife

[Varicite]

Please just stop. I was arcane when it had a hybrid (POM ff bolt) and did things like this with minimal buttons and the greatest of ease.

 

 

I was LOL arcane and steamrolled everyone at the start of WOTLK, before it was toned down (it had to be). I was arcane raiding and crapped on everyones dps, to the point that I didn't even bother getting Uldular gear (it didn't have haste on it so I didn't bother). I led dps in the next raid (the arena one) in Nax gear (LOL) with engineering haste enchant and troll racial and because I had the absorb talent that dumb people didn't spec into (you could solo bosses in nax before they nerfed this talent, by spellstealing boneshield off a mob in the military quarter).

 

Arcane was by far the most faceroll spec I ever played in pve/pvp. The engineering chant/troll racial made it even sillier. The haste was simply out of control.

 

Now go cry in a corner because of the 1.2 nerf. You probably also thought arcane mages didn't need nerfed at the start of WOTLK lol. You are clueless and delusional.

 

I honestly thought we were still talking about vanilla/BC era (when mages actually did dominate warriors w/out breaking a sweat), back during the times when Arcane actually was a fairly difficult spec to do well w/ due to its reliance on hardcasting extremely mana-intensive Arcane Blasts, and Arcane Missiles was still a 5-sec channel.

 

I played a hybrid Arc/frost mage back then, and I can tell you right now that it was far more difficult than Frost in PvP, which I also played for years.

 

I didn't realize you were talking about an era when warriors could easily stomp an Arcane mage w/out blinking, and were a good challenge for Frost mages.

[biowareftw]

I honestly thought we were still talking about vanilla/BC era (when mages actually did dominate warriors w/out breaking a sweat), back during the times when Arcane actually was a fairly difficult spec to do well w/ due to its reliance on hardcasting extremely mana-intensive Arcane Blasts, and Arcane Missiles was still a 5-sec channel.

 

I played a hybrid Arc/frost mage back then, and I can tell you right now that it was far more difficult than Frost in PvP, which I also played for years.

 

I didn't realize you were talking about an era when warriors could easily stomp an Arcane mage w/out blinking, and were a good challenge for Frost mages.

 

Uh no. Warriors were never a challenge for frost mages in the last two expansions. The only melee that could give me a good duel IF they had their cooldowns was rogue and they had to be really good.

 

If you were playing arcane before WOTLK (minus speccing into pom pyro in vanilla)? You were just dumb or were raiding. It was simply a bad spec. Then it became complete faceroll and a good pvp spec.

 

Frost was always better 1 v 1 with the exception of the start of WOTLK where arcane was the most out of control spec ever seen. It was more hilariously OP then even shadowfrost, SL/SL.

 

I highly doubt the person who said arcane was the hardest pvp spec was talking about BC lol. I mean really...Who the hell would pvp with that spec before arcane barrage. That is like saying well I played fury warrior in BC...Why the hell would you do that?

 

Anyone who says "arcane is the hardest pvp spec" should be laughed at. It is the EASIEST pvp spec. Just because it isn't a great arena spec doesn't make it "hard". It means it isn't good in small group fights. Frost on the other hand? Always excelled at that. It also excels at burst...which makes someone playing arcane outside of when it was op as hell? Just dumb. Fire? Different story. Sometimes it is devastating in BG's depending on the patch.

 

To those crying that the "mage class" doesn't beat warriors in this game? A) you are a healer hybrid, not a mage class. B) the "mage class" is sniper/slinger and it completely counters a sentinel/marauder. They literally have no chance of beating you in a 1v1 if you play right. So the "mage class" does counter warriors in this game.

Edited March 28, 2012 by biowareftw