Rage Jugg in 1.2? Nerfed or Buffed those that have played the PTR

[bananaface]

And you have yet to give a reason why dropping a BM Sorc in 5-6 seconds after engaging that target is considered balanced gameplay. Killing someone as equally geared as me in 4 globals isn't balanced gameplay.

 

if he is afk or just standing still spamming rocks, sure i can kill him in a couple of globals np.

but does that mean rage is OP or does that mean those sages just fail?

every class has plenty of utility to get away from a rage jugg, though a rage jugg has plenty of utility to counter most of it aswell but on long cd's.

i can do the same damage with vengeance but it aint so bursty and so can other classes/specs, so i dont see the problem.

 

the games pvp atm is fastpase even if bioware likes it or not, if they want it to change they need to completely revamp te game.

 

oh and BM geared you dont have 550 expertise, maybe in half cent/half pve it's that low. i'm half champ half bm and close to 800.

also 6k+ only happens on a unshielded sage/sorc while you popped a trinket/ardenal/exp buff and thats the only class you'll crit 6k+ on.

 

pls go on, i'm enjoying bashing all your flawed arguements all too much.

[bananaface]

immortal and vengeance are so hard to play, it makes me sweat...or is it just the darn heat?

ya know, i played immortal and vengeance before i went rage.

immortal is so hard with chain stunning someone or a healer, takes skill bro.

vengeance was so hard to a 1-2-3-4 rotation, totally mind numbing!

 

rage does more dmg overall cause aoe dmg is higher, what a surprise!

my guildie sniper pulls 700k+ aswell in voidstar if he uses orbital strike on cd, oh wait so do the sorcs and so do the mercs and so do the pyrotech pt's and a lot more other classes/specs.

 

if you want your immortal spec to improve, cool by me but this is a thread about rage.

so don't QQ bout people bashing you for bringing it up over and over again, cuz that's all that you do (apart from giving fail arguements over and over).

 

if yur still not done making a fool out of yourself, i encourage you to continue and maybe i'll award you with a cool title "clown of the week".

[Wrothag]

 

oh and BM geared you dont have 550 expertise, maybe in half cent/half pve it's that low. i'm half champ half bm and close to 800.

 

i think 703 is the max expertise in-game atm. in full bm vindicator i have 703, in full bm war leader 700

 

edit: seems like 704 for sentinels/marauders, mercenary/commando and agents/smugglers.

Edited March 29, 2012 by Wrothag

[bananaface]

i think 703 is the max expertise in-game atm. in full bm vindicator i have 703, in full bm war leader 700

 

edit: seems like 704 for sentinels/marauders, mercenary/commando and agents/smugglers.

 

using 2 BM relics?

[Wrothag]

using 2 BM relics?

 

yes, only bm items equipped

[bananaface]

ah y, props looked at ma interface with the 15% buff, yur right.

 

am at 681 nao, missing BM chest legs boots OH 2 relics. darn BM tokens never drop so bought most with merc/wz commendations zzzz chinese grind.

 

edit:

still doesn't change the point made, 550 expertise or 700, thats not full BM atleast.

Edited March 29, 2012 by bananaface

[Foodaddy]

This list shows that you have no freaking clue what you ware talking about. Go read the freaking patch notes.

 

under buffs you might want to add the CD reduction on Force Crush to 18 seconds.

 

Also the reduction of Decimate isn't a nerf. Its specifically addressing that you will be hitting too hard with the new, proper, itemizations in 1.2. The battlemaster gear in 1.2, when it is upgraded, will have LOADS more power and surge.

 

Here http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/bmcomparisonwarrior.jpg

 

Comparison of the itemization changes for Vindicators set.

 

These stats easily make up the difference from the 10% damage lost from smash, because those new stats on your gear is going to effecting all your abilities. And honestly if Rage would remain the same with the new itemization, it would be too easy. My current set has been modified to look 1.2 stats, and its OP. OP as ****. I can Instagib a tank if he is standing next to the person he is guarding. With a final force crush tick crit upward to 2k, a smash on a warrior for 4k and a transfered damage from his healer being somewhere around 3K, that is 9K damage, done to a tank, in the time span of one global. I just freaking did it against one of the best geared Guardians on my server. Its not pug pwning, its disgustingly OP. I 6K crit every game. If the spec %'s remained the same, especially with the new Expertise values, I'd probably be hitting people with 10k crits pretty frequently and it would be back to the days of Expertise buff stacking, and no one wants that.

 

You also left out the Rage free self heal, but I guess you will always consider that ability to be use harmful then good, which is fine, enjoy being at the bottom of the rated lists.

 

The crash nerf is universal, it looks like you are just trying to inflate the list of nerfs to prove your point. Keep grasping at them straws, because a person being resolve capped shouldn't stop you from either building Shockwave or landing a smash. Only a bad player is unable to hit people who are on resolve.

 

 

Again, if you think rage is getting 'nerfed' then you havn't taken all the warriors changes into consideration. You barely read the patch notes and you don't take into account that the stats gained in the new itemization will pretty much cover any damage reduction on skills. Its staying exactly in the same place it has and imo its better then before.

 

Your right about burst being better then sustained but you are also forgetting that Vicious Throw is now @ 30%. Again, more heavy burst abilities covering the damage lost in rage. Rage would be brokenly over powered if it didn't recieve any nerfs with all the universal buffs that warriors are getting

 

I want to believe you, I REALLY DO. But if you play immortal, you must be slightly crazy... so I can't completely trust you

[OeSan]

You don't seem to get what I am trying to convey.

 

Currently Rage is balanced around what warriors would be wearing on default. After I min/maxed my gear my damage increased pretty significantly.

 

I am critting Sages who have 550 expertise for 6.4k. You don't think that is the slightest bit OP? Hitting a BM Sage for nearly half their health with one ability?

 

Bioware has stated over and over again that they do not want PvP to play out like WoW, that being fast short battles. They want PvP to be decided over longer fights, and other class changes reflect this sentiment

 

The damage, from my perspective, will most likely even out and be the same as it would if you were wearings the current default BM Vindicators, but the reason why it is a buff is because we can now have more sustain between smash bombs.

 

Its a buff to players who can handle the changes and utilize the new sustained DPS properly. Its a nerf to players who DEPENDED on their high burst to kill targets, rather then smart management of abilities.

 

Oh, ok. So it is a nerf, I see. and you approve of it. Thanks for clarifying.

[OeSan]

And you have yet to give a reason why dropping a BM Sorc in 5-6 seconds after engaging that target is considered balanced gameplay. Killing someone as equally geared as me in 4 globals isn't balanced gameplay.

BM sorcs have 18k health, whats 18-6? Hmmmmmm

[Schwarzwald]

BM sorcs have 18k health, whats 18-6? Hmmmmmm

 

Most Damage Sorcs Min/Max their stats and sit somewhere around 550 expertise and 16000 health.

 

Healers are a little trickier because they tend to wear full BM, but that still doesn't mean that they will ever be casting against a good jug. Best hopes they have of surviving is a sprint LoS with teammate CC and snares if they want to live longer then 10 seconds.

[Schwarzwald]

Oh, ok. So it is a nerf, I see. and you approve of it. Thanks for clarifying.

 

The spec is getting nerfed because sith warriors are getting buffed, so the spec remains pretty much where it was before, but now it has sustained dps in addition.

 

Anyways, I'm done with this thread.

 

15% Ravage damage buff, Crash removed from the game, things are looking up for my Immortal DPS.

[Alizaro]

Schwarzwald we get it. You were fortunate enough to have a healer in your group pvp to heal enough damage as you can deal in a warzone, I've seen the screenie. I shudder to think of the level of clumped up incompetence that allowed you to hit 750k damage in this class.

 

Stop please, you're nowhere near as pro as your currently op healer. Many of us can hit the same rotations as you using the same mods without considering ourselves pvp geniouses. Maybe some of us haven't done some of the pve you have. Maybe you get a few more dps per smash. Still I'd wager you're on a lesser server and you have no idea what competitive pvp is.

 

For that reason, I cannot wait till there's cross server pvp, but till then, step up off your high horse. Seriously this class is not op at all and I don't appreciate you acting like you're a damn genious and everyone else is a dummy. Trust me, you're not that good and this class does need some love. We'll see what 1.2 does.

 

A freshly trained pvp assassin tank can take my full bm and I'm no pvp slouch and guarantee she can take you too. There is still much to be desired for juggernaut and as op as you feel you are on your server, you're off base. Wait till rated wz's before you get so cocky.

 

Oh, forgot. 15% ravage buff? Rofl

 

One more thing. Take the immortal spec out of your sig, I'm embarassed for you.

Edited March 30, 2012 by Alizaro

[Ansultares]

edit and people people QQ about how i'm some dick who doesn't have anything to back it up.

 

http://i.imgur.com/hHwah.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/vJirp.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/GUIhd.jpg

I get it; you've got a pocket healer.

 

And what the guy above said.

 

And you have yet to give a reason why dropping a BM Sorc in 5-6 seconds after engaging that target is considered balanced gameplay. Killing someone as equally geared as me in 4 globals isn't balanced gameplay.

How is not their fault for going glass cannon?

 

Bioware has stated over and over again that they do not want PvP to play out like WoW, that being fast short battles. They want PvP to be decided over longer fights, and other class changes reflect this sentiment

I've heard this idea kicked about so many times in games, yet it never seems to materialize.

 

Nevermind that its completely contradicted by having such terribly balanced CC.

 

Also the reduction of Decimate isn't a nerf. Its specifically addressing that you will be hitting too hard with the new, proper, itemizations in 1.2. The battlemaster gear in 1.2, when it is upgraded, will have LOADS more power and surge.

I didn't realize that only juggernauts were getting new gear sets in 1.2.

 

Well now all is right with the world.

Edited March 31, 2012 by Ansultares

[Kallti]

If you are comparing classes, you also need to compare circumstances, that means you need to assume everyone has a 'pocket healer', because everyone should have a healer. That means if you accept a Jugg is good with a pocket healer, like Schwarz has proven, you accept Juggs are as good as other classes. You seem to agree with this because all you have in response to his proof is "You had a healer".

 

You can't simply say that Schwarz is only good because he had a healer, that's completely ridiculous, because anyone is able to have a healer, the fact that he kept that healer alive and the healer kept him alive is a testament to their success as a team working together. If I was a game designer, I would make decisions based on the assumption that everyone had a healer on their team because that's how you balance PvP correctly around team play.

 

Schwarz and others have posted videos and screenshots many times proving that good results with a Jugg can be achieved, yes he had a healer, but so should you, if you don't then that is your problem, not the class. You can't expect a class to stay alive without a healer, that's why we have healers in MMOs, because you die without them. That's by design.

 

Ranked matches will all have healers, which I thought was pretty obvious. It's how you work with those healers which matters, I personally love playing my Jugg, as soon as I enter a pug match I pick a healer and whisper them saying "if you look after me, I'll look after you" and I really feel like we make a difference to the match because I can keep them alive really well with all my control and he can obviously keep me alive with all their heals.

 

Healer + Jugg is a scary combo, just as scary, if not more than any other tank class because of the stuns and mobility we bring. DPS is not needed if you can stay alive and stop a cap/plant/score, in saying that though, DPS is possible as a Jugg as well. We really have it all, so a small nerf to Rage is not at all rude to me personally. I play my Jugg to win matches through control, DPS is secondary.

Edited April 11, 2012 by Kallti

[HollowVamp]

http://i.imgur.com/H258X.jpg

 

speak of the devil, it happened again. And this was up against and with some of the best players on the server, we capped our door with only 22 seconds remaining.

 

Are you guys really saying you want THIS to be a common thing? This damage output is just kinda ridiculous.

 

What if there were more of me in that warzone. Get ready for jug flavor of the month.

 

 

Also, please don't use pocket healers as an argument. PvP is a team effort and you should have healers with you, and when you are with a healer, Rage jugs are ridiculous.

 

i pop that dmg frequently on my sentinel, whos not getting nerfed. just saying.

[Darth_Sookie]

People need to stop looking at Rage Smash as "one" hit. It's technically three moves.

Charge or obliterate to proc crit.

Crush or choke to stack shockwave

Then Smash.

 

Lets say this sequence does 9k total to be very generous. That's 3k damage per gcd. It's still a lot sure, but not insane considering the relatively long cooldowns we are dealing with here. It's also spread out over several seconds.

 

In 1.2 we will be able to land instant 4 stack smashbombs though.

[Veeius]

It doesn't take much to see it's a kick in the junk nerf.

 

1) force alacrity gone, so 3 seconds more cd on smash & scream.

 

2) sundering throw transferred to veng

 

3) decimate reduced by 33% (10% down from original value)

 

And to "balance" this:

 

overpower - which is pants on head "special" - rage doesn't (or shouldn't) prioritize crit, it should prioritize power, which means the pay off for overpower is not really worth the chance of using it. Additionally, vicious slash is one of our weaker skills, even fully talented AND is fully mitigated by armor. it's not worth the time to use, it's not worth the rage to use.

 

So yes, we got SEVERAL kicks in the junk with no mitigating buffs.

[Lokithevicious]

Despite the nerfs I was still able to pull off a few 5k crit smashes today on voidstar. Granted I didn't get to do smash as often and some of them were only 3.5k, but if you still stack as much power and surge as possible its still possible to get decent numbers.

[Lrdprimus]

I dont mind the changes the fact im still blowing up so fast as a heavy armor Jugg is what i dont like about the game right now. IM still getting 5200 - 6k crits but the rotation is abit different and with our new heal im having a hard time gaining rage.

 

The no rage scream is nice. Im hoping to figure out a better rotation but the worse part is dieing SO FAST as a jugg.

 

 

 

If i could RAVAGE on the move would be epic buff IMO.

 

 

Get on it bio

[Schwarzwald]

I dont mind the changes the fact im still blowing up so fast as a heavy armor Jugg is what i dont like about the game right now. IM still getting 5200 - 6k crits but the rotation is abit different and with our new heal im having a hard time gaining rage.

 

The no rage scream is nice. Im hoping to figure out a better rotation but the worse part is dieing SO FAST as a jugg.

 

 

 

If i could RAVAGE on the move would be epic buff IMO.

 

 

Get on it bio

 

Being unable to land the 3 hits from ravage is the fault of the player.

[Lrdprimus]

Being unable to land the 3 hits from ravage is the fault of the player.

 

ya thats it some gets hit twice and says humm i probably should move thats totally the players fault

 

 

 

Trolls are cute today

[Lunnicus]

I get it; you've got a pocket healer.

 

And what the guy above said.

 

How is not their fault for going glass cannon?

 

I've heard this idea kicked about so many times in games, yet it never seems to materialize.

 

Nevermind that its completely contradicted by having such terribly balanced CC.

 

I didn't realize that only juggernauts were getting new gear sets in 1.2.

 

Well now all is right with the world.

 

I love how people like this guy see what they want to see. When he did 850k+ there were 3 heals on his team that did less than the top heals on the other team BY HALF. Almost 500k healer on other team so deffinitely not toal incompetence. Rage was uber, and with base warr buffs and stat changes it is rolling so much face it is rediculous. 4 Mara premades ftw!!

[unicornfive]

Being unable to land the 3 hits from ravage is the fault of the player.

 

Because you are noob enough to stay and get hit by it, it doesnt mean all players do it...

[lordofdamornin]

Being unable to land the 3 hits from ravage is the fault of the player.

 

Going to second this.

 

Riôt

[Schwarzwald]

Because you are noob enough to stay and get hit by it, it doesnt mean all players do it...

 

I hope you realize that it is near impossible to escape a ravage if you are slowed without using an escape, right?

 

You know that ability? Chilling Scream? You should use it more often.

 

Did you also know that you can land the 3rd hit on someone who moved behind you during the channel?

Edited April 13, 2012 by Schwarzwald