SWTOR Vs WoW: Blizzard gets it

[grandmthethird]

i don't care what blizzard says, i don't even care what bioware says, and i certainly don't care about the opinions of a few vocal trolls and fanboys/fangirls (poor fangirls always get lumped in with the fanboys. its an insult to their sex) all i care about is subbing for a game i enjoy. so let the war of word go on, it doesn't concern me.

 

P.S. i see no reason for me to unsub from swtor any time soon

[Samborino]

You are making a false claim, proceeding from a false premise, then asking a loaded question based on that fabricated statement.

 

This is a game in which one CAN solo through the levels while also involving themselves in group play. It is what players have been complaining about since EQ. It was the single largest complaint in EQ.

 

Mandatory group play and painful leveling are a thing of the past. If you chose not to participate in group play, that is your choice. It is not a game defect. In fact, it does not even exist.

 

I honestly think this game promotes group play (for leveling in zones/planets) far more than wow ever did. Group quests where very few and far between in wow. In this game each planet has alot of heroic quests and people actually want to do them for the most part. I usually dont have trouble finding groups for them, and if i do i just move on. They are alot of fun and some of them are even quite challenging.

 

The one thing is , i wish more people did bonus series because i find that bonus series quest hubs usualy have a huge number of heroics and say for nar shadaa bonus series where you have to go back there at level 31-33 , i think most people dont even know about it, same goes for alderaan bonus series (41-44) most people wouldnt even think that they could go back and level on a previous planet as an alternative to just going to the next planet. Bonus series are what give you choice on where you want to level in this game (just like how wow sometimes had multiple zones in the same level bracket)

[grandmthethird]

I honestly think this game promotes group play (for leveling in zones/planets) far more than wow ever did. Group quests where very few and far between in wow. In this game each planet has alot of heroic quests and people actually want to do them for the most part. I usually dont have trouble finding groups for them, and if i do i just move on. They are alot of fun and some of them are even quite challenging.

 

The one thing is , i wish more people did bonus series because i find that bonus series quest hubs usualy have a huge number of heroics and say for nar shadaa bonus series where you have to go back there at level 31-33 , i think most people dont even know about it, same goes for alderaan bonus series (41-44) most people wouldnt even think that they could go back and level on a previous planet as an alternative to just going to the next planet. Bonus series are what give you choice on where you want to level in this game (just like how wow sometimes had multiple zones in the same level bracket)

 

a bit off topic, but to pick up on what you just said. i finished 2 story's SW and BH, and in both i did nar shadaa bonus series, but on both i didn't do the alderaan bonus, because i wasn't sure what level it was at and i got fed up of looking every time i leveled up. but i will look again on my 3rd toon.

 

back on topic. about paying subs and this being a single player game. i have said this in other threads and i'll say it again. so far i have paid for 3 months (i think) at 15dollar a month, and i have seen 5 console games that i would love to play. however i did'nt' buy them because swtor sucks up all my free time. so multi player or single player either way personally i have saved loads by playing swtor this year

 

P.S. the last MMO i subbed to never stopped me buying other games, i need my story fix, mix the story with the ability of grouping and you got a great formula imo

Edited March 25, 2012 by grandmthethird

[Lethality]

If that were the case the ToR wouldn't be released for another few years. It needs to be released and then evolve. You WoW kiddies are so spoiled by Blizzard that you probably should still be over their playing their game.

 

Spoiled by quality, absolutely.

 

Still playing, absolutely.

[Lethality]

They are in the same market but define competing, they might want to be number one but on there own merits, they arnt going to copy paste stuff into the game just like wow did to 'compete'.

 

And so what if the ceo said they want it to be number one, of course they do because they want the acclaim and the money that comes from it. how does that in anyway conform to it must have exactly the things that wow has to be competative. seriously how. And if they have 1.7 mil subs still as has been stated from a western market i would say they are competing just fine.

 

and if you have no idea what in house means in realtion to 3rd party then i have lost all belief that you have any idea what your talking about, in house means that its created by employes of the company aka the development team for the game and not relied on a 3rd party, someone creating addons to implement content for there game that the 3rd party has to keep upto date around the games updates but instead with it being in house and part of the core design of the game gets updated automatically by bioware.

 

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/i/in-house.asp#axzz1q67bNh9x

Blizzard does all of their development in-house.

[Lethality]

But tell me why this is so?

 

If you want something new, or claim you do, you want something that is different and not the same old clone.

 

 

This is a Star Wars game that takes place well before the Clone Wars and is not called Clone WoW, but SWTOR, you know, Star Wars: The Old Republic.

 

This game is new, and it is still in the process of learning and growing, and hopefully, not in the way you claim that it must, to compete with the tired old rut.

 

It's competing for largely the same customer base... with obvious vertical tangents. Not only that, I'd agree with you if TOR's end game and PvP weren't 1:1 copies of WoW, but they are... so... yea.

[Lethality]

The problem is.....

 

Wow of today is boring to me. I don't care about my character I don't care about what drops and I certainly don't care about the next lame *** pop culture reference. it amazes me that all folks can do is praise WoW but they are never out playing it just hanging out on the competitions boards telling everyone how great it is.

 

And that is completley valid, and totally cool! I have no problem with folks that are tired of WoW.

 

But what I do have an issue with in threads like these is the excuses made that make it seem like it doesn't have to "compete" in the same breath as "but WoW had 7 years of development".

[Rayla_Felana]

Personally, never liked anything in WoW.

 

I love SWTOR, simple.

[Duhakalock]

How about WoW is boring as hell. At least Swtor is new, new feel, new graphics, fresh content.

 

I heard death wing was the last content, what was that 4 months ago? And the expansion is still in beta AND their new model for wow is to target young teens (Pokemon, pandas)

 

Screw wow, once great game is now crap.

[Lethality]

How about WoW is boring as hell. At least Swtor is new, new feel, new graphics, fresh content.

 

I heard death wing was the last content, what was that 4 months ago? And the expansion is still in beta AND their new model for wow is to target young teens (Pokemon, pandas)

 

Screw wow, once great game is now crap.

 

It's actually better than ever... but you're probably not going to be able to get that.

[Offended]

It's actually better than ever... but you're probably not going to be able to get that.

 

You know what i love, I bet the guy you quoted, back in teh day was all like "Man it'd be awesome if our non-combat pets could fight each other. My Peanut would kick your Baby Blizzard Bears butt!"

 

Now that they actually do it, he's all like "OMG TEENAGER GAME ROFFLE POKEMON PANDA WORLD LOLOLOLOL"

[farfulnugen]

People are saying WoW is boring and that's valid. It took me quite a few years to get bored of WoW though. It took me less than 2 months to get bored of SWTOR. Not saying this is how everyone feels but I'm pretty sure most people leaving feels the same way. A game that gets boring after 2 months says a lot about the state of the game --- it is a wow clone with lightsabers instead of swords.

 

And SWTOR is definitely competing against WoW of today, not when it first came out. It needed something unique and it didn't deliver.

 

On a positive note, we got guild banks coming in the next patch. That'll keep people around for a good year or so.

[Ishko]

Most of those "modern" features of WoW are the reasons it's bleeding subscribers and has one of the worst reputations among gamers for any existing MMO.

 

Copying current WoW is not a formula for success for any new game. WoW's peak subscriber numbers were reached with the gameplay of late Burning Crusade / early Wrath, and there's a lesson there. If there's something to be learned from current WoW it's where they went wrong.

 

To think in the era of social networks and social gaming you can throw people into a group with random people they don't even know with no possibility of them interacting afterwards and calling that "modern" is absurd.

 

There is a need for a simple in-server LFG tool to be sure, or even a few server mergers but there is no need for WoW's soulless dungeon grinds for countless tokens with people you'll never get to know who hate your guts for having to be there in the first place.

 

Pop didn't peak late BC, it peaked late wrath. I went it's highest durring wrath because it was so casual friendly with it's new features. It went down a bit durring cata because two waves of content was geared towards the skilled, and all the unskilled majority hated it, constantly complaining on the forums that heroics no longer take 20 minutes and often go well past the hour mark. Saying, "the new features ruined the game" is just idiotic.

 

Also, going down in 2 million doesn't mean the game is over. Most of them were from china (who pay like 1/3 of what an american pays) and went on to free to play MMO's (because wow is extremely expensive in their economy, even at their lower rate). They didn't go to rift or ToR because those weren't even avalible in china.

 

Yeah they lost alot of the states and Europe, but not nearly as many as china. And those people mostly just left because the content was no longer casual friendly. They are going back to casual friendlly content next expansion, and loads of people always come back durring expansion launches for their 30 day free scroll of resurrection just to see whats up. You have to remember, Burning crusade broke world records for fastest selling video game, then that record was broken by LK, and that record was broken by Cata (over 4 million in 2 days).

 

Saying, "wow is dead/dying" because of a small and probably temporary lose is just dumb. Saying they lost it because of all the new features is also dumb. The new features are what helped WoW reach it's hieght IN WRATH (not BC). Not putting them in is only going to hurt ToR in the short and long of things.

[Duhakalock]

It's actually better than ever... but you're probably not going to be able to get that.

 

God almighty, I know your opinion is the right one

 

end that ego attitude of yours. So In my opinion, it sucks.

And to the person under you, No, I never once asked for pets to battle. Thanks very much.

 

I played wow for 6 years, tbc was the pinnacle of perfection as far as trash talking epeen fun-ness goes. I was a top rated arena player when I was 4 years younger. The direction that game went a complete 180'.

 

So thanks for those crap attacks. Shows your immaturity.

[DigitalPrime]

To be honest I don't understand their reluctance to introduce cross server LFG.

SWTOR community was stillborn, it was never alive and is never going to get better than it is now.

If they don't introduce LFG tool soon, community will still be dead, but they'll just piss more people off.

 

Deluded WoW players lol. MMOs have been around many years without instant gratification LFG tools. There is a tool in TOR at the moment, it works fine, yeh it can be optimised. but hopfully it wont be like WoWs. If you think TOR is having issues with subs, Your deluded, you vocal miority who spend all your days on here ************ because its not wow are a small minority. Everyone else is playing the game. And trying to say TOR is lacking subs due to not having WoWs LFG tool.... LOLOL

Edited March 25, 2012 by DigitalPrime

[terminova]

People are saying WoW is boring and that's valid. It took me quite a few years to get bored of WoW though. It took me less than 2 months to get bored of SWTOR.

 

Yes, it's valid, but they also forget that there is no way a new game can have the same amount of content a game that's been out for seven years has: it's just not possible. WoW simply has years and years and years of content for players to run through because WoW has three expansions worth of content plus the original game content. Of course you won't run out of stuff to do.

 

And SWTOR is definitely competing against WoW of today, not when it first came out. It needed something unique and it didn't deliver.

 

No, it did deliver, it just didn't have 7 years of expansion content available at release to keep players occupied for a really long time.

[Ishko]

How about WoW is boring as hell. At least Swtor is new, new feel, new graphics, fresh content.

 

I heard death wing was the last content, what was that 4 months ago? And the expansion is still in beta AND their new model for wow is to target young teens (Pokemon, pandas)

 

Screw wow, once great game is now crap.

 

Every reviewer I've read so far loves the game. Also this whole thing of, "beta is in alpha, it's only level 1-10" is BS. Already seeing 85-90 content so I have no clue where all this bull is comming from.

[Darth_Grissom]

I like swtor.

 

However, at the moment the wife and I are bored to death. We both have one level 50 character. We have no desire at the moment to level another character.

 

We have cleared regular EV. We have no interest in doing hard modes or nightmare mode raids. In wow we never did any hardmode stuff either. Patch 1.2 is bringing a lot of stuff to the table, however its still the same thing. At least in the new wow expansion besides the raid or die model we have pet battles and senarios and dungon challanges to do. In SWTOR we have none of that.

 

SSo yes, to be honest BW, the wife and I are seriously considering moving back to wow in the near future after patch 1.2 beause frankly, its going to give us more things to do end game then just raid. We dont pvp and never willl.

[Samaul]

I hate to beat a dead horse too much, but the obvious fight going in the MMO space right now is between WoW and SWTOR.

 

When SWTOR came out there was a vocal minority arguing that what SWTOR is now is better than WoW at release. They reasoned that SWTOR offers more to players than WoW did at release, their comparisons are often driven towards saying, "yeah - SWTOR did this wrong at release, but WoW did it worse when it was first released." The argument relies on the idea that developers cannot compete with 10 years of ongoing development, that features and content in WoW now was developed over 10 years.

 

This is of course all rubbish, and Blizzard seems to get that:

 

 

 

Whilst the criticism is certainly in keep with Blizzard "post-competitor release PR machine", he's damn right. He couldn't be more right if he tried. I do not PvE... at all... aside from raids I run with my guild. Why? Because finding a group is so very tiresome, especially considering that in most MMOs today the feature to find a group easily is center stage. A lack of Dunegon Finder is a big thing, a big omission, something that should be in 1.2. We're not getting it in 1.2, that's obvious, and we'll get it at some point in the future, but it's such a big thing that SWTOR is half a game for not having it.

 

That's a bit part however. 1.2 goes a long way to bringing SWTOR in line with modern MMOs, as opposed to being 10 steps behind them. Bioware obviously knows that they are competing with WoW now, not WoW at launch. 1.2 and 1.3 are likely to add in pretty much every major feature that WoW has on SWTOR, and we're likely to see more in the way of gameplay variety coming in the future.

 

I'm not suggesting that Bioware should be trying to emulate WoW. I am saying that Bioware should be looking at WoW and other MMOs and seeing uniform features - like dungeon finders - and saying "yeah, that's something we should have had at launch, and something we should get into the game asap." And it was foolish of Bioware to release the game in the state it was in. Whilst it's certainly an accomplishment to have made SWTOR, it's also a testimony to the failures of the team. I'm hopeful - as are many others - that they've come to realise their folly.

 

How Blizzard gets it: Pandas:rolleyes:

[Offended]

People are saying WoW is boring and that's valid. It took me quite a few years to get bored of WoW though. It took me less than 2 months to get bored of SWTOR. Not saying this is how everyone feels but I'm pretty sure most people leaving feels the same way. A game that gets boring after 2 months says a lot about the state of the game --- it is a wow clone with lightsabers instead of swords.

 

And SWTOR is definitely competing against WoW of today, not when it first came out. It needed something unique and it didn't deliver.

 

On a positive note, we got guild banks coming in the next patch. That'll keep people around for a good year or so.

 

It took YEARS to get bored of wow. I started playing day 1 and i still play it. the only reason its boring though, is because i work at times that are in conflict with most raiding schedules.

 

I didn't even make it past the 30 days, not making it to 50 on a single char, before i was so bored with tor that i was gouging my eyes out with sporks. I re-activated my account so i could try out the 1.2 changes. While they are impressive (the UI features, focus target frame FINALLY, combat is slightly better), the game is still incredibly boring because they brought nothing new or different to a MMO game. OMG VOICE OVERS one might say but really i don't care about voice overs. I listened to the sorc story up to lvl 47 and it is terrible. The sorc story is extremely tired and boring.

 

The most important thing that long lived MMO's such as WoW, Everquest and FF11 did right is that they didn't focus on a personal story. They gave the world life and the monsters you fought had lore that made you feel that you wanted to go out and kill them. Take Arthas for example. Star Wars isn't going to be able to capture the "hatred" that Arthas was able to have, or Illidan, or Kel'Thuzzad or many of the other warcraft characters.

 

What's Karagga the Unyielding's story? Why are you going in to Karagga's place to fight him. Is there a quest chain that drives you in to karagga's place like how there would be an open world quest in wow that would push you in to black rock mountain, then in to LBRS/UBRS or BRD then in to Molten Core?

 

Blizzard got lost in their story telling with cataclysm and made things railed to much. Mists is supposed to get rid of that mistake and now with completely new characters, we're going to be involved in the story like it was back in Warcraft 2/3 and at the start of WoW.

 

 

Bioware fans claim they are the story telling masters, but they only tell how the world effects the person. It's a far better story to tell, of how a single person effects the world.

[DigitalPrime]

I like swtor.

 

However, at the moment the wife and I are bored to death. We both have one level 50 character. We have no desire at the moment to level another character.

 

We have cleared regular EV. We have no interest in doing hard modes or nightmare mode raids. In wow we never did any hardmode stuff either. Patch 1.2 is bringing a lot of stuff to the table, however its still the same thing. At least in the new wow expansion besides the raid or die model we have pet battles and senarios and dungon challanges to do. In SWTOR we have none of that.

 

SSo yes, to be honest BW, the wife and I are seriously considering moving back to wow in the near future after patch 1.2 beause frankly, its going to give us more things to do end game then just raid. We dont pvp and never willl.

 

You should of known that a 7+ year game will have more end game content then a new launching MMO.

[Offended]

MMOs have been around many years without instant gratification LFG tools. There is a tool in TOR at the moment, it works fine, yeh it can be optimised. but hopfully it wont be like WoWs.

 

Those "other" mmo's turned in to extremely tight knit groups of 5-10 friends that devoted themselves to said MMO. FF11 uses the link Shell thing to build community and to force groups.

 

In terms of Star Wars LFG tool, Warcraft had something almost exactly like this first, except it was an addon (Call to Arms). Warcraft took the CtA mod and integrated it in to the UI, but it was a flop because getting people to use it was a challenge. The addon was easy because if you installed the addon, it was pretty obvious you wanted to use it.

 

http://www.wowwiki.com/How_to_use_the_LFG/LFM_interface

 

The original LFG system from wow, that was born from CtA, took many revisions before they developed the existing dungeon finder tool (Cross realm, which was added in 3.3 with ICC and Arthas).

 

The thing is, is that blizzard took examples from all other MMo's, past and present, and used them as an example of what to and what not to do. Combined with feedback from the player base, they developed the current cross realm LFD and LFR tools.

 

The problem is that Bioware refused to ignore years of research by blizzard and the community and create a "system" that is barely better than what Warcraft had at launch.

At the launch of the game, there was only the LookingForGroup chat channel. This channel was available in all zones, but it was not a linked global channel. This was problematic since zones of the same level range are spread out throughout Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor. At this time, many players relied on their guild, friend's list, or even whisper to find groups. Otherwise, they would travel to Orgrimmar or Ironforge respectively, find a group, then travel back out to the site of the dungeon, making dungeons far away from these cities very unpopular.

 

end of 2011 game using end of 2004 and earlier design.

[Darth_Grissom]

You should of known that a 7+ year game will have more end game content then a new launching MMO.

 

Thats not the point though.

 

We havnt done the other raid because the game is totally boring. My guild feels the same way. Other then raiding there is NOTHING to do. Dailys suck and always will, hence why I never did them in wow or any other game including this one. I dont pvp and never will as I play BF3 for my pvp experience as it doesnt rely on gear.

 

My advise for BW is to add in more things for us to do at end game OTHER then raiding and or PVPing. This is what killed wow for me and the very reason why I quit it before. However seeing the new things its adding, its making the game way better again. The raid or die model is an old model that I personally believe needs to be retired.

 

Keep raids and dungons and pvp but give us a lot of other time sinks we can do. The game that gives us a theme park game with raids and such and combines that with player housing llike building your house from scratch, and having businesses like real estate agents and house decorators in the game will win over anything that comes out.

 

Because not only will raids and pvp still be there, but others such as myself will be able to do actual fun jobs for the whole server. Ultima Online how I miss you.

Edited March 25, 2012 by Darth_Grissom

[Duhakalock]

It took YEARS to get bored of wow. I started playing day 1 and i still play it. the only reason its boring though, is because i work at times that are in conflict with most raiding schedules.

 

I didn't even make it past the 30 days, not making it to 50 on a single char, before i was so bored with tor that i was gouging my eyes out with sporks. I re-activated my account so i could try out the 1.2 changes. While they are impressive (the UI features, focus target frame FINALLY, combat is slightly better), the game is still incredibly boring because they brought nothing new or different to a MMO game. OMG VOICE OVERS one might say but really i don't care about voice overs. I listened to the sorc story up to lvl 47 and it is terrible. The sorc story is extremely tired and boring.

 

The most important thing that long lived MMO's such as WoW, Everquest and FF11 did right is that they didn't focus on a personal story. They gave the world life and the monsters you fought had lore that made you feel that you wanted to go out and kill them. Take Arthas for example. Star Wars isn't going to be able to capture the "hatred" that Arthas was able to have, or Illidan, or Kel'Thuzzad or many of the other warcraft characters.

 

What's Karagga the Unyielding's story? Why are you going in to Karagga's place to fight him. Is there a quest chain that drives you in to karagga's place like how there would be an open world quest in wow that would push you in to black rock mountain, then in to LBRS/UBRS or BRD then in to Molten Core?

 

Blizzard got lost in their story telling with cataclysm and made things railed to much. Mists is supposed to get rid of that mistake and now with completely new characters, we're going to be involved in the story like it was back in Warcraft 2/3 and at the start of WoW.

 

 

Bioware fans claim they are Xthe story telling masters, but they only tell how the world effects the person. It's a far better story to tell, of how a single person effects the world.

 

 

I'm going to call bs on your whole post,

Personal story is freaking great. And I think I speak for most, DID NOT GIVE A SHT about killing any mob in wow, the only reason we did was for better loot, that's it. If we wanted to know story in wow we had to wowwiki it

[Darth_Grissom]

I'm going to call bs on your whole post,

Personal story is freaking great. And I think I speak for most, DID NOT GIVE A SHT about killing any mob in wow, the only reason we did was for better loot, that's it. If we wanted to know story in wow we had to wowwiki it

 

In ultima online my story was made by ME. My character had his own story and his adventures were writen down in ingame books for all to read. I wronte them.

 

That is how mmorpgs should be. Us players should be the creators of our characters storys. We should BE our toons when we log in but thats not how it is these days.