"Power" is too good a stat

[Dee-Jay]

"Stack Power" is the basic gist of almost every class guide when it comes to optimizing gear.

 

Power, as far as I know, is the best secondary stat for every (DPS) spec in game.

 

There's really no contest or choice involved at the moment, especially since the Surge nerf.

 

In fact, stacking Surge to 75% and maximizing Power are probably the only two "rules" DPS classes need to consider when making choices.

 

You take as much Crit as you can, and Accuracy is nice to have but they don't compete with Power in any way.

 

 

I think Bioware really has to reconsider how they balance their secondary stats or gear-decision will be too straight forward.

 

1. Power needs to be brought more in-line with the other secondary stats.

 

2. Diminishing Returns need to exist, but to a much lesser extreme than currently. Surge is an example of a stat that is really easy to get to ~75%, but DR make it almost nonviable to go beyond that mark.

 

3. Accuracy needs to be made more desirable while still making for an interesting choice.

 

 

Once Combat Parses can be analyzed we can probably go into more detail about each individual stat. But for the long-term health of the game it will be necessary to re-balance some of the current stat mechanics.

[Gokkus]

Although I havent experienced it first hand, you could very well be right if I look at the stats of my top guildies.

 

There are some skills that activate when you crit though. Like with the consular weaken mind in combination with the middle skill tree. Maybe for those builds crit would still be more useful.

[Dee-Jay]

Although I havent experienced it first hand, you could very well be right if I look at the stats of my top guildies.

 

There are some skills that activate when you crit though. Like with the consular weaken mind in combination with the middle skill tree. Maybe for those builds crit would still be more useful.

 

Unlikely since Crit is subject ti harsh DR beyond ~33% and even the proccs hit harder with more Power.

 

Essentially the Power of "Power" is too damn high.

[Valkirus]

What is the issue? If it is a great stat for every dps spec, I fail to see why it would be a problem.

If however it was a stat which one type of class could stack easiliy, giving them a advantage over other dps specs...then it would be a problem.

[JorrdKarrd]

What is the issue? If it is a great stat for every dps spec, I fail to see why it would be a problem.

If however it was a stat which one type of class could stack easiliy, giving them a advantage over other dps specs...then it would be a problem.

 

It's an issue because it has no diminishing returns, which means everyone will want to stack only Power to maximize their dps. It's broken when only one type of stat is competitive.

[Valkirus]

It's an issue because it has no diminishing returns, which means everyone will want to stack only Power to maximize their dps. It's broken when only one type of stat is competitive.

 

Ok..then lets say they narrowed it down to 3 stats being the ones to stack...with the moddable gear, are we not going to eventually end up with the same situation? Players will simply stack for those 3 stats. Even now tho, you saying you can ignore Willpower for a Jedi Sage for example? Alltogether? Or you refering to the gems with thier stats? Power versus Crit?

Edited March 24, 2012 by Valkirus

[Gunarson]

Is it the same for a marauder? Because I was stacking critical, thinking it would be the best stat for DPS on that character. Talking about a pve setup btw.

 

I mean I gave Power a lower priority than Critical on gear, but apparently it's better to have higher numbers in Power.

Edited March 24, 2012 by Gunarson

[Kaphik]

It's an issue because it has no diminishing returns, which means everyone will want to stack only Power to maximize their dps. It's broken when only one type of stat is competitive.

 

Anyone stacking only one stat without reaching optimal numbers on their other stats such as crit, accuracy, surge, alacrity, etc. depending on their AC and spec is just stupid.

[Melacon]

Sweet, now they will undoubtedly just nerf power....they aren't good at adjusting...just nerfing

[Bigdaddyjug]

Ok..then lets say they narrowed it down to 3 stats being the ones to stack...with the moddable gear, are we not going to eventually end up with the same situation? Players will simply stack for those 3 stats. Even now tho, you saying you can ignore Willpower for a Jedi Sage for example? Alltogether? Or you refering to the gems with thier stats? Power versus Crit?

 

He did say secondary stat. Seeing as Willpower is a primary stat, it doesn't apply. Not that's possible to stack Aim, Cunning, Willpower, or Strength in any appreciable fashion.

 

I can sort of see the problem the OP is talking about. It's not that it's actually a problem, it's just that it's boring. When there are no gearing decisions to make, it's less engaging to get new pieces of gear. Since we don't have a true combat log, we may be grossly over-estimating Power's worth, but it doesn't seem likely.

 

The main problem I have with Power is that it's better than your primary damage stat. If there was a way for a Marauder to replace all of his Strength with Power, he could do it and see a DPS increase. That just doesn't seem right.

[Kiyoma]

People only start stacking power once they have the right numbers for main stats, crit, surge, and expertise if you're a pvper (and that expertise number varies a lot depending on preference)

 

if you're stacking power right out of the gate you're not optimizing. but yeah, they might need to change the dr formulas to hurt power a little more and hurt others a little less.

[TheSwamper]

It's an issue because it has no diminishing returns, which means everyone will want to stack only Power to maximize their dps. It's broken when only one type of stat is competitive.

 

So why not remove or lessen the DR on the other powers instead of yet another nerf?

[Rainsfords]

Like someone posted, you cannot ignore crit. Gear maxing requires you to put t2 agent/warrior glove enhancements into all your slots, and just stacking power means that all your extra surge goes to waste. 2-3 pieces of crit and 2-3 pieces of power are optimal, depending on the stat budgeting of your t3 accessories/weapons.

 

Alacrity and Accuracy are essentially useless, though. This is made even more obvious by the changes coming to T3 gear, where most pieces are losing Accuracy and Alacrity for Surge.

[Dayshadow]

"Stack Power" is the basic gist of almost every class guide when it comes to optimizing gear.

 

Power, as far as I know, is the best secondary stat for every (DPS) spec in game.

 

There's really no contest or choice involved at the moment, especially since the Surge nerf.

 

In fact, stacking Surge to 75% and maximizing Power are probably the only two "rules" DPS classes need to consider when making choices.

 

You take as much Crit as you can, and Accuracy is nice to have but they don't compete with Power in any way.

 

 

I think Bioware really has to reconsider how they balance their secondary stats or gear-decision will be too straight forward.

 

1. Power needs to be brought more in-line with the other secondary stats.

 

2. Diminishing Returns need to exist, but to a much lesser extreme than currently. Surge is an example of a stat that is really easy to get to ~75%, but DR make it almost nonviable to go beyond that mark.

 

3. Accuracy needs to be made more desirable while still making for an interesting choice.

 

 

Once Combat Parses can be analyzed we can probably go into more detail about each individual stat. But for the long-term health of the game it will be necessary to re-balance some of the current stat mechanics.

 

Have you ever taken the time to compare the before and after when adding power? Isn't it something like 1 extra damage every 5 power?

[Badlander]

Is there anything you nerf callers will not whine about? It just makes me sick how bad the nerf callers are in this game.

[FrostyDroid]

So why not remove or lessen the DR on the other powers instead of yet another nerf?

 

Years of MMO development have proved that DR is important. In order to balance a game, you need to have some idea about what the maximum values players will have in each stat, otherwise you can be sure someone will just keep on stacking it until something breaks. Now, you could just have linear progression up to some hard cap, but having DR with a soft cap gives players a greater sense of control.

[Xyleya]

There's no reason why Power should'Ve any diminishing returns or be nerfed. It's the only stat we can play around with as all others are restricted anyways and it makes no sense to stack crit/surge/accuracy beyond a certain point.

 

Look at the gear (mods/enhancements) and then look what you can actually do. It's not tht much anyways.

 

You stack accuracy until 98-100% (Sniper, Marauder, Merc), then Crit until 30% and Surge until 75%. The rest goes into power, as it's the only stat that will result in better performance after you've got the aformentioned stats.

 

I don't see anything wrong with that actually, and you need to switch 60% of the mods and enhancements in Tion/Colum/Rakata gear allready to get the stats right.

 

If they up the soft-cap of crit and surge, then we would have more options, but until then there's nothing to do about it.

[Tsillah]

There's no reason why Power should'Ve any diminishing returns or be nerfed. It's the only stat we can play around with as all others are restricted anyways and it makes no sense to stack crit/surge/accuracy beyond a certain point.

 

Look at the gear (mods/enhancements) and then look what you can actually do. It's not tht much anyways.

 

You stack accuracy until 98-100% (Sniper, Marauder, Merc), then Crit until 30% and Surge until 75%. The rest goes into power, as it's the only stat that will result in better performance after you've got the aformentioned stats.

 

I don't see anything wrong with that actually, and you need to switch 60% of the mods and enhancements in Tion/Colum/Rakata gear allready to get the stats right.

 

If they up the soft-cap of crit and surge, then we would have more options, but until then there's nothing to do about it.

 

Since anyone can stack power, it's not a balance issue between classes. It his however a balance issue between secondary stats. It's not game breaking, but it makes that everybody will do it and that just means there's less diversity and certain mods will become useless.

 

As someone once said: variety is the spice of life .....and I'd say that applies to MMOs just as much.

[TheSwamper]

Years of MMO development have proved that DR is important. In order to balance a game, you need to have some idea about what the maximum values players will have in each stat, otherwise you can be sure someone will just keep on stacking it until something breaks. Now, you could just have linear progression up to some hard cap, but having DR with a soft cap gives players a greater sense of control.

 

Yes, but the numbers that stack up aren't pulled out of the ether. The devs have full control over what those numbers are. So, a clever programmer could simply add all the maximum possible numbers for any stat, note that as the 'cap' (without coding a cap) and build monster stats accordingly.

 

It also makes for more straightforward coding, as you have simpler routines that don't have to have things like 'calculate this way, unless this limit is surpassed, in which case calculate it this other way', etc.

 

This way, players don't have to figure out often-veiled info like soft caps or hard caps or at what point diminishing returns kick in. The player then knows that more always equals more. A much better approach IMO.

[Xyleya]

Since anyone can stack power, it's not a balance issue between classes. It his however a balance issue between secondary stats. It's not game breaking, but it makes that everybody will do it and that just means there's less diversity and certain mods will become useless.

 

As someone once said: variety is the spice of life .....and I'd say that applies to MMOs just as much.

 

MMOs are all about min-maxing your stats in endgame, especially in themeparks like SWTOR.

 

Diversity is a lie.

[Tsillah]

MMOs are all about min-maxing your stats in endgame, especially in themeparks like SWTOR.

 

Diversity is a lie.

 

Diversity is not a lie unless you make it so.

 

If alacrity was as useful as power, you have an equal choice. If power is simply better than alacrity the choice is lessened because people will tend to want the best stats.

 

So diversity exists when choices have equal output. The diversity then doesn't exist so much in the end result but it does allowe diversity in how it is delivered, which affects your gameplay.

[Captain_Zone]

"Stack Power" is the basic gist of almost every class guide when it comes to optimizing gear.

 

Power, as far as I know, is the best secondary stat for every (DPS) spec in game.

 

There's really no contest or choice involved at the moment, especially since the Surge nerf.

 

In fact, stacking Surge to 75% and maximizing Power are probably the only two "rules" DPS classes need to consider when making choices.

 

You take as much Crit as you can, and Accuracy is nice to have but they don't compete with Power in any way.

 

 

I think Bioware really has to reconsider how they balance their secondary stats or gear-decision will be too straight forward.

 

1. Power needs to be brought more in-line with the other secondary stats.

 

2. Diminishing Returns need to exist, but to a much lesser extreme than currently. Surge is an example of a stat that is really easy to get to ~75%, but DR make it almost nonviable to go beyond that mark.

 

3. Accuracy needs to be made more desirable while still making for an interesting choice.

 

 

Once Combat Parses can be analyzed we can probably go into more detail about each individual stat. But for the long-term health of the game it will be necessary to re-balance some of the current stat mechanics.

 

Another post calling for a nerf? How about "bring the other secondary abilities UP to match Power"? Ever think of that? Huh? Seriously, if people keep begging for nerfs for any reason (probably mostly due to getting pwned in PvP), this game is going to be unplayable after a while. BioWare still hasn't brought a lot of PvE bosses in line with player nerfs. The balance is bad enough as it is. Please let them fix those bosses before nerfing anything else.

[FourTwent]

"Stack Power" is the basic gist of almost every class guide when it comes to optimizing gear.

 

Power, as far as I know, is the best secondary stat for every (DPS) spec in game.

 

There's really no contest or choice involved at the moment, especially since the Surge nerf.

 

In fact, stacking Surge to 75% and maximizing Power are probably the only two "rules" DPS classes need to consider when making choices.

 

You take as much Crit as you can, and Accuracy is nice to have but they don't compete with Power in any way.

 

 

I think Bioware really has to reconsider how they balance their secondary stats or gear-decision will be too straight forward.

 

1. Power needs to be brought more in-line with the other secondary stats.

 

2. Diminishing Returns need to exist, but to a much lesser extreme than currently. Surge is an example of a stat that is really easy to get to ~75%, but DR make it almost nonviable to go beyond that mark.

 

3. Accuracy needs to be made more desirable while still making for an interesting choice.

 

 

Once Combat Parses can be analyzed we can probably go into more detail about each individual stat. But for the long-term health of the game it will be necessary to re-balance some of the current stat mechanics.

 

Your thread title is that Power is too good. . .and then you say that everyone only stacks power as their gear optimization guidelines.

 

Yet. . .then you go on to talk about Surge and Crit.

 

There's 3 rules to the secondary DPS stats, in order of priority IMO. . .

 

1 - Surge - get this to 75ish(I think this used to be 80ish before the nerf, but think it's down to 75 post-nerf, although i really dont have any first-hand confirmations on this)

2 - Crit - get this to 35ish

3 - Stack Power(mainly from relic/adrenals but if you have high enough lvl gear, you can start slotting power in gear as well).

 

and btw I dont think this is terrible. it's outside rules that have been accepted as the most optimized(so far). And I feel with the lack of complexity with the other 'main' stats(like aim). . .I like it

Edited March 24, 2012 by FourTwent

[Dee-Jay]

Another post calling for a nerf? How about "bring the other secondary abilities UP to match Power"? Ever think of that? Huh? Seriously, if people keep begging for nerfs for any reason (probably mostly due to getting pwned in PvP), this game is going to be unplayable after a while. BioWare still hasn't brought a lot of PvE bosses in line with player nerfs. The balance is bad enough as it is. Please let them fix those bosses before nerfing anything else.

 

Wow...the stupidity of this post is mind-boggling. It's just....wow...I'm impressed in a way.

 

 

 

As for the actual problem, it's about a lack of choice.

 

Sure, there might always be a "right" choice depending on class, spec, role etc, but currently that "right" choice is always "Power" with very few ifs and buts. It kind of undermines all of the theorycrafting and gearing-meta-game that motivates people to spend so much time in game.

 

And with the next tier of content underway, the problem will intensify.

 

75% Surge, ~33% Crit and 100% Accuracy are already obtainable.

 

So where is gear going to go from here? Will the difference between Tier 3 and Tier 4 gear only be 300 Power? Seems kind of boring.

Edited March 24, 2012 by Dee-Jay

[Captain_Zone]

Wow...the stupidity of this post is mind-boggling. It's just....wow...I'm impressed in a way.

 

 

 

As for the actual problem, it's about a lack of choice.

 

Sure, there might always be a "right" choice depending on class, spec, role etc, but currently that "right" choice is always "Power" with very few ifs and buts. It kind of undermines all of the theorycrafting and gearing-meta-game that motivates people to spend so much time in game.

 

And with the next tier of content underway, the problem will intensify.

 

75% Surge, ~33% Crit and 100% Accuracy are already obtainable.

 

So where is gear going to go from here? Will the difference between Tier 3 and Tier 4 gear only be 300 Power? Seems kind of boring.

 

Well, that's your opinion. Imo, begging for nerfs is even more stupid, bro.