Ravenolf Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Shadows are so OP that the thread to nerf them should be made a sticky. Please Sticky this thread. lol awesome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redmarx Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 /sticky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathelia Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 /sticky you're one of the baddies. feel sorry for you and asphen. as you have stated before you compare assassins with operatives ... lost your credibility. it's like im gonna compare your healing tree with my tanking tree. operatives (wow rogues) ,assassins ( enhancement shamans) . cant compare those two... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gofortheko Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Sins/shadows will be the next FOTM class, the hybrid that is. Also I have seen two sins one hybrid one dps, who was guarded, destroy a 4 person team alone, because the tank could heal himself and the dps combined was absurd, not to mention the CC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redmarx Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 you're one of the baddies. feel sorry for you and asphen. as you have stated before you compare assassins with operatives ... lost your credibility. it's like im gonna compare your healing tree with my tanking tree. operatives (wow rogues) ,assassins ( enhancement shamans) . cant compare those two... You're saying enhancement shamans have stealth? Oh wait, perhaps you're saying stealth should be a talent in the top tier of the deception tree? Stealth classes are stealth classes. As it is, the comparison would be between rogues and feral druids, assassins being feral druids (quite obviously, especially in tanking spec). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toshman Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 85 pages. luv it. fyi, i am actually ok with a nerf to tank DPS tree and i see what everyone is saying. the reason for our skills such as deflect and shroud is to help our crappy mitigation. imo change the tank tree help us in the dps tree. help us in both madness and decpeption. i am particularly more fond of deception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferkles Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Hybrid builds do dish out a ton of damage, but they're still very squishy, and I don't have too much trouble DPSing them down as an infiltration shadow. Usually hit mid 3ks with shadow strike proc'd, force breach usually does 4k+. Not even full champ geared still. Infiltration shadows do very good burst dps, but only when we have Force potency, adrenals and relics off cooldown, and we have our exit strategy procs, our circling shadows and our CS procs up, and our shadow strike proc'd. In general, after I've gotten a few decent bursts off, I tend to get focused down very quickly for the rest of the match before I get my procs up decently. Balance shadows melt face. So much face. Oh my lord the face melting. But it was really boring, and I struggled to kill adds anywhere near as quickly in PvE as I do as infiltration. And before you say, "PEE VEE PEE FORUMZ MEN, GET OUT WIT UR PEE VEE EE", I like to do both 'kay? But yes, in pvp, balance melts so much face. MORE DOTS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toshman Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Hybrid builds do dish out a ton of damage, but they're still very squishy, and I don't have too much trouble DPSing them down as an infiltration shadow. Usually hit mid 3ks with shadow strike proc'd, force breach usually does 4k+. Not even full champ geared still. Infiltration shadows do very good burst dps, but only when we have Force potency, adrenals and relics off cooldown, and we have our exit strategy procs, our circling shadows and our CS procs up, and our shadow strike proc'd. In general, after I've gotten a few decent bursts off, I tend to get focused down very quickly for the rest of the match before I get my procs up decently. Balance shadows melt face. So much face. Oh my lord the face melting. But it was really boring, and I struggled to kill adds anywhere near as quickly in PvE as I do as infiltration. And before you say, "PEE VEE PEE FORUMZ MEN, GET OUT WIT UR PEE VEE EE", I like to do both 'kay? But yes, in pvp, balance melts so much face. MORE DOTS! balance still can use some more work but people will cry nerf for this tree also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 How can any spec that uses Dark Charge be easy or even relatively easier to kill when 95% of the class's survivality comes from Dark Charge and Disjunction (11 point talent)? You could do something like 11/30/0 in Dark Charge, which would literally make no sense, and you'd be almost as hard to kill as 27/0/14 or 31/0/10. Yes your DPS will be extremely bad since the point allocation would make no sense, but you'd be almost as hard to kill as any Darkness primary specs. Dark Charge and Force Shroud is just a brick wall no DPS can bypass with any consistency. It even works against the class itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMKSED Posted March 31, 2012 Author Share Posted March 31, 2012 LMAO....a bunch of whiners calling for nerfs. I think some of you trolls have a rotation of classes you want to whine about. You've cried and whined about every other class in the game and now it's the Assassin/Shadows turn. Also, coming on the forums throwing around numbers like 90% of all ppl playing this class or I dominate everyone on my server. bah....you're just trolling. You've been playing against under-geared people for so long you now think you're god-like. Want to prove me wrong OP then post your server and character name in this thread. Once rated WZ are out for even a month, you can come back to the forums and show us how you actually do against equally geared players. As many people have said, this certain spec of Assassin/Shadow has slipped under the radar. Now that's all I ever see in warzones now. To say it's not even OP in the slightest is a lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fungihoujo Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Keep supporting BW metrics. Looks like the sweet spot is 300 pages on nerfing a class before BW uses the 'Wheel of Nerf!' to choose the appropriate abilities to nerf in the class and then apply it. We have a ways to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 (edited) The Tankasin is protected by the fact that an incredible number of people playing this spec somehow sucks at it. You can pile up 300-350K damage using Tracer Missile + HSM, but if you use the wrong attacks you can actually do below 200K, even though you should be able to come close to 300K using just Thrash on a lot of maps simply because you don't die and have much more opportunities to do damage. Also, the intangibles a Tankasin is a lot, but this usually comes at the expense of not being able to always get top DPS. If you get say 300/60/100 that apparently looks weaker than someone who just do 350K damage, even though the former is way better than the latter. Further, the Tankasin is extremely strong in all objective based scenarios, which means you might actually get bogged down with stuff like carrying the Huttball or defending the turret, which tend to be activities that won't lead to impressive numbers. In a 6-0 Huttball blowout your top DPS might do 150K and the Tankasin that scored 4 goals could have 120K. People look at that and say that didn't look too impressive but they don't realize the fact that you did so much damage while scoring 4 goals means you did a ton of damage in the time you weren't carrying the ball. Edited March 31, 2012 by Astarica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cycao Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 The Tankasin is protected by the fact that an incredible number of people playing this spec somehow sucks at it. You can pile up 300-350K damage using Tracer Missile + HSM, but if you use the wrong attacks you can actually do below 200K, even though you should be able to come close to 300K using just Thrash on a lot of maps simply because you don't die and have much more opportunities to do damage. Also, the intangibles a Tankasin is a lot, but this usually comes at the expense of not being able to always get top DPS. If you get say 300/60/100 that apparently looks weaker than someone who just do 350K damage, even though the former is way better than the latter. Further, the Tankasin is extremely strong in all objective based scenarios, which means you might actually get bogged down with stuff like carrying the Huttball or defending the turret, which tend to be activities that won't lead to impressive numbers. In a 6-0 Huttball blowout your top DPS might do 150K and the Tankasin that scored 4 goals could have 120K. People look at that and say that didn't look too impressive but they don't realize the fact that you did so much damage while scoring 4 goals means you did a ton of damage in the time you weren't carrying the ball. I'm going to take a stab at this. Yes I have seen a video of someone just using thrash in the 10-49 bracket and would like to see it in the 50's against a competent team. There are way more 'sins/shadows in the 10-49 bracket than in the 50's on my server, most are re rollers who suck at it, they can do ok damage but do not know how to utilize all the abilities. I know that a lot of players like using numbers in a warzone to drive home there point and trust me, when I play with a good PT or Mara they will beat me in dps every time, its not even close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticoccus Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Question here: How much health does an average level 50 max geared player have? Second question: DPS is based on how much damage *you* do per second, to one or more targets. How often do you take on a single target with no help from your team in objective based play? Especially since you are ALSO the best player class for doing pretty much all that, with stealth, speed boosts and procs up the ***. Third question: Why should DPS be used as a medium of skill in play between different classes, especially since we currently have no combat log. (outside of PTS anyway) Instead of focusing on "who made the highest numbers appear on screen" we should focus on "who did most to help the team win" Was it that marauder or you? Did that grav spammer hiding behind two other guys and sniping the lemming horde get you the win? Congratulations, he did better than you no matter if he had a lower DPS, because he held the objective. Same thing if you went stealth and ambushed a lone defender at one of the doors/turrets and managed to take it until your team got there, you may have a lower DPS/kill count but you won the team the match. DPS means very little in team based games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redmarx Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Keep supporting BW metrics. Looks like the sweet spot is 300 pages on nerfing a class before BW uses the 'Wheel of Nerf!' to choose the appropriate abilities to nerf in the class and then apply it. We have a ways to go. I thought it was 30k views. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thefishdude Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 (edited) As many people have said, this certain spec of Assassin/Shadow has slipped under the radar. Now that's all I ever see in warzones now. To say it's not even OP in the slightest is a lie. You avoided my question/challenge. Prove us all wrong about how good you are OP. Post your server and character name; so, we can actually see how you do in the rated WZ. It's simple, if you're as dominate as you propose, you'll have the facts to back it up. As for the suggestion that the tank assassin/shadow is one of the most OP classes in the game...that's just pure speculation on your part. Without combat logs or rated WZ, you have zero facts to back up that claim (showing a video of a geared tank fighting under geared ppl doesn't count). Edited March 31, 2012 by thefishdude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidopro Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 what spec are they going? I am planning to roll this FOTM class to try it out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMKSED Posted March 31, 2012 Author Share Posted March 31, 2012 You avoided my question/challenge. Prove us all wrong about how good you are OP. Post your server and character name; so, we can actually see how you do in the rated WZ. It's simple, if you're as dominate as you propose, you'll have the facts to back it up. As for the suggestion that the tank assassin/shadow is one of the most OP classes in the game...that's just pure speculation on your part. Without combat logs or rated WZ, you have zero facts to back up that claim (showing a video of a geared tank fighting under geared ppl doesn't count). Okay I'll do that right now....you know since rated WZs are already out and stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jo-Han Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 People whine about this spec being OP because they lose to it in duels. Those people are not very good. Mara can 1v1 tankasin right now, and mara is getting buffed to the gills. Mara is far superior for group play in multiples where assassins don't bring much to a team past the first one. What? Are you high? A marauder cannot 1v1 a shadow in equal gear and skill. The battle is so loopsided its silly. I play both classes and I actively seek out marauders with my shadow tank and try to avoid the shadows with my marauder. And the group buffs that a marauder are bringing is great, but shadow tank (as well as all other tanks) have guard, which is an extremely powerful ability used right. I would say they bring equally to the table when it comes to group utility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gennek Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Yeah, Assassins seem a little over the top imo. They don't seem to have any real weakness and almost every tool in the shed. But they need ages to reach 50... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenomen Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 But they need ages to reach 50... Yeah, skipping so many Pulls with Stealth isnt good enough, the Selfhealing needs to be buffed so they can solo H4 Mission as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halueryphi Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 I think juggernauts should get a self heal to be equal. sounds stupid right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMKSED Posted March 31, 2012 Author Share Posted March 31, 2012 I think juggernauts should get a self heal to be equal. sounds stupid right? Guardian Leap, 1-2k heal every 20 seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Froteus Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Guess I'm gonna bump this thread by posting: Lol this thing is still going. At this point I almost hope they do something so even afterwords all the baddies will still get rolled, then once they realize the sin never was Op, they'll move on to sentinels. Then another class. Bads will always be bad. And good players will still own them even with nerfs. Sorry but bioware doesn't agree with your assessment that sins are op. Just get over it already, you really come across as a sore losing whiner. In before trying to protect op status. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broganthomas Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 (edited) Guess I'm gonna bump this thread by posting: Lol this thing is still going. At this point I almost hope they do something so even afterwords all the baddies will still get rolled, then once they realize the sin never was Op, they'll move on to sentinels. Then another class. Bads will always be bad. And good players will still own them even with nerfs. Sorry but bioware doesn't agree with your assessment that sins are op. Just get over it already, you really come across as a sore losing whiner. In before trying to protect op status. Yep, but that's the community for you, I think they enjoy crying more than actually playing. I guess it gives them something to do. I like how some say there gonna go roll one which leads me believe they have no clue on what they're saying.. Hahah I'd rather quit then come here and cry about people kicking my butt, it's embarrassing to watch. Edited March 31, 2012 by broganthomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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