Warning -The gimme Moar crew has a new Approach

[Jrovak]

ohhh, bolster at 50

Thanks for bringing that to my attention so I Can cast my vote in favor it doing that.

 

And here is why:

 

PVP should be about SKILL, COMPETITION, and TEAMWORK.

 

all the kiddies want mad pvp lutez so they can faceroll anyone they come across. They (the kiddies) are not interested in skill, competition or teamwork they just wanna pwn n00bz and who off their gear so everyone knows how great they are.

 

its Not because PvP rhymes with Mtv that its the same concept go buy yourself an icecream

[FourTwent]

At that point it will be nerf this that and the other.

 

Umpteen years of MMO history and Bioware hasn't yet learned the Golden Rule of MMO's: your subs are dumb, don't listen to a word they say.

 

In fact, if I were a GM, I'd take it a step further and do the exact opposite of what they say.

 

Yet, some of these very people are the ones in the class forums complaining about nerfs, saying that if the devs dont listen to them, then they will ruin the game.

[Viscerus]

ohhh, bolster at 50

Thanks for bringing that to my attention so I Can cast my vote in favor it doing that.

 

And here is why:

 

PVP should be about SKILL, COMPETITION, and TEAMWORK.

 

all the kiddies want mad pvp lutez so they can faceroll anyone they come across. They (the kiddies) are not interested in skill, competition or teamwork they just wanna pwn n00bz and who off their gear so everyone knows how great they are.

 

EXCEPT that if you don't offer an incentive for PvP people won't do it!

 

No one wants to focus their time on PvP (I primarily PvP in most games, I ONLY PvP in this game) and see people who PvE gearing up and them getting nothing.

 

Gear progression = leveling.

 

I don't know why people can't get this. It is how you improve and work on your toon. It is a role-playing game. You progress.

 

Additionally, the Gear gap is not nearly as bad in this game as in others.

 

You can totally help your team and do ok as a fresh 50. You can hit 50 with a saved up bag and 1k/1k and get a few pieces of gear and start gaining stuff fast.

 

You cant trivialize the accomplishments of all your hardcore PvP players who have been working on their characters teh whole time.

[Morticoccus]

I'm the gimme cat; Feed me, then you can't see me.

[Xinika]

Maybe an iphone app that raids for them while it gathers their crew skill mats

 

I lol'd. Seriously, win.

[Xinika]

This sums up exactly how I feel about what Bioware are currently doing. I even had some scrub complain to me earlier, that it's not fair that people can group for normal (current) warzones and run premades against pugs, it's not fair on the casuals. If you don't want to get rolled by a premade, get some friends and group up.

 

Honestly, if Bioware keep heading down this road of just bending over backwards to accommodate lazy players who get their knickers in a twist because some people worked for gear and they didn't, then I'll be mashing that subscription cancel button straight away and I won't be coming back.

 

The thing that really get's my goat is that they use the line "Well you need gear to beat people, you don't have any skill, you don't want an equal footing" as the justification for getting free / easymode gear. Well guess what, you might have the gear handed to you, but you won't have the skill, because those players who ran warzone after warzone to get their valor rank, will still crush you. What are you going to complain about then?

 

Agreed entirely.

[AlriDSG]

I have never once qq'd about pvp in this game. I absolutely love pvp in this game and don't really have a problem with ranked gear being given to anyone who wants to earn it with the real rewards being mounts and such.... but bolstering past 50 would absolutely lose the pvp crowd of this game. The gear is easy to get. I can't believe people would support this idea. Just tell the have nots to grind out some gear. Do they really feel such a false sense of entitlement that they want to ding 50 and instantly stomp a team of warlords? Give me a break

 

Actually yes, most people would like to participate in a activity where they actually stand a fair chance at winning rather than losing from the start because they didn't put as much time as someone else put into the game.

 

Also on that note, anyone who has in fact put that much time into the game should by no measure even come close to losing to someone who's not as practiced.

[EchoTwoOmega]

EXCEPT that if you don't offer an incentive for PvP people won't do it!

 

The incentive for participating in PVP is fun.

Do you PVP for the rewards? Or do you PVP because you enjoy engaging in that type of gameplay?

There are TONS of very succesful games out there that do not offer any gear/monetary reward for play.

 

No one wants to focus their time on PvP (I primarily PvP in most games, I ONLY PvP in this game) and see people who PvE gearing up and them getting nothing.

 

Gear progression = leveling.

 

I don't know why people can't get this. It is how you improve and work on your toon. It is a role-playing game. You progress.

 

Additionally, the Gear gap is not nearly as bad in this game as in others.

 

Agreed. The gap is not super huge and you can get PVP moderatly quickly. But there IS a gap.

 

You can totally help your team and do ok as a fresh 50. You can hit 50 with a saved up bag and 1k/1k and get a few pieces of gear and start gaining stuff fast.

 

Disagree completly. As a fresh 50 your completly worthless vs anyone who has a set of PVP gear.

you do 10% less damage to them.

you take 10% more damage from them. (thats a 20% difference)

Skill isnt going to close that difference either.

 

You cant trivialize the accomplishments of all your hardcore PvP players who have been working on their characters teh whole time.

 

No.

There are PLENTY of other ways or rewarding PVP players.

Leaderboards/Ladders

Unique armor/weapon sets

Titles

Other cosmetic stuffs etc.

 

 

that about sums it up.

Edited March 24, 2012 by EchoTwoOmega

[CanisAquilus]

These players think we didn't get our asses kicked when we first set foot in the 50 level bracket?

 

Everyone did, and DOES. It lasts about two days, then you have centurion and a few bits of champion gear and you're competitive. Hell when I hit the 50 bracket it was actually a lot harder to get gear than it is now.

 

The difference between the players in this thread, and other players demanding easy gear is that we powered through it like men, while other people ran to the forums crying to bioware to give them free loots because it was just too haaaaard.

 

The thing that really get's my goat is that they use the line "Well you need gear to beat people, you don't have any skill, you don't want an equal footing" as the justification for getting free / easymode gear.

 

Yeah that ones annoying to hear, but I know its bs, so I just tell it to cram it where the sun don't shine. I've been kicking rears and killing BMs ever since I got my champion gear, thats just historical fact.

 

Whats a lot more likely than the elites relying on a supposed "gear crutch" to beat them is them falsely attributing their losses to this supposedly enormous gear gap. A gap which in reality is pretty damn small between battlemaster and champion.

 

Whatever helps them salvage their dignity I guess, but brother, 8/10 time's I'd bet it aint the gear.

Edited March 24, 2012 by CanisAquilus

[hellczar]

Actually yes, most people would like to participate in a activity where they actually stand a fair chance at winning rather than losing from the start because they didn't put as much time as someone else put into the game.

 

Also on that note, anyone who has in fact put that much time into the game should by no measure even come close to losing to someone who's not as practiced.

 

Are you saying that some people's time is worth more than others?

[Rodingo]

Actually yes, most people would like to participate in a activity where they actually stand a fair chance at winning rather than losing from the start because they didn't put as much time as someone else put into the game.

 

Also on that note, anyone who has in fact put that much time into the game should by no measure even come close to losing to someone who's not as practiced.

 

As in let skill decide? I agree 100 percent and approve this message.

[CanisAquilus]

This isn't counterstrike, skill can't be a wholly determining factor. Its an mmo, and gear is always going to play a role in deciding the outcome of fights.

 

What you need to aim for is a situation where superior skill can overcome a reasonable gear gap. Say the gap between champion and battlemaster gear.

 

This is definitely something that can happen under the current system. I did it myself many, many, many times.

 

If you think its not possible, the problem may lie with you, not the game.

Edited March 24, 2012 by CanisAquilus

[Vaipyr]

Have you seen what Facebook is doing? If you play like Farmville, Castleville, Cityville, or Villeville, you get rinky dink little "quests" such as "Harvest 5 Corn!"

 

...OR pay 20 Horseshoes!

 

You can either plant 5 Corn, wait 5 minutes, then gather it up, or if you don't want to wait that long to complete the mission, you can pay 20 Horseshoes to autocomplete the quest immediately.

 

You can buy like 200 Horseshoes for around $149.99 Real. Life. Dollars.

 

Bioware should look into this. Want a Rakata Chest? Kill Hard Mode Soa!

 

...OR pay 20 Rusty Power Converters!

 

People will do it. I know a girl who does. Her farm is a great big clusterfrack of shat. Pigs can't even turn around, I should call PETA.

 

...Or pay 20 Horseshoes.

 

I would love this actually. If they implemented a system where I could pay them 200 bucks in order to have gear delivered to my character that allows me to autoroflstomp all over every self-loving narcissistic elistist no lifer basement dwelling jobless cretin that posts here while afk and finishes it off with a dramatically slow-mo teabag montage I would not only drop the piddly 200 bucks, I would do it monthly just to feed off the rage of the "hardcore" crowd.

Edited March 24, 2012 by Vaipyr

[Twin]

Im so tired of this "Instant Gratification" attitude some ppl have these days...

 

I think gear progression is fine, and i dont even have full champion gear on my main myself. Guess what? -I still do well.

 

I wish there were alot more rewards to get from pvp, rewards that needed work to get. And no, it doesnt have to be stuff that makes you better either - but they need to be really desirable items or it wont be an incentive or give a sense of acomplishment once obtained.

 

So yeah, give these kids their instant gratification armor at 50, remove expertise if they cry enough -I dont mind.

-But before that happens, there should be a whole lotta extremely desirable and uniqe items that NEEDS work to get and that only can be obtained by doing GOOD at pvp.

 

There has to be rewards that gives a sense of acomplishment for being good at what you do, or im willing to bet that more then just a few ppl will gradually get bored from this game.

 

Thats my oppinion.

 

//Twin

[sswdan]

this is the thread

its on 14 pages+ of absolute garbage

 

they should turn this into an Email game for the gimme Moar crew

everyday Bioware send yu an email about your toon, hw well it does and that heroic monent when you turned that 3 nil hutball loss into a 6 -3 vitory. that way the casuals dont even have to play and their toons keep getting geared withouht them actually doing Anything in the game. maybe send them a video every month as well doing a raid and a PvP match

they can even Boast about their hardcore PvP accomplishment on facebook or even Better, Bloware could post directly on Their facebook page and Twitter so all their friends can be amazed and come play star wars as wel.

 

please check your spelling..

 

its impossible to read...

[Vaipyr]

There has to be rewards that gives a sense of acomplishment for being good at what you do

 

Every ego-centric elitist talking about being good are in fact completely terribad in every aspect of this game and any other.

[Ozzone]

Im so tired of this "Instant Gratification" attitude some ppl have these days...

 

I think gear progression is fine, and i dont even have full champion gear on my main myself. Guess what? -I still do well.

 

I wish there were alot more rewards to get from pvp, rewards that needed work to get. And no, it doesnt have to be stuff that makes you better either - but they need to be really desirable items or it wont be an incentive or give a sense of acomplishment once obtained.

 

So yeah, give these kids their instant gratification armor at 50, remove expertise if they cry enough -I dont mind.

-But before that happens, there should be a whole lotta extremely desirable and uniqe items that NEEDS work to get and that only can be obtained by doing GOOD at pvp.

 

There has to be rewards that gives a sense of acomplishment for being good at what you do, or im willing to bet that more then just a few ppl will gradually get bored from this game.

 

Thats my oppinion.

 

//Twin

 

Excellent point Twin but you are making one fatal mistake in your post. You use the word "work". This is a game and a game should never be work. You open the door wide open for criticism (watch and see) because your choice of a word.

 

Accomplishment should require effort. Effort can mean a myriad of things but one thing it should not be is easy. That's the problem with developing a MMO and making it too easy which seems to be the path BW is heading down because they targeted the game to attract as many casual players as they could. Casual players don't have the time, or don't want to put in the time, to feel they are outgunned or out-geared. That's understandable if you think about it. But by doing so, they slowly but surely remove the core of an MMO, advancement and reward. The argument that winning is reward enough doesn't cut it for long. Giving token rewards (pretty pixels) or titles is not enough reward either in the long run. Case in point is valor ranks. It's become a token title now and means nothing (look at me, I'm a BM or WH or whatever). Hell, most players I see that have the WH title don't even use it. Why? Because it's a token title that really means nothing and, if anything, puts them up for ridicule from the "all you did was grind Ilum" crowd.

 

The main problem with this game is that BW used a game engine that is substandard (in terms of large-scale pvp) and, on top of that, tried to make it work for people with old computer systems (thus the core design of data juggling between asset files and the DISKARENACACHE) and players found out quickly that their 3 year old duo-core machines running 3 year old graphics cards and using Windows XP with 4 gig (or less) of ram just can't handle it. Gamers with more state-of-the-art PCs have less problems but the problem is still there. I have a very fast system but even I notice the severe lag in Ilum when you have dozens of players battling it out in a small area. The game slows down to a hitching crawl making it barely playable (based on my expectations of what my system can handle).

 

It is pretty obvious to most everyone here that end-game large-scale PvP is dead for now based on BW's reaction to forcing players to not go to Ilum. They are focusing their attention of giving more warzones (small scale PvP). Sorry, but most players can only do so much scripted small-scale PvP before they get tired of it. As long as BW continues down that path, which it appears they are doing, the more players they are going to lose.

[Bazzoong]

I would love this actually. If they implemented a system where I could pay them 200 bucks in order to have gear delivered to my character that allows me to autoroflstomp all over every self-loving narcissistic elistist no lifer basement dwelling jobless cretin that posts here while afk and finishes it off with a dramatically slow-mo teabag montage I would not only drop the piddly 200 bucks, I would do it monthly just to feed off the rage of the "hardcore" crowd.

 

I just saw the LIGHT.

[CaptainInsano]

MMO Epeening has to be the saddest social practice. People frown on the rich lording over the less fortunate, but at least those are real assets. This is a video game buddy. You're taking pride in pixels. Edited March 24, 2012 by CaptainInsano

[Scudmungus]

O-o

 

My virtual glory,

Invested in hero dreams.

I suffer, so you must.

Edited March 24, 2012 by Scudmungus

[Xinika]

I would love this actually. If they implemented a system where I could pay them 200 bucks in order to have gear delivered to my character that allows me to autoroflstomp all over every self-loving narcissistic elistist no lifer basement dwelling jobless cretin that posts here while afk and finishes it off with a dramatically slow-mo teabag montage I would not only drop the piddly 200 bucks, I would do it monthly just to feed off the rage of the "hardcore" crowd.

 

What about people who don't care about the ego? People who actually enjoy character progression due to skill?

[CanisAquilus]

Don't bother.

 

That whole "Anyone better at pvp than me MUST be an unemployed basement dweller who also has less money than me" is just basic ego-soothing behavior. Its how he gets his rear kicked in pvp, without feeling bad about it.

 

And did you see how he tried to underscore how 200 dollars is such a small amount of money to him? A mere tuppence to this collosus of wealth, this star wars playing warren buffet... or so he would have us believe.

 

Its just ego stroking of another sort, and in a place where it has no relevence.

 

The fact that he feels the need to throw these aspersions around says a lot more about him than it does them imho.

 

---

 

On a seperate more positive note, Ozzone's post was excellent. So excellent I'm going to quote it:

 

Excellent point Twin but you are making one fatal mistake in your post. You use the word "work". This is a game and a game should never be work. You open the door wide open for criticism (watch and see) because your choice of a word.

 

Accomplishment should require effort. Effort can mean a myriad of things but one thing it should not be is easy. That's the problem with developing a MMO and making it too easy which seems to be the path BW is heading down because they targeted the game to attract as many casual players as they could. Casual players don't have the time, or don't want to put in the time, to feel they are outgunned or out-geared. That's understandable if you think about it. But by doing so, they slowly but surely remove the core of an MMO, advancement and reward. The argument that winning is reward enough doesn't cut it for long. Giving token rewards (pretty pixels) or titles is not enough reward either in the long run. Case in point is valor ranks. It's become a token title now and means nothing (look at me, I'm a BM or WH or whatever). Hell, most players I see that have the WH title don't even use it. Why? Because it's a token title that really means nothing and, if anything, puts them up for ridicule from the "all you did was grind Ilum" crowd.

 

The main problem with this game is that BW used a game engine that is substandard (in terms of large-scale pvp) and, on top of that, tried to make it work for people with old computer systems (thus the core design of data juggling between asset files and the DISKARENACACHE) and players found out quickly that their 3 year old duo-core machines running 3 year old graphics cards and using Windows XP with 4 gig (or less) of ram just can't handle it. Gamers with more state-of-the-art PCs have less problems but the problem is still there. I have a very fast system but even I notice the severe lag in Ilum when you have dozens of players battling it out in a small area. The game slows down to a hitching crawl making it barely playable (based on my expectations of what my system can handle).

 

It is pretty obvious to most everyone here that end-game large-scale PvP is dead for now based on BW's reaction to forcing players to not go to Ilum. They are focusing their attention of giving more warzones (small scale PvP). Sorry, but most players can only do so much scripted small-scale PvP before they get tired of it. As long as BW continues down that path, which it appears they are doing, the more players they are going to lose.

Edited March 24, 2012 by CanisAquilus

[Morticoccus]

I would love this actually. If they implemented a system where I could pay them 200 bucks in order to have gear delivered to my character that allows me to autoroflstomp all over every self-loving narcissistic elistist no lifer basement dwelling jobless cretin that posts here while afk and finishes it off with a dramatically slow-mo teabag montage I would not only drop the piddly 200 bucks, I would do it monthly just to feed off the rage of the "hardcore" crowd.

 

I wouldn't pay for it, but I would love to see the youtube vids afterwards and laugh at the silly flame wars they spark.

 

Because elitists are FUN when they get mad =3

[Morticoccus]

Don't bother.

 

That whole "Anyone better at pvp than me MUST be an unemployed basement dweller who also has less money than me" is just basic ego-soothing behavior. Its how he gets his rear kicked in pvp, without feeling bad about it.

 

And did you see how he tried to underscore how 200 dollars is such a small amount of money to him? A mere tuppence to this collosus of wealth, this star wars playing warren buffet... or so he would have us believe.

 

Its just ego stroking of another sort, and in a place where it has no relevence.

 

The fact that he feels the need to throw these aspersions around says a lot more about him than it does them imho.

 

---

 

On a seperate more positive note, Ozzone's post was excellent. So excellent I'm going to quote it:

 

Actually, I don't see everyone that's better than me as basement dwelling no lifers, I just see them as people that have played longer than me and learned the maps/their characters better.

 

Because I only play PvP once in a while for fun.

 

However, the issue on display here is that people complain that gear progression has been made faster and easier, and their arguments against it are just as self entitled as the arguments that exist for it, moreso even.

 

You guys don't want new players to get good gear fast because you say that they have not worked as hard as you for it, and because it cheapens the armor you're running around in.

 

They say that they want the same gear you guys have because if everyone has the same gear the game will be more skill based.

 

In the end, they actually make more sense than you, because you *also* snicker about killing the noobs by the score once they poke their falsely aquired nose protectors into the 50 bracket.

 

By your own admission you would and could do that whether they have the same gear as you or not, and that invalidates any claim you could make as to them having an easier time.

 

They'll still die to your mad skills, they'll just look as silly as you while you kill them. (Because let's face it, top tier PvP gear is sort of lacking in style for the most part)

[Crumpilumpigus]

My understanding was that when they changed the PvP queuing system to cross-server, they were also going to try to queue players with similar rankings and gear together for matches. If that is the case, who cares if there is gear progression in PvP? You will still be playing on a reasonably fair playing field.

 

I understand them putting in a level 50 PvP set, but I don't understand why that set is comparable to the champion set. Personally, I'd really like to see the PvP gear tiers continue to mirror the PvE gear tiers.