Jedis vs Ultramarines. Siths vs Ultramarines. Who´d won ?

[STD_Skindancer]

Ok I don't really know anything bout WK40, but thanks for making me hate ultramarines now...they sound stupidly overpowered I would choose bigger words cause stupidly overpowered doesn't seem to cut it.

 

 

 

They shall be my finest warriors,

these men who give of themselves to me.

Like clay I shall mould them,

and in the furnace of war forge them.

They will be of iron will and steely muscle.

In great armour shall I clad them

and with the mightiest guns will they be armed.

They will be untouched by plague or disease,

no sickness will blight them.

They will have tactics, strategies and machines

so that no foe can best them in battle.

They are my bulwark against the Terror.

They are the Defenders of Humanity.

They are my Space Marines...

 

...and they shall know no fear.

 

- The Emperor of Men during the creation of the Space Marines.

[Captain_Zone]

Fair enough, but I am talking canon here.

 

Plus I find the idea of the LS Sith Warrior abhorrent, because good is dumb and evil has cookies.

 

*takes your cookies*

 

But seriously, I ran him LS because I was sick of the usual "kill everyone who looks at you funny" Sith, and wanted to try something different. lol

 

The funny thing is, it's actually more fun to run a SW as LS. Some of the comedic moments are priceless. Including Darth Vowrawn who is arguably the best NPC in the game. He's a LOT funnier if you're nice to him. lol

[Captain_Zone]

Oh, and in ANY Sith vs. Ultramarines fight, or in any Jedi vs. Ultramarines fight.....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Kyle Katarn wins.

Edited March 24, 2012 by Captain_Zone

[LemmingLeader]

I love both Star Wars and the WH40k franchises. That said, the factions and forces of Star Wars cannot withstand against the Imperium of Man from WH40k. The scale, scope, and carnage, not to mention the technology involved is staggering. Everyone is basically against everyone in WH40k, and as someone posted earlier in this thread, the differing factions are hellbent on conquest and war, to eliminate the others.

 

The Imperium of Man in WH40k is rather large but it is assailed by every possible thing in the WH40k universe, from every possible direction. The Imperium has not known peace in thousands and thousands of years. There is always a significant war going somewhere, not to mention dealing with the occasional rebellions, alien / chaos raids.

 

The Space Marines are the first and foremost instrument of war for Man. Equipped with the best the Empire has to offer, trained to be the best.

 

The nightmares Mankind, and of course the Space Marines, have to face are staggering. The Star Wars universe is tame in comparison.

 

If people want to add the conventional forces of the Republic / Empire to go alongside the Jedi / Sith, then to be fair, you need to add the overhwelming juggernaut of the Imperium that the Space Marines are a part of: The Imperial Guard, Navy, and assorted agencies like Officio Assassinorum. Then there's the Psykers that are sprinkled about the different forces, to include even the Space Marines.

 

You're talking about forces coming from an IP where the motto is "In the grim future, there is only war."

 

Also, a quote I found regarding the WH40k universe:

 

“Warhammer 40k; Where tactical nukes are used as anti-personnel land mines, personal weapons are fully automatic 20mm gyro-jet grenade launchers, escort ships are capable of crippling planets by ramming them at full speed, billions die due to rounding errors in the Imperial Bureaucracy, where FTL travel involves jumping into hell, navigating by the beacon lit by souls, and jumping out before the daemons catch you.”

 

The Star Wars universe is a stroll in a peaceful park on a warm, sunny day in comparison to the WH40k universe.

Edited March 24, 2012 by LemmingLeader

[Ivanblood]

Let´s not clash entire universes. It´s totally clear that W40K is the most violent one. Let´s not use the weapons of mass destruction too. Just stick to the land battlles one vs one, group vs group, heroe vs heroe, company vs company, company plus heroes vs company plus heroes. Quantities should be relatively equal on both sides. Don´t forget that Jedis would certainly addapt guerrilla tactics and act stealthier than ultramarines. And as we all know, guerrilla tactics won many wars.

 

Right now, the most objective we have in favor of Jedis would be

 

The fall of the Ultramarines:

 

Preface:

I will be using the full might of the Jedi on this one. I'll be using the Force Powers as depicted by the novels and the EU. I will assume that the wizards on the side of the Ultramarines can stop any "direct" wipe out attack used by the Jedi like a thought bomb or simply mind-melting the entire Ultramarine forces.

 

Force Powers that the Ultramarines cannot counter however are three very big ones. The first being Battle Meditation and the second being Battle Meld and the third being Surrender to the Force.

 

Battle Meditation affects the probabilities and the morale of people in combat. It would be much weaker against the Ultramarines because the negative effects on the marines would be mitigated by their wizards. The morale of the Jedi, however, would be highly raised.

 

Another power that would swing this is the Battle Meld. This is when Jedi enter into a hive mind state. Jedi combat efficiency continues to raise the more people who are part of the meld. It gives the Jedi, who already possess an incredible battle sense, even more capabilities to detect to, and react to, threats. On top of this they can coordinate attacks and movements at the speed of thought.

 

Surrender to the Force is another nasty ability. This particular ability is the trump card. A Jedi who fully surrenders to the Force becomes virtually unstoppable. By this we mean all aspects of the Jedi are magnified to frightening levels. We have witnessed lone Jedi defeating entire armies of Yuuzahn Vong, including artillery and tanks, while in this state, personally killing over a thousand enemies in one skirmish.

 

Some of the feats demonstrated while in this state:

 

• Superhuman speed. (Luke Skywalker was able to move so fast he appeared to vanish. We are talking DBZ levels of speed here.)
  
• Superhuman strength. (In this state both Luke, Ganner, and Jacen Solo exhibited extreme amounts of strength.)
  
• Superhuman stamina. (Jedi in this state do not become tired.)
  
• Superhuman Force abilities. (Ganner was throwing tanks and huge statues in his state.)
  
• Immunity to pain and injury. (Jedi who perform this technique are immune to any pain, or the effects of any injury for the duration. Examples include: Functioning rationally and without a drop in combat prowess after losing part of the brain, immunity to poison, fatal wounds such as pierced vital organs such as hearts and lungs, removed limbs, and more.)
  

 

So when the Ultramarines are attacked by battle melded Jedi who are moving so fast that they are theoretically operating faster than light who can predict attacks and can see/sense through every other Jedi there and the Jedi are bolstered by an immunity to fear and all other Jedi abilities are bolstered to insane levels there is nothing they can do. Ultramarines don't possess anything that lets them realistically fight enemies with those capabilities. They won't even have a range advantage because the Jedi can move and close the distance before the Marines can even register with their eyes where they are. On top of that, even if a Marine got lucky enough to blow half of a Jedi's head off we saw in Barv's case that losing half of his brain did not effect him until his body was literally vaped.

 

Edit:

 

To add - Luke Skywalker, using the Force, was capable of defeating a full on Celestial (a God) in single combat. I am pretty sure that a Force User could give a Psyker a run for their money. Note that Jedi can also instantaneously teleport (it is an Aiing Tii monk technique) over any distance and theoretically can travel backwards through time to witness events of the distant past.

 

I am pretty sure lightsabers can cut through sawswords, armor, and electricity can shut down their suits. If not, a large force push into a canyon with their sawswords all in a jumple, cutting each other midair would end the fight rather quickly.

 

the most objective posts in favor of Ultramarines would be

 

So lets just say this is a Chapter of your average Space Marines versus an equal force of your average Jedi. Ill just bullet off a few points and facts.

 

1.) Psyker versus Force: Both probally cant really affect the other to a degree but both would be extremely deadly. They operate off of differant principles the warp and well the force. A lone Pysker is most likely more deadly to a mass of soldiers than a force user due to the fact that he just has to mutter a word and they will break down mumbling and brainwashed. I highly doubt a force user could use any mind effect on a Marine due to their immense willpower and fanatical devotion to the Imperium. A force user also can not rip out a weapon from a marines hand as has been seen in the movies the more force required the more you will have to focus and these weapons and marines are extremely heavy and the marine is frankly brutally (Superhuman) strong. He could bludgeon a Jedi to death with his fists alone.

 

2.) Light Sabers: Yes they would cut through many materials. Power weapons would be a no as they are sheathed in energy. Power armour yes and no it would take time theres now way its going through that like butter.

 

3.) Blasters versus War 40k weaponry: As stated earlier a blaster is a musket compared to an imperial soldiers lasgun. A Bolter with all the differant ammo types and the foremost being explosive causes problems for the jedi deflecting the shots as well.

 

4.) Jedi Sense: This is were all theyre close combat advantage pretty much comes from. Its what allows them to deal with the super human speed of a Marine however due to them not being as fast this balances out and it really comes down to sheer skill. Marines in most cases have the upper hand. Id love to see a Jedi force push a marine but thats like force pushing a boulder takes some effort and it would also leave them open.

 

5.) Vehicles: No contest war 40k, for example vindicators would rip apart the enemy's

 

6.) Strategy: Ill include battle meld here however the average jedi is most likely incapable of using battle meditation as well as the fact even normal marines are on that morale level that they could be boosted to anyway. Battle meld would allow the Jedi to react faster to changing situations in the battle field however the marines have better tactics due to their decades fighting hundred of differant enemies across the galaxy.

 

7.) Raw unmodified power: without the force a Jedi (or Sith) is nothing. A marine without his armour and even his weapons could kill a armed Jedi if he was cut off from the force. A space marine is a super soldier they would pull a jedis arms off like a wookie does for entertainment.

 

I dont think I missed anything, feel free to point out flaws in this logic but to me it is clear to me that in a LAND battle between ordinary foe from each side the Space Marines would win, with heavy losses of course. So no Jedi master or Luke Skywalker referances here unless an equal Warhammer 40k Champion is used in comparison. For instance the Emperor or a Primarch.

 

And this one

 

Originally Posted by ProfessorWalsh
The fall of the Ultramarines:

Preface:
I will be using the full might of the Jedi on this one. I'll be using the Force Powers as depicted by the novels and the EU. I will assume that the wizards on the side of the Ultramarines can stop any "direct" wipe out attack used by the Jedi like a thought bomb or simply mind-melting the entire Ultramarine forces.

 

Force Powers that the Ultramarines cannot counter however are three very big ones. The first being Battle Meditation and the second being Battle Meld and the third being Surrender to the Force.

Battle Meditation affects the probabilities and the morale of people in combat. It would be much weaker against the Ultramarines because the negative effects on the marines would be mitigated by their wizards. The morale of the Jedi, however, would be highly raised.

 

Space Marines can't feel fear. At all. Its genetically and physiologically impossible for them to feel fear or be demoralized.

 

Another power that would swing this is the Battle Meld. This is when Jedi enter into a hive mind state. Jedi combat efficiency continues to raise the more people who are part of the meld. It gives the Jedi, who already possess an incredible battle sense, even more capabilities to detect to, and react to, threats. On top of this they can coordinate attacks and movements at the speed of thought.

 

This one won't really be as much of an issue as you seem to think it is, Ultramarines repelled an invasion from an absolutely massive (it would have devoured the entire Star Wars Galaxy massive) force of Hive Mind linked super alien bugs that are more horrendous than anything the Jedi could ever come up with. In short, they've seen it before.

 

Surrender to the Force is another nasty ability. This particular ability is the trump card. A Jedi who fully surrenders to the Force becomes virtually unstoppable. By this we mean all aspects of the Jedi are magnified to frightening levels. We have witnessed lone Jedi defeating entire armies of Yuuzahn Vong, including artillery and tanks, while in this state, personally killing over a thousand enemies in one skirmish.

 

As it stands, a Space Marine Librarian could do exactly the same thing if they wanted to, and in fact they have before. The Ultramarine head Librarian is considered one of the most powerful psykers in the galaxy.

 

Some of the feats demonstrated while in this state:

   Superhuman speed. (Luke Skywalker was able to move so fast he appeared to vanish. We are talking DBZ levels of speed here.)
   Superhuman strength. (In this state both Luke, Ganner, and Jacen Solo exhibited extreme amounts of strength.)
   Superhuman stamina. (Jedi in this state do not become tired.)
   Superhuman Force abilities. (Ganner was throwing tanks and huge statues in his state.)
   Immunity to pain and injury. (Jedi who perform this technique are immune to any pain, or the effects of any injury for the duration. Examples include: Functioning rationally and without a drop in combat prowess after losing part of the brain, immunity to poison, fatal wounds such as pierced vital organs such as hearts and lungs, removed limbs, and more.)

 

Half of this list is what the average Space Marine possesses just as a matter of course. They have superhuman speed, they have superhuman strength, they don't need to sleep for weeks on end, they literally can not feel pain unless half of their chest is blasted open and they're missing most of their major organs, to which they have backup organs that will keep them alive and fighting. In fact, the only one that the average Space Marine doesn't have is the super mind powers.

 

So when the Ultramarines are attacked by battle melded Jedi who are moving so fast that they are theoretically operating faster than light who can predict attacks and can see/sense through every other Jedi there and the Jedi are bolstered by an immunity to fear and all other Jedi abilities are bolstered to insane levels there is nothing they can do. Ultramarines don't possess anything that lets them realistically fight enemies with those capabilities. They won't even have a range advantage because the Jedi can move and close the distance before the Marines can even register with their eyes where they are. On top of that, even if a Marine got lucky enough to blow half of a Jedi's head off we saw in Barv's case that losing half of his brain did not effect him until his body was literally vaped.

The Ultramarines fight enemies with those capabilities every day, its their job to do so, its exactly what they were created to do.

 

Edit:

To add - Luke Skywalker, using the Force, was capable of defeating a full on Celestial (a God) in single combat. I am pretty sure that a Force User could give a Psyker a run for their money. Note that Jedi can also instantaneously teleport (it is an Aiing Tii monk technique) over any distance and theoretically can travel backwards through time to witness events of the distant past.

 

The God Emperor of Mankind (because that's what Luke is comparable to) has been holding back the corrupting influence of three deities that would, if they were allowed by him, destroy the very fabric of reality and remake existence in their own image. For ten thousand years. While dying. Without using his full attention. While he was watching over billions of individual lives across the galaxy. And he was still coherent enough to give instructions to his attendants at the Golden Throne. On top of all this, he still had the strength left over to stop time for a while to talk to Inquisitor Draco uninterrupted.

 

As I already said, don´t forget about tactics. Jedis wouldn´t rush against Ultramarines.

Edited March 24, 2012 by Ivanblood

[LemmingLeader]

Trying to whittle down numbers to be equal goes heavily into the favor of Jedi when you're comparing things. Remember, the Jedi Order is very small, a drop in the bucket compared to the actual military of the Republic. In contrast is the Space Marines, where they are miniscule in size in the grand scope of the Imperium's military, they still have 1000 Chapters, composed of 1000 Space Marines each (give or take).

 

Large gatherings of Jedi are extremely rare and usually is very costly for the Jedi when they do so. Great example is Geonosis at the onset of the Clone Wars. The Order sent the largest assembly of Jedi we have ever seen in all the SW movies to confront, essentially a conventional Droid force. There was only 1 Sith present, Dooku, and 1 Mandalorian, Jango Fett. Yet the losses suffered by the Jedi were terrible and were really only saved by the arrival of the Clonetroopers... another conventional force.

 

You had a large gathering of Jedi, counting among them many we know as Masters, to include Mace Windu, and reknowned ones like Obi-Wan and Anakin. Yet the Jedi were bludgeoned into a small defensive formation in the middle of the arena by a bunch of walking, throwaway toasters that were Battle Droids. Placed into such a disadvantageous position that Dooku offered them a chance to surrender.

 

And dispersed fighting isn't strange to the Space Marines. They oftenly have to do such operations. Remember, if at all possible, they are the first to arrive for an Imperial campaign. Several companies (several hundred) are usually sent to land on a planet and conduct operations to "cleanse and pacify" the defenders and locals. Squads sent in piecemeal are often enough to do many tasks that would require larger formations of the Imperial Guard. And if the threat is that dangerous, they'll send the entire 1000 man Chapter in for the invasion.

 

You are talking about absolute professionals when you bring up Space Marines. There's 2 things Space Marines do for their entire lives: Train for war, fight in war. They do this for their much longer than a regular human's lifetime, since they can go for a few hundred years (if they're fortunate). They are consummate professionals in military strategy and tactics. A Space Marine officer can take over a planetary operation even if the present Imperial Guard vastly outnumber the Space Marines. Even in a smaller scale, leadership has oftenly deferred to the senior Marine present.

Edited March 24, 2012 by LemmingLeader

[nachoman_randy]

In fact, the only way to the jedi to have fighting chance agaist a force of space marines would be to use power armor, power weapons and bolters but guess what, that puts them in the lvl of a Grey Knight.

[billyboyjennings]

Haven't seen much evidence to back up claims here.

 

Here are basic Space Marine Librarian psyker powers from page 57 of the Codex: Space Marines (5th Edition) and examples for a couple of them in use that I found from official novels.

 

 

Force Dome:

 

"Reaching out with his mind, the Librarian erects a barrier of shimmering force about himself and his companions."

 

 

Null Zone:

 

"The Librarian turns the full force of his mind upon the foe, peeling away their layers of mystical protection and leaving them vulnerable to the weaponry of his brothers."

 

 

Quickening:

 

"Using his uncanny mind to project his physical being forwards into the timestream, the Librarian acts so swiftly as to defy the vision of his foes."

 

 

Might of the Ancients:

 

"The deadly powers of the Immaterium heighten the Librarian's strength to unimaginable levels, the better to vanquish the foes of the Emperor.

 

 

Smite:

 

"Lethal bolts of lightning leap from the Librarian's fingertips, tearing his enemies apart in a barrage of psychic power."

 

Smite in use:

 

Hellforged, Pg. 77

“Librarian Tyrendian furrowed his brow, and thrust a hand at the Undying advancing along the war engine’s main chamber. Caged lightning arced from his fingers. Shards of hot metal and shattered exoskeleton flew. Green crystal shattered, loosing more bolts of light, emerald this time.

 

Imprisoned bodies fell, torn from the walls by the discharged power. The walkways along the centre of the chamber buckled, spilling the Undying warriors into the machinery below. Tyrendian leapt from the gantry above onto a remaining walkway. A squad of the Undying stood before him, bracing themselves as they levelled their cannon at him. Tyrendian yelled, and power crackled around him, blazing from his eyes and grounding off his fingers. He hurled lightning like a javelin, blowing the walkway apart. Undying bodies flew. One cracked against the wall, bringing down a few human captives with it. Another was impaled on the twisted guardrail, green sparks spitting from the wound.”

 

*Note: This example is of Smite being used by an Imperial Guard Sanctioned Psyker, NOT a SM Librarian. Sanctioned Psykers are much less powerful than Librarians, so this evidence could be used as a lower limit*

 

Cadian Blood, Pg. 75

“The most recent time had only been the year before, fighting heretics on the hive world of Beshic V, when the sanctioned psyker had half-melted an enemy tank with psychic lightning from the aquila atop his staff. The crew were cooked alive in their armoured tomb.”

 

 

 

The Avenger:

 

"The Librarian draws on the ancient legends of his Chapter to create a destructive avatar of roiling flame. The psychic construct billows forward, leaving destruction in its wake."

 

The Avenger in use:

 

Salamander, Pg. 77

“'Brothers…' Pyriel’s voice crackled like the deepest magma pits of Mount Deathfire, '…go to your blades… Now!' he roared, and the wall of flame exploded outwards with atomic force, the nuclear fire burning all within its path to ash. The servitors became darkened silhouettes in the haze, only to disintegrate like shadows before the sun.”

...

“The conflagration had been devastating. Hundreds of automatons were dead. It provided but a few moments’ respite.”

 

*Possibly Avenger power in use?*

 

Salamander, Pg. 76

“The Librarian opened his palm. With gauntleted fingers splayed he engulfed the servitor in a blast of psychic fire from his hand, burning out its eyes, rendering its flesh to charred hunks and scorching machinery black.”

 

 

 

The Gate of Infinity:

 

"Focussing his Warp-sense, the Librarian creates a corridor of safe passage through the Immaterium, allowing him to cross great distances in but the blink of an eye."

 

 

The Vortex of Doom:

 

"The Librarian opens a tear between the material realm and the howling destruction of the Warp, unleashing devastating energies that utterly consume his foes."

 

 

 

Quick Overview

Space Marine Librarian powers:

 

• Psychic lightning that can rip enemies apart and melt battle tanks.
  
• Creation of psychic constructs of flame that can kill hundreds of foes.
  
• Able to create a tear in reality to destroy opponents.
  
• Psychically enhance his already superhuman strength even further.
  
• Creation of force fields.
  
• Ability to time travel.
  
• Ability to teleport.
  

Then, of course, there is his century+ of combat experience in the 40k universe and all the other basic SM stuff (superhuman toughness, strength, speed, bolt weaponry, power armor, etc.)

 

Even the basic Librarian has access to powers that are far superior to what most Jedi/Sith are capable of. I have little doubt that Psykers would steamroll through Force users.

 

 

 

There are many more novels in the Black LIBRARY than Star Wars has, I assure you that, believe me, the amount of books in the Black Library is immense in scope.

 

Yes, there are a ton of 40k novels out there. You should check out http://www.spuler.us/40k/

This site keeps track of many, but not all, of the 40k stories released so far.

Edited March 25, 2012 by billyboyjennings

[Alvestar]

Ultramarines.

 

That is all.

 

P.S. Oh go on then, I'll bite and give a few basic arguments: A jedi all hopped up on the force, pushing himself to the limits of the force is how a Space Marine is at any given moment in a day. When a Space Marine is in battle, their armour and implanted organs make them even more powerful and deadly.

 

Jedi have le force to augment their limited close combat capabilities. Marines have have a whole bloody arsenal of weapons to take down whitey at range the least of which is the bolt-gun, a .75 caliber weapon, firing self-propelled explosive 'bolts' which explode with devastating effect once it has penetrated its target, effectively blowing it apart from the inside.

Edited March 25, 2012 by Alvestar

[Bisca]

The 40k nerd in me is raging at this thread and all the people who claim to know about 40k...I think I should go before I have a rage stroke.

 

NEERRRDDD RAAAGGGEEEEE!!!!@!!!!!

 

Edit: Some of you know what you're talking about...my rage was misplaced...Either way, pretty much any race in 40k would decimate anything starwars could throw at it...even the imperial guard...

Edited March 25, 2012 by Bisca

[Kirbycollin]

You are talking about absolute professionals when you bring up Space Marines. There's 2 things Space Marines do for their entire lives: Train for war, fight in war. They do this for their much longer than a regular human's lifetime, since they can go for a few hundred years (if they're fortunate). They are consummate professionals in military strategy and tactics. A Space Marine officer can take over a planetary operation even if the present Imperial Guard vastly outnumber the Space Marines. Even in a smaller scale, leadership has oftenly deferred to the senior Marine present.

 

Space Marines can theoretically live forever, as it is stated during the Horus Heresy novels that one has never died of age. The oldest current Space Marine is Bjorn the Fell-Handed, who has been around since the 31st Millenium, as the current time in WH40K id the 41st Millenium, he has been living for over 10,000n years, however he is interred within a dreadnought.

 

Space Marines can't feel fear. At all. Its genetically and physiologically impossible for them to feel fear or be demoralized.

Space Marines, according to one of the novels within the Horus Heresy series, DO feel fear, however they have been given the neccesary training and possess the sheer willpower to completely ignore it.

Edited March 25, 2012 by Kirbycollin

[Aximand]

Space Marines can theoretically live forever, as it is stated during the Horus Heresy novels that one has never died of age. The oldest current Space Marine is Bjorn the Fell-Handed, who has been around since the 31st Millenium, as the current time in WH40K id the 41st Millenium, he has been living for over 10,000n years, however he is interred within a dreadnought.

 

 

Space Marines, according to one of the novels within the Horus Heresy series, DO feel fear, however they have been given the neccesary training and possess the sheer willpower to completely ignore it.

 

"And they shall know no fear" is a higher form of Canon than the Horus Heresy novels, but I know which one you're talking about.

 

40K Canon is funky as hell this way, the Codexes (Codecies?) whatever, are the highest absolute when it comes to Canon, and you can pick and choose what parts of the novels that you like the best as far as that Canon goes but there's a general base line that the fandom adheres to (C.S. Goto is a hack, anything that supports Matt Ward is Heresy unless it, shockingly, makes sense).

Edited March 25, 2012 by Aximand

[billyboyjennings]

"And they shall know no fear" is a higher form of Canon than the Horus Heresy novels, but I know which one you're talking about.

 

Space Marines do actually know what fear is. Like Kribycollin said, they can control and ignore it, so it's never a problem.

 

Hellforged, Pg. 72 (eBook)

"It was a strange thing for a Space Marine to think so deeply about fear, which the Emperor had created him to control and ignore as an unwanted sensation, but Sarpedon had to understand it."

Edited March 25, 2012 by billyboyjennings

[Aximand]

Space Marines do actually know what fear is. Like Kribycollin said, they can control and ignore it, so it's never a problem.

 

Like I said, the Codex actually trumps any form of novel. If the Space Marine Codex says that Space Marines are fearless, then they're fearless.

 

I'm not saying they don't know what fear is, or that they don't understand that other humans get afraid, but they themselves cannot feel fear as far as the bottom line goes.

Edited March 25, 2012 by Aximand

[billyboyjennings]

Like I said, the Codex actually trumps any form of novel. If the Space Marine Codex says that Space Marines are fearless, then they're fearless.

 

They control it to such a degree that they can be called fearless. Space Marines may not feel fear anymore due to training and all that, but some still know what fear is. That does not contradict the Codex.

Plenty of canon lore says they know what fear is. Also, keep in mind that some of the things stated in the Codex is Imperial propaganda.

[Aximand]

They control it to such a degree that they can be called fearless. Space Marines may not feel fear anymore due to training and all that, but some still know what fear is. That does not contradict the Codex.

Plenty of canon lore says they know what fear is. Also, keep in mind that some of the things stated in the Codex is Imperial propaganda.

 

Second part of my post agrees with you for the most part. The bottom line is that the Jedi mind trick trying to demoralize them won't do jack.

[billyboyjennings]

Second part of my post agrees with you for the most part. The bottom line is that the Jedi mind trick trying to demoralize them won't do jack.

 

I agree. Jedi mind tricks would do nothing to a Marine.

All I'm saying is that they aren't completely oblivious to what fear is.

[Aximand]

I agree. Jedi mind tricks would do nothing to a Marine.

All I'm saying is that they aren't completely oblivious to what fear is.

 

And I agree. The second half of the post you quoted explains it better.

 

I'm not saying they don't know what fear is, or that they don't understand that other humans get afraid, but they themselves cannot feel fear as far as the bottom line goes.

[MORTTUUM]

WH40K loses to ANY other "sci-fi" realm. The ORKS demonstrate the most intelligence in the 40K universe, and smart beats stupid every time.

[billyboyjennings]

WH40K loses to ANY other "sci-fi" realm. The ORKS demonstrate the most intelligence in the 40K universe, and smart beats stupid every time.

 

Uh...no they don't. What are you even talking about?

[Aximand]

WH40K loses to ANY other "sci-fi" realm. The ORKS demonstrate the most intelligence in the 40K universe, and smart beats stupid every time.

 

Someone's got a bias.

[Rayla_Felana]

WH40K loses to ANY other "sci-fi" realm. The ORKS demonstrate the most intelligence in the 40K universe, and smart beats stupid every time.

 

What? It is the most powerful of any Sci-Fi universe if anything, there was a thread a LONG time ago in these threads where it was all the sci-fi universes you can imagine going against each other.

 

What it boiled down to is this, even if one of those universes could wipe out Terra and kill the Emperor, all you will have done is allowed Chaos to unleash itself, the warp spills into reality, all life everywhere is wiped out by four different versions of hell, 40k's Chaos wins, if you don't manage to kill the Emperor and destroy Terra, you lose to the Imperium of Man, game over.

Edited March 26, 2012 by Rayla_Felana

[Bisca]

Well if the emperor were to be killed it could be a good thing. Supposedly the reason the emperor is still alive is due to corruption within the imperium. That being said, if the emperor were to ever die, he would be reincarnated...theoretically...according to lore.

 

...and before any other 40k fans rage at me...I said COULD BE...There isn't anything saying he would for sure resurrect...one of those nifty what ifs in lore

 

Either way...40k would destroy any other sci-fi universe.

[Aximand]

Well if the emperor were to be killed it could be a good thing. Supposedly the reason the emperor is still alive is due to corruption within the imperium. That being said, if the emperor were to ever die, he would be reincarnated...theoretically...according to lore.

 

...and before any other 40k fans rage at me...I said COULD BE...There isn't anything saying he would for sure resurrect...one of those nifty what ifs in lore

 

Either way...40k would destroy any other sci-fi universe.

 

Well this 40K fan isn't going to rage at you. That's one of the leading theories in the 40K universe, of the other two another one is another reincarnation and the third is the end of existence. Quite honestly, I'm partial to the Star Child one where he's reborn as an actual God once the Golden Throne fails. Either way, he's either reincarnated even more powerful than he already is or Chaos is unleashed on the universe and the Chaos Gods remake everything in their image. So if the Jedi want to kill the Emperor and succeed, good luck surviving the aftermath.

[KingKolKappi]

I think ultramarines win but warhammer 40k is not the most powerful scifi setting by a long shot tengen toppa gurren lagann anyone?