Jedis vs Ultramarines. Siths vs Ultramarines. Who´d won ?

[Ivanblood]

In a battle against the most relentless warriors of W40k universe, who would won ?

 

Light Sabers vs Chain Swords.

Force vs Genetical Superiority.

Light/Dark path vs Blind Fanaticism.

 

I bet for ultramarines. Jedis are very individualistic while ultramarines fight as a brotherhood.

 

UPDATE: As Jedis are loosing hardly, let´s not forget Jedis and Sith can use their regular armies as a support to fight Ultramarines.

 

UPDATE: Jedis and Sith united. Who would win ?

 

UPDATE: From the page 4, ultramarines are in trouble.

 

UPDATE: Citing Luke Skywalker´s powers is not allowed. He´s too overpowerful with 200 novels. Try to use a standard powerful jedi. Simply let´s not shape a super jedi who incorporates all powers mentioned in the books, but those that are shared mostly by all jedis.

 

UPDATE:

The same rules for the ultramarines. Don´t cite the emperor and other champions powers.

 

UPDATE:

Comparing two overpowered champions from both universes is allowed.

 

UPDATE:

From page 6-7, ultramarines return to gain an uppper hand .

 

UPDATE:

The result of the clash till now: With the help of Luke Skywalker and other major force masters, jedis have a chance against ultramarines. Withous them, not so much.

 

UPDATE:

Let´s not clash entire universes. It´s totally clear that W40K is the most violent one. Let´s not use the weapons of mass destruction too. Just stick to the land battlles one vs one, group vs group, heroe vs heroe, company vs company, company plus heroes vs company plus heroes. Quantities should be relatively equal on both sides. Don´t forget that Jedis would certainly addapt guerrilla tactics and act stealthier than ultramarines. And as we all know, guerrilla tactics won many wars.

Edited March 24, 2012 by Ivanblood

[Guildrum]

I am pretty sure lightsabers can cut through sawswords, armor, and electricity can shut down their suits. If not, a large force push into a canyon with their sawswords all in a jumple, cutting each other midair would end the fight rather quickly. Heck, just mind trick all of them to kill each other!

[Ivanblood]

I am pretty sure lightsabers can cut through sawswords, armor, and electricity can shut down their suits. If not, a large force push into a canyon with their sawswords all in a jumple, cutting each other midair would end the fight rather quickly. Heck, just mind trick all of them to kill each other!

 

It´s not so simple. Ultramarines have wizzards who can help them to counteract jedi´s abilities. Saw swords can cut through any material too. Besides at long distance, ultramarines have advantage. While jedis with their lightsabers will be running against ultramaries they will riddle them with blaster miniguns. And blaster minigun is not "pew pew", it stops hords of orks. In close combat, an ultramarine can crush a jedi´s skull with a simple squeeze of his hand.

Edited March 23, 2012 by Ivanblood

[VanorDM]

They're chainswords.

 

And quite frankly a company of Ultras would destroy pretty much any amount of sith or jedi thrown at them.

 

Their armor would likely be able to withstand light sabers, at least for a time. Bolts could not be deflected by a light saber without causing harm to the force user anyway, sense they are explosive rounds.

 

Librarians could massive damage as well. Then there's things like multimeltas, missile launchers, flamers/heavy flamers, power weapons, ect...

 

Finally we start throwing Vindicators, predators and whirlwinds into mix.

[Mimirz]

It´s not so simple. Ultramarines have wizzards. Saw swords can cut through any material too. Besides at long distance, ultramarines have advantage. While jedis with their lightsabers will be running against ultramaries they will riddle them with blaster miniguns. And blaster minigun is not "pew pew", it stops hords of orks. In close combat, an ultramarine can crush a jedi´s skull with a simple squeeze of his hand.

 

Yeah, but a Jedi can sense or see what is going to happen. so they seem to have incredible reflexes. Also they can pull marines towards them or even pull their weapons out of their hands. Also you can't know if the wizards can counter a Jedis force powers

[Ivanblood]

Yeah, but a Jedi can sense or see what is going to happen. so they seem to have incredible reflexes. Also they can pull marines towards them or even pull their weapons out of their hands. Also you can't know if the wizards can counter a Jedis force powers

 

To pull their weapons or use their mental abilities jedis need to be close enough, like some 4 meters. And don´t forget, some ultramarines have jet packs. They would fall from the sky so no jedi would have time to use any of their abilities. If an ultramarine would land over jedi, he would litterally broke him with his weight.

Edited March 23, 2012 by Ivanblood

[Unutterable]

It is generally accepted that aoe tends to screw jedi over, and barring their melee weapons the space marines weapons are all aoe or explosive in some way.

 

The ceramite and other materials used in SM armor has been demonstrated (in canon and novels and in game rules) to be pretty much be proof against most sidearms, generally requiring an antitank rank to guarantee a kill.

 

Also the 40k Exterminatus has a massive track record compared to the Death Star, so failing all else no one would escape the battlefield alive, and the Imperium accepts the scorched-earth policy when it comes to denying their opponents.

[Ivanblood]

Besides ultramarines bolts can not be deflected by lightsabers. They can be intercepted and fused. And some ultramarines have shotguns. How you would deflect this. Edited March 23, 2012 by Ivanblood

[Rayla_Felana]

40k is literally war and nothing else, no other fictional universe has the same intensity of battle, Jedi and/or Sith would be a vacation compared to their regular opponents.

[TarlSS]

The imperium has no hyperdrive technology. Republic forces could simply attack undefended planets with impunity and jump out without retaliation. They have no planetary shields either. A hyperspace fleet could jump into the sol system, bombard earth with asteroids, then jump to mars and then repeat while imperial crusiers take hours to reposition. Also it would take centuries for reionforcements to arrive...i think entire galactic armies have been mobilized in as little as two years in star wars

[Wolfninjajedi]

Can we please stop these threads? For several reasons really.

 

1. They are not interesting.

 

2. One side is always favored over the other, majority of the time.

 

3. Technology is too different, to where we wouldn't know how or even if they affect one another.

 

4. Crossover battles just won't fit, if your gonna do a battle you need to do it within the universe so that everything is equal. Even then you need to have the opponents or factions, in equal strength or ability to make it interesting.

Edited March 23, 2012 by Wolfninjajedi

[Kilikaa]

To pull their weapons or use their mental abilities jedis need to be close enough, like some 4 meters. And don´t forget, some ultramarines have jet packs. They would fall from the sky so no jedi would have time to use any of their abilities. If an ultramarine would land over jedi, he would litterally broke him with his weight.

 

Jedi can be much further away than 4 meters while using their Force abilities. Jedi would also sense the air drop and be prepared. Both of these factors would allow Jedi to either rip the weapons right out of the Marines hands or simply cause them to malfunction. And the jetpacks...those can be detonated using Force powers.

 

There is also the fact that Jedi will use ranged weapons of their own. With the Force on their side they are deadly accurate. Don't restrict the Force users to just their sabers, you are trying to stack the deck against them otherwise. Since this is an opinion thread...Force Users for the win.

[Rayla_Felana]

 

Jedi can be much further away than 4 meters while using their Force abilities. Jedi would also sense the air drop and be prepared. Both of these factors would allow Jedi to either rip the weapons right out of the Marines hands or simply cause them to malfunction. And the jetpacks...those can be detonated using Force powers.

 

There is also the fact that Jedi will use ranged weapons of their own. With the Force on their side they are deadly accurate. Don't restrict the Force users to just their sabers, you are trying to stack the deck against them otherwise. Since this is an opinion thread...Force Users for the win.

 

Psyker powers > The Force.

[Kilikaa]

Psyker powers > The Force.

 

Like I said, it's all opinion I could say that Asari Biotic powers are greater than all. I would love to see an Asari commando fight a Jedi.

[Kirbycollin]

They're chainswords.

 

And quite frankly a company of Ultras would destroy pretty much any amount of sith or jedi thrown at them.

 

Their armor would likely be able to withstand light sabers, at least for a time. Bolts could not be deflected by a light saber without causing harm to the force user anyway, sense they are explosive rounds.

 

Librarians could massive damage as well. Then there's things like multimeltas, missile launchers, flamers/heavy flamers, power weapons, ect...

 

Finally we start throwing Vindicators, predators and whirlwinds into mix.

Bolters don't always have explosive rounds, theres alo kraken bolts, which are incredibly effective at penetrating armor, we also have my favourite type - the inferno bolts, these set the enemies on fire at a distance. All together, theres about 10 or so different variants of the standard bolt ammunition, all for different situations.

 

 

 

Jedi can be much further away than 4 meters while using their Force abilities. Jedi would also sense the air drop and be prepared. Both of these factors would allow Jedi to either rip the weapons right out of the Marines hands or simply cause them to malfunction. And the jetpacks...those can be detonated using Force powers.

 

There is also the fact that Jedi will use ranged weapons of their own. With the Force on their side they are deadly accurate. Don't restrict the Force users to just their sabers, you are trying to stack the deck against them otherwise. Since this is an opinion thread...Force Users for the win.

 

 

In the end, ultramarines win because it is afterall also a numbers game, the Ultramarines have roughly around 1,000 marines within the chapter, and this is not including the sheer amount of ordnance they have to bear. If the ultramarines were to lose the fight on the ground, they could simply retreat and bombard the targets from orbit - something similar to this is standard to pre-heresy space marine invasions, they would bombard key targets on the planet before landing. Even if the jedi were able to sense the airdrop, they would be unable to prevent it as it is nearly impossible to shoot down every single drop pod that is launched.

 

I'd say that Ultramarines win, Jedi are vastly outnumbered and lack the technology to even come close to defeating the Ultramarines, seeing as the Ultramarines could just destroy the world if they feel that their is no chance of them recapturing it.

[Ivanblood]

The imperium has no hyperdrive technology. Republic forces could simply attack undefended planets with impunity and jump out without retaliation. They have no planetary shields either. A hyperspace fleet could jump into the sol system, bombard earth with asteroids, then jump to mars and then repeat while imperial crusiers take hours to reposition. Also it would take centuries for reionforcements to arrive...i think entire galactic armies have been mobilized in as little as two years in star wars

 

Hmmmmmmm. With this I actually....agree. The Imperiums would certainly loose a space battle. Besides the Jedi can become one with the ship.

 

A hyperspace fleet could jump into the sol system, bombard earth with asteroids, then jump to mars and then repeat while imperial crusiers take hours to reposition.

 

That wouldn´t matter. Imperium counts on thousands of worlds. Some destroyed planets wouldn´t be decesive.

 

But certainly Republic/Empire would beat Imperium in a space combat.

 

The imperium has no hyperdrive technology.

 

Nop. They have. But Imperium ships are big and lacks manoeuvrability.

Edited March 23, 2012 by Ivanblood

[Kilikaa]

Bolters don't always have explosive rounds, theres alo kraken bolts, which are incredibly effective at penetrating armor, we also have my favourite type - the inferno bolts, these set the enemies on fire at a distance. All together, theres about 10 or so different variants of the standard bolt ammunition, all for different situations.

 

 

 

 

 

In the end, ultramarines win because it is afterall also a numbers game, the Ultramarines have roughly around 1,000 marines within the chapter, and this is not including the sheer amount of ordnance they have to bear. If the ultramarines were to lose the fight on the ground, they could simply retreat and bombard the targets from orbit - something similar to this is standard to pre-heresy space marine invasions, they would bombard key targets on the planet before landing. Even if the jedi were able to sense the airdrop, they would be unable to prevent it as it is nearly impossible to shoot down every single drop pod that is launched.

 

I'd say that Ultramarines win, Jedi are vastly outnumbered and lack the technology to even come close to defeating the Ultramarines, seeing as the Ultramarines could just destroy the world if they feel that their is no chance of them recapturing it.

 

How are the Jedi AND Sith outnumbered, exactly? If you go by pre-Ruusan Old Republic numbers then there are literally tens of thousands on both sides. Factor in their respective sides and the whole "space bombardment" thing is negated. Besides, the OP asked about a ground battle. One on one, marine vs Force user the Force user wins, in my OPINION. that's all this is, Opinion. There are zero facts to support either side.

[Rayla_Felana]

Like I said, it's all opinion I could say that Asari Biotic powers are greater than all. I would love to see an Asari commando fight a Jedi.

 

I am arguing facts, Basic Psyker Powers have demonstratively proven to knock basic force abilities out of the park, each higher level we go, the even larger the gap gets in power, put Grand Master Skywalker against the God Emperor of Mankind(pre-heresy) and see what happens.

[Psychokam]

How are the Jedi AND Sith outnumbered, exactly? If you go by pre-Ruusan Old Republic numbers then there are literally tens of thousands on both sides. Factor in their respective sides and the whole "space bombardment" thing is negated. Besides, the OP asked about a ground battle. One on one, marine vs Force user the Force user wins, in my OPINION. that's all this is, Opinion. There are zero facts to support either side.

 

Expect for the fact that each one of the Space Marines Cruisier has something that is called Exterminatus weapon which can crack planet in half. You are talking firepower equal to Death Star on each of the Cruisiers. So even tho they are slow, they can strike and destroy entire planets if they feel like it.

 

Lets talk about ground forces then: Sheer numbers of space marines would crush any side in SWTOR universe. Remember Terra conquest from the first book ? Titans anyone ? Nor Empire or Republic has something to counter that ? and yes when empire of man comes in they deploy not 1 but many more of those.

 

I rest my case.

[Ivanblood]

One on one, marine vs Force user the Force user wins, in my OPINION.

 

At close range, yes.

 

At long rage, Jedi squarely looses. And shall not say that jedi can manipulate ultramarine´s mind from 500 feets. Maybe if he gets close enoungh. I didn´t see any long distance manipulation in books or movies. Besides mind control is not absolute. Ultramarines have a high willpower to resist or not to fall completely. Jedi would be able stagger the ultramarine but would be unable to take the control over him.

Lets remember that Jedis can control only low intelect creatures like animals. To control a marine of high will power would be needed a true master of force

Edited March 23, 2012 by Ivanblood

[Rayla_Felana]

The imperium has no hyperdrive technology. Republic forces could simply attack undefended planets with impunity and jump out without retaliation. They have no planetary shields either. A hyperspace fleet could jump into the sol system, bombard earth with asteroids, then jump to mars and then repeat while imperial crusiers take hours to reposition. Also it would take centuries for reionforcements to arrive...i think entire galactic armies have been mobilized in as little as two years in star wars

 

Yes they do.

 

The Imperium wouldn't care, they lose on average 65 planets a day and could care less.

 

Yes they do, they have used them before, in many battles.

 

LOL I would like to see them attack Terra, that would last a whole length of a second before being turned into dust by the ridiculous defenses Terra has, not to mention the amount of Emperor class ships defending the system, the amount of Nova cannons would obliterate anything that tried such an attack, only once was an attack on terra semi-successful and that was the Horus Heresy, Horus' forces > Anything Star Wars has, seriously Horus' forces were immense in scale and firepower.

Edited March 23, 2012 by Rayla_Felana

[Ivanblood]

Lets talk about ground forces then: Sheer numbers of space marines would crush any side in SWTOR universe. Remember Terra conquest from the first book ? Titans anyone ? Nor Empire or Republic has something to counter that ? and yes when empire of man comes in they deploy not 1 but many more of those.

 

I rest my case.

 

I am not agree with this. Sheer numbers ? Jedi wouldn´t fight alone in that case, they have an army of millions to back them up. Besides you forget droids. They are perfect for a suicide overwhelming attacks.

 

If the Republic mobilize their whole army the fight would be quite deadly for both sides. No instant wins.

Edited March 23, 2012 by Ivanblood

[Pantheros]

An impossible comparison to make, the two universes operate under completely different rules and on completely different scales.

[ToMyMa]

Force crush, force storm. Just saying...........

[Kilikaa]

I am arguing facts, Basic Psyker Powers have demonstratively proven to knock basic force abilities out of the park, each higher level we go, the even larger the gap gets in power, put Grand Master Skywalker against the God Emperor of Mankind(pre-heresy) and see what happens.

 

Once again, there is no basis in FACT here. This is purely a "what-if" thread based solely on OPINION. Force users have never gone up against these Psyker users/Marines and never will. W40K is a game that is based on an entirely differant universe, as has been pointed out already. We can present our cases but there is NOTHING to prove one is superior to the other. As such I stand by my opinion, Force Users and their respective allies win. I respect your opinion but to say you are talking facts is BS. Therre are no facts to back your opinion and none to back mine.