drakedge Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Bioware just copied much of World of Warcraft in the hopes of taking a cut of their pie. Things all good MMOs never had complaints about: -Appearance Tab -Fishing (non combat based time sink) -Cooking (non combat based time sink) -The ability to make fun of it's self (fish weapons, odd clothing, lots of easter eggs, useless but funny trinkets). TOR is like a teenager copying the cool kid in highschool without really understanding why the cool kid is popular to begin with. Because we all know that wow had an appearance tab... oh wait no it didn't We all know that everyone went on there to fish and cook rather than pvp and raid... cmon now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strangefate Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 (edited) Because we all know that wow had an appearance tab... oh wait no it didn't We all know that everyone went on there to fish and cook rather than pvp and raid... cmon now. I think what he's trying to say is that WoW gave you (sometimes funny) things to do beyond pvp and raid. Even collecting crafting resources could be seen as something. And yes, I think enough people enjoyed participating in the fishing contests etc. Things like that give some people a reason to travel around the world maps. In any case, it used to be funny to see a giant Orc with epic armor peacefully fishing. It's all trivial stuff, but in TOR, you do your raid and dailies and you have literally nothing to do other than to click on your companions to get resources for you and log off. Even an arcade machine in the fleet with an old wireframes Tie fighter game (like in the 80s ?) as a mini game in game that remembers your hiscores would give people reason to be glued to it, make bets, contests and brag about their scores. Its the small things that make the world go round, and the same applies to MMOs. Edited March 23, 2012 by Strangefate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kubernetic Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Personally I am tired of their "we know better attitude". This is your first AAA mmo, it will be your last if you don't listen to your fans. I am trying to like the game, even force myself to play, but with the incoming patch why bother? And the fans (who have never even built their first AAA mmo yet) know... what... exactly? LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illgot Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 (edited) Because we all know that wow had an appearance tab... oh wait no it didn't We all know that everyone went on there to fish and cook rather than pvp and raid... cmon now. "Things all good MMOs never had complaints about:" Reading Comprehension please. Fun things to do in between the serious things like raiding and PvP. These things do not exist in TOR. Blizzard finally caved into the appearance tab after multiple 500 page requests were locked and closed. Years later and everyone enjoys the appearance tab. It gives people another non-combative task to play with... collecting and farming gear strickly for appearances. With the current Orange Mod System, the same thing will never happen. People will not chase more than 1-2 outfits and very very few people will ever unplug their mods and replace them more than once due to the high cost and difficulty of obtaining end game gear. Again, Bioware does not get why the appearance tab works, instead they just try and copy something without understanding. learn to read and learn to comprehend what you read Edited March 23, 2012 by illgot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vraesh Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 No. The vast majority of people complaining are the people who never intended to stay with the game anyway. A big chunk of those are the PvP crowd causing trouble until GW2 comes out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarikLaw Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Bioware just copied much of World of Warcraft in the hopes of taking a cut of their pie. Things all good MMOs never had complaints about: -Appearance Tab -Fishing (non combat based time sink) -Cooking (non combat based time sink) -The ability to make fun of it's self (fish weapons, odd clothing, lots of easter eggs, useless but funny trinkets). TOR is like a teenager copying the cool kid in highschool without really understanding why the cool kid is popular to begin with. Then how about you cancel your subscription, stop QQing on the SWTOR forums, and go back to playing WoW? Also yeah, it's so bad for Bioware to base their game off of a model that is sound and is generally accepted as the best. *sarcasm off* Seriously, do you even understand what business is? Look at how often taking risks pays off in MMOs (trick question, it has never paid off to-date). Also, since when does WoW have Advanced Classes? Since when do they have anything even remotely resembling the Legacy System? Since when do they have character-level story driven content? Since when was WoW fully voice acted? I can keep going here if you want me to. Also, you know that nice shiny new system that WoW introduced called Transmogrify? Blizz never cared about character customization (players had been barking up that tree for years now) until SWTOR showed that they did, upon which Blizz rushed out the feature (which is and feels like a half-baked version of what SWTOR does). So yes, please kindly just go back to playing WoW if you don't like SWTOR and stop wasting our time with such uneducated nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommanderFrog Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 I read this recently & I wondered about the massive number of complaints that SWTOR has suffered & then I tried to compare those numbers of complaints to the miniscule number of complaints Mass Effect 3 has had in comparison & i wondered why Ray would jump to defend Mass Effect 3 so quickly yet remain quiet on SWTOR. I mean really, weren't we complaining loudly enough about the quality of the endings of the 8, 8, 8 class stories here in SWTOR too? Do you all think that an apology is entirely unnecessary or not? Actually, 16 Light side/dark side doubles the number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenzali Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 The MMO genre is pretty much the only genre of gaming that 100% requires that you listen to all community feedback, and not have a "this is our game we know better than you" attitude. Quite the contrary in fact. I'd argue that MMO's are the only genre where you should not listen to your fans. The fans don't know what they want. They're also the most demanding, entitled, and narcissistic bunch. Take a certain not-to-be named MMO for example. Community whines that it's too difficult. Content gets dumbed down so that the end boss of the expansion is killed by all players within 2 weeks. Community whines that there isn't enough to do. Pump out more low quality, easy content ad infinitum and repeat the cycle. I hope BioWare doesn't listen to a word that all these people who think they know what they want talk about so loudly on the forums. MMO endgames are about the carrot on the stick. Inevitably, the players whine to be given the carrot and you know the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TKMaster Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Personally I am tired of their "we know better attitude". This is your first AAA mmo, it will be your last if you don't listen to your fans. I am trying to like the game, even force myself to play, but with the incoming patch why bother? You must be new to the genre, welcome. I encourge you to scan the suggestion forums and see just what those amazingly insightfull and articulate "fans" are suggesting. Oh and yes, 80% of the playerbase is seemingly mentaly hadicapped wich you've learned if you read the suggestions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLonelyTusken Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 I don't see anything wrong with the ending of any stories in Swtor, and I haven't heard any complaints, so why should there be an apology like Roy's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommanderFrog Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 No. The vast majority of people complaining are the people who never intended to stay with the game anyway. A big chunk of those are the PvP crowd causing trouble until GW2 comes out. GW2 has no subscription, I am hardcore PVPer and ill be playing both GW2 and SWTOR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illgot Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 (edited) Then how about you cancel your subscription, stop QQing on the SWTOR forums, and go back to playing WoW? Also yeah, it's so bad for Bioware to base their game off of a model that is sound and is generally accepted as the best. *sarcasm off* Seriously, do you even understand what business is? Look at how often taking risks pays off in MMOs (trick question, it has never paid off to-date). Also, since when does WoW have Advanced Classes? Since when do they have anything even remotely resembling the Legacy System? Since when do they have character-level story driven content? Since when was WoW fully voice acted? I can keep going here if you want me to. Also, you know that nice shiny new system that WoW introduced called Transmogrify? Blizz never cared about character customization (players had been barking up that tree for years now) until SWTOR showed that they did, upon which Blizz rushed out the feature (which is and feels like a half-baked version of what SWTOR does). So yes, please kindly just go back to playing WoW if you don't like SWTOR and stop wasting our time with such uneducated nonsense. Blizzard created a fun game because you could do more than just Raid, PvP, and Dailies. There is nothing "fun" to do in TOR unless all you like do is Raid, PvP, and Dailies. There is no fishing or fun activity that does not involve killing something. There are no fun seasonal events which introduce fun events and collectables. There is no reason to run around collecting gear because it looks good and you want to use it. There is no "HAHA, that is Luigi and Mario!" "LOL! That's Links Sword!!" "LOL look at how that mobs death animation" "LOL that trinket just turned you into a random creature". There is no "fun" in TOR, there is only Raiding, PvP, and Dailies (there would be instances but my server is so low population I can't even find a tank, healer, and DPS to group with). World of Warcraft got boring and old with the elitism from the player base. I got bored of WoW after 4 years, after the second month in TOR I've already gotten bored. Edited March 23, 2012 by illgot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gokkus Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 I read this recently & I wondered about the massive number of complaints that SWTOR has suffered Please tell me you did not base this assumption on the forum posts... And Ive heard very little complaint about the way the class stories end. Except for some troopers maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TKMaster Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 (edited) Blizzard created a fun game because you could do more than just Raid, PvP, and Dailies. There is nothing "fun" to do in TOR unless all you do is like to Raid, PvP, and Dailies. There is no fishing or fun activity that does not involve killing something. There are no fun seasonal events which introduce fun events and collectables. There is no reason to run around collecting gear because it looks good and you want to use it. There is no "HAHA, that is Luigi and Mario!" "LOL! That's Links Sword!!" "LOL look at how that mobs death animation" "LOL that trinket just turned you into a random creature". There is no "fun" in TOR, there is only Raiding, PvP, and Dailies (there would be instances but my server is so low population I can't even find a tank, healer, and DPS to group with). World of Warcraft got boring and old with the elitism from the player base. I got bored of WoW after 4 years, after the second month in TOR I've already gotten bored. At 3 months into WoW it had hardly any of the moronic...i mean "fun" things you listed, Once it started adding the "fun" things it got to the point of absudity and became a childs game. Edited March 23, 2012 by TKMaster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asuka Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 (edited) no, an apology is not needed just quit the dismissive attitude ^This, the March Mayhem Developer's Showdown clearly shows there's mad love for BioWare. In the end, as far as ME3's ending goes, BW should have told people to have a Coke and a smile etc... Never listen to the forums because the forums are only a miniscule minority. To do it right you ask the entire player base for feedback. The SWTOR forums are horrendous as far as community goes. Edited March 23, 2012 by Asuka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hibillymayshere Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 I assure you, for every mistake they've made, they are currently paying dearly out of their pockets. If the current drop-out rate keeps up, this game will have been colossal failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ha Posted March 23, 2012 Author Share Posted March 23, 2012 "Things all good MMOs never had complaints about:" Reading Comprehension please. Fun things to do in between the serious things like raiding and PvP. These things do not exist in TOR. Blizzard finally caved into the appearance tab after multiple 500 page requests were locked and closed. Years later and everyone enjoys the appearance tab. It gives people another non-combative task to play with... collecting and farming gear strickly for appearances. With the current Orange Mod System, the same thing will never happen. People will not chase more than 1-2 outfits and very very few people will ever unplug their mods and replace them more than once due to the high cost and difficulty of obtaining end game gear. Again, Bioware does not get why the appearance tab works, instead they just try and copy something without understanding. learn to read and learn to comprehend what you read Hey man, I totally understand where you're coming from bro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asuka Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 current drop-out . Pure conjecture without hard undisputable evidence which only BioWare has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ha Posted March 23, 2012 Author Share Posted March 23, 2012 Please tell me you did not base this assumption on the forum posts... Don't worry buddy, not just the forum posts. I scanned the whole of the world wide web's posts, trillions, of billions of gagababazillions of bytes of datastreams....it took like 9 life times so I had to murder Dr Who & steal the Tardis & all..anyways, you get the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illgot Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 (edited) At 3 months into WoW it had hardly any of the moronic...i mean "fun" things you listed, Once it started adding the "fun" things it got to the point of absudity and became a childs game. The only thing WoW did not have at release was the appearance tab. I'm not saying Blizzard created the end all of games, but Blizzard did know how to have fun with their game and build it into it's game play. You may not have found fishing fun, or cooking, or seasonal events, or funny pets, or odd trinkets, or easter eggs, or... anything that had a sense of humor but it existed and people raved about it. If you make a game 100% serious it becomes 100% boring. Edited March 23, 2012 by illgot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenbruton Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 I read this recently & I wondered about the massive number of complaints that SWTOR has suffered & then I tried to compare those numbers of complaints to the miniscule number of complaints Mass Effect 3 has had in comparison & i wondered why Ray would jump to defend Mass Effect 3 so quickly yet remain quiet on SWTOR. I mean really, weren't we complaining loudly enough about the quality of the endings of the 8, 8, 8 class stories here in SWTOR too? Do you all think that an apology is entirely unnecessary or not? Why are the complaints about ME3 miniscule (in fact the ending was in stories across all the news sites for a week) and SWTOR complaints massive? Your comparing an MMO (forums full of complaitns in every one ever) versus a single player game. So in summary. Apology is uneccessary because MMO forums complain constantly anyway and it will do nothing . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ha Posted March 23, 2012 Author Share Posted March 23, 2012 (edited) Why are the complaints about ME3 miniscule (in fact the ending was in stories across all the news sites for a week) and SWTOR complaints massive? Your comparing an MMO (forums full of complaitns in every one ever) versus a single player game. So in summary. Apology is uneccessary because MMO forums complain constantly anyway and it will do nothing . I'm sorry. I was misinformed. I didn't know that ME3 sold 3.5mil units in 1st week compared to TOR's 1.7 mil subs ever. Money, cash rules everything around us. Edited March 23, 2012 by Tricky-Ha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gokkus Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Don't worry buddy, not just the forum posts. I scanned the whole of the world wide web's posts, trillions, of billions of gagababazillions of bytes of datastreams....it took like 9 life times so I had to murder Dr Who & steal the Tardis & all..anyways, you get the point. Soooo just the forum posts then, because that is pretty thin evidence to talk about massive complaints. What is it they should apologize for? I think the majority of players has a lot of fun with the game. Or should they apologize for not making the game so that everyone likes it? Can you imagine what would happen if a game would have to apologize for every bug that can be found? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draflorin Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 I mostly like the game but i really am beginning to Despise the company that made it. I don't like their Forum administration policies - consolidation of discussion and closing down others threads only serves their purpose while doesn't really help discussion at all - most posts after page thee of a hot topic are just lost in the mass of people posting a reaction to the OP, and it serves to minimise the footprint of rage on any given issue in the forums. I don't like the kick in the nuts that Oceanic and Euro players get every week at maintenance and patch time, sometimes twice a week. IT IS POSSIBLE to have separate regional server maintenance times and there are ways around the global patching issue - but I'd settle for just regional maintenance times. I don't like the canned customer service responses telling me the issue is closed and i still don't have a solution - and I didn't get the "Email" when they say the issue was resolved by email. yeah one of my characters has about 10 quests that cant be abandoned some that cant even be completed either and this has been reported time and time again. I am disappointed that BW did not have a transfer option ready for when the new oceanic servers were delivered. - thanks for the nice low ping servers though i do like those - but the net result has been a further fragmentation of my guild, apart form the 60% who left after getting bored at 50 half of my guild is still on old server and some log onto the new one. good job community building BW! champs!!! dont care about bugs and such they will be fixed in time and im stil enjoying my solo play for now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ha Posted March 23, 2012 Author Share Posted March 23, 2012 What is it they should apologize for? Good question. Glad you asked. Here my short list. 1) Un-Star War-sy looking armor 2) Too linear world design 3) Too Themepark MMO design 4) Lack of armor customization at launch 5) On-rails space combat Up until now, BioWare has done nothing but brag about how great those features are, but are they that great? I don't think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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