propht Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 ah, i see. a bad system should be kept in place because it was bad for someone else before. complete logic fail. and btw, not everybody had to go through that. lots of people exploited; or they got there first before lots of other people had the better gear; or before the even split the 50's and the 10-49's. so even your premise is flawed and not just your conclusion. if only rl was as ez and carebear as swtor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeopardydd Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 yeah those level 10s were tough when you were 40+ huh? and it was fun at the lower levels as well. I think the bolstering system worked well. much better than the expertise system, for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeopardydd Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 if only rl was as ez and carebear as swtor. the "carebear" is the one who needs a big gear advantage to pvp, not the one who wants it to be based on skill rather than gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeopardydd Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 can somebody please answer this: why do you need a big gear advantage to have fun at pvp, rather than having it based only on skill instead of gear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
propht Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 the "carebear" is the one who needs a big gear advantage to pvp, not the one who wants it to be based on skill rather than gear. i duno, sounds more like u want free gear without putting in the work to get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxdragonragexx Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 you understand this at this point though, we've been over and over it. i suspect you just want to keep your gear advantage over other people in pvp and are just giving other arguments some perfunctory lip service so you don't admit that you need a gear advantage to have fun in pvp. I can excel in a lot of pvp games actually. I can keybind and use 30 buttons, have all the software/hardware tools to make everything easier. I can play and have fun in any pvp games whether it is no gear or gear heavy. I'm just telling you that what you want is something that will never happen but go for it. You should try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kornbredd Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 C'mon guys, yeah its a pain when ur a "Fresh 50", but we all had to do it and honestly it doesnt take that long to get cent gear. cent gesr is at least a start and u can do some damage with cent. Just pay your dues. And for god sakes plz change your gear, mods enhancements, makes a world of difference! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeopardydd Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 i duno, sounds more like u want free gear without putting in the work to get it. then learn to read please. i want gear to not play a role in pvp (or at worst, only a small one). i want it to be skill. that's not "wanting free gear". i want gear out of the equasion for pvp warzones. meanwhile, people defending the expertise system want to have a big advantage rather than it being about skill instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodingo Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 can somebody please answer this: why do you need a big gear advantage to have fun at pvp, rather than having it based only on skill instead of gear? That really doesn't need to be answered. It's obvious they use gear as a crutch. I have yet to hear/read anything that proves otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seriasx Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) gear this, gear that. Let me make this perfectly clear for you guys who want gear progression in pvp, I dont care what my toon is wearing, I dont care if there is night and day in the game, I dont care if there is a purple hippopotomus sp? suit with black bunny ears and 2 forks as weapons, I dont care what my toon is wearing, gear does not interest me in the slightest when it comes to pvp. I dont want free gear, I want gear to play little or no part in deciding the outcome of what should be a challenging gameplay experience. I want the opponent I just killed to know that he was just outplayed and not out geared. I want to die to a better pvper because he countered my rotation so that I may work on it some more using trial and error. Before a WZ starts I want 8 players on each side and for no one to know whos going to win before the match starts, if you can give me that and have gear progression through actual winning and actual loss upon death then great. If you cant then remove gear progression from pvp because its getting in the way of the actual pvp. Edited March 22, 2012 by Seriasx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepilk Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) Heres what you do.. or at least what I did as I leveled up. Get a champion bag to stash in the bank. max out out merc tokens. go to the PVP weapons vendor, find a weapon with +25 expertise alongside the stat ofyour choice... repeat until youve bought 7 or so. (you can buy these pre-46) at level 45, take the enhancments out of those weapons, an dput them in your gear giving you +25 expertise per slot BEFORE you even get to the 50 bracket. Note that the weapons require level 46 to equip, but the mods inside them are strippable.useable at level 45. re-cap warzone tokens. At level 50, cash in your tokens for 5 more champion bags. Go to the temporary crystal vendor, buy a +41 expertise crystal (x2 if dual welding) and add it to your weapon, which already has a +25 expertise mod inside it. Do illum/belsavis dailies for a 51 hilt/barrel (x2 if duel weilding)... your weapon is now better than a centurian weapon. Spend your champion/centurian tokens.. if need be, swap out the enhanments with your existing expertise exhanment to double dip (in some pieces this might not be advisable depending on the stat swap) On my most recent character, I had around 350-400 expertise when I stepped into my first 50 bracket warzone. From there on up you should be able to hit the ground running well enough to grow out of that stuff and into the standard pvp gear. Its not battlemaster quality..but it should help you keep your head above water during the culture shock of changing brackets. Edited March 22, 2012 by thepilk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seriasx Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) So the arguments for pvp gear progression is that its quick and easy to do and replayability? Then I have to ask. Why have it in the first place if its so quick and easy and once people are fully geared they are leaving in droves? We would have alot more replayability if the content was actually challenging in the first place, best way to approach a 50/50 chance of winning or losing before the match starts with removing pvp gear from the equation. Edited March 22, 2012 by Seriasx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctournys Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) i had 6 bags ready when my alt got to level 50. I got 1 cent lightsaber (I could have gotten a Champ relic as well, but I waited for armor). that's in. from have 1000/1000 plus one bag in the cargo hold. for that, I had to a) research and plan ahead (which most people won't do and it's not reasonable to expect them to do it) and forgo a considerable amount of the late-level content that Bioware spent so much money on and that I would have liked to experience 9again, which many/most won't do and it's not reasonable to ask them to do). For all that I got, what, 1% from the expertise? are you fricking kidding me? that's really a reason to have a bad system? So because you made a completely terrible choice (Centurion Weapon - big commendation investment) - the system is bad? You could have instead bought (on day 1 - 6 stored bags + 8 more bags from daily/weekly) ear, 2x implants, and 2 set pieces. In every other slot, you could have had level 50 purples from daily quests - that you could have been doing since level 47. Problem isn't the system. not that it matters: the entire system is out the door as of 1.2 - continuining to complain about a system that is already confirmed on the way out is completely pointless. Youll be able to be lazy and step into a slightly-better-than-centurion blue set for just some credits. Edited March 22, 2012 by Noctournys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrovak Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 I died 16 times last WZ... and im a tank... DPS tore through me like tissue paper... Bioware should really find a way to integrate the new 50s into the current ones better. what is your set up? if yu a Ptech I can help yu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stratoforce Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 DPS still rip through BM geared tanks. Don't let anyone fool you. The lowest I ever crit on a tank was 2.9k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zbus Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 LOL! So what is true progression while making your character equal to new or fresh 50s? New title? New Mount? New Toys? After 3 months, there will be a new better title, new better mount, and new better toys. LOL. They are all a cycle. You still don't get it even if I repeat it over and over. More people play WoW pvp and like WoW PvP more than Warhammer, Rift, Planetside, Guild wars and etc. WoW isn't the best pvp. It isn't the most fun. But it is the most successful because it has a great gear progression. This game is the same as WoW. SWTOR IS A PVE GAME. It is a WOW clone. You said it yourself, WoW is the most successful. It is the reason why SWTOR will copy WoW. Why would SWTOR deviate from WoW especially when most MMO pvp doesn't make the same money as WoW? The reason WOW is successful is because they made the game work on everything from top end PC's to grandma's early 1990's IBM desk top. It really has little to do with PVE or PVP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxkane Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 (edited) DPS still rip through BM geared tanks. Don't let anyone fool you. The lowest I ever crit on a tank was 2.9k. That's because all the tiered dps armor sets have truck tons of accuracy which let's us by pass their defense chance and shields. I just finished leveling a Jugg Tank and in 5 hours of pvp I have him in full centurion will champ relics and champ boots. Personally I don't like the pvp in this game but I do like the look of Sith Warrior Centurion pvp armor. I also pvped during my leveling and hit level 50 at the end of Belsavis with valor rank 50 1 champ bag and max merc and warzone tokens. Getting pvp gear in this game pre 1.2 is exceedingly easy if you know what you're doing. In my first wz post 50. I was in full 124 rated armor and weapons and didn't notice any huge difference when being attack by Battle masters compared to when I got my centurion set. TL DR: lvl 49 Blues are ewww, get purples or prepare to fall on your face. Edited March 24, 2012 by Lxkane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seriasx Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 If you tell me the levels and gear score of the players in 10-49 so I know the correct bolster stat, i can tell you who will win also. Doubtful due to a lack of expertise and bloated stats in the 10-49 matches are much more back and forth with playing ability and group composition being more of a deciding factor, unlike the 50 bracket which comes down to gear > everything else. Levels in the 10-49 simply mean you have more buttons but since more than 95% of this games population cant handle using more than 4 buttons its moot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidichIorian Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 People are exaggurating the importance of gear and their own abilities. Granted that you won't out-dps a competent player in BM but if you die a lot it's because you don't know what you're doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zibit Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 People are exaggerating the importance of gear and their own abilities. Granted that you won't out-dps a competent player in BM but if you die a lot it's because you don't know what you're doing. Fixed. And agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeseblaster Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 (edited) Go to the Vangaurd forum and read the sticky from Taugrim.. Being a Tank means little in PVP, especially 50 PVP. The sticky I mentioned goes through the mechanics of Shield/Defense/Absorb and does a nice job explaining why in the PVP world you should be focusing more on DPS and not worrying about jacking up your Shield/Defense/Absorb beyond a certain point. Basically those stats for a trooper only defend agains 2 of the 4 types of damage you take. And in PVP you see alot more of those 2 types that armor doesn't mitigate very well. A change in playstyle will help.. Post 50 you really need to focus on rotation and how you fit into the overall arena. You won't be able to go mano a mano very easily. I love being a 50 and the 50 PVP... I haven't experienced that dramatic a decrease in my playing or deaths, and I only have half the Centurion set. Edited March 24, 2012 by Cheeseblaster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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