So being a new 50 is basically the worst thing ever.....

[MorgonKara]

lol

 

End game progression in this game is a joke whether PvP or PvE.

 

Being able to leap directly from hitting level 50 to getting Rakata drops the same *********** day isn't progression. Neither is it hard.

 

Yeah right, I guarantee not many people are doing that.

[Jeopardydd]

It's called progression and it's one of the features that separates a MMORPG from a MFPS. You either do what it takes to keep up with the big dogs or you stay on the porch with the puppies. In the case of SWTOR that means you need to get your lvl 50 PvP gear.

 

 

it's a bad model for "progression", because, by definition, they will need to keep adding better and better armor, making the gap worse and worse over time.

 

so that's not a good reason for the expertise system.

[Kuvox]

oh yeah, i forgot that you always get to choose who is hitting you and who you have to hit to further pvp objectives.

 

my mistake.

Next time, i'll just tell them "sorry, sir, but I am ungeared, so you shouldn't kill me."

 

yes, you have some influence on that, but certainly not much, unless you want to be standing around far from everything not doing anything, in which case it's still no fun and you are hurting your team.

 

on another note, how come no matter what the complaint people have about a game, legitimate or not, it always gets met with "L2P"? "L2P" is not a reason for bad game design.

 

I agree. As a full BM healing Sage it is a nightmare trying to heal fresh 50s. Often I can't even get the soon-to-be-gone 1.4s deliverance cast off on them before they're gone.

 

I can't tell you how many new 50s play 2 or 3 PVP games and are never seen again.

 

While I agree that there should be some "paying your dues" aspect to PVP I also know that the gear difference often really hurts the team I'm on.

[TheronFett]

Yes, it's difficult as a fresh 50 PvPer. Pay your dues and either stick with it, or stay on the porch.

 

Before the PvP brackets, a lot of us had to deal with the exploiters who got BM gear very early on and gave definition to the term faceroll. Now that we've all caught up, those guys are quitting left and right because they're crappy players can't work the gear gap anymore.

 

Take your lumps, get your gear, work as a team, and your day will come.

[VoidJustice]

OP's signature - "I'm the closest thing there is to the Grim Reaper... If i have a contract on you.. Your time has come"

 

dear op please tell me your not a missle spammer...

 

Ohhhhhhhhhhhh Myyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

 

/facepalm

Edited March 22, 2012 by VoidJustice

[MorgonKara]

it's a bad model for "progression", because, by definition, they will need to keep adding better and better armor, making the gap worse and worse over time.

 

so that's not a good reason for the expertise system.

 

So you say, but it is the reason nonetheless. Expertise rewards players that spend time PvPing.

[Jeopardydd]

So you say, but it is the reason nonetheless. Expertise rewards players that spend time PvPing.

 

 

do you agree that if the reason people pvp is to get better gear, that Bioware will jsut need to keep adding better and better gear?

 

do you also agree that that means that the gap will continue to get even bigger over time?

[SWImara]

1.2 will fix your varied woes. That being said the transition to 50 is already seriously no big deal if you prepare for it. My Commando has 500 expertise now and only one piece of Champion gear, all of the rest is still Centurion. 1000 Warzone/Mercenary +1 Bag + 25Expertise mods(x6)=150 Expertise + anything that comes from your initial 6 Champion bags (the 150 expertise stacks with everything you earn on Centurion/Champion gear).

 

Anyway in the future this will be a non-issue

[Celebrus]

do you agree that if the reason people pvp is to get better gear, that Bioware will jsut need to keep adding better and better gear?

 

do you also agree that that means that the gap will continue to get even bigger over time?

 

No, because as they add each tier, they make the last tier more accessible.

 

This means they can continue to add virtually nothing to the game while keeping your sub and dollars because you get to keep grinding the same 3-4 warzones for the next 12 months for a different set of gear everytime a soft reset hits.

 

It's a method of gear progression that blizzard perfected, and since we all know that BW is incapable of doing anything that blizz hasn't done, it's the only way they know how.

[xNonphixionx]

Honestly anyone that thinks pvp at 50 is 100% all about gear obviously has NO IDEA what they are talking about.

 

Obviously you cant expect to have a chance with quest greens and lvl 40 mods, It takes like a few days to get full Centurion gear THAT is all you need to compete with anyone in PVP. Battlemaster gear is NOT a win button. You just cant be bad if you are undergeared against a Battlemaster.

 

It's exactly the same as hard modes. I would not want a fresh 50 tank in lvl 40 gear and lvl 50 blue/green mods tanking for me. People need to take it onto themselves to use the GTN to optimize their gear as much as they can before expecting to compete.

 

Honestly...Most fresh 50's ding 50 and hop into a 50 warzone wearing level 40 gear then axt surprised when they get stomped by people in lvl 50 gear.

Edited March 22, 2012 by xNonphixionx

[Jeopardydd]

No, because as they add each tier, they make the last tier more accessible.

 

This means they can continue to add virtually nothing to the game while keeping your sub and dollars because you get to keep grinding the same 3-4 warzones for the next 12 months for a different set of gear everytime a soft reset hits.

 

It's a method of gear progression that blizzard perfected, and since we all know that BW is incapable of doing anything that blizz hasn't done, it's the only way they know how.

 

well that's not "progression" then.

 

if you keep getting gear that gives the same exact advantage over the ungeared, that's not "progression". it's grinding for grinding's sake.

[MartyrLXXVII]

It's called progression and it's one of the features that separates a MMORPG from a MFPS. You either do what it takes to keep up with the big dogs or you stay on the porch with the puppies. In the case of SWTOR that means you need to get your lvl 50 PvP gear.

 

Fine fine, whatever have your progression. But a 'progression' of 100-200% between fresh 50 and BM its stupid.

[Jeopardydd]

Honestly anyone that thinks pvp at 50 is all about gear obviously has NO IDEA what they are talking about.

 

It takes like a few days to get full Centurion gear THAT is all you need to compete with anyone in PVP. Battlemaster gear is NOT a win button. You just cant be bad if you are undergeared against a Battlemaster.

 

 

1) it takes longer than a few days for the vast majority of players to get full cent (unless you have all day every day to play and are Imperial and win most of the time due to your teammates).

 

2) saying "it's not horrible for long" is NOT a reason to have a system where it's horrible.

 

3) there's no "i win" button, but there's a huge advantage to having BM gear against the lesser-geared.

Edited March 22, 2012 by Jeopardydd

[Seriasx]

One of many reasons why gear progression just doesnt work in pvp as its counter to the entire point of pvp in the first place, competitive gameplay.

[Jeopardydd]

One of many reasons why gear progression just doesnt work in pvp as its counter to the entire point of pvp in the first place, competitive gameplay.

 

 

 

bingo!

[SWImara]

1) it takes longer than a few days for the vast majority of players to get full cent (unless you have all day every day to play and are Imperial and win most of the time due to your teammates).

Very true, but it only takes a few sessions of warzones. I don't get much time at all to play, so it took me about 2 weeks to get full Centurion, that being said when you play that little you understand that your pace will be slower than others. The problem people have at 50 at the moment is that the game does a /terrible/ job of preparing players with information for the transition. I was fine due to getting my 1000/1000 comms + 1 champ bag + 150Expertise, but I only knew to do that because I paid attention and talked to friends.

 

2) saying "it's not horrible for long" is NOT a reason to have a system where it's horrible.

Agreed, but there will always be progression. Imo any gear differences in PvP should only be like the Champion-Battlemaster difference. A competent player definitely can best someone in better gear so long as the advantage isn't overwhelming. Someone coming into their first warzone at 50 with 0 expertise and blue/green gear is going to get murdalized.

 

3) there's no "i win" button, but there's a huge advantage to having BM gear against the lesser-geared.

Quite true.

[xdoctor]

do you agree that if the reason people pvp is to get better gear, that Bioware will jsut need to keep adding better and better gear?

 

do you also agree that that means that the gap will continue to get even bigger over time?

 

Yes of course. Unless they put another reason to do lvl 50 pvp, besides gear, then that's exactly what's in the future.

[Arrys]

1) it takes longer than a few days for the vast majority of players to get full cent (unless you have all day every day to play and are Imperial and win most of the time due to your teammates).

 

2) saying "it's not horrible for long" is NOT a reason to have a system where it's horrible.

 

3) there's no "i win" button, but there's a huge advantage to having BM gear against the lesser-geared.

 

According to the SEC release the average player plays 4 hours at a sitting. Now to finish your daily PvP quests you need 3 WZ wins and 30 armament credits. Getting the armament credits is 10 WZ ques in which your teams need a 33% win percentage to get your WZ daily. I personally like to que from Ilum and pick up between spawns but worst case 10 WZ's.

 

Your Weekly WZ requires 9 wins - 3 dailies, your weekly armaments requires 5 dailies.

 

If you are on a decent population server 10 WZ runs happens in between the 2-3 hour mark.

 

An average player that plays at least 3 days a week will gear up well, 5 days even better if their playtime is dedicated to PvP.

 

It's less how much you play but how frequently that determines gear up time.

[Jeopardydd]

Yes of course. Unless they put another reason to do lvl 50 pvp, besides gear, then that's exactly what's in the future.

 

 

 

which is why there should be a different reason to do pvp.

 

I'm sure all you smart people can come up with other reasons, but my personal favorite would be that it's fun (which the gear imbalance hurts, imo, both for my fresh level 50 alt I got today, or my well-geared primary)

[Slurmez]

I died 16 times last WZ... and im a tank... DPS tore through me like tissue paper... Bioware should really find a way to integrate the new 50s into the current ones better.

 

play for a day and enjoy your shiney centurion gear, really it doesnt take long for the pain to go away and in a few weeks you will be rocking battlemaster even without 1.2s freebies

 

New 50 is especially hard on melee and tanks as rdps and healers can try to stand back a bit to contribute, just ride out the pain, it doesnt last too long

[Jeopardydd]

play for a day and enjoy your shiney centurion gear, really it doesnt take long for the pain to go away and in a few weeks you will be rocking battlemaster even without 1.2s freebies

 

New 50 is especially hard on melee and tanks as rdps and healers can try to stand back a bit to contribute, just ride out the pain, it doesnt last too long

 

once again:

 

besides the fact that you are quite wrong re: one day for your cent gear....the larger point remains that saying that "it doesn't take long" is NOT, i repeat, NOT a reason for "this system is the right system".

[MartyrLXXVII]

once again:

 

besides the fact that you are quite wrong re: one day for your cent gear....the larger point remains that saying that "it doesn't take long" is NOT, i repeat, NOT a reason for "this system is the right system".

 

Lol, nice to see we agree in this thread.

[MorgonKara]

Fine fine, whatever have your progression. But a 'progression' of 100-200% between fresh 50 and BM its stupid.

 

That's not even close to accurate.

 

SWTOR is a gear-based game. If you're lvl 50 in anything less than purple gear then you just aren't trying. The gap is probably closer to ~15% assuming the fresh lvl 50 isn't running around in scrub greens or blues.

[kenzeil]

Fresh 50 is like being level 10 again in 10-49.

[Seriasx]

Not even close, I was able to walk over plays at level 10 with little trouble while geared morons can kill me at 50 by pecking at 1 through 4 at random.

 

Everyone whos seen it and experienced it knows how big of an advantage it is and the only ones who want to keep it like this are no lifers who are afraid to ride their personal experience towards winning, they want superior gear as well.