Cernow Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 There's nothing new about it, they are telling their story, it's their cannon. So why don't they apply the same "storytelling with consequences" principles to SWTOR as they do to their single player titles? The "but it's a MMO" argument doesn't hold up. The class storylines are all solo content. The multiplayer part of SWTOR doesn't enter into the class storylines which proceed on their own solo course. Seems to me that storyline consequences have mostly been stripped out of SWTOR probably because there is no way to save/reload the game and they are scared of players being unhappy with their choices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dezzi Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) /Signed. Seriously, if you like a game play it. If not, move on to something you like. This constant contrived whining is silly, tedious, and provides no constructive dialog. It's just whine bait. Take your own advice. Please. If you enjoy the game, great. Go play it. Those of us who enjoy it, but would like to see some changes or improvements are provided a place to voice our opinions. It would be nice to do so without being marginalized by you or anyone else. Every time you post, I can't help but see the irony in your choice of signature... Edited March 22, 2012 by Dezzi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyla Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 So the whole Ashley/Kaiden thing wasn't a choice that carried over... We're talking about Mass Effect, right? Yes it's carried over to ME2 but what is the consequence ? None, in each case you get the same outcome which has zero impact on the gameplay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dezzi Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) Yes it's carried over to ME2 but what is the consequence ? None, in each case you get the same outcome which has zero impact on the gameplay. What's the consequence? A character is missing for the entire rest of the game, and your chance to engage in dialogue with them or even romance them is gone. And it's a consequence because you do miss out on those interactions depending on who lives and who dies. It's not that the character was written out of the story, because you can go back and make a different choice which has a completely different impact on your experience through the next two games! That's consequence. That's interactivity. That's storytelling. Edited March 22, 2012 by Dezzi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cernow Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) Yes it's carried over to ME2 but what is the consequence ? None, in each case you get the same outcome which has zero impact on the gameplay. Not true. There are consequences which impact on gameplay. So being forced to choose between two companions, only one of whom you can save, doesn't impact on gameplay? Kaiden is one example. There's also the climax of ME2 where you need to send one companion to an almost certain death entering a pipe, though there is a chance they might survive if you chose certain companions who are suited to the task. You can also lose mutliple companions in the climax if you play badly or make the wrong decisions. You can lose companions at several places in the ME series. When they are gone you no longer have access to their special abilities and plotlines. This DOES impact gameplay. Now imagine in SWTOR if you actually had to choose between two of your companions? Edited March 22, 2012 by Cernow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azumio Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Their not even good at stories anymore. Look at the difference between Mass Effect 1 and Mass Effect 2 and 3. Now, obviously one can say that drop-off is entirely due to Drew leaving (Mac Walters, a horrible writer, took over from ME2 on-wards). I mean, they scrapped the original story basically, written by Drew Karpyshyn and went with the garbage that was heavily written by Mac Walters (ME2 and now ME3). Drew's story was probably to complicated for EA. Probably the reason he left Bioware after doing this garbage game. Hopefully he pops up at CDProjectRed or Rocksteady. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jett-Rinn Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I find it more than a bit Obtuse that instead of saying: Hey this isn't my type of MMO some people are demanding that BioWare drastically change what their MMO is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancrizans Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Well OP, the thing is there are a lot of you guys playing MMOs these days who really don't get what MMOs are all about. Maybe you started playing WoW and were convinced that Blizzard's method of presenting the MMO were the norm, but that isn't the case. The primary function of an MMO is to provide an interesting virtual world...to allow people to use their imaginations to create characters that exist in that world, and yes to roleplay what their lives and adventures are like. See that is where the "RP" comes in "MMORPG". People who traditionally choose to play MMOs are people who are very self reliant and do not require a new raid released every month to keep them occupied...they do not care to grind through content, but to explore and savor the world the developers took a lot of time and care to create. All of this detail is lot on "hardcores" and "grinders" who are actually better served by other gaming genres. So the fact that people who got hooked on Blizzard's hodgepodge of an MMO(in which they deliberately corrupted the traditional MMO style and pace with aspects of other games to attract a wider audience) are now all wigged out and lost because Bioware is concentrating more on other parts of the game(honestly it isn't like they aren't rolling out more content than Blizzard did in the first 6 months of WoW either so...) is not an MMO flaw, it is a misunderstanding of what an MMO is and how to enjoy it by people used to Blizzard's "disposable" and fast paced but shallow playstyle. I personally can't get enough of this game. Just exploring the world and playing my character in it is enough for me, and I think the PvP is terrific(the combat is definitely a lot more exciting than World of Borecraft) and the Flashpoints and OPs are a ton of Star Wars fun(and more are coming in the near future). So I think you are misrepresenting the reality considerably when you say the story is supporting the MMO. While the story is very well done(of course always room for improvement), it is simply another element of the whole experience, one which adds depth and meaning to the overall experience of playing the game. If people stopped to enjoy this game for what it is instead of expecting WoW part 2(which a lot of people say it is and which is frankly total nonsense), they would find a really terrific and fun game, that simply is balanced and organized a bit differently than what they are used to, but is in no way inferior...in fact IMHO it is a far more enjoyable and immersive MMO experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonaiSanzer Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Actually they took the RPG out, you dont roleplay and create your character, you are told a story, Bioware claims that it is my story but it is not, its Biowares story. might as well never play a rpg again then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostvein Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I find it more than a bit Obtuse that instead of saying: Hey this isn't my type of MMO some people are demanding that BioWare drastically change what their MMO is. Well, here is the thing - Biowares PR group did an excellent job of marketing this to basically everyone. If I wanted, I could go back and find quotes and press releases that say SWToR has everything and anything you could possibly want. One quote that is particularity telling was something along the lines of "ToR will have every modern feature" The problem is, it doesn't, and some people feel let down by it. I (and many others before me) have accepted that this game won't be what I/we wanted. Others haven't gotten there yet. Meh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meldwyn Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 But the things is my choices in ME1 don't matter, you are still pushed to the same end and thoses little choices you made in ME1 that are taken into account in ME2 don't matter either. They sure do! and they have consequences for ME3 too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSPD Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 At the moment "story" is supporting the entire game. And I don't mean in a good way. "Endgame" and the state its in is barely ever mentioned on podcasts or by my friends. It's a painful and embarrassing subject like so many others we just don't want to mention. At the moment the only thing I really do "endgame" is alt's. I level through for class story then more or less dump them, much like a discarded comic. I'm just churning out alts as I go through BW's mmo story. But something is missing. I don't know if BW haven't left enough room for other peoples stories or what but this mmo is definitely starting to lack that certain something that makes mmo's a pleasure. After playing Swtor since launch my pleasure meter is at an all time low and I've filled my plate with lashings of story. Who else is already skipping story on their 15th alt? I have to say, I've played since launch, I never raced to 50 because I knew that endgame wasn't going to be that great. I made a million alts and now I spacebar through everything. In the beginning I thought the story was excellent but now I'm just burnt out. I don't want anymore cutscenes, I just want to race to get to the next level. The regular gameplay lacks something that the other games have. Overall I think it's the lack of community feeling. There is no community or MMO interaction. It's like playing a single player game with some multiplayer aspects (ie. warzone pvp). Im hoping that 1.2 will change a lot, but at this point I think it may be too little to late. In which case, I'll finish out my sub til May 15th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cernow Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) If people stopped to enjoy this game for what it is instead of expecting WoW part 2(which a lot of people say it is and which is frankly total nonsense), they would find a really terrific and fun game, that simply is balanced and organized a bit differently than what they are used to, but is in no way inferior...in fact IMHO it is a far more enjoyable and immersive MMO experience. I think it's fair to say looking through these forums that most players don't want this game to be a copy of WoW. That's why we're discussing how the storytelling can play an even stronger role, with more opportunities for roleplaying and consequences for decisions made etc. It appears to be Bioware that are pushing this game towards being "WoW In Space" not the players, because they (or their shareholders) are under the false assumption that to succeed you have to copy WoW. This becomes most apparent when you reach the endgame. Rather than emphasizing the storytelling and the lore and giving players more scope for roleplaying and character development (via some sandbox features), instead they are making the endgame into a carbon copy of WoW, full of daily grinds, a gear treadmill and repetitive instanced PvP. You only have to see the new endgame armour planned for 1.2, with designs that would fit much better into WoW than into a Star Wars game, to realise where things are heading. Yet if you read through these forums it's clear the majority of the players don't want a WoW In Space. But Bioware's shareholders and investors think is needed to retain subscribers. It's almost bait and switch how the game changes so radically from the story driven experience 1-49 and the WoW-style grind at 50. Edited March 22, 2012 by Cernow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ngamok Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 At the moment "story" is supporting the entire game. And I don't mean in a good way. "Endgame" and the state its in is barely ever mentioned on podcasts or by my friends. It's a painful and embarrassing subject like so many others we just don't want to mention. At the moment the only thing I really do "endgame" is alt's. I level through for class story then more or less dump them, much like a discarded comic. I'm just churning out alts as I go through BW's mmo story. But something is missing. I don't know if BW haven't left enough room for other peoples stories or what but this mmo is definitely starting to lack that certain something that makes mmo's a pleasure. After playing Swtor since launch my pleasure meter is at an all time low and I've filled my plate with lashings of story. Who else is already skipping story on their 15th alt? Not their fault you don't want to do operations or pvp which pretty much every MMO out there has that as end game with the exception of RIFT which has their 1 and 2 mans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I find it more than a bit Obtuse that instead of saying: Hey this isn't my type of MMO some people are demanding that BioWare drastically change what their MMO is. Yup. They are a very self involved and entitled crowd it seems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meldwyn Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Not their fault you don't want to do operations or pvp which pretty much every MMO out there has that as end game with the exception of RIFT which has their 1 and 2 mans. Rift has 1 and 2 man operations/dungeons and raids? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) Every time you post, I can't help but see the irony in your choice of signature... It's a mirror, so you are seeing your reflection. Edited March 22, 2012 by Andryah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Rift has 1 and 2 man operations/dungeons and raids? Yeah, they do. And they suck IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tahana Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Yeah, they do. And they suck IMO. Seconded.. All those in favor state so by saying I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jandi Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 They should totally scrap the game and redo it to please every possible person. Also, every discussion should have at least 10 different outcomes that all open up different planets, ships, gear, companions and story lines. For all 8 base classes... that lasts at least 300 hours. Also, you should be able to have babies, with wookiees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urael Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Who else is already skipping story on their 15th alt? I still like playing the game but, TBH I am getting sick of the cut scenes especially if I have done the quest before. I am now starting to tab thru content that I have not seen ( with the text turned on ... read faster than the voice actors can say). Now I am just min/maxing my companion faction with the "escape" key to see what the best options are to raise companion faction. I am not a "content locust" but some days I just want to get to "playing the game" (e.g. the combat (especially when I've had a preverbial bad day at work ) ). So you know I did this with the ME games also. Sometimes you want to be part of the action and not have to listen to someone elses "movie". Most of the time I don't feel like this is "my story" for any one of my particular characters. Meh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOGFelix Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) It is still very soon to tell. I give them credit for DARING to do what no other MMO has done; put back RPG into MMORPG. But a few promises have been broken. Non-linear questing isn't that non-linear, though there is some diversity. Of course having to deal with multiple branches is too much, so I understand. The possibility of companions backstabbing me. Is it possible or taken out?The leveling experience will not be the same once you roll a new alt. Well true for class stories, but the generic missions are still the same. So I'm not some fanboy that automatically thinks this MMO is perfect. It's more like I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. I am particularly impressed with social points. I leveled with someone at the start and it was fun watching each other's class stories. It was also fun participating in conversations. It didn't feel like 2 people doing 2 separate quests. It felt like 2 people being part of the same quest. And when you have a 4 people handing in the mission, hoho, it felt like 4 heroes who just defeated the evil enemy. I just wish that after clearing a hard mission, I can buy my 3 comrades a round of drinks at the cantina on a job well done. But it isn't possible. So a lot of potential is there. I guess the initial promises were too much to keep, but I give them A for effort. Well, for the Sith warrior... Quinn, the only companion you use after you get him, very much tries to stab you in the back. At first, I was pissed as he is my only healer, then I was even more upset that I could not kill him for his betrayal. Now I am stuck with him, its like being in a bad marriage. I cannot stand to use him now. At least let me make him be punished for his crime. /shudder /endrage Edited March 22, 2012 by TOGFelix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorellianWannabe Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 They sure do! and they have consequences for ME3 too. You mean which color to choose at the end? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieAlteHexe Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I think the OP's point is that you can't keep subs based on story alone. If the "Interlude" screen means what I think it means (e.g. more story) then yup, they can keep subs. I'll be more than happy to see what comes next for my characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarfux Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I hope you know its SWTOR not SWToR.... If you didn't know that, then know you do If you are doing it to get a rise out of people, stop it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts