Huttball is too class dependent

[Jeral_Kaide]

I have been effective in every class that I have played in Huttball. I have played an assassin, operative, mercenary, sentinel and gunslinger. It's all situational and how well you as a player adapt to the flow of the match. Each class serves a purpose in Huttball, as was aptly pointed out in an earlier post. The problem I see with most people that play operatives, especially in pug warzones, is they have no idea how to maximize their usage and utility.

 

Knockbacks are a hassle for any class. Especially on the catwalks. My question is, as an operative why would you want to rush back in and get into the thick of the fray? That's near suicide for an operative. Adapt. So you get knocked off. Go find a straggler. There is always at least one. If its a grand melee, get back and pick people off on the fringes. Or if its a losing battle your side is fighting, set up to slow the counterattack and inevitable push by the enemy ball carrier. Your role as an operative is to harry and harass the opposition. Always be moving. If you get knocked off a catwalk, to a lower catwalk level, just fall into the pit, use the layout to block LOS from ranged classes. People will follow you if you fall one level, if you fall more than one 90% of the time, dependent on your health, they will let you go.

 

Are there some warzone group compositions that are not optimal? Most definitely. But each class has value, and can be highly successful with a little bit of innovation and intuitive gameplay. Do what your class dictates you should do, don't be upset because you can't do what you think you should be able to do. If you want to jump, be a warrior/knight, if you want a speed burst be an inquisitor/sage. It really is that simple.

[GrandMike]

I said that same thing long time ago.

 

My suggestion was to make Hutball premade ONLY WZ.

 

But seeing what they are doing with classes, i dont expect them to make anything that makes sense rofl

Edited March 23, 2012 by GrandMike

[Ubernooby]

Do what your class dictates you should do, don't be upset because you can't do what you think you should be able to do.

 

Thank you for saying this, because it illustrates my point nicely:

 

My class "dictates" to be in cover and, well, snipe.

I cannot do that in huttball because a) severe LoS limitations and b) because that's NOT the objective of the wz!

 

In fact on my server, if you hunker down in huttball and start sniping, the following will happen:

 

1. You get a few kills in the beginning, which may or may not be useful for your team or the objective.

 

2. 10 seconds later, those you just killed come back to force jump, pull, grapple or otherwise get you out of cover and send you to respawn.

 

3. Anytime after that, if you try to cover again in any strategically relevant position, the other team would, frankly, make you their b*tch.

 

Sure, on my server the usual pvp crowd are mostly BM+ with proper gear, but I cannot imagine you can get away with just cover/snipe in any huttball game unless its against some fresh 50s perhaps.

[Gurpsmeister]

The ops perception is immensely bias and flawed, every class has a strong role in Huttball, just because you lack the knowledge to make the best of said classes doesnt mean it isnt there.

 

The platforms in huttball are a snipers wet dream, cant be jumped on in cover, shoot people coming to you, punt them off the sides, no you are not a natural ball carrier, you are the line in the sand which the other team shouldnt be able to cross and snaring people in the fire pits is lol. I love it on my Gunslinger, its a total turkey shoot.

 

As for operatives, if a high burst stealth class / hot healer cant find something effective to do then they should reroll.

 

I play an Op healer, so your quote up there doesn't really apply to me. However, gota say, even if I was a DPS op, this doesn't work. The only way I can ever even STAY in stealth is if I'm so far away from someone that I don't get tagged with some AOE spray or someone doesn't walk too close and go..hmm, guess I'll hit that stealthed guy. Seriously, once the stealth is popped...bye.

 

Ops are terrible in Huttball! No speed, no ability to keep themselves alive. They're crap carriers, their defense and HP pool is too low to even set up too many efective passes. I promise if an OP holds the ball for more than a few seconds, the other team fell asleep or took pity.

 

The line in the sand theory only applies in the absolute PERFECT of PERFECT situations where the place you've chosen to ambush happens to have people there..and you didn't get knocked out of stealth, or thrown off the catwalk by one of the gatrillion knockbacks, or you yourself didn't get stunned, pulled, ganked..etc etc.

 

No speed, no leaps in any way, no way to close a gap, and no sound delivery method to DPS anyone other than maybe a straggler, and even then *** good am I doing by taking out the person who's already taken themselves out of the action?

[Tricky-Ha]

******* Edited March 23, 2012 by Tricky-Ha

[Pekish]

hutball is not class dipender "per se" is group of class dependent

 

put the right 4 people with the right class and they need other team to have the same to have a chanse

 

i dont belive it's just one class because if u would have 8 of that class that wouldnt do

but there are certain combination that just make it too easy

[xxdragonragexx]

All warzones are class dependent.

My pyrotech is a lot better than my jugg in voidstar.

My jugg is better than my pyrotech in huttball.

Edited March 23, 2012 by xxdragonragexx

[Stovokor]

Composition and voice-comms determine huttball outcome more then anything else. If a team are able to project dominance regularly in all 3 warzones versus good opposition, you know they are a force to be reckoned with. If they can only win at huttball, they are probably relying heavily on specific plays / classes for huttball.

[MartyrLXXVII]

Thank you for saying this, because it illustrates my point nicely:

 

My class "dictates" to be in cover and, well, snipe.

I cannot do that in huttball because a) severe LoS limitations and b) because that's NOT the objective of the wz!

 

In fact on my server, if you hunker down in huttball and start sniping, the following will happen:

 

1. You get a few kills in the beginning, which may or may not be useful for your team or the objective.

 

2. 10 seconds later, those you just killed come back to force jump, pull, grapple or otherwise get you out of cover and send you to respawn.

 

3. Anytime after that, if you try to cover again in any strategically relevant position, the other team would, frankly, make you their b*tch.

 

Sure, on my server the usual pvp crowd are mostly BM+ with proper gear, but I cannot imagine you can get away with just cover/snipe in any huttball game unless its against some fresh 50s perhaps.

 

sigh... Ever seen all the sandbags around the ball spawn. Sit you sniping *** around there and shred anyone that comes after the ball. If its just you then cc them until you get help. But that is the role of a sniper or gunnery commando in hutball.

Edited March 23, 2012 by MartyrLXXVII

[Ziegler]

Dont throw the ball to the guy in behind the big red glaring come **** me sign........

[Ziegler]

sigh... Ever seen all the sandbags around the ball spawn. Sit you sniping *** around there and shred anyone that comes after the ball. If its just you then cc them until you get help. But that is the role of a sniper or gunnery commando in hutball.

 

 

 

let's see....legs shot....2 second root....1 min cooldown

Flashbang...8 second stun, so long as not damaged, 3 or 4 min cooldown

Debilitate...melee stun for 5 second...melee

Pulse...knockback...4 minute cooldown

 

Did I mention that using any two of those gives a full reserve bar to the target?

 

My CC as a sniper does more to help the other team than hinder.

[MartyrLXXVII]

let's see....legs shot....2 second root....1 min cooldown

Flashbang...8 second stun, so long as not damaged, 3 or 4 min cooldown

Debilitate...melee stun for 5 second...melee

Pulse...knockback...4 minute cooldown

 

Did I mention that using any two of those gives a full reserve bar to the target?

 

My CC as a sniper does more to help the other team than hinder.

 

Didn't say cc was the best option. But 8 secs if noone else shows up you have a bad team anyway.

 

Point being, as a Powertech some of the most challenging matches have been with snipers and commandos camping ball spawn. So one person camping the area doesn't work, but if the team is any good you have a few people there and your opponents will never touch the ball.

 

Regardless that is your role, controlling mid, and its one my PT could not satisfy with the mobility.

Edited March 23, 2012 by MartyrLXXVII

[Ubernooby]

sigh... Ever seen all the sandbags around the ball spawn. Sit you sniping *** around there and shred anyone that comes after the ball. If its just you then cc them until you get help. But that is the role of a sniper or gunnery commando in hutball.

 

sigh...Ever played a sniper in 50s pvp against something else but fresh 50s?

 

Sandbag cover works on my server for first 30 secs, then you get owned the rest of the game, if you keep trying.

Even better if you use the sandbags on the catwalks, that not only gets you owned, but also makes you a really convenient target for force jumps.

 

Oh, and snipers don't "shred" anyone - we are not that good of a dps class.

Perhaps you should take a look at the scoreboards after a wz and check where snipers really rank in total damage.

[Malisaah]

if you havent tried to play a operative marksman dont tell us how we fight and how so called good we are. PLAY IT and find out how fast you die we are just fodder for killing points this class has so so many bugges in it it will make you cry and you know you cant hurt anyone we are suspose to be snipers a one shot one kill and we dont even do that we are just a nat to be shoed away not usefull at all. if you think other wise play it to 50 then tell others what you think then and then think why is there so many toons out there with glow sticks and stelth and very very very few marksman snipers out there.

 

 

 

Let me give you a different perspective... from a Sorc Healer point of view regarding Operatives in Huttball.

 

First off, as a class with a force pull AND being a Healer, I should never be in the thick of the action. I shouldn't be running side by side with the ball carrier or running on the heels of the enemy ball carrier trying to stop/kill them.

 

I should be outside, away from the direct action so I can throw heals, maybe hit a few force slows and or a stun when possible. I say when possible because staying on the outside means having to be very mobile and with a pit level, ground level and 3 tiers of catwalks... mobility and LoS are HUGE obstacles to overcome.

 

Now then... Another point to being on the fringe is that should the ball change hands to MY team, I can potentially force pull the ball carrier away from the mob and give my team a huge advantage that might last a couple seconds.

 

Now then... given all that, lets come to a Enemy Operative.

 

As a Operative, who are you looking for? The lone target or the target with less then 100% health.

 

Aren't you looking for EXACTLY what I just describe above? A lone player in Huttball trying to position outside the main fray?

 

Yes you are.

 

Yes you do.

 

Yes I am toast.

 

I'm sure you've been in Huttball matches where the other team, or shoot, maybe even your team, has controlled Mid and set up 2-3 'pullers' to dang near instantly score when the ball is snatched up.

 

You, little Operative... go break that chain. There they are positioned for the score... all by themselves... most likely paying more attention to the mob then looking around all the time. Plus, they are probably up high on the catwalks and maybe their only defense is to jump off... into the pit where it'll take a lot of time to heal back up and then get back into position...

 

But even that won't matter because you'll have jumped right after them and before they speed off you'll have shot them in the knee, rooting them in place so you can saunter back up and stab-stun them again to death...

[Smashbrother]

let's see....legs shot....2 second root....1 min cooldown

Flashbang...8 second stun, so long as not damaged, 3 or 4 min cooldown

Debilitate...melee stun for 5 second...melee

Pulse...knockback...4 minute cooldown

 

Did I mention that using any two of those gives a full reserve bar to the target?

 

My CC as a sniper does more to help the other team than hinder.

 

You clearly don't know your own class. You're just exaggerating in order to make gunslingers look worse than they are.

 

Leg shot is 15s cd.

Pulse is 30s cd.

Flash bang is 1min cd.

 

Gunslingers have good burst, and my full BM geared guardian has been killed quite quickly by snipers before I can even reach them.

 

Every class has it's use in huttball. I play a full champ geared commando also and I love huttball. It's awesome controlling mid and pewpewing people from the ramps and playing defensively (denying passing by knocking off enemy players on your side of map).

Edited March 24, 2012 by Smashbrother

[Digtahk]

Anyone who says they would put a sniper or operative in their premade are either extremely deluded or have a vested interest in lying on these boards....Speed boosts will always be a big and advantage in any form of pvp. Why would you bring a marauder (once it loses the speed boost) when you can bring a Jug which not only has more leaps but also has the ability to knock people off the rails and guard healers. The beauty of Huttball is that it doesn't actually reward pvp, dying is meaningless and as long as you stay alive long enough to get your pass away or score you can win easily.

 

At the very least they should put in a quick fix by doubling the size of the arena which would make the effect of speed bursts, force pulls etc not as game breaking.

[Dayfax]

At the very least they should put in a quick fix by doubling the size of the arena which would make the effect of speed bursts, force pulls etc not as game breaking.

 

Not sure reworking an entire map could be considered a "quick fix."

 

The easiest alternative is to simply increase the cooldowns of every speed bursting ability. Say, a full minute? *cough*

[iamxtreme]

Huttball lost its flavor with me when a guild was busted for sabotaging it.. (of course being the only ones to get busted yet the "farming" had been going on long before that) I dread Huttball with a passion and will leave as soon as I see it loading (and no.. I dont care what you call me for doing so) but when you have PM on your team who are "pulling" their guild members (who are conveniently on the opposing team) to your goal line so they can score.. or members on your team running in circles not trying to complete objectives so they can "lose" the ball to their friends/guild members on the other team.. or the members of your guild who stand in one place in front of the goal so their friends can force jump to them... you can do the same to the other 2 as well but the chances of your group going against your guild is slimmer in the other 2 WZ than it is in Huttball..

 

wanna stop the initial, or majority of the preliminary ************? make all the warzones ungroupable (meaning you cant 4,3 or 2 man que them) make them cross server with groups being formed closer to level as opposed to 5 level 20s and 3 level 30-40s vs 5 level 30-40s and 3 level 20s.. I understand that they made it so that health wise its compatible and ive had the arguments that the lowbies are harder to kill (which I strongly disagree) but its the ability difference that can make it frustrating to alot of people (how can you compete against someone who has 14 stuns and can run across the map in 3 micro seconds.. take 30 hits and their life meter barely moves.. when youve barely just gotten the ability to sprint?)

 

In game chatting would be great too... how many times have you seen your fearless op leader yell at everyone because while they were being mobbed by 8 people with a serious issue about whos armor looks cooler or whos the better pvper they didnt take the time to TYPE out "help, im being attacked and need someone to get open so I can throw the ball to you"

 

im not ************.. and I could really care less if you think I am.. id just like to see 3 things happen

 

* Cross server all WZ with groups being a little more evenly matched via level of the players

* No more 2, 3 or 4 man Ques.. everyone ques solo

* in game voice

[Covalent]

Could not agree more with the OP. The important utility abilities in Huttball are charge, speed boost, friendly pull, enemy pull and knockback. The problem is how unevenly those five appear on the classes. For example a sorc/sage has three of them while an operative/scoundrel has none.

 

This is a major design flaw that has to be sorted before rated WZ's can be taken seriously.

[Tyraelium]

Neither Voidstar nor Civil War seem to favor any classes in particular. They favor having "healers" but that's just a role.

 

So no, I think you are wrong.

 

Voidstar and Civil War both heavily favor Sith Inquisitors/Jedi Consulars. Stealth and speed boost are vital in these Warzones.

[blackdots]

They can fix huttballl, add a debuff to ball carrier slow, cant not be pulled, force speed ability blocked, leap blocked, and now u have a player who can only walk the ball are pass it...

 

Wow that sounds...boring. It will turn Huttball into one strategy only: give it to a tank and then slowly turtle your way to goal in a big blob. Of course, then operatives would still have to complain about being poor ball carriers, so that doesn't really solve much.

 

I find Huttball fun as it is because it's a reasonably dynamic game. If it were turned into a blob-to-the-goal contest, it would lose these qualities.

 

I really can't believe people don't consider this an issue.

 

When we have rated WZs and every team prefers to take an Assassin over an Operative, don't you think that may be an issue?

 

Can an Operative contribute? Sure he can but not anywhere close to the level of any other class. If you disagree with that I can't take you seriously, sorry.

 

Operatives are the best healing class in the game.

Edited March 24, 2012 by blackdots

[Zunayson]

Erm, you have to know that it depends on the situation which class is the "best".

 

Also, Marauders cannot walk through the fire anymore. It only has a passive 50% dmg reduction, which is not enough to survive. It also has a 20% movement speed if talented, but come on, really.... Guarded by the force will take half their hp, so its really only great if they're about to die

 

What's REALLY awesome about them is predation. In 1.2, they can get double movement speed. Lemme tell you, that is GREAT to have double movement speed of everyone in the party.

 

Snipers have knockbacks, yes, they also have a no-resolve root, meaning they can for short distances, stop the ball carrier and control him/her without building resolve (Fixed in 1.2, again). But, what they have that NO OTHER CLASS HAS is entrench, a 20 second CC IMMUNITY! FULL! CC IMMUNITY! This makes them ideal defenders so that if anyone approaches, they cannot be stopped. They will stop you.

 

Assassins as a whole are the only stealth class with a knockback, and a rumored immunity to the fire. This, whether it's true or not, makes them ideal forerunners for the ball carrier to stealth through and knock people off if they're near the edge.

 

Mercs have stealth detect (But so do pt), which is always, always, ALWAYS nice for PvP, especially Huttball.

 

PT's Leap is just as good as a Sith warriors, except it has a 3 second root, not two second one.

 

But if they're Advanced Prototype, they have a knockback + root immunity and "Physics" immunity (Operative opener knockback?), with a 30% movement speed buff for 8 seconds, at a mere 30 second cooldown!

 

The only part(s) I see of your post that aren't wrong is the whole operatives are useless. True. They're bad.

 

Now are they bad because they can't carry the ball? You ask me if the best linebacker in the history of Football is bad to all teams because he can't throw the ball.

 

If you didn't see what I did there, it's because the operative's role in Huttball is NOT TO CARRY IT! They can gank up a bunch of people, I know that. So that means they're like Assassins, but worse in every respect except for slightly higher burst. So that then goes a long way when you have two...

Edited March 24, 2012 by Zunayson

[KiranK]

Huttball just boils down to who has the most exploited abilities. The top three are pull, leap, and ally leap. Knock backs are a dime a dozen too and sprint + bubble makes obstacles non-existent. Since you can't even go into a Huttball match with a full team of 8, you're rolling the dice whenever you get it, praying that your team is heavily stacked with sorc/sage and tank spec shadow/assassin. All other classes, save Guardian/Juggernaut, can be dismissed. This makes Hutt Ball very lame. It's also exceedingly rare to see close matches because the map is so class dependent. The team with the better class set up wins, and they win by a lot. The opposing team simply prays for a quick end to the match. When they add the ability to choose which war zone you can queue for, I can guess which will be the least played.

[Dayfax]

Snipers have knockbacks, yes, they also have a no-resolve root, meaning they can for short distances, stop the ball carrier and control him/her without building resolve (Fixed in 1.2, again). But, what they have that NO OTHER CLASS HAS is entrench, a 20 second CC IMMUNITY! FULL! CC IMMUNITY! This makes them ideal defenders so that if anyone approaches, they cannot be stopped. They will stop you.

 

I don't disagree with your post, but bear in mind that in order to enjoy the benefits of this ability, the Sniper/Slinger has to effectively root themselves for the duration.

 

So they're immune to CC from other players, but they have to CC themselves to get that immunity.

[Darth_Eminok]

Actually, getting knocked off the platform can be pretty good for us Powertechs/sorcerers. Like if an enemy ball carrier is about to strike a goal... GRAPPLE.