PvP AP in 1.2 - is anyone else super excited?

[Theology]

You know the funny thing about it is. In a serious 8 v 8 competitive scene. All AP can do is keep a healer busy. Pyro's cna do that now WHILE having a chance to kill them. If you just run around and keep a healer busy for 2-3 minutes, you've effectively made it a 7v7, negating any type of benefit you bring.

 

Now, you bring a pyro into the mix, that can not only keep that healer busy, but eventually kill him, THEN rejoin the fight, making it 8v7?

 

Yeah, I think you see what i'm saying here.

 

AP is a joke.

Edited March 24, 2012 by Theology

[exphryl]

no people are sayign AP is bad because you have to be in melee, thats what "lacking ranged" means.

 

maybe you should read before proving are inept you are

 

People say Full AP is bad because it doesn't provide enough in a PvP environment to warrant it over Pyro or Pyro/AP Hybrids.

 

Again, what does AP bring to the table which you so vehemently argue for it's greatness?

[Hizoka]

You know the funny thing about it is. IN a serious 8 v 8 competitive scene. All AP cna do is keep a healer busy. PYro's cna do that now WHILE having a chance to kill them. If you just ru naround and keep ahealer busy for 2-3 minutes, you've effectively made it a 7v7, negating any type of benefit you bring.

 

Now, you bring a pyro into the mix, that can not only keep that healer busy, but eventually kill him, THEN rejoin the fight, making it 8v7?

 

Yeah, I think you see what i'm saying here.

 

AP is a joke.

you act as if AP has 0 damage, its got as much if note more then AP unless AP gets its RNG luck burst.

 

 

You seem to think the luck burst makes it better, it makes its a lucky burst. Real PvPs rather have RELAIYBLE damage over RNG burst damage.

[exphryl]

you act as if AP has 0 damage, its got as much if note more then AP unless AP gets its RNG luck burst.

 

 

You seem to think the luck burst makes it better, it makes its a lucky burst. Real PvPs rather have RELAIYBLE damage over RNG burst damage.

 

Good point. I much prefer having a reliable shot at never downing a healer myself.

 

Shame on that burst being able to get the job done. Shame on it. Unreliable Pyro and it's faults!

[Theology]

Um, dude, AP has garbage damage compared to Pyro regardless of whether Pyro gets lucky RNG or not. Even if it takes 3 GCDs per rail shot proc on pyro, it's still infinitely better than AP ever will be.

 

By all means, please play AP so my 8 man team can stomp your team because they're carrying an AP powertech.

Edited March 24, 2012 by Theology

[Malvantyr]

People say Full AP is bad because it doesn't provide enough in a PvP environment to warrant it over Pyro or Pyro/AP Hybrids.

 

Again, what does AP bring to the table which you so vehemently argue for it's greatness?

 

I'm going to try AP in 1.2 for these reasons:

 

1. Huge Flamer thrower fun. Not because it will kill people, but because its fun. This build may have a decent chance at killing an oranized group's tank, if he's caught in there with his healer, which is probable. However, organized groups will have assassin tanks, which means they can Resilience it.

 

2. The biggest Flame Bursts of any build. If all else fails, 1 button victory.

 

Really, the detriments hurt it, and the detriments are caused by the spec being more melee oriented.

 

a. you get hit by more random AoE for being in melee.

 

b. more enemy melee will tab to you when you are at low health, whereas you could be ignored on the fringes for a long time.

 

c. This build MUST be within 10m, it really can't do much at 30m.

 

d. The survivability is based on you being stunned, I'd rather spend less time stunned. If you break out of a stun, you actually start taking more damage. If that talent made you take 20% less damage for 2-4 seconds after a stun wore off, then it'd be worth it.

 

 

In the end, this build brings nothing OVER what pyro can bring, but a skilled player MIGHT, MIGHT be able to bring the same amount. A 6 second cd interrupt does not matter worth squat, when they instant cast shield and/or HoT themself or others. Gut doesn't do enough damage to counter out their HoT's.

 

I feel like AP has to put itself in bad situations just to be effective. If I don't like what I see as pyro, I just don't run into that mess. AP has no escape skill, sure you can be immune to slows and such for 8 seconds, that doesn't mean you got away, most likely you didn't.

Edited March 24, 2012 by Malvantyr

[Hizoka]

I'm going to try AP in 1.2 for these reasons:

 

1. Huge Flamer thrower fun. Not because it will kill people, but because its fun. This build may have a decent chance at killing an oranized group's tank, if he's caught in there with his healer, which is probable. However, organized groups will have assassin tanks, which means they can Resilience it.

 

2. The biggest Flame Bursts of any build. If all else fails, 1 button victory.

 

Really, the detriments hurt it, and the detriments are caused by the spec being more melee oriented.

 

a. you get hit by more random AoE for being in melee.

 

b. more enemy melee will tab to you when you are at low health, whereas you could be ignored on the fringes for a long time.

 

c. This build MUST be within 10m, it really can't do much at 30m.

 

d. The survivability is based on you being stunned, I'd rather spend less time stunned. If you break out of a stun, you actually start taking more damage. If that talent made you take 20% less damage for 2-4 seconds after a stun wore off, then it'd be worth it.

 

 

In the end, this build brings nothing OVER what pyro can bring, but a skilled player MIGHT, MIGHT be able to bring the same amount. A 6 second cd interrupt does not matter worth squat, when they instant cast shield and/or HoT themself or others. Gut doesn't do enough damage to counter out their HoT's.

 

I feel like AP has to put itself in bad situations just to be effective. If I don't like what I see as pyro, I just don't run into that mess. AP has no escape skill, sure you can be immune to slows and such for 8 seconds, that doesn't mean you got away, most likely you didn't.

is being melee is so bad then why are assassins marauders and juggs so powerfull? its it because they are simply played by better people???

 

 

Pyro right now brings only 1 thing, RNG burst, nothing else. Not to mention if you do not see the value of a 6 second interrupt then you are just plain bad.

Edited March 25, 2012 by Hizoka

[Agooz]

is being melee is so bad then why are assassins marauders and juggs so powerfull? its it because they are simply played by better people???

 

 

Pyro right now brings only 1 thing, RNG burst, nothing else. Not to mention if you do not see the value of a 6 second interrupt then you are just plain bad.

 

You know, you remind me of that occasional player going in to Huttball and says "/ops I will be stealthed at the goal line, when any of you get there, throw me the ball"

 

The rest of the ops just rolls their eyes knowing very well that it is now 7 vs 8. No matter how much someone tried to explain to him that this is not a good strategy, that controlling the center is the most important thing. He comes back and says "/ops well it's your guys' fault that we're loosing, no one was able to get close to me to pass, you guys suck"

 

Same exact mentality. Everyone is telling you that these cute bells and whistles of the AP tree are just that, that burst actually kills healers, that being too much of a melee dependent PT is actually less effective, that having 6sec quell vs 8sec is not worth sacrificing for a decent amount of damage, and you keep saying "/ops but I am stealthed, at the goal line! if you guys cant see the advantage of this, you guys suck!"

[Theology]

^ Great similie.

[Blurps]

is being melee is so bad then why are assassins marauders and juggs so powerfull?

 

Take a couple moments and think about what determines survivability in this game.

 

 

No, it's not the heavy armour...

 

[Tifski]

I'm excited.

[mordredz]

is being melee is so bad then why are assassins marauders and juggs so powerfull? its it because they are simply played by better people???

 

 

Pyro right now brings only 1 thing, RNG burst, nothing else. Not to mention if you do not see the value of a 6 second interrupt then you are just plain bad.

 

Pyro brings great burst, sustained dmg, annoying dots, and much more...

 

The dmg in AP is blah at best...

[Saprezzan]

It isn't that AP sucks, it's that Pyro is (was?) OP.

[Agooz]

It isn't that AP sucks, it's that Pyro is (was?) OP.

 

No, in comparison to other dps ACs, AP is behind.

[Saprezzan]

No, in comparison to other dps ACs, AP is behind.

 

I'm inclined to agree, but Pyro is OP, so hardly a fair comparison

[BlazingShadow]

No, in comparison to other dps ACs, AP is behind.

 

such is the cost for utility and survivability.

[Theology]

such is the cost for utility and survivability.

 

You literally get nothing for survivability outside of HO and 20% less damage when stunned.

 

Hardly justified in the lack of everything else the tree gives.

[Assaultrooper]

You literally get nothing for survivability outside of HO and 20% less damage when stunned.

 

Hardly justified in the lack of everything else the tree gives.

 

Yea but spec wise every spec in the game doesn't really add too much to the survival of the character in PvP, I mean as a PT I get almost the same survivability if I spec tank as If I just switched to Ion cylinder. In fact of all tanks only Juggs get a PvP-viable talent (40% damage reduction)

 

imo atleast survival wise I would take that deal, a 8 sec sprint + 20% damage reduction is quite nice!!! only prob is I would be forced to be in melee range competing with other melee (AKA marauders that get all their survival without choosing a spec), without having the same dps out put nor the same "flow" due to flamethrower.

 

I know I WILL try out AP when 1.2 comes, because right now AP is the single best spec to 1v1 a marauder due to its "kiteability". In group vs group fights like say Voidstar... I will most probably have problems but its not like it wont be viable u'll just have to use grapple more like an actual gap closer than utility to which I am accostumed.

 

AP in 1.2 = I wanna try it!

[Blurps]

imo atleast survival wise I would take that deal, a 8 sec sprint + 20% damage reduction is quite nice!!! only prob is I would be forced to be in melee range competing with other melee (AKA marauders that get all their survival without choosing a spec), without having the same dps out put nor the same "flow" due to flamethrower.

 

You sound like you haven't been at the receiving end of a glowstick jockey melee train yet. And no, it's not just Sents/Marauders...

Edited March 26, 2012 by Blurps

[Agooz]

 

AP in 1.2 = I wanna try it!

 

AP in 1.2 = Your GF's cute but lame sister that you just want a one night with.

[Theology]

AP in 1.2 = Your GF's cute but lame sister that you just want a one night with.

 

^ this.

[dardack]

AP in 1.2 = Your GF's cute but lame sister that you just want a one night with.

 

So pyro is still going to be the spec then?

 

Currently I'm enjoying AP. Burst isnt' same, but substained damage is, as my matches total dam done is about the same and I'm rocking 4pc elim not tech yet.

 

Now the changes to pyro besides the 6sec CD, you can't reliably dps in ION anymore? That was the one advantage, dps spec in tank stance was awesome.

[Agooz]

So pyro is still going to be the spec then?

 

Currently I'm enjoying AP. Burst isnt' same, but substained damage is, as my matches total dam done is about the same and I'm rocking 4pc elim not tech yet.

 

Now the changes to pyro besides the 6sec CD, you can't reliably dps in ION anymore? That was the one advantage, dps spec in tank stance was awesome.

 

I can see your point since you are comparing damage of a deep AP to a Parakeet build (a tank hybrid spec). Actually no one in their right mind is really complaining about not being able to use ION in the hybrid spec. We all knew it was a cheesy, but fun, build; neither of which had the same burst/sustained dps of Pyro. The genuine concerns about the 1.2 changes are from deep Pyros. There is no way anyone can convince me that deep AP has the same sustained dps as deep Pyro. I will take my experience of having tried both in raids, and I could definitely see a big difference, especially on the infernal council fight.

 

Dont get me wrong, the new changes will make that gap smaller, but I still do not see them on equal footing, especially in PvP.

Edited March 26, 2012 by Agooz

[dardack]

I can see your point since you are comparing damage of a deep AP to a Parakeet build (a tank hybrid spec). Actually no one in their right mind is really complaining about not being able to use ION in the hybrid spec. We all knew it was a cheesy, but fun, build; neither of which had the same burst/sustained dps of Pyro. The genuine concerns about the 1.2 changes are from deep Pyros. There is no way anyone can convince me that deep AP has the same sustained dps as deep Pyro. I will take my experience of having tried both in raids, and I could definitely see a big difference, especially on the infernal council fight.

 

Dont get me wrong, the new changes will make that gap smaller, but I still do not see them on equal footing, especially in PvP.

 

OK then i'll go back pyro and not really worry about it.

[Assaultrooper]

Have anyone noticed one flaw in Bioware class design for AP 1.2?

 

In 1.2 it seems we will be getting a guaranteed crit railshot every 15 secs. Now correct me if I am wrong but didn't crits bypass armor AND shields/defence? As it stands if we ever were to actually want to go deep AP we would need to waste atleast 1 talent point in puncture...

 

Am I wrong?