So for gunnery, they want to encourage a "more active rotation"

[Rainsfords]

And by that they mean that they want you to have to stand still for 3s more often spamming full auto instead of grav round? It's not a huge nerf, but two grav round casts will still do more than one full auto channel so I'm not sure I understand the logic here, outside of PvE.

[Fight]

And by that they mean that they want you to have to stand still for 3s more often spamming full auto instead of grav round? It's not a huge nerf, but two grav round casts will still do more than one full auto channel so I'm not sure I understand the logic here, outside of PvE.

 

Two things, firstly I am a pvper but I surely hope they don't go down the frankly impossible route of trying to balance the classes for PVP while gimping them in PVE (which is unfortunately what these 1.2 notes look like). And secondly my full auto with a COF proc regularly hits 2.2k - 2.7k x 3, this is higher than two gravs, especially after the changes.

 

What was the point in making this thread?

[Nitewolfe]

And by that they mean that they want you to have to stand still for 3s more often spamming full auto instead of grav round? It's not a huge nerf, but two grav round casts will still do more than one full auto channel so I'm not sure I understand the logic here, outside of PvE.

 

Full auto hits much harder than 2 grav rounds.

With the increase on CoF procs it will make the rotation a little more interactive since you will be getting more procs to use FA.

[DarkSideTOR]

This is all based on the "FA will proc more" line. Watch it proc the same or less than it currently does. Another thing is the animation, they say they're fixing it but unless it's now instant FA won't be enough to burst healers which is crucial in PVP.

 

Our best option was to hit 2x grav rounds, demo, HIB, to burst them down then FA. Now we'll have to rely more on FA? by the time the first hit from FA lands they're halfway done casting a big heal. What about high armor targets? FA hits for 800 dmg a tick on Juggs and 1200 on crits, we NEED to lower armor with GR for FA to do significant damage and no Juggernaut with a brain is going to let you sit there and cast 3 grav rounds without interruption.

[Rippeh]

most healers got the shaft as well, so only time will tell.

 

they actually seem to have improved burst, with 10% more damage to demo round. to burst down a healer you really should do a damage rotation, then when demo round is back up again, do sticky-grav-demo-cryo, then whatever is off cooldown.

 

i would be much more concerned with the survivability nerfs and marauder buffs.

[Kushtaka]

most healers got the shaft as well, so only time will tell.

 

they actually seem to have improved burst, with 10% more damage to demo round. to burst down a healer you really should do a damage rotation, then when demo round is back up again, do sticky-grav-demo-cryo, then whatever is off cooldown.

 

i would be much more concerned with the survivability nerfs and marauder buffs.

 

This ^^^

[Kushtaka]

Are Sages and Sorcs going to get a more "active" rotation forced on them as well? Just sayin'...

[BobaFaceroll]

I reserve judgement until we see what their definition of "increased significantly" happens to be for Curtain of Fire. Anyone on the test server that could tell us the actual percentage chance to proc Full Auto from the modified trait?

[Kiphere]

I posted this in another thread, but I noticed a mod is directing people to 'this' thread as a consolidated "Discussion" thread so I'll post this here as well.

 

If the goal is to stop people from casting Grav non stop and promote a more active "Rotation" the current changes are ineffectual. They simply nerf grav round so that casting it and only it is less appealing. Here's the problem...

 

The people who were already playing properly never did that. They cast it the exact appropriate amount of times They still have to cast ti that many times because there has been no increase in the application of procs. We still need Grav to stand up our buffs for Demo, HIB, armor debuff, and FA procs.

 

FA procs went up.

Still need 3x for armor debuff and Demo buff.

Still need 5x for HIB buff.

 

If the actual goal is truly to create a more active rotation and decrease the gravround spamming you have to do something that makes us not HAVE to cast Grav round so much.

 

With the current changes you simply nerfed the people who were playing it right, the winners who just spam grav will probably still do it then throw out a demo and do it again.

 

These are my proposed changes.

 

1. Change Gravity Surge to: Increases cast time of Grav Round by 1 second but makes it apply the full stack of 5 Gravity Vortex. With muzzle fluting this would make a 2.5 second cast for our 5 vortex. Keep the dmg nerf to Grav round in place.

 

2. Change Charged Barrier/Barrel. Move charged Barrel to teir 3 in place of barrier and make it trigger from Full Auto with a chance to proc on each tick of dmg. 2 points 25% and 50% proc rate (tweak that, just a suggestion on the percentages) Move Charged Barrier to teir 5 in place of CHarged barrel and change to 1 point: Grav Round has a 100% chance to apply a Charged Barrier. Charged Barrier discharges after you have taken X dmg knocking up to 5 enemies back from the commando. It wouldn't actually 'absorb' or reduce damage but it will, after a threshold, discharge and knock enemie sback. Make the buff only able to occur once every 10 seconds.

 

Here's the thought proces behind these changes.

 

The change to gravity surge will make it so we apply the debuff of armor and the buff for Demo round in 1 cast, that one cast will still be lower dmg (keep the 10% nerf in current 1.2 notes) it will still be decent damage but the 'primary' reason for casting it now is to apply our buff/debuff. It increases the cast time a bit but the overall 'time to full buff/debuff' is diminished by applying 5 stacks of vortex.

 

Removing charged barrel from grav round reduces the 'urge' to cast grav round so much, with our increased proc rate for CoF, FA becomes more of a go to "DPS" ability.

 

The change to charged barrier gives us something we need much more than dmg mitigation, it gives us the ability to actually play like the turrets we've been built into as Gunnery. We can't increase our mobility much but not having to stand in place for 3-5 grav rounds is good, getting a charged barrier proc up eveytime we grav round gives us the ability to get off that FA or follow up Charged Bolts for a proc and have a chance to knock people off our tushies when we have to sit there and cast. The once per 10sec limitation keeps us from just spamming grav and keeping a perpetual knockback buff on ourselves but it's available enough that when we 'do' need to reapply grav, it gives us a lil breathing room to get moving again .

 

With this set up, I see an actual rotation. Grav, Demo, FA, HIB if we got good procs, charged bolts otherwise, FA on CoF proc, HIB on cooldown when we have charged barrel procs up.

 

Grav has been diminished in it's functionality so it doesn't "have" to be cast as much, Charged Bolts becomes our go to 'filler' shot when we have energy, are waiting on cooldowns, and don't have procs up for HIB/FA.

 

Doe sit change it to "Charged bolt spam" instead of "Grav round spam" no... grav round was the go to ability when you had energy and didn't have procs/buffs/cooldowns. It was also the ability we needed to cast to GET our buffs/procs/debuffs which made it so we had to cast it a lot + needed to cast it a lot. With these changes we'll still 'need' to cast it occaisionally but it wont be as often and we'll get better use out of other abilities.

 

Ultimate result; Less grav round, a functional rotation with interactive procs/buffs that will adjust how we play giving us more options/reactionary moments, more mobility because there is less time 'needed' to be spent turreting, a greater ability to actually pull off the turret when we have to via charged barrier change, and more diversity in our rotation through a more desireable charged bolts due to the increased cast time on Grav round to basically turn it into our "one shot buff/debuff" shot to stack up our other abilities.

[Daiyukie]

Yeah.. the "knock back every 10 seconds" thing would make the class way OP, since you couldn't actually be approached by melee and you would only need one grav round to have all your buffs? Hardly a turret anymore then

[VincentWolf]

Yeah.. the "knock back every 10 seconds" thing would make the class way OP, since you couldn't actually be approached by melee and you would only need one grav round to have all your buffs? Hardly a turret anymore then

 

And why are we supposed to be a turret? Why marauders do even more damage while being practically unstoppable?

[Gyronamics]

And why are we supposed to be a turret? Why marauders do even more damage while being practically unstoppable?

 

Because marauders have to hit you at point blank range, lose damage when knocked away or rooted and can't use terrain as defence while still attacking.

 

There's also the bit where you can swap targets 60m apart in one GCD irregardless of slows and roots.

 

Oh and the bit in boss fights when the boss does aoe around itself which lands only on the melee while you're safe 30m back.

Edited March 19, 2012 by Gyronamics

[Kiphere]

Yeah.. the "knock back every 10 seconds" thing would make the class way OP, since you couldn't actually be approached by melee and you would only need one grav round to have all your buffs? Hardly a turret anymore then

 

 

Knockback "every X seconds" could be increased. Gunnery has no real "oh ****" buttons anymore. Our defense took a big hit in this patch and our active knockback got... well, knocked back.

 

Assault still has snares to help them kite, gunnery is a turret and has no effective means of playing that way. Make it every 30 seconds for all I care, it'd still be 'something'.

 

Also in regards to being "OP" with a 10 second knockback, really consider that for a second in a 1v1 situation. Most classes that are going to attack you and try to kill you (i.e. people specced for dmg) are going to get knocked back once, come right back in and finish the job. It takes a max of 1.5 seconds to get back from a knockback so you basically bought yourself a gcd. Its not an OP mechanic. But like I said, bump it up to once every 30 seconds, who cares.

 

In regards to applying all your grav round buffs in a single cast not making us a turret... Yes... cause what we'll do is apply our grav round buffs then run around spamming Demo round! oh wait... 15second cooldown. Well, we cna run around casting Full auto!... channeled, damn.. Ok, the new "meat and potatos attack" will be charged bolts... wait, also has a cast time?

 

Yeah, we'll have HIB which is on a cooldown and Demo which is on a cooldown that we can cast while on the run otherwise we'll still be a 'turret' having to sit in one place and cast the majority of our attacks. Changing grav round doesn't change our 'playstyle' it changes our rotation, reduces our dependancy on a single ability for all of our buffs, debuffs, procs, 'and' from being our primary filler attack.

 

The root of the problem with grav round has always been not that it's the 'best' ability but that it's the ability we 'have' to cast. It just happened to be good enough that when everything else is on cooldown and we had ammo to spare, that' swhat we would cast as wlel. So between being our filler ability AND an ability we NEED to cast to stand up our other abilities or proc our talents we all ended up casting it a lot. SOme people just stopped casting 'other stuff' in general because they were lazy or just bad at the game but even the people playing properly 'had' to cast it a lot.

[sensiblepoast]

Because marauders have to hit you at point blank range, lose damage when knocked away or rooted and can't use terrain as defence while still attacking.

Oh really. How does that fit in with melees runing away from you just to charge at you? In many cases by pushing them away you are making them a favour and increasing their subsecuent dps. But you already knew that.

[Gyronamics]

Oh really. How does that fit in with melees runing away from you just to charge at you? In many cases by pushing them away you are making them a favour and increasing their subsecuent dps. But you already knew that.

 

You're playing huttball.

 

Someone jumps up to your ledge, you break the stun and knock them back down again.

 

WUT THEY GONNA DO.

 

Sabre throw?

 

 

Being 99% ranged means terrain and distance is not the damage limiting issue it is for a melee class that needs cooldowns to close the distance.

 

The reverse issue is there for commandos in that cooldowns are needed to increase the distance or damage will be greatly lowered with a melee on them.

 

But you already knew that.

[sensiblepoast]

You're playing huttball.

 

Someone jumps up to your ledge, you break the stun and knock them back down again.

 

WUT THEY GONNA DO.

 

So your original statement was deceiving, as it was a rather specific case?

 

Or did you just make something up right now?

 

Because the chances you meet a marauder in flat terrain are way greater, you know.

[Gyronamics]

So your original statement was deceiving, as it was a rather specific case?

 

Or did you just make something up right now?

 

Because the chances you meet a marauder in flat terrain are way greater, you know.

 

Are you suggesting that Maurauders don't have a cooldown on their gap closing abilities?

 

Or perhaps you're suggesting that ranged classes don't really have any benefit in dealnig damage from 30m away.

 

Because that's all it sounds like.

[sensiblepoast]

Are you suggesting that Maurauders don't have a cooldown on their gap closing abilities?

Straw man.

Or perhaps you're suggesting that ranged classes don't really have any benefit in dealnig damage from 30m away.

Lol, it is you who were arguing that pooooooor marauders were defenseless when pushed away, when the only thing you are giving them is charging space to finish you off.

Edited March 20, 2012 by sensiblepoast

[Warkyd]

Are you suggesting that Maurauders don't have a cooldown on their gap closing abilities?

 

Or perhaps you're suggesting that ranged classes don't really have any benefit in dealnig damage from 30m away.

 

Because that's all it sounds like.

 

CD on Force leap is smaller then CD on Concussion Charge. Try again.

[Gyronamics]

Well I cba talking about things you want to pretend aren't relevant.

 

I'll get back to my commando and leave you to carry on about ranged not being so effective vs a melee at melee range.

[UglyStik]

Yeah.. the "knock back every 10 seconds" thing would make the class way OP, since you couldn't actually be approached by melee and you would only need one grav round to have all your buffs? Hardly a turret anymore then

 

 

That and I think it would get annoying to be on a Commando and give people free resolve if you don't have to(Imagine in huttball............).

[Parali]

Greetings Troopers,

 

We understand that Troopers have a lot to discuss about the upcoming changes announced for Patch 1.2. There are already a few conversations going on, so you may want to join one of these discussions:

 

Trooper Commando Forum

1.2 Grav round Changes

1.2 Combat Medic

1.2 Commando, general

 

PTS Forum

Feedback on 1.2 Commando (Gunnery) changes (nerfs)

Combat Medic

Prototype Particle Accelerator/Ionic Accelerator Change (powertech/vanguard)

 

Here's what Principal Lead Combat Designer Georg Zoeller had to say about how patch notes, player experience, and data gathered from testing work together to improve the game for everyone:

 

Thank you for actually testing things in the game before posting. It's feedback from people like you we are interested in.

 

Games are not balanced on paper and actual gameplay impact of changes is not easily determined from patch notes, especially when so much of the surrounding game logic has been modified.

 

It is impossible to capture every element of change in patch notes, and it's even more impossible to prevent people from reacting to patch notes without taking the time to actually test.

 

We will be monitoring the game data coming from PTS, as well as guild feedback and constructive feedback based on gameplay on PTS and make adjustments and changes for the PTS period of the patch and beyond where necessary.

 

We hope this sheds a little light on play testing.

 

This thread will now be closed. We encourage you to join one of the conversations above or check out the Public Test Server forums. Thank you for your feedback!