After seeing the upcoming changes, PLEASE let me change my advanced class. PLEASE.

[Oddzball]

The way enrage works, I've found everyone needs to be pushing out DPS. I would prefer a shift in boss mechanics to make enrage a non-factor, as I'm not amused by DPS races, but such is how it is currently. And regardless of whether it's necessary or not, that their DPS as a tank is inferior to other tanks is still important, as it's a quality of life matter that makes other tanks superior. Don't need it, fine -- if it's helpful, they should be equal, or Jugg should be superior somewhere else.

 

That's the main thing that irks me. I'm okay with crappy damage. I'm not okay with a crappy all around package in comparison; I want my Juggernaut to do something valuable the best, instead of doing everything lackluster.

 

 

 

Cool! Good for you.

 

I'm glad some people understand where I'm coming from. Its not that we are horrible, its that we are generally the worst at everything in our field. PT can hold better single and aoe target threat. Assassin can out dps us and hold better threat.

 

I understand the Jugg CAN work, its just pissing me off that we are outclassed by every other tank.

[Midichlorien]

I just find it funny they are nerfing your ae threat but buffing your single target threat when ae threat was/is the issue lol

 

...couldn't say it better.

[Midichlorien]

id love an AC change as well. PT pyro is looking better every day

 

I would go for an Assassin. AEthreat, less damage spikes, 6-button-tank and not to forget -> doubleblade-lightsaber for the coolness factor. I will do.

[Oddzball]

All I can say is please leave the game for how idiotic you sounded lol "Well all i can say is L2P. Tanks are not, ... NOT DPS" Really? pathetic.

 

Tell that to PT, and Assassin. You obviously havent looked at the other classes much.

[lordofdamornin]

I would go for an Assassin. AEthreat, less damage spikes, 6-button-tank and not to forget -> doubleblade-lightsaber for the coolness factor. I will do.

 

Just playing an Assassin probably only requires 6 buttons.

 

Playing one well, on the other hand, requires more. It also requires better planning, better tactics, better execution, and better decision-making skills. Just like this class

 

Based on your recent post history, you would probably be happiest playing either Sorc, or Merc, to be honest.

 

Riôt

[GorillaJ]

I'm glad some people understand where I'm coming from. Its not that we are horrible, its that we are generally the worst at everything in our field. PT can hold better single and aoe target threat. Assassin can out dps us and hold better threat.

 

I understand the Jugg CAN work, its just pissing me off that we are outclassed by every other tank.

 

Right, no one should say Juggernaut can't work. You can tank all end-game content as a Juggernaut. You just don't do it as well, and that's obnoxious. I don't feel like a juggernaut when playing a Juggernaut.

[Inasogard]

After reading all this crap, i had to throw in my opinions

 

I have a lvl 50 jug tank who is in FULL rakata...Even augmented belt / bracer from synthweaving.

 

I ALSO have a lvl 50 Assassin tank who is only wearing 2 pieces of columi gear and the rest is just modded gear with mods from the daily quests.

 

My jug self buffed has a whopping 20930 hps or so with the following defense stats

47.45% damage mitigation

23.21% defense

28.63% shield chance

36.62% absorbption

 

Also to add this is in the Immortal spec. I prefer the 14/27 Imm/Ven spec myself, but since that is getting ripped next patch, i changed. I had better mitigation, better damage and better survivability in that spec, which to me is absurd being 27 points into a dps tree.

 

My asn self buffed has 21628 hps with the following defensive stats

43.36% dam mitigation

27.12% defense

49.40% shield chance (using dark ward)

38.45% absorbption

 

Now taking into consideration my jug has no better gear to get and my assassin only has 2 pieces of columi and no rakata except for the earpiece, how is it that my assassin has better stats....Oh yeah cause BIOWARE is full of crap!

 

I put in the time on my jug, maxed out all companions, got the best gear in the game, even changed out some of the crap mods in a few of the pieces and I dont even want to play him, because tanking on my assassin is not only easier for aoe threat, i do more damage, have better survivability (self heals) and have cooldowns on much lower timers.

 

I believe i can say most of us who complain about jugs are not saying they can't tank on them. I believe we just want some sort of balance to be up to par with ptechs and asns...

 

Give us more hps, give us better aoe threat, give us a larger radius on smash.

 

Shoot I'd be happy if they just increased smash to 8 meters, gave us a talent in the immortal tree that increased endurance by 2/4/6%, and increased our threat from Soresu forum to 100%....

 

Who knows, maybe by the time patch 73.20 gets here, BIOWARE will have pulled their head outa R2-D2's robutt, they will make some decent changes to this class.

Edited March 19, 2012 by Inasogard

[Midichlorien]

Just playing an Assassin probably only requires 6 buttons.

 

Playing one well, on the other hand, requires more. It also requires better planning, better tactics, better execution, and better decision-making skills. Just like this class

 

Based on your recent post history, you would probably be happiest playing either Sorc, or Merc, to be honest.

 

Riôt

 

Actually a RL friend is playing an Assassin and I am able to look over his shoulder while playing. Six buttons for EC and Palace hc, that's all. Planning and tactics? Cool, you mean I can actually plan and execute my playing in encounters? No 100% reactive playing anymore like with my Juggernaut? Fine with that.

Edited March 19, 2012 by Midichlorien

[Midichlorien]

After reading all this crap, i had to throw in my opinions

 

I have a lvl 50 jug tank who is in FULL rakata...Even augmented belt / bracer from synthweaving.

 

I ALSO have a lvl 50 Assassin tank who is only wearing 2 pieces of columi gear and the rest is just modded gear with mods from the daily quests.

 

My jug self buffed has a whopping 20930 hps or so with the following defense stats

47.45% damage mitigation

23.21% defense

28.63% shield chance

36.62% absorbption

 

Also to add this is in the Immortal spec. I prefer the 14/27 Imm/Ven spec myself, but since that is getting ripped next patch, i changed. I had better mitigation, better damage and better survivability in that spec, which to me is absurd being 27 points into a dps tree.

 

My asn self buffed has 21628 hps with the following defensive stats

43.36% dam mitigation

27.12% defense

49.40% shield chance (using dark ward)

38.45% absorbption

 

Now taking into consideration my jug has no better gear to get and my assassin only has 2 pieces of columi and no rakata except for the earpiece, how is it that my assassin has better stats....Oh yeah cause BIOWARE is full of crap!

 

I put in the time on my jug, maxed out all companions, got the best gear in the game, even changed out some of the crap mods in a few of the pieces and I dont even want to play him, because tanking on my assassin is not only easier for aoe threat, i do more damage, have better survivability (self heals) and have cooldowns on much lower timers.

 

I believe i can say most of us who complain about jugs are not saying they can't tank on them. I believe we just want some sort of balance to be up to par with ptechs and asns...

 

Give us more hps, give us better aoe threat, give us a larger radius on smash.

 

Shoot I'd be happy if they just increased smash to 8 meters, gave us a talent in the immortal tree that increased endurance by 2/4/6%, and increased our threat from Soresu forum to 100%....

 

Who knows, maybe by the time patch 73.20 gets here, BIOWARE will have pulled their head outa R2-D2's robutt, they will make some decent changes to this class.

 

Hey, but we get "surge" on our tank sets. It should help for something, shouldn't it?

[Hyyuga]

 

I've been going through the patch notes, cant find the aoe nerf you talked about

 

 

There u go

 

Thrown Gauntlet no longer reduces the cooldown of Threatening Scream (Aoe Taunt) and is now located in Tier 5 of the skill tree.

Edited March 19, 2012 by Hyyuga

[Nmwdw]

And this is a massive nerf for defensive gameplay and guarding in pvp!

Now we do less damage than other tanks in tankspec and have underpar stats in gear....

Only thing that made us special was the AOE dam reduce on low CD.

Why dont u just remove intercede us well ... /rant off

[Goretzu]

Well all i can say is L2P. Tanks are not, ... NOT DPS, my main is an Immortal Jugg.

 

 

2 of the Juggs 3 trees are DPS.

 

Juggs are a DPS class.

 

 

The irony with 1.2 is that Marauders will do both better DPS and take damage better than Juggs in anything but full tank specc (and then the Mara will do much, much better DPS just not take it as well).

[Veeius]

You have survivability issues as a Juggernaut in tank spec? Really? How do you play? Is your keyboard even installed?

 

If anything Immortal Juggs are too tough. As an Immortal Tank, I have pretty much told all the Assassin Tanks and Powertechs that they won't be raiding with us in Nightmare Modes until something changes.

 

As for changing your advanced class, its already in game. Roll a Warrior, at level 10, pick the other one.

 

The End.

 

How in the world are Juggs not tough enough already.

 

 

Seriously - this. Our survivability kicks the living crap out of every other tank in the game by a substantial margin. Our problem is ****NOT**** survivability when we're spec'd immortal.

 

If you want to complain, be more specific:

 

1) The change to crash being passive will be a HUUUUUUUUUGE problem unless they make the stun not affect resolve. (pvp)

 

2) The utter lack of AoE threat we have is absurd. Outside threating scream and smash, we're pretty worthless if there's more than 1 mob. We need something that has a short cd that's decent threat for many mobs.

 

3) Complicating #2 above is the number of mobs that INTENTIONALLY are spread from here to south dakota AND they don't move, they just stand where they are and spam a ranged damage attack.

 

4) If you want to complain about survivability talk about rage's lack of it. Rage does need some help. On the other hand, as a jug, I have to say, rage is stupid. It's ALL about building up smash, then using smash, that's it. The whole spec should be rebuilt. Veng is pretty cool, take lessons from that.

 

I enjoy my jug, though I have to say tanking trash mobs is beyond painful right now. And for single targets... maybe taunt is a little too powerful.....

Edited March 26, 2012 by Paralassa
content

[rossonja]

Lol Immortal didn't get it as bad as Vengeance. I may end up having to change to Rage. They just can't let you have a good thing.

[Lord_Infernus]

I don't see why anyone can't reroll. So it may take you a few months to hit 50 again, are you going somewhere? is the game not going to be here in a few months? If you are a pvper you can level through pvp. Since you are just going to pvp all the time at 50 what is the difference?

 

At this rate, there is honestly no telling if this game will be here in a few months.

[Godzillamax]

the only thing i don't get is that juggernauts now get a skill that lowers threat. kind of defeats the object of tanking if you ask me.

 

There is also a Jugg DPS spec. That ability is specifically for them.

[Darth_Sookie]

Well all i can say is L2P. Tanks are not, ... NOT DPS, my main is an Immortal Jugg. I have no problems playing with it and with the right skill combos firing off while in a WZ i can take on up to 5 players when i have a dedicated healer for the entire time. (Note in most cases 3+ individuals attacking me and the healer are full BM gear while i just have Full Centurion) all i can think of if your having issues playing the spec is that your not focusing on the most important attributes for this spec which is Endurance.

 

Now i will give it to you that the warrior class does need some fixing in general because of just how quickly some classes can rip though us solo, those are pretty much the only greviences i have is when im 2 shot by an OP not using BM gear.

 

Or the fact that Force Choke, Force push, and Charge themselves are broken and dont do what there supposed to do half the time

 

lololol

 

Tanks? We have 2 DPS trees and one tank tree (which btw is awful for pvp).

[Godzillamax]

Seriously - this. Our survivability kicks the living crap out of every other tank in the game by a substantial margin. Our problem is ****NOT**** survivability when we're spec'd immortal.

 

If you want to complain, be more specific:

 

2) The utter lack of AoE threat we have is absurd. Outside threating scream and smash, we're pretty worthless if there's more than 1 mob. We need something that has a short cd that's decent threat for many mobs.

 

I don't think its absurd, just not as good as the "AE tank" classes like Powertech and Assassin. My guilds MT was a powertech and I was the Jugg OT until our MT had to take some time off from the game and I became by default my guild's MT. Although we don't run any nightmare mode Ops we do clear EV and KP on hardmode weekly and I don't see much of an issue with my AE threat. Granted, this is because a loose mob typically doesn't hit hard enough to 1 shot other raid members. So, I don't care as much about a lose mob or two because I have time/ability to get them back onto me.

 

One thing I did notice, though, was that our powertech MT was able to hold aggro on packs of mobs very well AND his single target tanking/mitigation/threat was about on par with mine. Knowing this, I'd take a powertech tank over a Jugg tank any day of the week.

[Nemmar]

I spent 3 months leveling a SW to 50, as an Imortal Jug, hoping in vain that you would fix our survivability with the 1.2 patch. You even PROMISED to give Juggs some love with 1.2

 

Then the patch notes roll out, and I see we are actually getting what is essentially a NERF??? Good god, I just dont want to be a Jugg anymore after this. I'm a slower levelering then most, and I stuck it out to 50, but to know I wasted that time on a class that now, I no longer want anything to do with, is just sad. I would venture to say things are actually WORSE for Imort spec Juggs now, then before, which is crazy, because Immort Juggs were already the worst tank in the game, and had the lowest DPS out of the 3 tanks.

 

All I'm asking is let me change my advanced class. A free respec aint gonna cut it, I want completely out of Jugg AC.

 

Hell I even accept the responsibility to gear myself up again.

 

What kind of QQ is this?

 

Immortal tanks are getting threat and damage buffs on 1.2.

 

If you dont have a grasp on what each talent does i recommend you read the patch notes on a fansite like darth hater so you can make sense of it all. Juggernaut is not only 1 tree. You have to look at the changes on the first 2 tier of the other trees aswell.

[Remot]

There u go

 

Thrown Gauntlet no longer reduces the cooldown of Threatening Scream (Aoe Taunt) and is now located in Tier 5 of the skill tree.

 

because good tanks take thrown guntlet /endsarcasm

 

on another note

i fully agree we lack aoe threat, but how many bosses require you to aoe tank?

trash mobs, yea its annoying to keep em all sticked to you as jugg but even playing NiM i dont recall having loose mobs running around killing raid members.

[Teioh_White]

Why wouldn't a good tank take Thrown Gauntlet? Taunts give insane aggro boost, and more taunts is always better taunts. Losing 15 sec on our AoE taunt will actually hurt our long term threat gen a lot more than +50% threat on Crushing Blow threat will compensate.

 

And someone mentioned we are more durable than other classes? I'm not certain I see that on a tank v. tank comparison, and it's sure not there for a DPS spec vs. Dps spec. To be fair, it's hard for any dps spec to compete with the maraduer's CD's.

[Bastus]

Honestly, this class never looked the same after I made my BH and Maurader. I'm having so much more fun on my Maurader. This class just makes other classes look good, I mean when my BH was lvl 35 it hit equally or harder then my full Columi geared Jug. Jugs need some freaking skill consolidation. We have so many 9sec CD skills that aren't worth the wait. More potent dots for Veng specs, or better damage in general would be nice. I had high hopes for 1.2, now I wish I hadn't wasted the time on gear.

[Doormad]

to the OP : your making so many contradictions in your posts its getting funny really ...

[Devilray]

Imho we have reales good survivability but only if you say goodbye to that "Great" rakata Stuff.

 

Especially if its about ear, implant, offhand and waist Slot - Take the crafted ones or 2nd best augmentable columni.

I was a bit worried about the jug Stats i do sometimes read.

I have in Hybrid spec

50% dmg reduction

25% defense

42% shield chance

45% shield absorb

@ unbuffed 19k hp so i am raidbuffed at 20700 hp

and no rakata Part at all - set is still columni.

 

2nd point i see different in this thread is threat - as its now with taunt mechanic one can't lose aggro after boss lost 30% hp - and in raids right now isn't really need for aoe tanking.

 

@Main Topic: just reroll or quit and keep crying about evil evil BW

 

Edit: PTS says rakata gear is beeing modified with patch - unfortunately only original mods will be changed - so anyone who modified its gear must undo these changes or will keep the stats at patch

Edited March 22, 2012 by Devilray

[iDubstep]

id love an AC change as well. PT pyro is looking better every day

 

How is PT Pyro looking better? They getting hit just as hard as Arsenal Merc...