1.2 Operative Changes

[TheGreatNeechi]

Giving backstab a 12 second cooldown?

 

Giving Hidden Strike a 7.5 second cooldown?

 

To other Ops who aren't sure just how bad a nerf this is, consider Acid Blade only works with Hidden Strike or Back Stab. Your armor penetration just took yet another hard nerf, and I have a suspicious feeling these token buffs to Laceration and Back Stab damage aren't enough to make up for it.

 

I really don't know what to think about this, Bioware. Why even have this class in the game? Really. Flanking had better be juicy.

 

Everyone, just roll Assassins. Barely any changes to that class.

[Demarcc]

If you roll assassins you have to remember to come to the forums and whine like a bit ch that you cant solo a good healer all day though. Seems to be what a majority of the assassins around here do.

[AMKSED]

If you roll assassins you have to remember to come to the forums and whine like a bit ch that you cant solo a good healer all day though. Seems to be what a majority of the assassins around here do.

 

And where does that happen?

[Wallach]

Giving backstab a 12 second cooldown?

 

Giving Hidden Strike a 7.5 second cooldown?

 

To other Ops who aren't sure just how bad a nerf this is, consider Acid Blade only works with Hidden Strike or Back Stab. Your armor penetration just took yet another hard nerf, and I have a suspicious feeling these token buffs to Laceration and Back Stab damage aren't enough to make up for it.

 

I really don't know what to think about this, Bioware. Why even have this class in the game? Really. Flanking had better be juicy.

 

Everyone, just roll Assassins. Barely any changes to that class.

 

Uh... our armor penetration remains unchanged. I don't think you understand your own class.

Edited March 17, 2012 by Wallach

[Demarcc]

And where does that happen?

 

Check your PMs

[Kyrandis]

Giving backstab a 12 second cooldown?

 

Giving Hidden Strike a 7.5 second cooldown?

 

To other Ops who aren't sure just how bad a nerf this is, consider Acid Blade only works with Hidden Strike or Back Stab. Your armor penetration just took yet another hard nerf, and I have a suspicious feeling these token buffs to Laceration and Back Stab damage aren't enough to make up for it.

 

I really don't know what to think about this, Bioware. Why even have this class in the game? Really. Flanking had better be juicy.

 

Everyone, just roll Assassins. Barely any changes to that class.

 

Flechette round/acid blade has a 15s duration, its no nerf to armor pen.

The Nerf to Backblast/Backstab hurt our sustained DPS, 30% cooldown increase for 5% damage.

Suckerpunch got a 33% reduction in energy costs for 10% less damage.

Backblast/backstab now costs 5 or 10 energy, a further nerf to sustained damage.

Turn the Tables no longer grants 3% increased to all damage, it only grants a damage increase to sucker punch and its proc.

Shoot First has a 7.5 second cooldown so Disappearing act will likely not be used very offensively.

 

The rest is talent rearranging. I'd say thats a pretty hefty nerf. This whole patch was designed to checker our burst dps.

 

And by checker I mean spread it out. Outside from the opener Shoot First and Backblast will not be used together if you intend to pull out maximum DPS.

 

It's ok Georg, I'm house cleaning too. I uninstalled the game, and took the box off my shelf.

 

2 Direct heavy handed nerfs, and 1 nerf to surge. I'd dare say it won't be the last.

 

R.I.P. Scrapper.

Edited March 17, 2012 by Kyrandis

[LiveandDieinLA]

yeah ops didnt need another nerf.

[GrandMike]

Changes are retarded, plain and simple.

 

But not just for ops/scoundrels, at least there is some consistency rofl

Edited March 17, 2012 by GrandMike

[LiveandDieinLA]

eh, merc/commando healers were pretty damn over powered. Sage/sorcs having a limitless energy pool was pretty dumb too. Both those things needed to be addressed.

[hrelas]

Changes aren't final. If you are upset, or disagree with a change, then voice your opinion in a manner that a respectable person might want to read instead of poorly written passive-aggressive blabber that seems to be the norm. I only play medic, so I don't know what the trouble is. All I know is that operatives burst is fairly high.

 

My suggestion instead of increasing cooldown and increasing damage, would be to reduce cooldown drastically and reduce the damage, to provide better sustained dps and reduced burst. Getting 100-0'd without being able to control your character at all, is not good game play, it is not fun, in fact it's alt-f4 material. Lets see what they figure out in the coming weeks as players test the new changes on the PTS.

[DariuszPol]

eh, merc/commando healers were pretty damn over powered. Sage/sorcs having a limitless energy pool was pretty dumb too. Both those things needed to be addressed.

 

As far as I know they want to buff commando / bh healing.

[Wallach]

As far as I know they want to buff commando / bh healing.

 

They wanted to buff their AoE heal. Clearly they didn't feel they should buff any of their single target heals.

[TheGreatNeechi]

It's just a really huge slap in the face with ranked warzones coming.

 

They nerf me, I adapt, they just nerf me again. I understand Operative was always a support class, not intended to be a front-line fighter, that can back-up heal and harass healers. I get it.

 

But this constant message I'm getting from Bioware is: We don't want you playing Operatives in ranked warzones. Assassins can't heal, Operatives can, but Assassins can tank and tank hard. Meanwhile, Operative healing is piecemeal.

 

There genuinely is no point to bringing an Operative into a ranked warzone. We don't offer anything substantial to the gameplay anymore.

 

I know --why-- Bioware is doing this. They don't want a stunlock class inflicting too much damage, which is understandable. The changes to Back Stab mean I have one less melee attack to use in a fight. I get to use it once. I get to inflict 2 Acid Blades: On open, and with back stab.

 

I used Acid Blade not just for armor penetration, but for the extra damage. So I had it bound to my middle mouse button, and every time back stab was available I'd tag a player with it. Now that it's on cool down for the fight I'm limited to shiv and lacerate, putting further strain on the TWO tactical advantages I can carry at any given moment. I always liked keeping at least ONE tactical advantage for the small boost in damage, but now I'm forced to use both at all times, further reducing my sustained DPS.

 

I'm just ready to pull my hair out on this.

 

EDIT: I guess that just means I get to play more like a sniper.

Edited March 17, 2012 by TheGreatNeechi

[Aetou]

Changes aren't final. If you are upset, or disagree with a change, then voice your opinion in a manner that a respectable person might want to read instead of poorly written passive-aggressive blabber that seems to be the norm. I only play medic, so I don't know what the trouble is. All I know is that operatives burst is fairly high.

 

If they'd paid even the slightest bit of attention to people's feedback on other changes that had hit the PTS previously we might have more hope that they'd pay attention now.

 

I don't think the changes are the end of the world as a lot of other dps classes are getting taken down similarly, as is healing. It seems they want to reduce damage across the board to make fights last longer.

 

Only weird things are that they ignored Shadow Tanks and didn't do anything to fix the many issues that Dirty Fighting has.

[Dee-Jay]

The Operative/Scoundrel changes just don't make much sense. They make about as much sense as the changes to the Knight/Warrior classes (not much).

 

Reducing burst is fine - I can get behind a minor cooldown on Hidden Strike to prevent back-to-back usage. 5 seconds would have sufficed, but it's no big deal.

 

But the increase in Backstab's CD makes little/no sense. That's a brutal nerf to general DPS and quite unwarranted (unless Operatives were somehow doing more PvE DPS than intended).

 

If they really wanted to curb our burst effectively they'd remove Acid Blade. All it does is add extra damage to our already hefty openers without adding much in the way of interesting game-play.

 

Replace Acid Blade with something cool like Shadowstep and you solve multiple problems in a single sweep. You nerf burst DPS by removing the 30% ArP and give Operatives a much needed gap-closer.

 

But it looks like Bioware is just completely happy making random and completely arbitrary class changes.

[TheGreatNeechi]

The Operative/Scoundrel changes just don't make much sense. They make about as much sense as the changes to the Knight/Warrior classes (not much).

 

Reducing burst is fine - I can get behind a minor cooldown on Hidden Strike to prevent back-to-back usage. 5 seconds would have sufficed, but it's no big deal.

 

But the increase in Backstab's CD makes little/no sense. That's a brutal nerf to general DPS and quite unwarranted (unless Operatives were somehow doing more PvE DPS than intended).

 

If they really wanted to curb our burst effectively they'd remove Acid Blade. All it does is add extra damage to our already hefty openers without adding much in the way of interesting game-play.

 

Replace Acid Blade with something cool like Shadowstep and you solve multiple problems in a single sweep. You nerf burst DPS by removing the 30% ArP and give Operatives a much needed gap-closer.

 

But it looks like Bioware is just completely happy making random and completely arbitrary class changes.

 

Oh man, whatever you do don't trade Acid Blade for a gap closer.

 

Without Acid Blade your gap closer won't mean anything; closing the gap to a target you cannot kill is not a good thing.

Edited March 17, 2012 by TheGreatNeechi

[TheGreatNeechi]

Maybe Bioware wants to goad Operatives into more ranged combat.

 

This just occurred to me, though our ranged options aren't really effective.

 

In Huttball last night I basically played a sniper and healer, using my melee abilities to protect me from ambush.

 

Is that what you want? Bioware? Last time I checked, trying to compel a player to play a class a specific way was simply bad development.

[Scerge]

Maybe Bioware wants to goad Operatives into more ranged combat.

 

This just occurred to me, though our ranged options aren't really effective.

 

In Huttball last night I basically played a sniper and healer, using my melee abilities to protect me from ambush.

 

Is that what you want? Bioware? Last time I checked, trying to compel a player to play a class a specific way was simply bad development.

 

Haha the only good dps ranged ability as a melee operative I found was frag grenades and explosive probe -.-

[mlgtryhard]

If you wanna play a bit more of a ranged style, that is what lethality should be for. As concealment we shouldn't have to be forced into using our ranged abilities to fill the gaps between our already uneven melee CD arrangement. Then BW adds 3 sec to our BS cooldown? BS indeed BW.

[TheGreatNeechi]

If you wanna play a bit more of a ranged style, that is what lethality should be for. As concealment we shouldn't have to be forced into using our ranged abilities to fill the gaps between our already uneven melee CD arrangement. Then BW adds 3 sec to our BS cooldown? BS indeed BW.

 

Eh, I respecced into Medicine already.

 

I'm already trolling hard as a stealth healer, healing more than Sages/Sorcerers.

 

At this point I can't wait for 1.2, then they'll see how better life was with "OP" DPS Operatives.

[Sideblaze]

As a marauder main, I find it odd that operatives are getting nerfed. I wanted to level mine up, but id rather not waste time with an apparently dying class. Back on topic, The fact marauders are getting buffed and operatives are getting nerfed is strange to me

 

The first operative nerf was justified. Maybe a little overboard. But cmon, 10k crits? ((I would like the old acid blade back))

 

But the thing is, marauders can DESTROY operatives if played right...My poorly worded point is, Operatives kinda need to have LOWER cooldowns, Because face it, You guys have **** chains. Really once you use all your knife attacks your kinda just doing nothing for 5 seconds while you get focused.

 

Sorry for wall of text and possible poor grammar, tired.

[ahache]

Because face it, You guys have **** chains. Really once you use all your knife attacks your kinda just doing nothing for 5 seconds while you get focused.

 

Sorry for wall of text and possible poor grammar, tired.

 

LOL nice to hear that from a non-op.

 

I've already added in a crouch/explosive probe/rifle shot(or any attack to set off the probe) combo to my rotation. It's a nice dps boost for 1v1s and especially when they're running away.

 

The extra 3 secs for BS is gonna take some rotation adjusting, but I really don't see it as a 'nuclear nerf'.

 

If you want to continue as concealment, I really think the 2 points in slip away are now brutally essential. Having debilitate available more often is so effective when everything is on CD.

 

Proposed post-1.2 rotation - (I almost exclusively pvp)

 

** I'm popping crit/surge relic and/or power stim, if off cooldown, before every fight **

 

AB > HS > stim boost > BS > shiv > laceration > grenade > Debilitate > crouch > explosive probe > rifle shot

 

constantly look to interrupt a cast or server tendon on a runner

 

fill CD of shiv with rifle shot > shiv > laceration > grenade

 

This should take care of a lot of fights. Notice how BS is only part of my opener. This is likely the respect we'll need to give the 12 sec cooldown. If you're still in combat and can't stealth, AB > BS is now your key opener on your next opponent.

 

I love playing a concealment op. We don't have the mindless casts, knock-backs and great mobility that other classes enjoy. We're forced to think on our feet and use multiple tools to creatively win fights.

 

I know this nerf is discouraging, but all I can say is adjust, practice and you'll be owning again in no time.

[Maxkardinal]

Nerf our damage whatever you want, but give us UTILITY!

[Redmarx]

Giving backstab a 12 second cooldown?

 

Giving Hidden Strike a 7.5 second cooldown?

 

To other Ops who aren't sure just how bad a nerf this is, consider Acid Blade only works with Hidden Strike or Back Stab. Your armor penetration just took yet another hard nerf, and I have a suspicious feeling these token buffs to Laceration and Back Stab damage aren't enough to make up for it.

 

I really don't know what to think about this, Bioware. Why even have this class in the game? Really. Flanking had better be juicy.

 

Everyone, just roll Assassins. Barely any changes to that class.

 

Who cares about operative changes. The only people who play operatives are those who

 

a) didn't realise shadow/assassin is better at everything

b) rolled an operative to be a healer

 

Reroll assassin and enjoy the OPness.

 

Edited March 28, 2012 by Redmarx

[mSum]

I think ti's pretty clear BW intends Operatives to spec healing...the other two trees are totally gimped in 1.2 for both PvE and PvP.

 

Pretty lame BW.