R.I.P Pyro Powertech.

[GenjuroK]

New Pyro will be insanely boring..at least before 1.2 we could take some risks, try to force the kill and overheat..got a couple back to back procs, now its just..oh wait another 6 seconds and then hope to get another proc, we can still be unlucky, but its certain in a timewindow of 6 seconds nothing can happen, also our rotation got simplified even it was still easy before, they made the new Pyro boring and predictable not fun and dangerous like it was before.

[Sorenia]

I think some people are confused about the complaint here. There's nothing wrong with the cooldown. I see no problem with having our burst "stabalized".

 

The problem is that the ability we have to use BEFORE we CAN fire Rail Shot is also the ability that can proc a cooldown refresh on Rail Shot. Thus the proc will usually go wasted in PvP.

[Assaultrooper]

I think some people are confused about the complaint here. There's nothing wrong with the cooldown. I see no problem with having our burst "stabalized".

 

The problem is that the ability we have to use BEFORE we CAN fire Rail Shot is also the ability that can proc a cooldown refresh on Rail Shot. Thus the proc will usually go wasted in PvP.

 

Its not "stabilizing" they are buffing the chances to proc by about 10% meaning you have about the same proc rate as before but this time you have to wait 6 secs after each proc.

[Fdzzaigl]

I've been playing a bit more of assault today and I have to say I'm beginning to see it more as a nerf after paying attention to how many GCDs it usually takes to proc.

 

4 GCDs between each potential burst (if you get a crit) is long indeed, and it will not make ammo management easier + you can still get unlucky.

If we had an additional attack to throw in between bursts, that would have been ok, but it's just Ion Pulse to hell as it stands now (although you do get situations where you can aoe).

 

Secondly, we were already a pretty squishy class with little defensive CD's (bar the 25% reduction every 2 minutes). We will lose another 15% armor from being forced into plasma cell.

 

In general, they toned down the RNG but in a bad way for us, gave us potentially bigger ammo problems and nerfed our survivability further. I think they should at least give some more reliable burst and maybe bring the internal cooldown back to 3 GCDs or buff the native crit chance of HiB.

Edited March 18, 2012 by Fdzzaigl

[Chiefy]

Its not "stabilizing" they are buffing the chances to proc by about 10% meaning you have about the same proc rate as before but this time you have to wait 6 secs after each proc.

 

where are you getting the 10% figure from out of interest?

 

I have read the same patch notes and all it says is "The chance to trigger this effect has been increased significantly"

 

a significant increase to me is not 10% ??

 

I am not saying you are wrong, I am just wondering were this figure has been plucked from

[Sookster]

I like how bads scream RIP for a OP spec that is being balanced so you can't gimp people in 4 GCDs as a friggin tank.

 

Pryo is dps, if you spend the majority of points in pyro you're going to be fairly squishy and the risk vs reward is the burst damage it has, the risk is if you can't bust down someone before running out of heat or health.

 

That's what is the problem with the 1.2 changes, it's a tad worse for mercenary version of pyro since power shot also got hit by the nerf, which is already a terrible attack (400-600 damage per 1.5s cast?).

[Assaultrooper]

where are you getting the 10% figure from out of interest?

 

I have read the same patch notes and all it says is "The chance to trigger this effect has been increased significantly"

 

a significant increase to me is not 10% ??

 

I am not saying you are wrong, I am just wondering were this figure has been plucked from

 

From a PTS server tester let me refer you:

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=364427

 

its 60% chance to proc on RP, and 45% on FB.

 

As they do not specify in the patch notes Im taking it as base-line and indicative of the "real" change, as opposed to what is initially perceived from the notes, "That ill get vent heat every 6 secs." The long term probability would most likely be about every 9-10 secs one railshot proc.

[darkrom]

Missile>RS>TB>RP>RS or FB> RS > FB

 

Still looks like burst to me but with no 15 seconds of randomized crap. I think I'll like the increased proc chance better. However, this must be tested in game to mean anything to me....

[Krytycal]

Missile>RS>TB>RP>RS or FB> RS > FB

 

Still looks like burst to me but with no 15 seconds of randomized crap. I think I'll like the increased proc chance better. However, this must be tested in game to mean anything to me....

 

The problem with that is that after the initial proc, you are SOL.

 

So in a fight that lasts more than 4 GCDs, it will be more like:

 

FB > RS > RP > FB > RS > (throw filler attacks for 6 seconds) > RP > FB > RS

 

As someone mentioned, you could easily go up to 10 seconds (6-7 GCDs) without a RS proc, which rarely happens as it is now. It's a pretty significant nerf to their sustained damage/heat venting.

Edited March 18, 2012 by Krytycal

[darkrom]

I could see undergeared PTs needing more than 2 railshots vs an individual but with my gear and my lack of luck on procs anyways, I really think it will come down to the same ol' dependency on crit for me. If I get 2 RS to crit, that's usually all I could ever ask for. The significant increase for proc chance (even with 6sec cd) sounds like an improvement over my streaks of....unlucky streaks. Course, I'm talking PVP here. I have no idea how this will effect PVE PT energy management.

[Xsorus]

The DPS spec tree.

On a tank.

Being able outburst pure DPS classes, not one in a blue moon, very reliably. Sometimes more luck, sometimes less, but generally reliable due to extremely high proc rates with no cooldown on the proc(until 1.2 that is).

I'd reconsider who is the complete moron here if I were you.

 

Nope he was right, you are the complete moron. Pyro power tech is one of the squishiest dps in the game.

[svartalfimposter]

Pryo is dps, if you spend the majority of points in pyro you're going to be fairly squishy

 

Lost me here. I missed the part where Heavy armour and Shield got removed.

[Xsorus]

Lost me here. I missed the part where Heavy armour and Shield got removed.

 

Heavy armor in this game is a joke. Most scary dps simply ignore it, and you don't use shield as a pyro either. The mitigation in this game comes from stacking damage reduction talents and cool downs, it's why marauders are harder to kill, better cool downs for defense plus heals.

[Assaultrooper]

Ok we are the class nerfed the most in this patch or any patch so far... Why is there so little uproar? When operative got nerfed ("tweak" is a better word as they could now stun-lock) forums were filled with QQ. Now PT dps are getting the real nerf hammer, and it seems not many seem to gives a damn

[exphryl]

Ok we are the class nerfed the most in this patch or any patch so far... Why is there so little uproar? When operative got nerfed ("tweak" is a better word as they could now stun-lock) forums were filled with QQ. Now PT dps are getting the real nerf hammer, and it seems not many seem to gives a damn

 

We are the least played AC in the game (as a whole if you add Vanguards and Powertech together. Just a little less than the Operatives/Scoundrels)

 

Less people to complain about a change.

[SneiK]

I think the change is totally justified. I'll take consistent over luck any time. The question is, however, how much this 'significantly' increased means. Mathematically significant? (30%->31% hope not.) As what people often forget, both the abilities that give pyro the proc is mid/melee ranged (10m/4m).

 

The class was never truly OP, and I like the change and am looking forward to playing 1.2.

 

Who they hurt the most are Shieldtechs who actually tank. For full pyros, the change can be for the better actually.

[Sharangir]

The biggest nerf is not that this limits our burst dmg. The biggest nerf is that this nerfs our heat. Pyrotech was always the most heat consuming of all BH specs, and the only thing that would make this manageable was the procs on PPA making railshot free cost.

 

 

Less PPA = more heat = more rapid shots = less dmg.

 

And no, it is not more sustained or more consistent, it's STILL luck based but also with a cooldown.

 

Now you can start trying to proc right away. But with the nerf you need to wait 6 seconds before you can try your luck to proc.

Edited March 18, 2012 by Sharangir

[Varicite]

I've been playing a bit more of assault today and I have to say I'm beginning to see it more as a nerf after paying attention to how many GCDs it usually takes to proc.

 

4 GCDs between each potential burst (if you get a crit) is long indeed, and it will not make ammo management easier + you can still get unlucky.

If we had an additional attack to throw in between bursts, that would have been ok, but it's just Ion Pulse to hell as it stands now (although you do get situations where you can aoe).

 

Secondly, we were already a pretty squishy class with little defensive CD's (bar the 25% reduction every 2 minutes). We will lose another 15% armor from being forced into plasma cell.

 

In general, they toned down the RNG but in a bad way for us, gave us potentially bigger ammo problems and nerfed our survivability further. I think they should at least give some more reliable burst and maybe bring the internal cooldown back to 3 GCDs or buff the native crit chance of HiB.

 

Thinking about the changes some more, this is what I'm starting to become kind of concerned about. Glad to see that others have been playing w/ the numbers.

 

We used to vent heat sporadically, but usually no more than 6-7 seconds. With a 6 second downtime, and then needing to use an ability, the FASTEST that we can count on venting heat w/ Rail Shot is going to be 7.5 seconds.

 

It will probably be more along the lines of 9-10 seconds, as 45% isn't enough to count on PPA proc'ing on the very first ability you use after the downtime finishes. Rocket Punch's 60% proc chance will only be up every other opportunity to proc Rail Shots.

 

Pyro usually runs in CGC (Plasma Cell), so I don't think the 15% armor loss can really be counted. The only time I ever use the tank stance is when guarding ball carriers anyway.

 

So, it looks like it is going to be quite the nerf to our heat management. 9-10 seconds w/out a PPA proc on a healer right now on live means I'm going to be finding a corner to huddle in and spam Rapid Shots pretty soon.

[CrunkShizzle]

speaking of pyrotech

 

i already posted this,but its probably buried underneath a million pages by now.anyone know where i can find a good powertech pyrotech pvp video

[Varicite]

speaking of pyrotech

 

i already posted this,but its probably buried underneath a million pages by now.anyone know where i can find a good powertech pyrotech pvp video

 

Check the sticky at the top of the forum, Taugrim's guide to bounty hunter mechanics and PvP.

 

He's good and it's good.

[Swarna]

A 66% proc might have made a world of difference over a 60% one. My Annihilate has a 66% chance to refresh my Rupture, and it RARELY doesn't proc (6s CD as well).

[MiZrYdj]

A 66% proc might have made a world of difference over a 60% one. My Annihilate has a 66% chance to refresh my Rupture, and it RARELY doesn't proc (6s CD as well).

 

60% + 45% proccing attacks is pretty damned good odds if you ask me.

 

I'm willing to bet that PT's will proc within 3 of these attacks just about everytime, and if it takes more it will be so rare it might happen 1-2 times in a full WZ.

Edited March 18, 2012 by MiZrYdj

[exphryl]

60% + 45% proccing attacks is pretty damned good odds if you ask me.

 

I'm willing to bet that PT's will proc within 3 of these attacks just about everytime, and if it takes more it will be so rare it might happen 1-2 times in a full WZ.

 

so wait 6 secs, then wait another 4.5 secs.

 

Which by that standard means you'll railshot every 10.5 Secs.

 

While Damage, in my opinion, isn't going to take a HUGE hit. The heat management as stated is what's going to cause everything else to fall apart now in a non-burst scneeario...

Edited March 18, 2012 by exphryl

[Prof-Chaos]

I don't think this will be that much of a problem in PVP; the burst is still there although slightly nerfed. I'm more worried about PVE where ammo/heat management is much more important.

[MiZrYdj]

so wait 6 secs, then wait another 4.5 secs.

 

Which by that standard means you'll railshot every 10.5 Secs.

 

While Damage, in my opinion, isn't going to take a HUGE hit. The heat management as stated is what's going to cause everything else to fall apart now in a non-burst scneeario...

 

Go talk to a PT that has been playing on the PTS. All these doom and gloom theories about the most EPIC nerf to hit a class in SWTOR..... Powertech.... is just that, theories. All they did was remove the back to back RS's and made getting RS VERY consistant, and heat is not an issue if you know not to spam heat building crap when your proc is on CD.

 

So.... we just got our damage to be consistent.... and remember our consistent damage is EPIC damage. You have no idea how many times the past few months I've thought to myself, "if my damage was just consistent..... I would wreck people just about every single time".