Scoundrel PTS patch Notes for 1.2.

[MashTactics]

Overall, I'm not seeing a whole lot of reasons to not unsub.

 

I used to love this game, but I'm beginning to realize just how irreversibly incompetent Bioware actually is. Not only do they take months to address the most simple issues, but when they do address the issues, they manage to **** everything up.

[TyrantOfNordberg]

Upper Hand no longer triggers a "grunt" sound effect when it occurs.

 

Is the chuckle that they do or is it just some other random sound effect? Because if they are getting rid of the chuckle....

[Rogmar]

You guys don't even know the improvement in damage with the new talents. For all you know it could be stronger. Just basing "class is worthless" off the cooldown nerf is just short-sighted.

[SabaTheHobo]

Is the chuckle that they do or is it just some other random sound effect? Because if they are getting rid of the chuckle....

 

Seriously...I'd be quite bummed if they took the ability for me to giggle at the folks trying to kill me away. No real reason to remove it.

[Stryges]

You guys don't even know the improvement in damage with the new talents. For all you know it could be stronger. Just basing "class is worthless" off the cooldown nerf is just short-sighted.

 

Actually, it has been posted in the PTR forums that even with talents we are getting a reduction in damage.

[Wren_Atticus]

How can you say that? The increase in the cooldown for BB is not made up for in any way by the damage increase, it is a joke. Again, light armor (coughsorcscough) were made that we could kill them SOMETIMES (latency permitting) with a double SF, so that was removed.

 

I bet they haven't even bothered to fix the knockdown bug with shoot first.

 

I have a JG at 49, but I think I may roll a Shadow. What about everyone else?

 

Forget rerolling. Why give them more money for killing my class. i'd rather quit alltogether. I made the class I wanted to play. I don't want to have to leave that for another because they can't figure things out like balance.

[ImSaved]

You guys don't even know the improvement in damage with the new talents. For all you know it could be stronger. Just basing "class is worthless" off the cooldown nerf is just short-sighted.

 

Unless the initial nerf to Shoot First has been revereted, putting a 7.5s CD on it makes it siginificantly worse. Sucker Punch took a straight 10% nerf, and the increase in Back Blast's CD means Flechette Round went from 66% uptime to 50% uptime, and somehow an extra 5% damage is going to make up for it? Not to mention they nerfed No Hold's Barred, so we're losing 3% crit, and Hold Out Defense, which is a 2% nerf to Blaster Whip.

 

Now that Diablo 3 has been announced I'm counting the days till I can say goodbye to this game. Scoundrel's nerfed again, while Sentinels, arguably the best DPS class in the game ALREADY, is getting buffed.

 

Complete joke.

Edited March 17, 2012 by ImSaved

[Zoobi]

Now that Diablo 3 has been announced I'm counting the days till I can say goodbye to this game. Scoundrel's nerfed again, while Sentinels, arguably the best DPS class in the game ALREADY, isgetting buffed.

 

Complete joke.

 

You and me both, already have the collector's edition preordered. I fear that the scrapper/concealments of us will never become good again. Bioware is *********** pathetic.

[namelless]

WHAT!?!?!?!?!

 

Well, goodbye scrappers it was nice knowing you.

 

Atleast sawbones received a buff.

Edited March 17, 2012 by namelless

[geaghan]

I posted this in the other thread but I want someone to tell me I'm wrong or whatever.

 

-Wait am I missing something but don't scrappers regen at 5 p/s increased to 7.5 p/s with pugnacity specced. Then that means 11.25 energy each GCD which against a bleeding target means spamming sucker punch will gain energy.

 

Does this mean, even with the 10% drop which apparently 4% is recoverable, sustained DPS got a massive boost or what the hell did I miss.

[Zoobi]

I honestly don't understand why Bioware doesn't just remove the trooper/smuggler and their counterparts. It's pretty obvious by the patch notes that they prefer them to be weak and want the jedis/sith to be strong in this game. Why even bother with the other 4 classes at this point. God knows Bioware won't be getting another cent of my money for this game and any other game they make.

[Murdertrane]

I posted this in the other thread but I want someone to tell me I'm wrong or whatever.

 

-Wait am I missing something but don't scrappers regen at 5 p/s increased to 7.5 p/s with pugnacity specced. Then that means 11.25 energy each GCD which against a bleeding target means spamming sucker punch will gain energy.

 

Does this mean, even with the 10% drop which apparently 4% is recoverable, sustained DPS got a massive boost or what the hell did I miss.

 

 

Sucker Punch requires Upper Hand.

 

There will be no spamming of anything that requires Upper Hand afaik.

 

EDIT after re-reading: I'm hopeful that it will work out better, but we now have 2 globals to fill between our normal rotation and the patch rotation with the increased CD on Back Blast. I'm not playing atm but from what I can tell, this will necessitate a filler and that'll be Quick Shot or Flurry of Bolts. Quick Shot is 17 energy and hits for very moderate damage. Flurry is, of course, free but hits even softer. Let's not forget that both of those are white damage and heavily mitigated by harder targets.

 

I'm trying to see the silver lining, but it's just not there.

 

The 3% crit loss was a nice touch, too.

 

Appreciate that.

Edited March 17, 2012 by Murdertrane

[geaghan]

Sucker Punch requires Upper Hand.

 

There will be no spamming of anything that requires Upper Hand afaik.

 

So add a vital shot into the rotation

 

edit That's my mistake flying fists only hits 50% of the time damn.

Edited March 17, 2012 by geaghan

[dizzyMongoose]

I honestly don't understand why Bioware doesn't just remove the trooper/smuggler and their counterparts. It's pretty obvious by the patch notes that they prefer them to be weak and want the jedis/sith to be strong in this game. Why even bother with the other 4 classes at this point. God knows Bioware won't be getting another cent of my money for this game and any other game they make.

 

I'm going to guess you aren't a Sawbones, because they got nothing but love for their tree. BioWare crushed the Sage/Sorcerer hybrid that everyone complained about pretty hard, too, so there's plenty of complaining to be had for a lot of classes.

[MashTactics]

I'm going to guess you aren't a Sawbones, because they got nothing but love for their tree. BioWare crushed the Sage/Sorcerer hybrid that everyone complained about pretty hard, too, so there's plenty of complaining to be had for a lot of classes.

 

And then Scoundrels get crit by the nerf bat.

 

In all honesty, this is by far the harshest and most undeserving nerf I have ever seen in my time of playing MMOs. There was no reason for this. As it is, scoundrels are ONLY good when the players behind the keyboard are good.

 

Why does that sound like they needed to be nerfed to you?

[Zoobi]

I'm going to guess you aren't a Sawbones, because they got nothing but love for their tree. BioWare crushed the Sage/Sorcerer hybrid that everyone complained about pretty hard, too, so there's plenty of complaining to be had for a lot of classes.

 

So it's okay for only one tree to be viable? Really? Well then, might as well remove scrapper and dirty fighting. DF will never be viable without some way to generate UH from range.

[Murdertrane]

So add a vital shot into the rotation

 

edit That's my mistake flying fists only hits 50% of the time damn.

 

Vital is a good choice in PvE of course.

 

But I spend 99% (or more) of my gametime in PvP, so making my target potentially immune to flash bang if I need it isn't worth the modest damage I'd get from that global.

 

Last round of nerfs we shifted from upfront burst to control (the most successful scrappers, anyway) and doing anything that limits that control is dicey--again, just my opinion.

 

Besides, I'd venture to guess the average damage I'd get from Vital Shot on a target before it died would be similar to throwing in a Flurry--ie. not huge. And again, not worth losing potential control.

 

But for PvE, absolutely.

 

Vital Shot will probably be a lot more user-friendly in that part of the game.

[rkopczak]

thank god I'm sawbones, so yeah I will just laugh at all the operatives trying to kill me

[Murdertrane]

Heh,

 

As of this posting we just hit page 5 on complaints about the changes for scoundrels.

 

Over on the BH board the nerf thread is over 18 pages.

 

 

 

I'm sure some of the disparity in responses is due purely to the differences in populations playing those classes. But I wonder how much being nerfed every other patch or so has dulled our give-a-**** to the point we don't even bother complaining.

 

Just a purely random, meaningless observation I found amusing.

[dizzyMongoose]

And then Scoundrels get crit by the nerf bat.

 

In all honesty, this is by far the harshest and most undeserving nerf I have ever seen in my time of playing MMOs. There was no reason for this. As it is, scoundrels are ONLY good when the players behind the keyboard are good.

 

Why does that sound like they needed to be nerfed to you?

 

Did I miss where Sawbones aren't Scoundrels? Because they got a lot of buffs, while the other healer classes got knocked down a peg. But yes, I understand, Scrapper Scoundrels are the only ones that matter, though I personally don't see a nerf to that tree so much as an intent to differentiate Back Blast and Sucker Punch into big burst and efficient burst powers, respectively. They also changed the skills so that you need to go further in the Scrapper tree to boost up those powers. BioWare should've posted the damage boost numbers from Sawed Off and Turn the Tables, though, would clarify a lot of where the damage has shifted.

[MashTactics]

Did I miss where Sawbones aren't Scoundrels? Because they got a lot of buffs, while the other healer classes got knocked down a peg. But yes, I understand, Scrapper Scoundrels are the only ones that matter, though I personally don't see a nerf to that tree so much as an intent to differentiate Back Blast and Sucker Punch into big burst and efficient burst powers, respectively. They also changed the skills so that you need to go further in the Scrapper tree to boost up those powers. BioWare should've posted the damage boost numbers from Sawed Off and Turn the Tables, though, would clarify a lot of where the damage has shifted.

 

Yes, I heard you the first time when you creamed yourself over the sawbones buffs. Sorry to break it to you, but sages are still superior in nearly every way.

 

And yes, they should have. The reason they haven't is the same as why there STILL isn't a combat log. They don't want people to know how ****** their screw up really is.

[antiviolence]

How can you say that? The increase in the cooldown for BB is not made up for in any way by the damage increase, it is a joke. Again, light armor (coughsorcscough) were made that we could kill them SOMETIMES (latency permitting) with a double SF, so that was removed.

 

I bet they haven't even bothered to fix the knockdown bug with shoot first.

 

I have a JG at 49, but I think I may roll a Shadow. What about everyone else?

 

Did you even read what I said? or read the patch notes?

[dizzyMongoose]

Yes, I heard you the first time when you creamed yourself over the sawbones buffs. Sorry to break it to you, but sages are still superior in nearly every way.

 

Hah, you wouldn't think that given the amount of wailing on their forum.

[Omeleet]

Sages and Commando healers got nerfed HARD.

 

Commando healers just eat ammo now and have less potent damage mitigation buffs. Gravity Round spam isn't going to be as prevalent, so people are going to cry about that too.

 

Sages Resplendence removing life => force change makes their sustainability go down drastically especially in PVP.

That paired with their clench heals being very expensive now has made them a questionable choice for pvp. The sage aoe hybrid spec 0/23/18 took a hefty nerf, their TK Wave is no longer instant cast as often with +20% damage.

 

Sawbones is now the most powerful healer in pvp, no question in my mind. I feel sorry for Scrappers. But there is a reason we aren't qqing as hard.

Edited March 17, 2012 by Omeleet

[Wallach]

And then Scoundrels get crit by the nerf bat.

 

In all honesty, this is by far the harshest and most undeserving nerf I have ever seen in my time of playing MMOs.

 

Talk about an all-you-can-eat hyperbole buffet. These "nerfs" mean jack squat, they're some of the most minor housekeeping-style class changes I've seen, and especially among the rest of the 1.2 class changes.

 

It doesn't mean Scoundrels/Operatives are "fine", because they have significant mobility issues. Doesn't mean these changes are really going to matter, because they're not. At least as far as Scrapper is concerned; Dirty Fighting was buffed pretty respectably, especially from a PvE standpoint. I'm interested to see how big of a gain that is for them.