hargrave Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 (edited) Ive waited for over 4 years or so on this game. I was really looking fwd to open world pvp. This video here at 1:37 or so gabe is claiming 100v100 and this huge massive battle in ilum. Since launch Ilum has been an exploiters paradise and trade killing heaven. Its now been abandoned while they "revamp" it. qoutes from this article http://games.on.net/article/15061/Developer_Interview_Wyld_Talks_to_Gabe_Amatangelo_on_SWTOR_PVP_and_Flashpoints?page=2 Gabe: Yeah, it is but it’s very basic. I guess the important message there is, we’re well aware of it, and there was some expectation management that we could have done better because what I think happened is, a lot of people heard “Mythic” and “open world PvP” and so a lot of assumptions were made there. Its not assuming when you claim 100vs100 on a live stage at a game convention. Then proceed to go on this grandios presentation of a ilum that never existed. We tried to get the message out of “IT’S NOT RvR!” and that it was just open world PvP but still, through second hand information, many people expected big scale RvR. Galactic warfare is something we very much want to do, it’s just not what Ilum is. And we’ll be addressing a bunch of issues there alone. So here we have you saying 100vs100 and massive huge battles "guerilla style warfare" and now your saying you want to try to do this? after you advertised having this already? Gabe: Some counterbalancing, yeah I can understand that. The tricky thing about open world PvP is, first off, as far as Ilum goes and just open world PvP across SW:TOR in general, we wanted to get areas in there that players could engage in there when they wanted to, but it was never slated to have a full and robust RvR type system or galactic warfare, tug-of-war type of things. I mean, we want to do it, and the PvP team especially wants to do this sort of thing, of course, but it just wasn’t in the cards leading up to launch. So this is stuff in the future, and that we’re already thinking about and working on. If it wasnt in the game why was 100vs100 advertised about ilum? You never claimed rvr fair enough. Gabe: The first things we want to address in open world PvP is the fact that it really depends on the time of the day, the circumstances and situation that you engage in open world PvP is whether or not it’s fun and engaging. And ways you can help control that stuff is to have timed objectives and timed events, like “these things” happen at these times of the day, so it helps concentrate populations in those areas. Also, some balancing systems like, okay there’s this much of the server population in one area from one faction, so this much of the other faction can be in. There are also other things you can introduce like turrets or other handicap devices. But the more of that stuff you do, the less open world PvP it is - the more it becomes matched PvP. So it’s a fine line. Some people like one, some people like the other, and we really wanted to have that as an option based on what the players want. Warzones is matched PvP, maybe not on a grand scale, but it’s matched PvP none the less. Ilum was never open world pvp it was a pvp side area on ilum. Lets get that straight instanced to hell i might add. I understand ilum and open world pvp is bieng worked on but i have to be honest im getting tired of bieng lied to i had enough of that in lotro. Warzones are not the solution to open world pvp. Faction imbalance is due to rep side bieng lousy and poorly done. No alien races i.e wookies/alien races and the rep storyline are what affecting faction imbalance. You can ignore that issue all you like but take a poll prove me wrong about that 90% of people will agree that the rep side story lines are boring and zzz. Creating same faction pvp isnt the solution either. Heres how to salvage open world pvp (prove me wrong) Stop throwing pr at the issue (stating you have the best pvp team doesnt help or stating 100vs100 then later saying you want to do that after advertising that you have) Real objective base pvp I.E base bosses you have to kill and take over the base. Move all pve off of ilum. Make all of ilum pvp related not just the side area. This can be done by putting those flashpoints on the fleet where the rest of them are anyways. Then you would have real open world pvp not just the side area Pvp bases on other planets would have been a better solution to faction imbalance. people cant be everywhere at once if theres to many imps on ilum they could to the tattoine pvp base this would thin out the imbalance to some extent (why this isnt done already i dont know) Stop worrying about ridiculous things like managed fights or even numbers if you have pvp bases on other planets this will solve that issue regardless of what time of day it is. If people want managed fights they can go to warzones. lets be open to out of the box ideas. Why not be open to rvr? its appealing to a lot of people gw2 seems to be doing well this idea. Worried about server communities? well to late you still dont have server forums 3 months in.We may have 1.7 mill players now but what would be more impressive is 1.7 6 months from now. So ill prob get a temp ban for this but i dont care i want this game to succeed and im tired of bieng lied to and i dont want to see a multi million star wars game that i do like turn into rift 2 which its looking more and more like so far..... Edited March 17, 2012 by hargrave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil_Santa Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 The base boss idea is a great one, and as a vet lotro player myself I will admit that it worked great in the Ettenmoors by providing objectives that were hard to capture and sometimes took 1 - 2 hours for a raid to be successful in capturing a keep. It also puts a timed constraint on that cap by forcing the raid to be successful before respawns happened in the keep, or it was reinforced. Warhammer had this somewhat, but honestly it wasn't nearly as intense as lotro's, where a keep boss would 1-shot anyone who wasn't a tank, so the degree of communication required to micro manage the pve while holding off the pvp players was extremely high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hargrave Posted March 16, 2012 Author Share Posted March 16, 2012 It would be one of the few things lotro got right lmao. They seemed obsessed with faction imbalance but wont adress the issue except for same faction crap wz's. If we had pvp bases on other planets right now it would fix a lot of things and thin out the fights The base boss idea is a great one, and as a vet lotro player myself I will admit that it worked great in the Ettenmoors by providing objectives that were hard to capture and sometimes took 1 - 2 hours for a raid to be successful in capturing a keep. It also puts a timed constraint on that cap by forcing the raid to be successful before respawns happened in the keep, or it was reinforced. Warhammer had this somewhat, but honestly it wasn't nearly as intense as lotro's, where a keep boss would 1-shot anyone who wasn't a tank, so the degree of communication required to micro manage the pve while holding off the pvp players was extremely high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gankdalf_ Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Ok so he got confused between 100 v 100 when he meant 8 v 8, anyone can make that mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlette Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Ok so he got confused between 100 v 100 when he meant 8 v 8, anyone can make that mistake. Amen! But now, honesty and Gabe is like asking a Cow to play a trumpet... NOT GOING TO HAPPEN! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hargrave Posted March 16, 2012 Author Share Posted March 16, 2012 i agee just tired of it i went through lotro lying thier butts off their. Lotro is toast this game im hoping theyll listen and get in gear and quit screwing around. Interesting how the interviewer talks about open world and gabe tries to direct the convo to wz's lol come on man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gankdalf_ Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 i agee just tired of it i went through lotro lying thier butts off their. Lotro is toast this game im hoping theyll listen and get in gear and quit screwing around. Interesting how the interviewer talks about open world and gabe tries to direct the convo to wz's lol come on man. The damage has been done now with this game, the misinformation thats been leaked from EA is a disgrace and the game itself is a total letdown. It's had it and I am sad because I like SW and just wish a better company had made it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stilly Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Amen! But now, honesty and Gabe is like asking a Cow to play a trumpet... NOT GOING TO HAPPEN! Challenge accepted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartes Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Interesting how the interviewer talks about open world and gabe tries to direct the convo to wz's lol come on man. this! WZ will never be RvR or even true open world PvP. Even if we take into consideration the fact that there will always be number imbalances, some kind of grabbable objectives or zones should be implemented so even if one side is underpopulated with group effort, eventually, they should take it. (omg long sentence) I mean, even small victories do good for "realm" pride and can change the whole outcome. I've seen it in Warhammer when one successful city take could shift server balance for days (or hours at least). You know, the hive mind stuff. On my server Imps are not that great or uber geared but if they have to wait for 20 mins or longer for non Imp vs Imp WZ (Huttball) they try to do their best to win. Reps just rage quit at the very first sign of "we not gonna faceroll Imps". I just had a WZ where me and my pal were the only ones remaining from the original WZ team, really sad. Not to mention we won anyway, frack you you rage quitters!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hargrave Posted March 16, 2012 Author Share Posted March 16, 2012 I dont understand why thier isnt pvp bases on other planets? All we have to do now is wz's since ilum was crapped on and bieng revamped. Imagine if we had pvp bases on other planets to go. Say your a rep and the ilum base is bieng camped well you could just say screw this im going to see whats going on at tatooines pvp base or quesh. Instead its just do wz's 24/7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savrem Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Great ideas for world pvp. I don't think its possible since there isn't 3 factions....there will always be problems now. I've been a fanboy up until this point. I'm just fed up with all the PvP issues in game (just look at all the nerdrage on the forums). I think the majority of rage is Bioware's reluctance to be HONEST on their plans and whats coming. They have until Guild Wars 2 comes out before its too late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hargrave Posted March 16, 2012 Author Share Posted March 16, 2012 Yeah i hate to admit b/c i want to play this more but when i look gw2 pvp footage it depresses the hell out of me here with this pvp.... Great ideas for world pvp. I don't think its possible since there isn't 3 factions....there will always be problems now. I've been a fanboy up until this point. I'm just fed up with all the PvP issues in game (just look at all the nerdrage on the forums). I think the majority of rage is Bioware's reluctance to be HONEST on their plans and whats coming. They have until Guild Wars 2 comes out before its too late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hargrave Posted March 16, 2012 Author Share Posted March 16, 2012 http://www.theimperialnetwork.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/pvp2.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vikassi Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Its a shame .. This game, especially the engine, needs lots o work ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiaRB Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 funny how all you forum ragers never actually, you know, pvp. youll only pvp if there is something to farm from it. what is stopping all you, "oh woe is me" types from pvp in the zone on tatooine? or even on ilum for that matter? nothing to farm so you dont show up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gankdalf_ Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 funny how all you forum ragers never actually, you know, pvp. youll only pvp if there is something to farm from it. what is stopping all you, "oh woe is me" types from pvp in the zone on tatooine? or even on ilum for that matter? nothing to farm so you dont show up. The champion elite guards with 106k HP guarding a little level 25 camp is what is stopping me, it's the worst designed MMO I have ever seen, *** is the point of a pvp server that prevents you from doing PvP. When this game dies part of me will be sad and part will say, you deserve it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzone Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Ok so he got confused between 100 v 100 when he meant 8 v 8, anyone can make that mistake. Again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiaRB Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 The champion elite guards with 106k HP guarding a little level 25 camp is what is stopping me, it's the worst designed MMO I have ever seen, *** is the point of a pvp server that prevents you from doing PvP. When this game dies part of me will be sad and part will say, you deserve it. lol. oh so youll only pvp when you have easy access to PKing lowbies? sorry, but stomping lowbies isnt pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banjal Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 I dont understand why they didn't just copy Warhammer RvR,they copied WoW PvP to much when they should have done DAoC or Warhammer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twin Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 funny how all you forum ragers never actually, you know, pvp. youll only pvp if there is something to farm from it. what is stopping all you, "oh woe is me" types from pvp in the zone on tatooine? or even on ilum for that matter? nothing to farm so you dont show up. You can't blame the playerbase for not appearing somewhere, unless there is some kinda incentive for it tbh. Are you a pvper? -Do you spend hour after hour at tat pvp zone waiting for pvp to happen? There has to be some incentive, it really is as simple as that imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrunkShizzle Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 (edited) the problem with copying world of warcrafts pvp is anyone whos pvp'd in other mmorpgs already knows how garbage the pvp is in world of warcraft.but i figured they copied warhammers pvp more then world of warcraft,since isnt that where the pvp devs came from eather way,i just hope when all is said and done.and ilum gets put back in,eather 1.the serious pvpers are still in the game,or come back 2.the "im doing it for the gear"mindset community doesnt ruin it again i mean,i wouldnt leave the game just because the only pvp was warzones.but i do enjoy curb stomping people in world pvp and i guess the only world pvp in this game at lvl 50 is ilum Edited March 16, 2012 by CrunkShizzle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ObiJuanHernandez Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 The base boss idea is good so long as pvp doesn't become the shaming failure that was the Ettenmoors. Raids hiding in npc's trying to lure the other raid into their npc's is NOT - I repeat NOT - pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gankdalf_ Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 lol. oh so youll only pvp when you have easy access to PKing lowbies? sorry, but stomping lowbies isnt pvp. You assume too much, I mean when I am questing with my lvl 25 on Tatooine we can't all get together and attack their base because the guards are crazy levels. In WOW you could easily attack South Shore as a mid level player Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuology Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 You can't blame the playerbase for not appearing somewhere, unless there is some kinda incentive for it tbh. Are you a pvper? -Do you spend hour after hour at tat pvp zone waiting for pvp to happen? There has to be some incentive, it really is as simple as that imo. Actually there doesn't (pvp was never reward based for years before it was ruined by such) - and this is unfortuantely what people and developers don;t understand. And the proof is pretty simple. Take 1 person of 1 faction and drop them next to a person of the other faction and you can pretty much be assured they will start fighting. Thats what PvP is, the desire to prove yourself better than the games hardest opponent - another player. That is where this game fails. The leveling zones do not overlap across factions, each factions starts from their own overly defended base and the quests are all instanced. There is such a small chance for one player to "bump" into another that its ludicrous. They could have made a quest hub being a local militia town where both sides got the same quests for the area where b oth sides would have to compete for mobs - of course this means a faction dominate will always control that leveling area (but then who cares if your on a PVP server thats what you get), and most companies these days don;t want the poor little care-bear players who think they are cool by rolling on a PvP server to cry because they couldn;t level - or worse, spend time making multiple leveling zones so that they had options and replayability. The reward system came about because the average player is just that - average, and if they could spend 100 hours farming for gear to give them an advantage then that equals subscriptions to a company. And thus the allmighty money treadmill was born, we run and pay for the privledge. Now I am not saying rewards are stupid or should be removed but if you want to make PvP meaningful - remove all rewards that affect PvP or charecter power. Such rewards you could have include choices of different skinned outfits, glow affects addable to outfits/weapons, pets or mounts. Currently for me the best PvP in this game is 10-49 area. The bolster systems keeps everyone at the same relative power with only talent seperating people. While some would say a level 11 might be useless - they only have less options - bolster makes their base attack hit hard enough that I have topped the DPS many times in the 10-49 on a freshly minted char. But that aside, there is no gear imbalance stuffing up the mix (yes a group of 50's vs a grp of battlemasters is not fun, no matter how much you cry about how easy the gear is to get - its NOT fun and it deters people from palying) which makes the games usually quite solid and fair. But most importantly there are no rewards. Very few people leave 10-49 bracket games, even loosing ones, because - why would you? Instead of leaving you go find people to kill/heal/sap...wait follow...sap...tehehehehe.... This is PvP and its popular But then thats not enough for me....but a developer might listen to the "real" pvpers not the "gimme" pvpers, and that company will get the best support I know to give, my money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reveillere Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 100v100 would work if there was 100 1v1 spread all over ilum, just saying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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