Over Powered healing killing PvP

[Arlette]

I think people all too often try to compare heals to DPS and when you think bout it you can't do that. You, a healer, are not expected to DPS are you? Nope, your job is to heal and provide protection. Us as a DPS, our jobs are to kill.

 

So to sit back and say, well I can't kill anyone or I can't do as much damage as you shouldn't even be in the debate.

 

Now on topic. At what point do we say "it should take *this many* geared, skilled DPS to kill 1 healer?" 2 DPS? 3 DPS? At what point is it balanced that a healer can keep himself alive while keeping his teammates alive as well? 2 DPS on the healer and he is able to throw heals?

 

Balancing heals isn't an easy job and I don't think anyone would argue that. However, there are several instances where I, as an Arsenal Merc, have been involved in trying to nuke a healer with 2 others and none of us can seeing as just as we are about to finish him he is back up to half.

 

I think there is an imbalance to healing in PVP, however to balance it is beyond me. Do we let healers do no DPS and live forever? Do we give healers the ability to DPS and make the game balanced around 1 v 1 where any given spec can kill any given spec giving the fact that all things being equal?

 

I truly think it's such a slippery slope that there is no black and white answer to it. Heck, to even try to weed out the biased on the subject is a feat in itself.

 

If you have 2 people on a healer and you can't take him down... you're obviously doing something wrong. Either 0 communication or bad timing on CCs and Interrupts but hell you can lock that guy completely... 2 CCs + 2 interrupts

[Arlette]

What about decreasing the ammount healed each time? Sort of like resolve, but the more a player is healed the less each heal heals him for. The heal resolve would be reset after a certain ammount of time of no healing.

 

Sure, add the same thing for damage and let's put it on the PTS

[Ortof]

If you have 2 people on a healer and you can't take him down... you're obviously doing something wrong. Either 0 communication or bad timing on CCs and Interrupts but hell you can lock that guy completely... 2 CCs + 2 interrupts

 

You're also forgetting his resolve bar and defenses aren't you? Not to mention LOS. Or the fact that I said I was a Arsenal Merc (ya tons of CC and interrupts on my end). I mean, I am not going to argue the fact that it "should" work that way, but if the healer is smart and pops his CC break at the right time, you can't CC him until a long, loong time into the fight, at least meaningful enough to burst him down.

 

But not going to argue. Like I said, weeding out the biased in the argument is a feat in itself. Also, I am not under geared, new to the game, new to MMO's, new to PVP or horrible at the game. I am going off of what I experience and see. Ya, I can annihilate the healer that stationary by myself, hitting one button yada yada yada. To the higher skilled with gear, um no seeing as they know how to play their classes/specs.

Edited March 16, 2012 by Ortof

[Bullsith]

If you have 2 people on a healer and you can't take him down... you're obviously doing something wrong. Either 0 communication or bad timing on CCs and Interrupts but hell you can lock that guy completely... 2 CCs + 2 interrupts

 

Yes cause PVP is 2 guys vs 1 healer, with no extranal factors such as CC, friedndlies or other healers.

[Arlette]

You're also forgetting his resolve bar and defenses aren't you? Not to mention LOS. Or the fact that I said I was a Arsenal Merc (ya tons of CC and interrupts on my end). I mean, I am not going to argue the fact that it "should" work that way, but if the healer is smart and pops his CC break at the right time, you can't CC him until a long, loong time into the fight, at least meaningful enough to burst him down.

 

But not going to argue. Like I said, weeding out the biased in the argument is a feat in itself. Also, I am not under geared, new to the game, new to MMO's, new to PVP or horrible at the game. I am going off of what I experience and see. a, I can annihilate the healer that stationary by myself, hitting one button yada yada yada. To the higher skilled with gear, um no seeing as they know how to play their classes/specs.

 

Interrupts don't fill up the resolve bar, so as I said 2 CCs + 2 interrupts.

 

What you're trying to push as a theory is that

 

When I do say 400k Healing and you do 400k Damage... I'm OP and need a nerf or you need a buff to be able to do 500k damage. Do you see the red flag that this whole sentence raises? Cuz I've been watching the warzone charts and things are more or less like that. There is no significant difference between healing done and damage done.

 

If that doesn't prove your idea is flawed, I don't know what does.

Edited March 16, 2012 by Arlette

[Bullsith]

Interrupts don't fill up the resolve bar, so as I said 2 CCs + 2 interrupts.

 

What you're trying to push as a theory is that

 

When I do say 400k Healing and you do 400k Damage... I'm OP and need a nerf or you need a buff to be able to do 500k damage. Do you see the red flag that this whole sentence raises? Cuz I've been watching the warzone charts and things are more or less like that. There is no significant difference between healing done and damage done.

 

If that doesn't prove your idea is flawed, I don't know what does.

 

Only difference is when everyone is packing BM gear (and most already are) you can kiss 400k damage bye bye. How's your healing affected.

 

And interrupts are a bad joke vs healers.

[Badlander]

Signed. Dont get me started on heavy armor healers that cant be interupted. ***?!!?

 

Yep, this is a tough one.

[onlyadream]

The only time I feel healers are imbalanced,is when there is three or more of them on one side,and even then only if your side has only one healer at most resulting in imbalanced teams.In other words,healing is fine.

 

Good merc healers are hard to take down 1v1,but even they go down fairly easy with a team mate,assuming equal gear and dps who don't just roll through their rotation waiting for stuff to die.

[AntoniusDelitan]

Balancing heals isn't an easy job and I don't think anyone would argue that. However, there are several instances where I, as an Arsenal Merc, have been involved in trying to nuke a healer with 2 others and none of us can seeing as just as we are about to finish him he is back up to half.

I can last ~5 seconds with 3 DPS on me.

 

He got heals from someone else. That's the ONLY explanation.

[Vember]

If you have 2 people on a healer and you can't take him down... you're obviously doing something wrong.

 

I'm guessing you've never seen a commando in action.

[AntoniusDelitan]

I'm guessing you've never seen a commando in action.

 

A healing commando?

 

Vs. my sniper?

 

Armor debuff -> Snipe -> Followthrough -> Interrupt -> Ambush -> Explosive Probe + Series of Shotsx2 = 1/2 health all by myself.

 

Add a friend, and he's almost dead in ~8 seconds.

Edited March 16, 2012 by AntoniusDelitan

[Teabaker]

I still got no answer to my question: How would you like PvP to be? Attack, make your Rotation and something dies?

[Vember]

A healing commando?

 

Vs. my sniper?

 

Armor debuff -> Snipe -> Followthrough -> Interrupt -> Ambush -> Explosive Probe + Series of Shotsx2 = 1/2 health all by myself.

 

Add a friend, and he's almost dead in ~8 seconds.

 

And that's the way it should be. At some point, around the time Blizzard started catering to every "pro" pvper (laugh), pvp became less about teamwork and more about who had the most healers and the most spammable cc.

 

As for the rest of us, trying to kill a geared healer is a joke at the moment, especially those of the heavy armor variety. At least, if you're melee. Ranged in this game is so easymode I quickly get bored of playing them.

[Ahhmyface]

You're all missing the point.

 

Healers should be able to keep up another tank, dps, or healer. Not themselves. This scenario where a healer can tank an equally geared dps easily, plus do other things, is plain stupid. A healer should have his teammates guarding, taunting, snaring, killing, anybody who messes with the healer. Healers have absolutely no right to tank themselves.

 

I have 2 stuns, an interrupt, and a knockback. Using all these, plus full battlemaster gear (modded for max dps), in deception spec, and using warzone adrenal and power relic, it is still not enough dps to kill a healer that can press 3 buttons. It's a complete joke... DPS classes need a "reduce incoming heals" ability if this is going to persist.

Edited March 16, 2012 by Ahhmyface

[Crazylor]

I'm a Marauder and I believe healing is fine the way it is, if you want healers to have any real impact and feel like they're doing something. They may have huge amounts of healing, but their weakness is t he ability to deny all of those heals.

[Ortof]

Interrupts don't fill up the resolve bar, so as I said 2 CCs + 2 interrupts.

 

What you're trying to push as a theory is that

 

When I do say 400k Healing and you do 400k Damage... I'm OP and need a nerf or you need a buff to be able to do 500k damage. Do you see the red flag that this whole sentence raises? Cuz I've been watching the warzone charts and things are more or less like that. There is no significant difference between healing done and damage done.

 

If that doesn't prove your idea is flawed, I don't know what does.

 

No, you're getting the wrong impression here. It's not about numbers on damage or healing. Nothing to do with the scoreboard at all, so put that to rest. How many DPS does it take to kill a DPS? Basically 1 depending on gear, skill etc. How many DPS does it take to kill only 1 healer?

 

Ok, with that in mind. Put 2 or even 3 healers on one side, now take the amount of DPS it takes to kill 1 healer and put those aside for "healer duty". How many does that leave left on a team with no healers? I know I am speaking hypothetical here and/or a poorly put together premade, but I am speaking just on survivability while being able to still do ones job. Fending off 2 DPS while healing oneself and healing ones team is a bit over the top, now multiply that with multiple healers.

 

Hence the imbalance and like I said, there is no quick fix or even possible fix that I can see, so the whole thing is a wash imho. That doesn't mean that healers don't have a decent advantage over DPS in regards to PVP though.

[Bullsith]

I still got no answer to my question: How would you like PvP to be? Attack, make your Rotation and something dies?

 

As opposed to nothing dying. Yeah I'd go for your version if I could pick.

[Ortof]

I still got no answer to my question: How would you like PvP to be? Attack, make your Rotation and something dies?

 

I know people HATE this when I mention it, but IMHO I would love for a healer to be able to kill something. Have an equal shot at being able to kill any DPS one on one. With that said, on the flip side have a single DPS be able to kill a healer in a 1 on 1 scenario.

 

Ya ya I know group dynamic, group environment etc etc, however if everyone had an equal shot at killing each other wouldn't that be at least somewhat balanced? By no means is this game as bad as others (I used to have a druid that could heal through 5 DPS being the hell out of me) ya not that bad, but the tilting of the balance is still there.

 

People might say that a 1 on 1 balance is boring, my question is why? If you are dependent on your skill as a player coupled with proper gear, why is that boring? The same tactics used today could be put forth in that PVP style as well.

 

And just to clarify, spare me the "go to a FPS if you want 1 on 1 balance", that is such a poor argument in this regard. You know, to date in my MMO playing time I have yet to hear a real valid point not to balance classes to the point where each can kill each other given all things being equal.

[Xsorus]

Only difference is when everyone is packing BM gear (and most already are) you can kiss 400k damage bye bye. How's your healing affected.

 

And interrupts are a bad joke vs healers.

 

...Ok Ignoring the fact you think Interrupts are a bad joke vs healers (and is probably why you're whining about not being able to kill healers)

 

I wanna stress the fact that you think everyone packing BM gear is going to lower damage in the first place..

 

It tells me you don't quite understand how Gear works in this game.. let alone stats, or most of the DPS..

 

Healing is fine as it is in this game.. Bad players on the other hand.. can't be fixed..

[Bullsith]

...Ok Ignoring the fact you think Interrupts are a bad joke vs healers (and is probably why you're whining about not being able to kill healers)

 

I wanna stress the fact that you think everyone packing BM gear is going to lower damage in the first place..

 

It tells me you don't quite understand how Gear works in this game.. let alone stats, or most of the DPS..

 

Healing is fine as it is in this game.. Bad players on the other hand.. can't be fixed..

 

Are you saying that interrupts kills you? Honestly? Um, get gear, or get better. Or both.

 

And I understand very well how gear works, damage scales much less with gear than it scales with damage reduction and healing. And if you don't buy it let's talk in a couple of months.

[Nonnolol]

This is the most ridiculous nonsense I've ever heard from this community, and that' saying a lot (this is the community that has a problem with arsenal mercs in pvp). I've never played an mmo where healers were so easily killed.

 

In WOW, for example, a healer can survive with multiple targets on him for an extended period of time, and this was especially true if individual's failed to land their interrupts (of which there were less of and were typically on longer cds).

 

In SWTOR, on the other hand, a healer is automatically dead once two fairly capable dpsers focus him down. A good and geared marauder alone should be able to completely lock down any healer in this game (two interrupts, one of which is on a 6 SECOND COOLDOWN and two stuns). Additionally, dps in this game is roughly equivalent to healing. My all-time high (720k healing in a wz) is matched by the dps of my friends, meaning that a solo dpser can kill a solo healer even if he doesn't interrupt; he just needs a chain of crits.

 

The problem here, as is always the problem, is that healers are typically paired in premades with other competent players. In other words, they're coordinated. Their coordinated team is stomping your uncoordinated team and that makes you angry. Thus you want healers to be removed from the game so that it's an incoherent dps-fest with little-to-no actual thought required.

 

agreed completely OP. When we come up against a team full of healers we may as well leave warzone, its an exercise in futility trying to win. They stand there and heal each other and never die, be it huttball(far more irritating in this one) or voidstar.

 

How is a team of full healers ever going to kill your ball-handler?

Edited March 16, 2012 by Nonnolol

[Xsorus]

Are you saying that interrupts kills you? Honestly? Um, get gear, or get better. Or both.

 

And I understand very well how gear works, damage scales much less with gear than it scales with damage reduction and healing. And if you don't buy it let's talk in a couple of months.

 

I'm saying I kill healers left and right because of Interrupts, because i'm not a terrible player.

 

Now lets talk about the rest of the mouth dump you just posted..

 

Damage Scales just fine in relation to damage reduction and healing. If everyone is wearing BM gear, then guess what.. Expertise is going to be Canceled out.

 

But I know what you're going to say next "But Healing is increased with Expertise" which is trying to cancel out the 30% healing reduction the bloody healer already has.

 

"But BM has increased armor", which is true, Till you realize that the increased armor is in general a bunch of *** cause pretty much every scary DPS in the game completely ignores Armor in the first place.

 

So really, the only thing more "gear" is going to get you defensive wise in this game.. Is more HP, and I can tell you the difference between Cent vs BM isn't a huge amount, and the difference between BM and champion is even less.

 

In closing, against actual good DPS like myself, if you don't have a second Healer or a Tank to save you, I'm probably going to kill your healer, or Force you to scramble to heal Just yourself and no one else.. In which case i've taken you completely out of the fight and hopefully the rest of my time takes a dump on your team.

Edited March 16, 2012 by Xsorus

[Rotm]

Its hard enough to get people to play healers as it is.

[StefanGun]

This is the most ridiculous nonsense I've ever heard from this community, and that' saying a lot (this is the community that has a problem with arsenal mercs in pvp). I've never played an mmo where healers were so easily killed.

 

In WOW, for example, a healer can survive with multiple targets on him for an extended period of time, and this was especially true if individual's failed to land their interrupts (of which there were less of and were typically on longer cds).

 

In SWTOR, on the other hand, a healer is automatically dead once two fairly capable dpsers focus him down. A good and geared marauder alone should be able to completely lock down any healer in this game (two interrupts, one of which is on a 6 SECOND COOLDOWN and two stuns). Additionally, dps in this game is roughly equivalent to healing. My all-time high (720k healing in a wz) is matched by the dps of my friends, meaning that a solo dpser can kill a solo healer even if he doesn't interrupt; he just needs a chain of crits.

 

The problem here, as is always the problem, is that healers are typically paired in premades with other competent players. In other words, they're coordinated. Their coordinated team is stomping your uncoordinated team and that makes you angry. Thus you want healers to be removed from the game so that it's an incoherent dps-fest with little-to-no actual thought required.

 

 

 

How is a team of full healers ever going to kill your ball-handler?

 

As a Full BM/Rakata geared sentinel I can tell you this is plain wrong, sure undergeared or bad healers I eat for breakfast, but a good healer will be on the move, be guarded and use los, in huttball he can jump around in the middle, cleanse dots and slows. I´m far from being a newb in this game and usually focus on healers only if given the chance. A good healer in huttball can evade uptoo 2 good dps while his friend blasts them away.

[Zekiirah]

In a previous game of mine, it was possible to go full Reaction stat (adds to Defense and +5 to HP each stat point) and still heal in abundance if you played your cards right with how you filled out your gear. I can't say Star Wars even remotely reminds me of this.

 

I'm a Sage healer, therefore, my armor is the lowest there is. I am also more often than not the only healer in a Warzone, whether I queued solo or not. It's frustrating when someone marks me, and more frustrating when a tank can do little to lessen the amount of damage coming at me. Interrupts are used against me very often, too. Generally, when myself or the tank are targeted by 3-4 from the opposing team, I can do little to keep either of us alive when every other healing ability I use is either rendered useless for a few seconds or interrupted altogether while I am stunned or knocked back. I am left with very little room for me to try and keep everyone else alive, and they are being hit for a hell of a lot of damage, too.

 

I've had some great Warzones where this isn't the case, too. I've been able to heal unhindered for the entire game before.

 

Each PvP instance is always a little bit different than the last. I'm useful in one WZ, made useless in the next by an extremely well-coordinated team. I consistently power out at least 400k heals in Warzones and it does not always makes a difference. I'm either in a team with bad coordination, too little DPS, or 3-4 healers (rare) that yes, can keep everyone alive but cannot move forward with objectives because they cannot kill anyone fast enough to complete it. I do not think anything needs to change with heals at this time. Utilizing my CCs, my LoS and tanks with me, I'm still quite far from being invincible.

 

The only thing I'm worried about with healing right now is whether or not I'll ever be chosen for ranked WZs over a heavy healer