Over Powered healing killing PvP

[Bnol]

makes healers too useful

 

what a lot of people miss is that a good team should train whoever is on a healer down

 

allowing a healer to occupy 2 dps before dying is a horrible solution in a 8v 8 setting

 

If you are stalemating the healer 1v1, then you have made it a 7v7 and everything is equal. You choose to bring 2 dps to kill the healer, because of the later gains of allowing your team's dps to have full effect on the rest of the opposition while the healer respawns. You could also choose to CC the healer and focus a dps down.

[Khoraji]

oh please i defined it in another post

 

three times is the charm?

 

"way too useful" - a healer takes two dps + to kill / take out of the fight putting a team with less healers at a numerical disadvantage

 

Also... your forgetting that neither of you are taking damage while attacking the healer. You may not be able to kill him..but he cant kill you either. I call that balance.

[Khoraji]

of course they are invalid since you believe healing in swotor is balanced - i made my points.

 

call them what you will but healing, as it stands in swotor, is, in objective based pvp, not balanced

 

why the heck do you think we see 3+ healers on all preforms

 

3+ healer teams are a joke. Any more than 2 good healers is not an efficient use of space in your 8 man team. 2 good healers can have 1mil combined healing. Add another healer and I bet you they will only have about 1.2 mil combined. Add another and the overhealing just gets worse... your better off with another dps.

[vulup]

Like i said.. this is only a disadvantage if your team is too stupid to have a healer as well. If we took your suggestions, it would just be 8dps vs 8dps in all pvp matches.

 

Diversity in groups should be encouraged, and the only way to make healers useful is to make sure they can survive 1v1 long enough to get help...or else DPS are more useful in almost every single situation.

 

games right now boil down to who has more healing

 

a team with two healers should win against a team with one healer

 

Here is something else to chew on

 

Healing benefits more from expertise against a team with, as will be the case in 1.2, equal gear

 

dps with 100 expertise will still only hit for as much as we do now against someone with 100 expertise

 

a healer, on the other hand, will heal for more the more expertise they rock

 

I am not here to argue

 

really am not

 

I just think the game needs balancing and i hope BW will manage to balance the PVP in Swotor

 

I play a DPS and obviously see things from a "dpsing" POV

 

Healers see it from a healing POV

 

and we all think the grass is greener on the other side

[Bnol]

3+ healer teams are a joke. Any more than 2 good healers is not an efficient use of space in your 8 man team. 2 good healers can have 1mil combined healing. Add another healer and I bet you they will only have about 1.2 mil combined. Add another and the overhealing just gets worse... your better off with another dps.

 

Yeah, got to love those 0-0 coinflip Voidstars with each team having 3 healers.

[Toonicker]

I get locked down and killed by DPS all the time on my sorc healer, and if the DPS knows whats going on I'll lose 75% of the time, it's called Teamwork, A good team is going to shut me down and keep me behind a wall healing no one but myself if I'm the only healer in the match, and obviously if I'm only healing myself my team is vulnerable.

 

this is what I experience ALL the time if I'm the only healer in a match.

 

I dont know about Merc/Commando healers or Op/Scoundrel but Sorc/Sage healing is fine where it is.

Edited March 29, 2012 by Toonicker

[sumfizz]

I dont see the logic that as a dps you should be able to kill a healer 1v1.

 

Really? Amazing. Yeah, it's really awesome making an assault on a feeble minded healer using all your tools to bring him down while he just stands there in one spot doing nothing but spamming 2 buttons. It's a total design failure in case you're missing the sarcasm.

[voigt]

Except that you can ensure that your WZ has at least 1 healer by inviting a healer and group queuing (you could even grab 3 and queue with them!). Instead of taking the initiative and solving the no healer problem yourself, you want the game to punish healers, with longer queues to ensure your 2 healer limit, because you can't be bothered to /friend them and queue with them.

 

The only WZ that you need healers is Voidstar. You can win Huttball and Alderaan without healers.

 

I think you missed the part where I was the healer

[JustTray]

of course they are invalid since you believe healing in swotor is balanced - i made my points.

 

call them what you will but healing, as it stands in swotor, is, in objective based pvp, not balanced

 

why the heck do you think we see 3+ healers on all preforms

 

I've never seen 3 healers in a preform. Drizzle Merc Heals is Full Rakata BM Valor 63. I solo queue almost every time and go vs plenty of premades.

 

Trizzle Sin Tank is Columni/Rakata Valor 55. I cannot solo good healers because I am a dps class playing a tank spec, and while my dps is high, I lose the burst required that you have in deception spec to gain more defensive utility.

 

Tray Jugg Tank is level 48, nearly 49. Best single target tank in the game. I PvP Tank spec and carry nearly every sub 50 game. Cc's are where juggs shine with choke push and slows. No chance he can solo a healer, and really is only fully enjoyable in games where I have heals.

 

See your problem is you rolled Jugg dps, a class WoW DPS Warrior mistake. You've given up too much offensive ability by picking Jugg, a pure tank class, over marauder. Do you realize there's only a difference of 3 attack abilities per different spec? Being a dps jugg doesn't significantly change you from a tank in the same way that being a tank on a sin doesn't make you as good as a jugg tank.

 

I understand where you're coming from. There's times I can't kill a healer on my characters, but to say that you should be able to, is simply wrong. Remember other people are playing those other characters too, they're not bots. If you don't like the idea of healing > dps, you are playing the wrong genre of game entirely. Go play first person shooters if you want that. In RPGs, healing is always superior to dps. You should be thankful that there are class combinations that CAN solo healers, because in almost every MMO before this, that did not exist.

 

Be thankful it is the way it is and stop crying for more.

[Khoraji]

games right now boil down to who has more healing

 

a team with two healers should win against a team with one healer

 

Here is something else to chew on

 

Healing benefits more from expertise against a team with, as will be the case in 1.2, equal gear

 

dps with 100 expertise will still only hit for as much as we do now against someone with 100 expertise

 

a healer, on the other hand, will heal for more the more expertise they rock

 

I am not here to argue

 

really am not

 

I just think the game needs balancing and i hope BW will manage to balance the PVP in Swotor

 

I play a DPS and obviously see things from a "dpsing" POV

 

Healers see it from a healing POV

 

and we all think the grass is greener on the other side

 

3 things to counter the "expertise is more powerful for healers" argument. Which is true..but:

- Power stacks better for DPS,

- Trauma -30% healing

- Merc/Sorc healers getting a big nerf in 1.2

 

I am not saying certain healers are not OP in the current system, but you guys seem to want to take it to the other extreme. They are already nerfing healers in 1.2. Why are we still talking about this?

[Bluetickone]

Individually, healers are not overpowered; nerfs are not required.

 

Collectively, healing is borked. Get 3+ healers in one WZ and its terrible.

 

They just need to limit the number of healers per WZ to 2/side.

 

In fact, just last night we had a civil war with 4 healers on the other side (which was nocapped for a considerable period of time, took about 1 hr to finish). Me and three of the opposing side healers ended with over a 1.5 million heals each. Collectively, it was just north of 8 million heals in a single WZ, thats terrible.

 

You can certainly reach a point where: (1) there are too many healers to focus fire, they can even heal through that; and (2) there arent enough CCs/interrupts to lock them down.

Edited March 29, 2012 by Bluetickone

[Tipkaee]

Do bads still not know how to kill a healer? Dear lord if someone takes more than 20 secs to kill is it OP? If you take someone completely out of the fight than it is mutual, healers should not die instantly to a DPS, that would leave no point in having a healer.

 

Also if you are 1v1ing a healer and they heal them-self and other people than you are a failure of a DPS, thats not the healer being OP thats the DPS being an idiot.

 

Also a team of 3+ healer should never be able to cap anything because they cant kill anything in a reasonable time. As a DPS you should be cheering if the enemy has 3+ healers because you will win the game if your ops group pops all relics and CDs and burn down the healers just one time at an objective. Every game I have with 3+ healers on Voidstar is the easiest defense ever, and the hardest offensive round ever

Edited March 29, 2012 by Tipkaee

[Bnol]

Really? Amazing. Yeah, it's really awesome making an assault on a feeble minded healer using all your tools to bring him down while he just stands there in one spot doing nothing but spamming 2 buttons. It's a total design failure in case you're missing the sarcasm.

 

What healer is spamming two buttons and which two buttons are they spamming?

[Khoraji]

Really? Amazing. Yeah, it's really awesome making an assault on a feeble minded healer using all your tools to bring him down while he just stands there in one spot doing nothing but spamming 2 buttons. It's a total design failure in case you're missing the sarcasm.

 

Seems to be more of a L2P issue on your part if this is happening to you.

[NommNomm]

just to start i dont play a healer class.

 

i agree if the enemy team has 3+ healers in their group you are more or less screwed however if they have 1-2 healers you just need to keep harrassing them so they heal theirselves instead of their team, works for me all the time

[voigt]

I honestly think 2 healers per team is useful and not OP, its when you see 3-4 healers on one side and 0-1 healer on the other that the game feels stupid. Edited April 1, 2012 by LexiCazam
Inappropriate content

[JustTray]

games right now boil down to who has more healing

 

a team with two healers should win against a team with one healer

 

Here is something else to chew on

 

Healing benefits more from expertise against a team with, as will be the case in 1.2, equal gear

 

dps with 100 expertise will still only hit for as much as we do now against someone with 100 expertise

 

a healer, on the other hand, will heal for more the more expertise they rock

 

I am not here to argue

 

really am not

 

I just think the game needs balancing and i hope BW will manage to balance the PVP in Swotor

 

I play a DPS and obviously see things from a "dpsing" POV

 

Healers see it from a healing POV

 

and we all think the grass is greener on the other side

 

10% expertise = 10% more damage, 10% less damage taken, 10% more healing.

 

How is that benefitting healers more exactly and in what situation? Healers don't use the dps gain the same way dpers dont use the heal gains.

 

You're flailing with no real logic or argument so I'll let you be. This is why I told you to stop posting 3 pages ago fyi.

[Bnol]

I think you missed the part where I was the healer

 

You complained that you didn't like solo healing in WZs. Then you talked about not having any healers in the WZ, which is what I quoted. Either way, the solution is to find and /friend other healers. It is easy to do, play some WZs, see who is healing, talk to them after the match, /friend them.

[Alric_Annondu]

So much QQ

[vulup]

Yeah, got to love those 0-0 coinflip Voidstars with each team having 3 healers.

 

maybe its different on my server

 

Every pre-form pub team i have faced has 3 healers

 

the faction imbalance allows them to que as full "preforms" early in the morning.

 

and every ranked team will because they know how to train people with the dps they have, down.

 

and three healers work well in voidstar and aldraan. teams will put a healer on each door in vs and have another healer floating inbetween doors. Same deal with aldraan - have a floating healer.

 

controlling mid with one and supporting the ball carrier with two

 

And three healers work pretty well for huttball. Just make sure to include a maurauder and a darkness assasin and you will always get that ball after the game starts.

[Bluetickone]

10% expertise = 10% more damage, 10% less damage taken, 10% more healing.

 

How is that benefitting healers more exactly and in what situation? Healers don't use the dps gain the same way dpers dont use the heal gains.

 

You're flailing with no real logic or argument so I'll let you be. This is why I told you to stop posting 3 pages ago fyi.

 

Worst troll ever...its obvious how expertise currently inflates healers' prowess. Just compare zero/zero expertise to 700/700. In the later the damage buff/debuff nets out, leaving the healer with a 12.5 percent advantage on heals. 1.2 corrects this, so non-issue.

Edited March 29, 2012 by Bluetickone

[vulup]

10% expertise = 10% more damage, 10% less damage taken, 10% more healing.

 

How is that benefitting healers more exactly and in what situation? Healers don't use the dps gain the same way dpers dont use the heal gains.

 

You're flailing with no real logic or argument so I'll let you be. This is why I told you to stop posting 3 pages ago fyi.

 

 

uhm pretty simple really - healers will heal more with, say 1.2 k expertise but i will still only do the same amount of damage against a target with 1.2 k expertise if i have 1.2 k expertise.

[vulup]

I honestly think 2 healers per team is useful and not OP, its when you see 3-4 healers on one side and 0-1 healer on the other that the game feels stupid.

 

I find facing off against 4 healers teams to be sure wins

Edited April 1, 2012 by LexiCazam
IC - quote

[voigt]

You complained that you didn't like solo healing in WZs. Then you talked about not having any healers in the WZ, which is what I quoted. Either way, the solution is to find and /friend other healers. It is easy to do, play some WZs, see who is healing, talk to them after the match, /friend them.

 

While I stated that my experience was not fun when I solo heal it was more to prove the point that a Healer is not overpowered.

 

1 Healer is weak and focused to death.

2 Healers seems good for an 8v8 match, some cross heal but not impossible to focus one and interrupt the other.

3 Healers is where things get ridiculous and you run into situations that make people want to quit the warzone because no one is dying.

 

My proposed solution is if 4 healers queue for a warzone, instead of putting 3 on one side and 1 on the other, force one (even if a premade) to the other side so its 2v2. This will make the match more fair. FPS games have been balancing teams for years, im sure the code will not be complex. Now this doesn't work out on Empire vs Replubic because you cant just move one to the other side so the only option is to prevent the healer from joining the match until an equal number of healers from the other side has queued. I am not saying its ideal but I would be interested in alternate solutions to the unfair healing advantages.

 

The solution is NOT to nerf individual healers more. its to prevent healer stacking which I think is going to be a huge problem come Rated Warzone 8 man pre-made queues.

[AGx-Spike]

I think the problem (and by problem I mean complaining, deserving or not) is the fact that you don't need to be a competent player to out heal DPS but you do need to be a competent player (or 2v1) to take down a healer.

 

Especially in a 1v1 situation, just to even annoy a healer, you need to time your CC's and stuns just right. There's also the fact that the healers themselves get CC's to use on you and bubbles which makes it harder to take them down. Can it be done? Yes, I do it all the time but I'm not perfect (I play Shadow btw) and I often screw up and hit the wrong button when I mean to CC or sometimes I hit some lag or (for whatever reason, and this happens a lot) Force Wave doesn't go off when I hit the button. When that happens the entire battle can feel like a reset except I don't have any CC's to use for a while. You have to be damn near perfect or outgear the healer.

 

On the other hand, the healer can just stand there and spam heals, stun and snare whenever possible. A good healer will use the terrain as well but for the most part healers (especially better geared ones) can stand there and ignore me and heal themselves and the other guys.

 

I'm not here to cry nerf because I like the challenge of perfection. I play tank classes anyway so I know I'm not meant to burn down healers (when I do play infiltration though it seems to be incredibly easy) but I do understand that there is a bit of a problem and hopefully 1.2 will rectify some of it.

 

For you WoW players, remember when Pally was /faceroll? Healers in SWTOR are in the same boat. While not nearly as OP it requires little to no skill at all to do while combating them does. Not fair for a role that probably the most important in PvP.