Incoming Operative/Scoundrel nerf, again..

[Powderhorn]

Heh, I remember doing that fight a week or so ago. It was absurd, and I was paired up with my "optimum" target. Everyone on vent is all, "What's taking you so long Wes?" "You do **** so much face normally Wes" "Feeling a little gimped, Wes?" I won the fight without an issue, but I was dead last to finish it. Damned auto-facing NPCs :\

[CaptKirk]

This is dumb... ops represent around what 1% of players? THEY ARNT OP i dont even play one and feel they are in a good spot for pvp. They arnt wanted in PVE and they are talking more nerfs...

 

You will lose more people if you DO nerf them than DONT.

 

I rarely post about dev stuff but this makes ZERO sense

[Chaos_Distortion]

Whoever is saying that he's talking about pre-nerfed OPs/Scoundrels is clearly a Biodrone. He's hinting at another incoming nerf to stunlocks, we all know stunlocks weren't possible before the nerf, so he's obviously hinting at a future nerf..

[utuwer]

You cannot stunlock in pre-nerf. The reason is KO filled resolve bar immediately so it was impossible to flash bang or dirty kick after KO. Instead of just fixing buffs stack and surge, BW decided to nerf burst of Sco/OP's burst also and ... forgot to give them the "trade-off part".

 

Patch note for 1.2 is not up yet, so theoretically Sco/Op still has some hopes to get some bones from BW.

 

The best scenario is:

- BW would actually give us a clear definition of Sco/Op Dps role - Burst or Sustain (if burst, please convert back to prenerf skills. If sustain, lower our cds, energy cost and/or higher energy regen rate. I prefer the second option),

- A real gap closer (Please, stealth is not a gap closer),

- Better defensive tools (def screen must absorb the same amount dmg of Bubble in trade off 45 sec cd or lower the cd - 45 sec for absorbing few basic attacks is just lame),

- Fix the stealth detect+agro range of bosses/elites,

- And last but not least something else, not that beer holder hat in the trailer.

 

The worst scenario is BW would not find any solution for the class and ask all of us to reroll Sin/Shadow or Sorc/Sage.

[Veksis]

I have an OP, Marauder and Sorc.

 

I can say with ease that my OP is WAY overpowered.

 

i have tone of CC, heals, stealth and I do as much damage as anyone.

 

My Marauder and Sorc are a distant 2nd (sorc) and 3rd (mar).

 

The rpblem is there is no real tradeoff in ability.

 

I can be a really good healer AND a crazy dpser at the same time.

 

And with my 5 or so cc abilities, I almost never die, because when i egt close, I can simply exit the fight via cloaking screen or flashbangs.

 

If yuo try to argue that Gunslinger or OP are not overpowered, you are delusional.

 

Play ANY other class and you quickly realize how absurd the classes are right now.

[Xaearth]

I have an OP, Marauder and Sorc.

 

I can say with ease that my OP is WAY overpowered.

...

The rpblem is there is no real tradeoff in ability.

 

I can be a really good healer AND a crazy dpser at the same time.

 

And with my 5 or so cc abilities, I almost never die, because when i egt close, I can simply exit the fight via cloaking screen or flashbangs.

 

I'm just gonna put this out there because it's pretty clear from your post (if it isn't the outright lies of a troll) that it is applicable:

 

Please understand that comparing damage between classes at an arbitrary level (16) is not going to yield any useful insight into power differences between classes.

 

Edit: Scratch that. Judging by your posting history you are either severely intoxicated or bought someone else's account.

 

I don't know how else to explain you could go from saying the QQ about Operative burst that lead to the nerf was unjustified 2 months ago to saying Operatives are a ranged class less than 2 hours ago.

 

The ranged classes in this game have a RIDICULOUS advantage over melee classes.

 

Take Gunslingers or Operatives for example.

 

No only can they do damage from range, but they an ABSURD amount of CC abilities - knockdowns, flashbangs, stuns, knockbacks AND THEN STEALTH.....

 

...and did I mention they can heal!?

Edited March 15, 2012 by Xaearth

[Kheldras]

I have an OP, Marauder and Sorc.

 

I can say with ease that my OP is WAY overpowered.

 

i have tone of CC, heals, stealth and I do as much damage as anyone.

 

My Marauder and Sorc are a distant 2nd (sorc) and 3rd (mar).

 

The rpblem is there is no real tradeoff in ability.

 

I can be a really good healer AND a crazy dpser at the same time.

 

And with my 5 or so cc abilities, I almost never die, because when i egt close, I can simply exit the fight via cloaking screen or flashbangs.

 

If yuo try to argue that Gunslinger or OP are not overpowered, you are delusional.

 

Play ANY other class and you quickly realize how absurd the classes are right now.

 

Hmm.. whatever you are smoking.. stop it.

 

If its so overpowered, i wonder why the Agent class is the least played in the Empire, and 2nd last played in the whole game.. only Smugglers are even less.

 

Good Healer and good DPS.. sure, we can use 2 abilities every GCD, but psst dont tell.

 

Actually its quite obvious that you might have your Maro and Sorc, but you cleaerly never played a Smuggler/Agent beyond 16.

[Ohitei]

FOr all frustrated people in this game We have to nerf OP/SCound and not sage/sor cause they are "so many". you must understand that sucking bullet point... I cannot.

 

 

 

Thanks Bionaab I am going to be done aswell.

 

 

 

First thing first, it would be great to fix french translation in our template before any nerf in respect of our comunity...

[Agemnon]

What's funny is that he mentions that hardly anyone plays scoundrels/operatives, but then continues to say that people will quit when they face teams of them.........

 

The more i read from these guys, the more I feel like they really have no idea what is going on in their game.

 

I noticed this too =( Where are these operative teams coming from if I've never seen them? They would win because they'd be an obvious premade with an actual strategy and have some healers.

[Wren_Atticus]

I'd love to play with a full team of Scoundrels, Sawbones and Scrappers.

[Liberate]

But an operative can go invisible...always gets the jump on ya, leaves ya cc'ed while doing damage, so annoying its unbeliveable. I'm a sage healer and they just waltz through defensive lines invisible and mess you up big time, easily the most annoying job, perma cc'ed till death sometimes by an invisble guy. Oviously it needs nurfing.

 

My quote of your post found numerous spelling errors you made, it even underlined them for you. Your inability to even correct mistakes TOLD to you, tells me you probably aren't the best at pvp, so you shouldn't be calling for nerfs.

[Liberate]

I have an OP, Marauder and Sorc.

 

I can say with ease that my OP is WAY overpowered.

 

i have tone of CC, heals, stealth and I do as much damage as anyone.

 

My Marauder and Sorc are a distant 2nd (sorc) and 3rd (mar).

 

The rpblem is there is no real tradeoff in ability.

 

I can be a really good healer AND a crazy dpser at the same time.

 

And with my 5 or so cc abilities, I almost never die, because when i egt close, I can simply exit the fight via cloaking screen or flashbangs.

 

If yuo try to argue that Gunslinger or OP are not overpowered, you are delusional.

 

Play ANY other class and you quickly realize how absurd the classes are right now.

 

You need to park your sorc if you think that an OP/scoundrel > sorc

[-xHc-]

Bioware believes that Operatives/Scoundrels are still OPd, we're all doomed. I'm officially done with this game after reading this interview..

 

Interview Source: http://www.darthhater.com/articles/swtor-news/19979-guild-summit-interview-with-georg-zoeller

 

 

bet you dont quit.

[Wastrelz]

 

Patch note for 1.2 is not up yet, so theoretically Sco/Op still has some hopes to get some bones from BW.

 

The best scenario is:

- BW would actually give us a clear definition of Sco/Op Dps role - Burst or Sustain (if burst, please convert back to prenerf skills. If sustain, lower our cds, energy cost and/or higher energy regen rate. I prefer the second option),

- A real gap closer (Please, stealth is not a gap closer),

- Better defensive tools (def screen must absorb the same amount dmg of Bubble in trade off 45 sec cd or lower the cd - 45 sec for absorbing few basic attacks is just lame),

- Fix the stealth detect+agro range of bosses/elites,

- And last but not least something else, not that beer holder hat in the trailer.

 

The worst scenario is BW would not find any solution for the class and ask all of us to reroll Sin/Shadow or Sorc/Sage.

 

I'm in agreement. I'm at the point now where I've about given up on the class for DPS. Healing is still a valid option. But that 1v1 fight in EV makes it pretty clear to everyone that our DPS is pretty bad over all. I doubt there is any class actually spec'd for DPS that would do worse than our scoundrels. Yes, I know, we can't use our "from behind" skills, but still it's pretty sad (a combat log would help prove this one way or the other).

 

What seems most incredible to me is that the people I hear complaining about operative/scoundrel being OP only mean that they think they themselves should be OP and nobody should be allowed to beat them. A Vanguard was complaining to me about it, and i responded that he was being ridiculous, the guy who liked to harpoon people in Huttball and drop them right in the trap, complaining that an operative who jumped him was OP!

 

I think the devs were right to nerf the 5-second stun from stealth. But they went too far in nerfing the DPS. I play the other classes as well, and in PvP matches, my scoundrel consistently comes in behind all of them significantly. I'm the same player with the same amound of skill on each class, so I really don't think it's MY fault.

 

In other MMO's I've played that also feature PvE, there has been a tendancy for the devs, in trying to correct some kind of problem, to over-correct. That's what seems to me to have happened here. Unfortunately, for those other MMO's, once they overcorrect, they tend to leave it that way and refuse to correct the overcorrection. I hope SWTOR does not follow in those footsteps.

Edited March 16, 2012 by Wastrelz

[Xaearth]

I noticed this too =( Where are these operative teams coming from if I've never seen them? They would win because they'd be an obvious premade with an actual strategy and have some healers.

 

I've heard several rumors of some server with a premade duo of two Concealment Operatives coordinating over voice chat and wrecking whatever targets they pick.

 

I've yet to learn what server it is though. I think the players are too afraid to admit the WZ PUGs on that server suck that badly.

[Theagg]

I've heard several rumors of some server with a premade duo of two Concealment Operatives coordinating over voice chat and wrecking whatever targets they pick.

 

I've yet to learn what server it is though. I think the players are too afraid to admit the WZ PUGs on that server suck that badly.

 

Well, not used voice chat in wz's but I can certainly say that two of us, as Scoundrels, certainly have wrecked chosen targets. (But, not always, depends on the target and their current PvP ranking)

 

But then again, a team of two or three scorcerors have repeatedly wrecked and rapidly destroyed any single target they have chosen, including me as s Scoundrel when out of stealth. (advantage to them being they do it from range)

 

Point being, Scoundrels/Ops can do it from stealth, Sorcerors/Sages can do it in the open. In fact, any 'team' who chose to work together and focus fire a target can pretty much wreck that target. Stealth and burst isn't a requirment.

[LordExozone]

Point being, Scoundrels/Ops can do it from stealth, Sorcerors/Sages can do it in the open. In fact, any 'team' who chose to work together and focus fire a target can pretty much wreck that target. Stealth and burst isn't a requirment.

 

 

While this is true, the fact that you can see those sorcerers makes all the difference. You can prepare for it, even evade them. With stealth classes you don't have that avenue.

 

Personally I did think Operatives & Scoundrels were/are too powerful with the burst - stun - stun - vanish - burst sequence. And this has now been diminished by the longer cooldown time. But I'd rather have them buff other classes to have a counter to it (i.e. better ways to pull stealth classes out of stealth)

[Ich_Bin]

While this is true, the fact that you can see those sorcerers makes all the difference. You can prepare for it, even evade them. With stealth classes you don't have that avenue.

 

Personally I did think Operatives & Scoundrels were/are too powerful with the burst - stun - stun - vanish - burst sequence. And this has now been diminished by the longer cooldown time. But I'd rather have them buff other classes to have a counter to it (i.e. better ways to pull stealth classes out of stealth)

 

1) 2 Assassins could do the exact same thing as 2 Scoundrel. Only a lot better.

2) "burst stun burst" is really the only thing that Scoundrels CAN do. They have no other utility besides that. So they HAVE to be excel at the one thing that they actually can do...which they don't.

 

 

The 1.2 patch notes are a straight kick in the nuts for any Operative/Scoundrel player that isn't specced into healing. Way to kick someone who is already on the ground.

[Chaos_Distortion]

I predicted the final nail on the coffin for us, I knew it was going to happen. These developers are simply incompetent. For all the doubters in this thread that thought George was talking about pre nerfed OPs/Scoundrels, you owe me an apology.

[Chaos_Distortion]

Correct. OP, please actually read before starting a freakout thread.

Where are the people like you now, after the 1.2 patch notes were posted, huh? Where are you now?

[Quintan]

I have an idea lets all roll Jedi, yeah that's the plan Bioware just wants Jedi.

 

A wz with nothing but Consulars and Knights what a a beauty, who needs the other classes?

 

 

My only consolation is that this game has only one way to go from here and that's down the drain..

 

GW2 is Originality, creativity and no-one wants you to pay for beta or anything else swtor charges for.

Edited March 17, 2012 by Quintan

[Ich_Bin]

I predicted the final nail on the coffin for us, I knew it was going to happen. These developers are simply incompetent. For all the doubters in this thread that thought George was talking about pre nerfed OPs/Scoundrels, you owe me an apology.

 

Yep. I gess that would be me. So here it comes: Sorry, I was wrong.

 

 

It has been proven once more that giving the developers the benefit of the doubt is pointless. I have learned my lesson.

[Kheldras]

I predicted the final nail on the coffin for us, I knew it was going to happen. These developers are simply incompetent. For all the doubters in this thread that thought George was talking about pre nerfed OPs/Scoundrels, you owe me an apology.

 

Apology given, i thought he meant the last nerf....

 

Simpls speechless to nerf even further. I have a Scrapper, and recently started an Agent / Operative cause i liked the Agent story... i liked the play, but really, can anyone, anyone from the Dev team come down here and really reason those nerfs for us?

Maybe its a huge buff, and we all just dont see it, but my faith in the Devs is shattered.

 

I told me "i wait for 1.2 Notes"... i thought they buff a bit, its the least played class after all. FOR A REASON. My Vanguard was a very nice experience.

 

Ah well.. i guess i wait for the next MMO, "Secret World" looks nice.. sadly they wont be Star Wars, bu if i see the rediculous armous of 1.2, i wonder if THIS game here, ist still Star Wars...

 

Anyway, Sub runs out tomorrow, and i just CANT get myself to resub... maybe another month, but... seeing that this (1.2) is supposed to be the future of "the next gen Story Driven MMO". Well maybe i look in in a few months, might be its F2P then. Im not in rage, im just sad.

Edited March 17, 2012 by Kheldras

[CaptainInsano]

Props to the OP for calling this nerf. I never thought in a million year BW-Mythic was incompetent enough to further nerf the class most players already regard as the worst in game. Luckily I already have an alt so I can eek a few more hours of fun out of this game until the heavy hitters come out, but what a kick in the nuts for Scoundrel/Operative only players. Some dev definitely has an axe to grind with this class. Edited March 17, 2012 by CaptainInsano

[Chaos_Distortion]

Props to the OP for calling this nerf. I never thought in a million year BW-Mythic was incompetent enough to further nerf the class most players already regard as the worst in game. Luckily I already have an alt so I can eek a few more hours of fun out of this game until the heavy hitters come out, but what a kick in the nuts for Scoundrel/Operative only players. Some dev definitely has an axe to grind with this class.

Yep, after playing MMOs since 1997 Ultima Online pre-trammel I can spot an arrogant pos developer from a mile away and I knew that Georg was talking about post nerfed OPs/Scoundrels.

Edited March 17, 2012 by Chaos_Distortion