"War Hero" Tier in 1.2

[Incendergel]

Rankings (ELO == good) and tournaments are a far better method of "progression" than gear tiers.

 

And we see how well that works in another game through what now, 10 seasons? Season one you couldn't stop a holy paladin for the life of you - trust me, I was one. Changes. What happened next season?

 

If you go through all the seasons soon even the publisher/developers knew what everyone already did. You can't balance PvE with PvP and soon removed any of the top PvP rewards to what exactly? 2v2 teams. Why? Because some class / combos just worked that much better than anything else. So now you had 3v3 and 5v5 rewarding top items.

 

To sum this up even the ELO and tournaments fail because at the end of the day there are certain class/combo's that work better than the rest regardless of skill. It has been proven time and time again in the other MMO which we won't name.

 

We are just now starting to see class change or house keeping as it was presented. The other MMO changes sheets more than a hotel housekeeper does if we look at their class changes.

Edited March 14, 2012 by Incendergel

[Incendergel]

tldr, feel exactly like the person above me

 

I come to read the forums once in a while, and all i see is crying... and i really dont understand this. You wanna be rewarded for your time in game, and you want to feel exclusive, you are basically getting it... the looks of gear is your reward...

Why would you wanna distance yourself from "normal" people and have no competition whatsoever (gear stat wise, where your skill wont be noticed) is what i dont understand... Is it that you feel want to be special, just because you spend more time in game, you should have better stats gear and still play with casuals? I think that would be alright, but have your own bracket for pvp for it, which is basically what you are getting anyway, ranked? If you are skilled, enjoy the game, play with casuals and beat them with your own skill.

 

Was thinking about gladiators a sec ago, imagine if the champ had a machine gun, and the challengers all had swords... how would that turn out... just feels kinda the same here. Stop the crying, let them try to balance the game, give you something new... See if you enjoy it, dont cry about something you have not yet experienced.

 

Because how would you feel if the only difference between tier raiding was the color of your armor?

[Nessirin]

Because how would you feel if the only difference between tier raiding was the color of your armor?

 

It already is? There isn't a different model between the tiers lol. You don't feel more powerful than you were before if you move up in difficulty according to your gear. In fact, you start feeling weaker on most fights because of the increase in damage and health.

 

 

PvP doesn't have different tiers of difficulty, so there is no need for huge variety of stats. PvP should be about skill, not faceroll gear.

Edited March 14, 2012 by Nessirin

[Incendergel]

It already is? There isn't a different model between the tiers lol. You don't feel more powerful than you were before if you move up in difficulty according to your gear. In fact, you start feeling weaker on most fights because of the increase in damage and health.

.

 

So what you are saying is that there is no difference between the various gear / tier levels? I don't think so. Tionese, columi, and rakata all yield different set bonus AND are of a higher item level. Edit: And offer higher item mods in which you can pull out to use in Orange gear if looks are a issue.

 

So I'll ask again. What incentive would you have to do a hard mode over a normal mode if the only difference was the color of the reward?

Edited March 14, 2012 by Incendergel

[_droider_]

I'm completely surprised how no one has mentioned the possibility that the gear obtained through ranked WZs might NOT be better than BM. Is it confirmed that the gear is to be named after the "War Hero" title or is this just pure speculation?

 

Whatever the named sets will be, there's no way they'll be easy to obtain AND better than BM or Champion (by easy I mean easier, since champ was pretty easy to get). BW wouldn't do that, contrary to popular belief.

[Incendergel]

I'm completely surprised how no one has mentioned the possibility that the gear obtained through ranked WZs might NOT be better than BM. Is it confirmed that the gear is to be named after the "War Hero" title or is this just pure speculation?

 

Whatever the named sets will be, there's no way they'll be easy to obtain AND better than BM or Champion (by easy I mean easier, since champ was pretty easy to get). BW wouldn't do that, contrary to popular belief.

 

Have you played a warzone yet and then look at how much valor you gained It makes that post BM grind a breeze.

[MPagano]

So what you are saying is that there is no difference between the various gear / tier levels? I don't think so. Tionese, columi, and rakata all yield different set bonus AND are of a higher item level. Edit: And offer higher item mods in which you can pull out to use in Orange gear if looks are a issue.

 

So I'll ask again. What incentive would you have to do a hard mode over a normal mode if the only difference was the color of the reward?

 

You gotta unhook from this train of thought, man. You keep comparing the two when they're fundamentally different.

 

If PvE gear didn't provide a stat bonus , there would be no progression in raids because you couldn't take on the next, tougher boss.

 

The only reason there are stat differences is to keep up with inflation of NPCs. That's it.

[MPagano]

I'm completely surprised how no one has mentioned the possibility that the gear obtained through ranked WZs might NOT be better than BM. Is it confirmed that the gear is to be named after the "War Hero" title or is this just pure speculation?

 

Whatever the named sets will be, there's no way they'll be easy to obtain AND better than BM or Champion (by easy I mean easier, since champ was pretty easy to get). BW wouldn't do that, contrary to popular belief.

 

So far, what we know is that war hero gear will not have a requirement, it will cost credits, and it will be used in ranked WZs. It sounds like they're just giving everyone a fresh start in terms of gear. I would expect that moving up the ladders will in turn give you access to better gear. This woul dbe fine since anyone in your tier would have the same gear and thus competitive PVP can take place.

[Dego_Locc]

You gotta unhook from this train of thought, man. You keep comparing the two when they're fundamentally different.

 

If PvE gear didn't provide a stat bonus , there would be no progression in raids because you couldn't take on the next, tougher boss.

 

The only reason there are stat differences is to keep up with inflation of NPCs. That's it.

 

Personally I think you should unhook from the train of thought that PVP in an MMO should be more like an FPS.

 

But of course that's just my opinion against yours and neither of us are budging on that one.

[_droider_]

Have you played a warzone yet and then look at how much valor you gained It makes that post BM grind a breeze.

 

Everyone now gains 2k valor max, plus MVP votes. At 54, it's over 50k to 55 (100k@79); that's nothing to laugh at, considering it's only one level. If you do nothing but play this game 17hr/day (like some people i know), then obviously it seems like a breeze to get. Normal people still have to grind out rank 60, and then start building their BM set. I've been pvp'n regularly (almost always completing WZ dailies, zero ilum) since release (sans a week or two-ish) and I'm only 54. If Ilum had action more than once a month on our server, it'd probably be a different story.

 

tldr; BM is still a grind with the recent valor/ilum quest changes.

[MPagano]

Personally I think you should unhook from the train of thought that PVP in an MMO should be more like an FPS.

 

But of course that's just my opinion against yours and neither of us are budging on that one.

 

Yeah, I think we're fundamentally different, which is fine.

 

I should clarify, although I've done it enough in this thread, that I have not once said anything about FPS games. FPS games are totally different from MMOs. In an FPS, everyone is the same. Even where you can choose your weapon loadouts, it's a choice that can be made in every match. MMOs are very different for reasons I don't have time to ellucidate.

 

You seem to be unable to displace your perspective, so anything that goes against your conventional wisdom must be perverted into something simpler and easier to defeat. Conversely, I've acknowledged others' competing view points because most of them have been equally valid. I understand that there's no ultimate truth to be revealed here, it's simply a matter of tastes. Luckily, there's more than one type of MMO in the world.

 

I've made my points very clearly, some agree some disagree. There's no right or wrong from my perspective. There's simply a way I would prefer versus a way I wouldn't prefer. For you, though, I'm absolutely wrong and nothing works the way I am suggesting. Fortunately for me, that doesn't change the reality that things already work the way I've described and will continue to do so whether it's in this game or not. There's no recourse for you aside from making reductivist or existential non-sequitors.

 

Of everyone opposing me in this thread, you've been the least sophisticated in your responses.

 

And now, I'm going to play outside! Somewhere I'm sure we'll never cross paths.

Edited March 14, 2012 by MPagano

[Incendergel]

You gotta unhook from this train of thought, man. You keep comparing the two when they're fundamentally different.

 

If PvE gear didn't provide a stat bonus , there would be no progression in raids because you couldn't take on the next, tougher boss.

 

The only reason there are stat differences is to keep up with inflation of NPCs. That's it.

 

They are different, i agree. Honest.

 

The problem is we have people coming in saying they want easy mode PvP, easy access to gear, Utopia and all that golden bombs of light and love. Yet it doesn't work that way.

 

There has to be an incentive to play PvP. Those of us who only PvP will lose interest rather quickly - as you and I both said via a former MMO. So my argument is simply how would you like it if PvE was treated like that?

 

It seems from what people are saying that they wouldn't. Well, we don't like it either and thus our complaints or bias.

[Incendergel]

Everyone now gains 2k valor max.

 

Yes, somewhat truthful here 2k max for the first four medals...you can still earn more.

 

If you haven't, or anyone else, google the swtor valor graph. My point is that prior to the change it was a grind. Post change it is half the grind if not less. Right or wrong, it made a difference.

[Twor]

BW stated Valor is just a prestige stat.

 

I doubt there will be gear exclusive for Valor 70+.

 

The 65ish speeder looks kind of like an A-wing, i'd like an x-wing speeder for rank 75 or so Or just some other nice (nongearwise improvements) gimmicks

[Cyclopean]

Patch notes for 1.2 PTR says that War Hero gear requires ranked commendations AND the BM counterpart.

 

I'm happy.

[Varicite]

Everyone now gains 2k valor max, plus MVP votes.

 

You have this wrong. You get 2k valor max from medals, plus MVP votes, plus winning the WZ.

 

It's usually ~3k valor per win for me.

.

Edited March 17, 2012 by Varicite

[Deirhese]

Battlemaster Gear is now bought soley with warzone commendations, champion through credits and I assume centurion is replaced with the entry level blue pvp gear for credits. Then there is the War Hero gear worth ranked warzone commendations. Some War Heo gear I saw also had a rating requirement. Edited March 17, 2012 by Deirhese

[bakanoshidoshi]

Just to come correct as a PvPer, my bragging rights are that my toon beats the h*ll out of his opponents and they fear him. Gear is of no consequence in this regard...

 

you're so right.

 

If i get beat by someone with same or less comparable gear. I'm gonna say "**** that guy is a freaking good pvper" . But it'll just be "oh he beat me cause his gear is better."

 

I remember a time when pvp was about skill and not gear (waaay before what you kids call world of warcraft). But there is no fun if you get steamed roll by another group in the best pvp gear, not get coms or valor for losing. This'll make me just quit pvping and i can see others as well.

 

I play on light PvE server, so PvP on ilum is non existent, and wz for level 50s pop 2-3 times per hour. So those who get to BM rank really earned it on my server.