Please don't trivialize PVP gear in 1.2

[Malkara]

First of all let me say, NO ONE but Bio ware knows, at this point exactly the cost/amount of effort required to get War Hero gear in 1.2

 

That said, the perceived notion is that Bio ware is going to trivialize, and 'give away' (welfare epics more or less) War Hero gear to anyone that participates in ranked WZ's. Please don't let this be the case. Many of us who love PVP ad out forth the time and effort should not be penalized, (IE allowing ANYONE access to war Hero Gear) we should be rewarded for our efforts. Again we don't know the exact details on how much and how hard the gear will be to acquire to through Rated WZ's, but it should go with out saying that those who put forth the time and effort to PVP and play to the best they can get REWARDED with access to War Hero gear.

 

I know this is a touchy subject, PVPer's want the Risk/Reward, and Gain access to pvp gear through time and effort while PVEer's just want the gear handed to them so they don't get stomped in PVP. If PVE players will have to work for gear once Nightmare mode is fixed, i feel that PVP players should also have to work just as hard to get BIS gear for PVP. It will be a huge mistake, and may even cause the loss of a substantial player base if PVP gear is dumbed down to the level that even the slightest or least effort in rated WZ results in access to the BIS pvp gear.

 

SIDE NOTE I know player play time is a factor in this decision, as most often those that play the most get the most, I am sort of OK with making lower lvl PVP gear more accessible to casual player, BUT please please require the BIS PVP gear substantial dedication and investment to gain access to this gear just like PVE nightmare mode will require.

[Bovinity]

PVPer's want the Risk/Reward, and Gain access to pvp gear through time and effort while PVEer's just want the gear handed to them so they don't get stomped in PVP.

 

You got that backwards. PvPers don't care about gear. The people that take gear so seriously are PvE-minded players that fancy themselves awesome PvPers when they gib some poor 12k hp sorcerer.

[Twor]

You got that backwards. PvPers don't care about gear. The people that take gear so seriously are PvE-minded players that fancy themselves awesome PvPers when they gib some poor 12k hp sorcerer.

 

Be it as it may be, those are a huge % of the people crowding the WZs nevertheless

[Striders]

It is my understanding that you would not be able to wear War Hero gear without a Valor Rank of 70 anyways, correct?

 

That requirement alone would mean that there is a substantial amount of effort needed to even qualify to wear the gear. I am almost 17 days played time (leveled to 50 and then PVP'ed exclusively) and am only at Valor Rank 65 right now.

 

So giving out War Hero gear is not going to be Welfare epics... it will still take a great deal of dedication and time IMO.

Edited March 12, 2012 by Striders

[Khoraji]

It is my understanding that you would not be able to wear War Hero gear without a Valor Rank of 70 anyways, correct?

 

That requirement alone would mean that there is a substantial amount of effort needed to even qualify to wear the gear. I am almost 17 days played time (leveled to 50 and then PVP'ed exclusively) and am only at Valor Rank 65 right now.

 

So giving out War Hero gear is not going to be Welfare epics... it will still take a great deal of dedication and time IMO.

 

no there will be no valor requirement on any PvP gear anymore.

[trakata]

Nope, War Hero gear will not have a valor requirement. It will require warzone comms from ranked PVP play.

 

However, nothing has been mentioned about how long it will actually take to get the gear (frequency of drops, comms cost, etc.). It's honestly too early to tell what things will be like, so a lot of the QQing is for nothing.

[Apocalypse-]

You got that backwards. PvPers don't care about gear. The people that take gear so seriously are PvE-minded players that fancy themselves awesome PvPers when they gib some poor 12k hp sorcerer.

 

Yep. People that actively seek an advantage that is only gained by time played aren't looking for competition. And I play an awful lot. I just don't think that I need stats to show from it. Cosmetic stuff? Absolutely. BIS gear? Why would I want a situation where winning is that much easier?

Edited March 12, 2012 by Apocalypse-

[Arkerus]

I'm so SICK of posting about this but I feel that I must.

 

 

Grinding out tons of hours in front of your computer does not entitle you to "better" gear than everyone else.

 

PvP is an equal footing game. Yes, a winner can get gear faster but everyone, win or lose has to eventually get to the same gear everyone else has.

 

 

A true PvP player wants to be the best on equal footing. A true player doesn't care if they have equal gear.

 

Better colors, options, designs, titles, credits can be available for the winners but everyone must have access to the gear.

[Dego_Locc]

First of all let me say, NO ONE but Bio ware knows, at this point exactly the cost/amount of effort required to get War Hero gear in 1.2

 

That said, the perceived notion is that Bio ware is going to trivialize, and 'give away' (welfare epics more or less) War Hero gear to anyone that participates in ranked WZ's. Please don't let this be the case. Many of us who love PVP ad out forth the time and effort should not be penalized, (IE allowing ANYONE access to war Hero Gear) we should be rewarded for our efforts. Again we don't know the exact details on how much and how hard the gear will be to acquire to through Rated WZ's, but it should go with out saying that those who put forth the time and effort to PVP and play to the best they can get REWARDED with access to War Hero gear.

 

I know this is a touchy subject, PVPer's want the Risk/Reward, and Gain access to pvp gear through time and effort while PVEer's just want the gear handed to them so they don't get stomped in PVP. If PVE players will have to work for gear once Nightmare mode is fixed, i feel that PVP players should also have to work just as hard to get BIS gear for PVP. It will be a huge mistake, and may even cause the loss of a substantial player base if PVP gear is dumbed down to the level that even the slightest or least effort in rated WZ results in access to the BIS pvp gear.

 

SIDE NOTE I know player play time is a factor in this decision, as most often those that play the most get the most, I am sort of OK with making lower lvl PVP gear more accessible to casual player, BUT please please require the BIS PVP gear substantial dedication and investment to gain access to this gear just like PVE nightmare mode will require.

They confirmed it was better than BM gear, and that anyone regardless of valor rank could wear it, even someone who just turned 50. They said they would be earned by competing(not winning) in rated warzones.

 

So from what I would gather from that is ppl can grind to 50, then afk all day for a week or so, maybe less in rated warzones and have a full set of the top teir PVP gear, and have eaten their carrot too early.

 

Then what?

 

How many who only PVP will continue paying a subscription to a game where nobody cares about the tiny color carrot, or mount carrot(that you will never use if you all you do is pvp anyway)?

 

Not many I suspect.

Edited March 12, 2012 by Dego_Locc

[Dego_Locc]

I'm so SICK of posting about this but I feel that I must.

 

 

Grinding out tons of hours in front of your computer does not entitle you to "better" gear than everyone else.

 

PvP is an equal footing game. Yes, a winner can get gear faster but everyone, win or lose has to eventually get to the same gear everyone else has.

 

 

A true PvP player wants to be the best on equal footing. A true player doesn't care if they have equal gear.

 

Better colors, options, designs, titles, credits can be available for the winners but everyone must have access to the gear.

 

Well according to your definition of a "True PvP player", I don't think there are that many honestly. Not enough to carry or merit a substantial part of the subscriber base. I think a lot of pvpers will leave without gear progression, wether you consider them "True" (lol) or not.

 

And in the end that will affect the game.

 

It will be even more geared to just casual pver's that is where the majority of the money is at. Although everyone else who ever tried to copy WOW, has yet to pull it off and instead kill their game.

Edited March 12, 2012 by Dego_Locc

[Arkerus]

Well according to your definition of a "True PvP player", I don't think there are many. Not enough to carry or merit a substantial part of the subscriber base. I think a lot of pvpers will leave without gear progression, wether you consider them "True" (lol) or not.

 

And in the end that will affect the game.

 

And we'll wave goodbye to them.

 

I really don't care if they leave or stay. PvP gear has to be available to everyone.

 

Saying the subscriber base will fall is silly speculation at best.

 

There can be a progression but it can't lock people out with rank barriers, etc.

Edited March 12, 2012 by Arkerus

[VoidJustice]

Pvp'er = one who loves Pvp. (these folks look forward to more targets)

Loothorde = one who loves gear. (these folks will be upset)

 

Not sure I understand the confusion.

 

Pvp'ers just wanna pvp...

 

p.s. Your gear is already trivial, in comparison to the force...

 

hey get yer qq outta my pew pew

Edited March 12, 2012 by VoidJustice

[Dego_Locc]

And we'll wave goodbye to them.

 

I really don't care if they leave or stay. PvP gear has to be available to everyone.

 

Saying the subscriber base will fall is silly speculation at best.

 

There can be a progression but it can't lock people out with rank barriers, etc.

You'll see. We disagree, but I have seen this before, a few times. The game will suffer when most pvpers give up on it and wont give it a second chance. Sadly a lot of ppl give a game just one chance, and not a second one, they(the devs) get one shot to impress with PVP, and overall I think most can agree they have not done that. You're blind if you think a lot haven't given up on the game already. And even blinder to think that it wont effect you if/when more do.

Edited March 12, 2012 by Dego_Locc

[Celebrus]

So from what I would gather from that is ppl can grind to 50, then afk all day for a week or so, maybe less in rated warzones and have a full set of the top teir PVP gear, and have eaten their carrot too early.

 

Translation:

 

I have absolutely no idea what the upcoming changes entail. They could require massive effort and time spent in rated warzones to acquire this new war hero gear. It might be more of an undertaking than BM was, who knows? But rather than waiting for anything concrete, I'm going to spit my opinion on the matter as fact, pretend I know *** I am talking about, and then proceed to gloom and doom this forum the **** up.

[Arkerus]

You'll see. We disagree, but I have seen this before, a few times. The game will suffer when most pvpers give up on it and wont give it a second chance. Sadly a lot of ppl give a game just one chance, and not a second one, they(the devs) get one shot to impress with PVP, and overall I think most can agree they have not done that. You're blind if you think a lot haven't given up on the game already. And even blinder to think that it wont effect you if/when more do.

 

ok dude! Marking this for future reference. Let me know when the population plummets.

[Anrix]

Consider the easy access to PvP gear a bolster buff for level 50s. If you outperformed from level 10-49 you have nothing to worry about. If you sucked at PvP until you became battlemaster, consider retiring. Edited March 12, 2012 by Anrix

[Nicain]

You got that backwards. PvPers don't care about gear. The people that take gear so seriously are PvE-minded players that fancy themselves awesome PvPers when they gib some poor 12k hp sorcerer.

 

You have it backwards, and twisted. Both sides care about gear, for the same reason. The people who don't have the TIME to get the gear, cry about it on both sides. The people that don't have the time, feel they have a right to have things welfared to them because they pay too.

 

As an analogy, if you're a boxer you build yourself skill (technical practice, i.e. 'engaging in pvp') and you build your strength (i.e. you weight train, or 'get gear to improve stats') so we see the example, your type of people basically state, since you only have time to do technical skill, everyone else shouldn't be allowed to build both.

 

When you have TWO evenly skilled players, the strength, or gear is the tie breaker. Its how it is in life, and in games. The thing is you want to remove the second part of that because it requires YOU to put in extra time.

 

You don't want to fine, maybe other players will do extra ilum runs, and more WZ's to climb that ladder and have our gear create tiers.

 

Other than the fact that people are butthurt because they get owned in PVP, there's no reason to make a RP MMO's pvp turn into call of duty.

 

I'm sorry you don't have time for PVP and PVE, neither do I, so I run PVP almost exclusively. Does that mean I should get a welfare T3 PVE set?

 

No, nor should you get a free tier of PVP armor. It's really simple.

[Wraithwarr]

You got that backwards. PvPers don't care about gear. The people that take gear so seriously are PvE-minded players that fancy themselves awesome PvPers when they gib some poor 12k hp sorcerer.

 

These games are all about gear. If I wanted a completely level playing field where gear didn't matter I would go play Counter-Strike.

[Nicain]

And we'll wave goodbye to them.

 

I really don't care if they leave or stay. PvP gear has to be available to everyone.

 

Saying the subscriber base will fall is silly speculation at best.

 

There can be a progression but it can't lock people out with rank barriers, etc.

 

PVP gear is available to everyone tard, you just have to WORK for it, like you worked for your PVE gear?

 

I feel locked out of the PVE gear, should I get a free set? NO I don't think so, so what makes you so special that you should get a free set of gear?

 

PVP is an optional aspect, you get that right? You don't have to pvp, you don't like it stay a bluebie you bluebie.

 

I know when you grew up your mommy told you how special you are and how you can have anything you want, in the real world is doesn't work like that, you need to work for stuff, and the best games that lasted the longest have challenging PVP and PVE.

 

You can go back to QQing about how it's not fair, I still have another couple hours at work and could use the distraction while my code compiles.

[Wraithwarr]

Yep. People that actively seek an advantage that is only gained by time played aren't looking for competition. And I play an awful lot. I just don't think that I need stats to show from it. Cosmetic stuff? Absolutely. BIS gear? Why would I want a situation where winning is that much easier?

 

 

Welcome to MMOs? I will say it again, if you are looking for a game type where time played does not give an advantage, there are plenty of fps' out there for you.

Edited March 12, 2012 by Wraithwarr

[Anrix]

If it comes down to losing subscription or handing out gear, I'd rather BioWare choose the latter. They have their hands on information we do not, and they know the fallout of upsetting one group over the other. So there is a serious issue going on aside from belly aching that involves the health of the game. Edited March 12, 2012 by Anrix

[AstralProjection]

The idea (though none of us have more than extrapolations from the usual vague quotes) seems to be that higher tier gear won't require a valor rank, and not include massive stat improvements.

 

The idea is not to give out "welfare epics", because the whole term is ridiculous, this isn't an economy it's itemization for a game.

 

In order to even the playing field for ranked warzones, the higher tier gear will have different appearance rather than higher stats to try to remove the barrier of entry for new players and casual players, primarily.

 

Ranked warzones can be queued for by solo players or groups, and I believe (?) have separate queues, though I couldn't give you a quote to support that right this second.

 

Warzone commendations from ranked Warzones would be used to buy the new gear.

 

The "reward" for PVPing will be your ranking, cosmetic appear, and various goodies that many folks don't care about, like mounts.

 

That's mainly where all the outcry is coming from.

 

Many people are saying they won't PVP without their character becoming more powerful, while others are saying you shouldn't PVP for any reason other than fun. If it's a "grind" don't do it, etc.

 

That's it in a nutshell!

[AAmedeo]

Yep. People that actively seek an advantage that is only gained by time played aren't looking for competition. And I play an awful lot. I just don't think that I need stats to show from it. Cosmetic stuff? Absolutely. BIS gear? Why would I want a situation where winning is that much easier?

 

Hell, I'd not care if they made all stats on gear worthless in PvP. But I do want PvP rewards to be usable in PvE. I know a lot of you will frown on that.

 

Let me explain. First off, I PvP much more than I run groups in PvE endgame. I want to have competition in PvP but not in PvE. I want to dominate there. Why do I want some bot program to ever beat me?

 

Of course, thats not going to happen. There are going to be tough bosses, and I want to be as geared as possible for those bosses. I have 4/5 Champ gear and a 2/5 Tionesse. Without those Champ pieces, I'd be a PvE Chump.

Edited March 12, 2012 by AAmedeo

[Arox]

LOL WHAT?

 

War Hero gear is available to fresh 50's?

 

making the rank 70 title of War Hero totally pointless... ?

 

 

lol.. gg bw

[Dego_Locc]

LOL WHAT?

 

War Hero gear is available to fresh 50's?

 

making the rank 70 title of War Hero totally pointless... ?

 

 

lol.. gg bw

Lol pretty much.