Lorgrin Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 If you're hitting the 10 min rez timer, you're probably in an area too high for your level. You get the 10 min delay after you die four times - I think that's Bioware's way of telling you that what you are attempting is too difficult for you. Either that or the group you are in has no idea what they are doing. I played last night with a pug. One was a sith assassin who refused to use his lightsaber. I was like "dude you are a mele class, Im just trying to help you". He finally admitted that he was really young and didnt know what he was doing. So I kinda broke up the group and pulled him aside. Helped him setup his keybindings, and gave him a quick tutorial on how to play as an assassin. I saw him later in the evening and he looked like he was doing a good job soloing. We were all at or above level for that Heroic, but unless you know your class, it will only hurt everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincynt Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Considering there were MMO's that had the death penalty of a loss of experience in addition to the corpse run, and back in the day you could actually lose a level if you died enough, I don't think 10 minutes is too rough. What that 10 minute timer is telling you is that the area you're in is too rough for your level / ability... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtybomb Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Even so - thats often quite a run, or ride away - particularly if youre 3/4 of the way through a Heroic -4 zone. So again, Ill ask - what is the reason for such a lengthy downtime? I cant think of a gameplay based reason for one - can you? Ive played a lot of MMOs and Ive never seen that kind of design choice before. Did I miss something? The point is (1) a penalty for dying and (2) to prevent people from rez-jumping thru a particular area. You die, you rez, take your 8 seconds of invulnerability and walk a little farther, die again, etc. If you are dying that often in a particular area, you need to rethink your strat for dealing with the mobs that are killing you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthAnaethil Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 simply put, stop dying so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorgrin Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 (edited) If you're hitting the 10 min rez timer, you're probably in an area too high for your level. You get the 10 min delay after you die four times - I think that's Bioware's way of telling you that what you are attempting is too difficult for you. Either that or the group you are in has no idea what they are doing. I played last night with a pug. One was a sith assassin who refused to use his lightsaber. I was like "dude you are a mele class, Im just trying to help you". He finally admitted that he was really young and didnt know what he was doing. So I kinda broke up the group and pulled him aside. Helped him setup his keybindings, and gave him a quick tutorial on how to play as an assassin. I saw him later in the evening and he looked like he was doing a good job soloing. We were all at or above level for that Heroic, but unless you know your class, it will only hurt everyone. EDIT...sorry for double post. Not sure what happened here. Edited March 12, 2012 by Lorgrin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawgtide Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 (edited) Even so - thats often quite a run, or ride away - particularly if youre 3/4 of the way through a Heroic -4 zone. So again, Ill ask - what is the reason for such a lengthy downtime? I cant think of a gameplay based reason for one - can you? Ive played a lot of MMOs and Ive never seen that kind of design choice before. Did I miss something? In 1999, when EQ first started some raid wipes in the Plane of Fear took hours to save the bodies. Not 10 minutes but hours. I am not kidding. People were actually worried that they may lose their gear forever. Through the years, they have added corpse summoners and things like that though. Edited March 12, 2012 by Dawgtide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawgtide Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Im not with the OP, this games death penalty is weak compared to many MMOs out there. You get 3 shots at an area with a semi-decent rez timer. After the 4th you should probably re-evaluate what you are doing or if you should even be in this area. Lol sometimes I really count it as 2 chances. I like to ride my scooter into packed areas to get closer to the target. So chances are I get major agro in some areas and take the first death to get closer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raora Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 people waited 10min on shuttle in SWG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawgtide Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Ahh I wish they brought back EQ's death system...let these entitlement generation kids **** around with corpse runs for awhile. Yeah I justy talked about that. Didn't even mention hell levels like 31, 41, etc. Lol these new games are nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vankris Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Hello all - im a relatively new player here so forgive me if this seems a bit off but I am absolutely boggled by the fact that if I die a few times in a given area - I am then presented with a choice of running all the way back from a bind point, or lying on the floor for TEN minutes. In what universe does this equate to fun? the 30 second for the first then two min for the second, ok - i get that - but to have my first full Heroic-4 group have to sit there and wait for ten minutes after a wipe was certainly a disappointment... in some MMO, you could lose level when you die just rez a the med center, there are plenty on the map, you'll end up close enough. in an H4, you could get rez by a party member, everyone has a rez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HectorCasan Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Even so - thats often quite a run, or ride away - particularly if youre 3/4 of the way through a Heroic -4 zone. So again, Ill ask - what is the reason for such a lengthy downtime? I cant think of a gameplay based reason for one - can you? Ive played a lot of MMOs and Ive never seen that kind of design choice before. Did I miss something? its to prevent exploits Its fine the way it is, believe me, give the system a bigger though and you will see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehneu Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 in some MMO, you could lose level when you die just rez a the med center, there are plenty on the map, you'll end up close enough. in an H4, you could get rez by a party member, everyone has a rez. Oh...I wonder which one that would have been. Almost actually would welcome something like that again. Also, if a HM, wait for the healer to rez you as they have no cool down on theirs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sotaudi Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 and pushing the amount of time from 30 secs to 10 mins is the arbitrary punishment. why do respawn times exist in games? They started in competitive games because you had to pace the time it took for players to respawn. In SWTOR, the time is completely arbitrary. There is absolutely nothing arbitrary about the timer, and the timer certainly has nothing to with respawns in competitive games. Death is supposed to be something you avoid. Games, traditionally, have forced players to respawn at rez points. Most of them even forced you to run back to where you died to get your equipment back or to avoid extreme death penalties (e.g., 10 minutes or more of, sometimes stacking, debuffs). It is only recently that games even allow self-rezing in place, and this game is far more generous even with that. For instance, LotRO for the longest time only allowed you to get a player rez or respawn back at a rez point. Eventually, they added a self-rez, but it was on a one hour cooldown. So if you died and self-rezzed, then died shortly after that again, you would have to wait an hour before you could rez in place again. Makes the 10 minute "arbitrary punishment" argument sound kind of silly and whiney, doesn't it? The bottom line is that this game is extrodinarily generous in its death penalties and to suggest that the 10 minute timer is some kind of abitrary punishment is nonsense. Every player in this game can rez another player. That is fairly unique to this game. Even without that, every player in this game can self-rez, not just once with a long cooldown, but multiple times, and any increasing respawn penalty can be reset with a simple return to the rez point. Heck, you can even rez in the middle of the mobs that killed you because you are invisible for eight seconds and can move out of the way. There is nothing wrong with the system as it is except that, maybe, it is too generous. It encourages people to do stupid things with very little concern for consequences. As others have said, if you are encountering the 10 minute revive timer, you are doing something wrong, and a simple return to the rez point will easily fix that. If you don't want to have to do that, then the solution is simple, stop dying! After all, death is something you should be avoiding. The continuing trend to remove all consequences from death makes people forget that and turns games into a zerg-fest requiring no talent other than a willingness to die repeatedly to get what you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noxinfernus Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Would you prefer to lose XP per death instead of having the time penalty in place? I'll tell you, nothing soured my cakes more in other games than playing for X amount of time, then get killed watch my hard earned XP disappear into the ether. I'll take the time penalty thank you. If it gets to be too much, I'll swallow my pride and transport back t a med centre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghettogenius Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Time. Credits. Experience. If you die it is going to cost you something. Players get off easy in this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meanerr Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Why do people QQ so much in MMOs? I wish we had a forum where mods can just dump all the QQs in one place so we can actually read useful information instead of all the QQ clutter. Way back when (before MMOs) you would have to run back to your body naked to loot your own stuff back. Obviously, you'd have to survive all the mobs in between and from other people looting your corpse. And, if you couldn't/didn't loot your own stuff back you'd have zero gear and zero creds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iboga Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Not trying to sound harsh, but thems the breaks. Don't die too much and you won't be punished for it. At least you aren't playing EQ where you could lose a level, lose your gear if you can't get back to your body, etc... death has such meaningless penalties in MMO's anymore... I don't feel you should be hammered for it, but it should be something to make you be more careful/not group with "that guy" anymore... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VulcanLogic Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I programmed variously death and respawn systems for Neverwinter Nights. You know which one everyone hated more than any other? The default (for end-user modules), which was instant, no-penalty respawn. It makes the game very, very boring, which is why most people went looking to download something else (and as an aside, even Bioware didn't use that in the official campaign modules). I think the death and respawn system for TOR is very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthBloodloss Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Ive played a lot of MMOs and Ive never seen that kind of design choice before. Did I miss something? You have played alot of MMOs before and never seen this? You are saying most MMOs let you self rez on the spot with no waiting? What kind of lame MMO would do that Its bad enough we can self rez at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paxmendacium Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Even so - thats often quite a run, or ride away - particularly if youre 3/4 of the way through a Heroic -4 zone. So again, Ill ask - what is the reason for such a lengthy downtime? I cant think of a gameplay based reason for one - can you? Ive played a lot of MMOs and Ive never seen that kind of design choice before. Did I miss something? You had to die like 3-4 times....maybe you SHOULD take a break and run all the way back... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paxmendacium Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 You have played alot of MMOs before and never seen this? You are saying most MMOs let you self rez on the spot with no waiting? What kind of lame MMO would do that Its bad enough we can self rez at all yeah in WoW you ALWAYS have to run all the way back haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewatcheruatu Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 The answer to the OP's question has been provided multiple times, but I'll just reiterate it for emphasis. It's to prevent players from brute forcing their way through content they're not meant to be able to complete. It makes perfect sense, and it's only arbitrary in the sense of why ten minutes and not 9 minutes and 45 seconds? But who cares? The point remains. Can't believe anybody is really complaining about this, since it's pretty forgiving, and believe it or not, sometimes even waiting 90 seconds was all the time I needed to think to myself, "Maybe I should come back later." I think it's actually a good thing BioWare are willing to force you to evaluate your goals when you're being thickheaded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadOrb Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I think its not a bad system , I do believe though that sometimes enemies can glitch and thats when the repair bill after dying can get a little expensive , 25,000 credits it cost me during one class mission , it was very buggy though. In phantasy star online when you died you dropped the weapon you were using on the floor and all your money , now that was really bad , really , sigh. They changed it pretty quckly though , well a few months later. Badorb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kourage Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 If you die, you should lose a level and start back at Fleet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirdthestrill Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Why can't your teammates just revive you? All healers get a 100% cooldown lower on revive when they choose their AC, and there has to be at least one Scoundrel, Sorc, or Merc in your group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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