Shouldn't tanks hit for nothing?

[Maldy]

Not to get all into the trinity again, But if you're able to mitigate a ton of dmg, shouldn't you be gimped in other areas?

 

Am I missing something? Isn't it common knowledge that Tanks shouldn't be hitting people for >1000+?

 

I thought that tanks would only be doing weapon dmg, why am I seeing Tanks sans healers taking on and killing 2-3 peeps at a time? Doing +25k dmg in 10-15 secs, Criting in the +3000 range, and mitigating ~20k in dmg?

 

I know this isn't a 1v1 balanced game....but shouldn't 2v1 balance something? I can't help but believe something is completely broken in this game.

 

Ur not the only one who thinks that.. i think 80% of posted here are playing 1.

[Xenon-se]

So as a Sniper/GS, who should I refrain from attacking? Who mitigates my main attacks? All Tanky classes or just a couple?

You should avoid hitting juggernauts, powertechs and assassins that are in their tank stance and use a personal shield generator because as a sniper/gs all your attacks can be blocked.

 

because all your damage is energy based you should also focus on light or medium armor targets before picking on heavy armor targets. but sniper/gs is one of the few classes that have a very long range interrupt (useful against caster) and very long range root (useful against ball carrier as he pass the owen or any melee really).

 

id say perfect targets include assassins not in dark charge, sorcs, marauders, other snipers (sniper is actually very good at taking out other snipers with!) and operatives.

 

Juggernauts not in tank stance, powertechs not in tank stance, mercs are not so good targets because of all their armor, but still viable.

 

Bad targets include assassins in tank stance, juggernauts in tank stance and powertech in tank stance.

[Ghamsar]

Bad targets include assassins in tank stance, juggernauts in tank stance and powertech in tank stance.

 

Ive been playing dumb, I thought the bubble was a shield that absorbed like 2-3k dmg...and I thought I could knock it out in an shot or two which would open him up for my teamates to take out.

 

So anything bubbled doesn't get hit from now on.

[Delavager]

You need to make it relative.

 

A Tank relative to their DPS counter part.

 

If a tank gains...20% more survivability than their DPS counterpart, then they lose about 20% dmg (very simplified).

 

Therefore they can still do damage, just not as much as their DPS counterpart.

[Faat]

Tank damage ROFL

 

I'm a shield specc Vanguard, with DPS gear, highest crit is just enough to get the 2.5k hit medal, and that's when I pop power adrenal and relic.

 

I did not specc any defensive perks, just using ion cells, guard and taunts.

 

It is a strong 1v1 setup, but as far as imbalancing the battlefield, I'd say I do a lot less burst and steady damage than when I specc Assault, but in an assault specc I'm not using Ion cells and guard, so I'm not really a tank.

 

If you're complaining about tanks having DPS trees and playstyle available to them, then, I agree the combination of getting some good CC and taunts + DPS makes them really powerful, but OP ? Hard to judge. Assault and Pyro Vanguard / Powertech do need some tweak though, if you're lucky you can chain instant 4k crits from 30m.

[muradi]

Pretty much in any game end game tanks become gods, don't you know this?

[WrathofTheJedi]

What the ^*%& is the op talking about, our shields don't work in pvp do some research before posting.

[Zekoisop]

Tanks do mitigate force dmg. Everyone mitigates force dmg who wears armor.

 

I think you're a bit confused. Force isn't a damage type , it is an 'attack type.'

 

4 types of attack , force-tech , and melee-ranged. Consider the first two 'magical' while the latter two are physical if you want something to compare it to.

 

4 types of damage are energy-kinetic , and elemental-internal.

 

 

Force and Tech attacks cannot be avoided meaning they cant be dodged , parried , or shielded.

 

Kinetic-Energy damage is mitigated by armor , Elemental-Internal is not.

 

In otherwords the best kind of attack in the game is a Force or Tech attack that deals elemental or internal damage.

[Zekoisop]

Tank damage ROFL

 

I'm a shield specc Vanguard, with DPS gear, highest crit is just enough to get the 2.5k hit medal, and that's when I pop power adrenal and relic.

 

I did not specc any defensive perks, just using ion cells, guard and taunts.

 

It is a strong 1v1 setup, but as far as imbalancing the battlefield, I'd say I do a lot less burst and steady damage than when I specc Assault, but in an assault specc I'm not using Ion cells and guard, so I'm not really a tank.

 

If you're complaining about tanks having DPS trees and playstyle available to them, then, I agree the combination of getting some good CC and taunts + DPS makes them really powerful, but OP ? Hard to judge. Assault and Pyro Vanguard / Powertech do need some tweak though, if you're lucky you can chain instant 4k crits from 30m.

 

Same thing I said except that I said it first and I said it better.

[VoidJustice]

Pretty much in any game end game tanks become gods, don't you know this?

 

I banked on this... now Im broke!

[Axethales]

Tanks mitigation only works against kinetic attacks.

 

We don't mitigate tech/force attacks OR internal damage types.

 

Therefore we only effectively mitigate other melee classes attacks.

 

Ranged tech/force (aka magic) attacks burn us down just as fast as cloth wearers.

 

So we get rolled by most classes in this game since most classes are anything but melee.

 

A true tank has like zero mitigation against ranged attacks which is why I no longer play my guardian.

 

I rolled a scoundrel for a few reasons:

 

Ranged attacks, mobility, escapability, republic has fail numbers of healers in WZ's.

[Xenon-se]

Ive been playing dumb, I thought the bubble was a shield that absorbed like 2-3k dmg...and I thought I could knock it out in an shot or two which would open him up for my teamates to take out.

 

So anything bubbled doesn't get hit from now on.

Most bubbles you see are from sorcs. They can be shot down.

[Noctournys]

Tanks mitigation only works against kinetic attacks.

 

We don't mitigate tech/force attacks OR internal damage types.

 

Therefore we only effectively mitigate other melee classes attacks.

 

Ranged tech/force (aka magic) attacks burn us down just as fast as cloth wearers.

 

So we get rolled by most classes in this game since most classes are anything but melee.

 

A true tank has like zero mitigation against ranged attacks which is why I no longer play my guardian.

 

I rolled a scoundrel for a few reasons:

 

Ranged attacks, mobility, escapability, republic has fail numbers of healers in WZ's.

 

...../facepalm

 

Tech/Force aren't damage types. They are attack types. You (clearly) have NO idea how attacks and mitigation work in this game.

[Xenon-se]

Tanks mitigation only works against kinetic attacks.

Armor work against kinetic damage and energy damage. Ranged attacks, melee attacks, tech attacks and force attacks all deal energy damage or kinetic damage. Some of them deal elemental damage or internal damage, they ignore armor. Armor work against most "magic" attacks.

 

shield block chance only work against melee attacks and ranged attacks. not tech or force attacks (magic).

 

We don't mitigate tech/force attacks OR internal damage types.

Sure we do. As long as the tech/force attack deal energy (lightning for example) or kinetic (pellets of rocks for example) damage.

 

Armor does not mitigate elemental damage (fire and acid) or internal damage (poison and bleeds)

 

 

Ranged tech/force (aka magic) attacks burn us down just as fast as cloth wearers.

most tech and force attacks deal energy or kinetic damage. Armor mitigate energy and kinetic damage.

 

Armor does not work against elemental damage (think fire) or internal damage (think poison dots or bleeds)

 

 

So we get rolled by most classes in this game since most classes are anything but melee.

both armor and shield block chance work against every attack that snipers have.... snipers are ranged.

[RoyFokker]

Tank specs should not be able to dish out large amounts of damage. You shouldn't get both worlds. As a tank spec they should get the ability to absorb punishment and protect others from it. You shouldn't have the ability to dish it out and soak it up at the same time, it's imbalanced. There also should be no such thing as a light armor tank.

[Ghamsar]

 

both armor and shield block chance work against every attack that snipers have.... snipers are ranged.

 

which would make sense as the Sith Assassin each time ignored me completely til the end, and didn't worry at all about LOS

[Polebreaker]

If tanks in tank spec had even close to the survivability of some other "dps" classes in pvp, then there might be an issue. As it is, they dont. Anyone with a pocket healer and biochem can survive just as well, and provide better utility and dps.

 

So to op... no. You're just wrong on about every count as far as this game is concerned.

[Ghamsar]

If tanks in tank spec had even close to the survivability of some other "dps" classes in pvp, then there might be an issue. As it is, they dont. Anyone with a pocket healer and biochem can survive just as well, and provide better utility and dps.

 

So to op... no. You're just wrong on about every count as far as this game is concerned.

 

I think some people over use survivability, as it is subjective.

 

If you are only taking 6-700 dmg from something that hits others for 3-4k dmg, why do you not think that's enough?

 

Some classes play on the edges avoiding view....People who stand in the middle of everything and take dmg from 3-4 enemy while spamming abilities and then complain about survivability, to me, subjectively is much better survivability. It doesn't take more than 1 to take me out as a GS. 2 people with CC's, LOS, Dots, KBs...can out last my ST DPS.

[Ryotknife]

I think some people over use survivability, as it is subjective.

 

If you are only taking 6-700 dmg from something that hits others for 3-4k dmg, why do you not think that's enough?

 

Some classes play on the edges avoiding view....People who stand in the middle of everything and take dmg from 3-4 enemy while spamming abilities and then complain about survivability, to me, subjectively is much better survivability. It doesn't take more than 1 to take me out as a GS. 2 people with CC's, LOS, Dots, KBs...can out last my ST DPS.

 

except that is not how it works at all. not even remotely.

 

if 3-4 people are attacking me in my tank spec, i have 3-5 seconds to live (and 5 seconds is PUSHING it). if i want to live i need to jet charge out of there.

 

now, if i was in my tank spec, i had a guard and taunt from another tank, AND im getting healed, then yes i can last awhile. if we are talking about scenarios in huttball, this setup that i described is very common.

 

quite honestly though, putting gaurd and taunt on any class, even a sorc, will turn them into a boss. ive had sorcs survive 5 dps beating on him due to gaurd and taunt.

 

but tanks do not have very much survivability on their own, what they DO have over their dps trees is UTILITY. my tank/dps spec has 3 roots, a charge, a ranged interupt, and guard over my dps spec (granted a few of those are piggybacking onto each other rather than separate abilities. for example my charge is also a root and ranged interupt).

Edited March 12, 2012 by Ryotknife

[jayfourc]

Not to get all into the trinity again, But if you're able to mitigate a ton of dmg, shouldn't you be gimped in other areas?

 

Am I missing something? Isn't it common knowledge that Tanks shouldn't be hitting people for >1000+?

 

I thought that tanks would only be doing weapon dmg, why am I seeing Tanks sans healers taking on and killing 2-3 peeps at a time? Doing +25k dmg in 10-15 secs, Criting in the +3000 range, and mitigating ~20k in dmg?

 

I know this isn't a 1v1 balanced game....but shouldn't 2v1 balance something? I can't help but believe something is completely broken in this game.

 

The tanks that spec into their DPS trees are no longer tanky.

 

The example you gave for 1 tank taking on 2-3 people needs more info. It's likely the other 2-3 were undergeared/not very good.

[Kuzukaze]

There should be NO tanks pecs in PVP. Or atleast they should be useless.

Only thing that should stay in pvp on some ACs is guard.

Guard is the idea of Warhammer online. And there tanks were use DPS specs/utility specs, because tank trees had zero damage and most of things there was damage reduction for pve.

Most thing because warzones in warhammer wasnt about objective, to use smth 8 second and win. There u had to kill opponents, actualy PVP for win. But in swtor u need only two tanks that can press buttons, to defend side point on alderaan warzone, because they can do suicide rouds there.

 

TLDR: leave tank specs for PVE.

[Cstain]

Not to get all into the trinity again, But if you're able to mitigate a ton of dmg, shouldn't you be gimped in other areas?

 

Am I missing something? Isn't it common knowledge that Tanks shouldn't be hitting people for >1000+?

 

I thought that tanks would only be doing weapon dmg, why am I seeing Tanks sans healers taking on and killing 2-3 peeps at a time? Doing +25k dmg in 10-15 secs, Criting in the +3000 range, and mitigating ~20k in dmg?

 

I know this isn't a 1v1 balanced game....but shouldn't 2v1 balance something? I can't help but believe something is completely broken in this game.

 

 

The true tank spec does very little DMG, also the Tank spec atm mitigates very very little dmg so most Juggs roll a DPS spec. So I believe you might have some wrong info.

[Bbizzle]

You do know that without a healer "tanks" don't really mitigate much at all right? That's why most tanking specs for PvP only take the flat % damage reduction talents because the actual "tanking" stats are nigh worthless in PvP. You also are aware that they are wearing DPS gear the majority of the time because of said pointlessness to tanking stats, right? In essence they are playing lower DPS versions of the DPS specs with usually more utility abilities and throwing guard/taunts around.

 

*As far as mitigation goes: Read the stickies. It has been analyzed, proven and re-proven how the "tanking" stats do pretty much f**k all in PvP due to the sheer volume of classes and abilities that bypass them. Fight a tank wearing tank gear, then fight one who's actually geared for PvP (IE in dps gear) and you'll see the difference.*

 

Pretty much this. ^

 

I used to be shield spec, Then I got full BM DPS gear and went assualt and started having fun on the class while still guarding people in ion cell.

[Polebreaker]

If you are only taking 6-700 dmg from something that hits others for 3-4k dmg, why do you not think that's enough?

 

Because you are absolutely wrong and we simply dont mitigate that much in pvp, given that 80% of attacks bypass tank defenses completely. And those that dont, dont mitigate THAT much. So much bad information you have and are spreading, I'm really tempted to call you a troll, you'd have to have never played vs a tank in a wz to believe any of this.

 

Seriously, why dont you roll one and see just how much good that HEAVY ARMOUR does you in a wz.

[The_FeniX]

The tanks that spec into their DPS trees are no longer tanky.

"This pally with a 2-handed sword hit me for 30k. Tanks are overpowered."

 

It's funny though because I used to blast cloth wearers in the face for 40K+ auto-crit shield of the Righteous constantly as Prot spec. My highest ever was 52K against a Warlock IIRC. The thing was, to do that, you had be be stacking like 8K vengeance with wings up, and your proc trinket as well as your on-use both "up." This means attacking a tank during a melee was generally a bad idea. Tankadins could not only laugh off melee, but their CDs and interrupts could keep casters from doing much of anything.

 

Tanks don't work like that in SWTOR. In fact, if you're fighting a guarding/taunting tank, you need to be focusing him first. At the end of the day, the tank mitigation stats aren't all that great. Most Guardian "tanks" in PvP are using DPS gear and probably using a Vig/Def hybrid. All their mitigation is coming from Unremitting, protector, Commanding Awe, and their 3 min CDs.

 

So, yea: when specced/geared right, we're hitting fairly hard for a "tank." But I find myself needing to bug out constantly after popping an AOE taunt. I can't always be at the center of the action laughing off multiple DPS.

 

The problem is if they made our tank stats work better against more melee and some ranged DPS, we would be damned close to immortal. Just looking at my Vanguard, nearly every attack is Tech (I think stockstrike is as well, which is really dumb if true), which I can't avoid or shield (as far as I know from reading the tanking posts on it). Sure, it's mitigatable through armor, but all guards have heavy armor and Soresu. And that's another melee class.

 

So gimp my damage output, but make your mainstay attacks (the big damage or spam-use) abilities run into my 25% avoidance, 40% shield, and 35% absorb. I wouldn't even need expertise with my Rakata/Columi tanking set. And then we'll be right back here saying "Tanks with Heals can't die" and you'd be right.